Ireland vs New Zealand 2nd Test: Team announcements and matchday thread.

by **Biltong** Mon 11 Jun 2012, 16:01

First topic message reminder :

Sorry boys new thread other one is full.

Venue for the 2nd test: AMI Stadium (Addington) - formerly Rugby League Park Christchurch
Capacity: 26,000 incl. temporary seating
Weather http://www.bbc.co.uk/weather/2192362 (current forecast for Saturday evening is around 3 degrees C and light rain. But last week's snow has melted at least)

courtesy of Taylorman:

NZ team named- only one change- Thompson for Vito (injured) with Sam Cane on the bench...

http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/all-blacks/7098902/Thomson-in-for-Vito-Cane-on-All-Blacks-bench

All Blacks: Israel Dagg, Zac Guildford, Conrad Smith, Sonny Bill Williams, Julian Savea, Dan Carter, Aaron Smith, Kieran Read, Richie McCaw (c), Adam Thomson, Sam Whitelock, Brodie Retallick, Owen Franks, Andrew Hore, Tony Woodcock.

Reserves: Hika Elliot, Ben Franks, Sam Cane, Ali Williams, Piri Weepu, Aaron Cruden, Ben Smith

Irish team:
15 - Rob Kearney (UCD/Leinster)
14 - Fergus McFadden (Old Belvedere/Leinster)
13 - Brian O'Driscoll (UCD/Leinster) (capt)
12 - Gordon D'Arcy (Lansdowne/Leinster)
11 - Andrew Trimble (Ballymena/Ulster)
10 - Jonathan Sexton (St. Mary's College/Leinster)
9 - Conor Murray (Garryowen/Munster)
1 - Cian Healy (Clontarf/Leinster
2 - Rory Best (Banbridge/Ulster)
3 - Mike Ross (Clontarf/Leinster)
4 - Dan Tuohy (Ballymena/Ulster)
5 - Donnacha Ryan (Shannon/Munster)
6 - Kevin McLaughlin (St. Mary's College/Leinster)
7 - Sean O'Brien (Clontarf/Leinster)
8 - Jamie Heaslip (Naas/Leinster)

Replacements:

16 - Sean Cronin (St. Mary's College/Leinster)
17 - Declan Fitzpatrick (Dungannon/Ulster)
18 - Donncha O'Callaghan (Cork Constitution/Munster)
19 - Peter O'Mahony (Cork Constitution/Munster)
20 - Eoin Reddan (Lansdowne/Leinster)
21 - Ronan O'Gara (Cork Constitution/Munster)
22 - Simon Zebo (Cork Constitution/Munster)

Tour Previews
http://www.v2journal.com/new-zealands-june-tests-preview.html
http://www.v2journal.com/irelands-summer-tour.html

by disneychilly Fri 15 Jun 2012, 11:56

Considering I'm from Wellington I should be kicking up a fuss about Weepu Kia but I totally agree with you.

Williams too. Dead weight to me. Romano would do a better job!

by kiakahaaotearoa Fri 15 Jun 2012, 12:00

Fair enough Rory. Could you please tell me the team you'd like to see out there on Saturday if you had the opportunity to select the side? Does it differ much from the side Kidney is putting out? I got the impression before the first match that everyone seemed very happy with the side: positive and a good mixture of youth and experience.

You're borderline disney as you're not from the Mainland (there is a reason why it's called the Main Land. All the rest is superfluous) but seeing as you supply Smith and Savea and hopefully soon TJ then I'm willing to make exceptions. Hug

by Rory_Gallagher Fri 15 Jun 2012, 12:07

I was actually very impressed with the team Kidney selected for the first game. I had hoped he had changed his style as well, as he seemed to pick a very different team from what he would usually go for. The thing is, no matter who we play, things will be the same mate. We are too slow, too disorganised, and our best players can't make any difference because of this. I think if we had the entire NZ team available to us it wouldn't make a difference, because you wouldn't be seeing the magic they usually produce under Kidney.

If I was him for this game I would have been more consistent with what I said and the selections I made though. He keeps Murray and Tuohy to give them another shot, but drops O'Mahony and Zebo (Zebo especially is a bad call). He keeps McFadden as "left and right wing are two totally different positions" even though Trimble is better at 14, and McFadden is a centre anyway..

by **profitius** Fri 15 Jun 2012, 12:11

There was a lot of talk about NZ improving and Ireland better watch out but Ireland have a lot more they can improve on.

On a side note, this must be the first time in a long time when NZ have an all White pack!

by disneychilly Fri 15 Jun 2012, 12:14

Ha there's a reason why Wellington's the capital too. Though isn't it hilarious that it was moved from Auckland to be closer to the country's financial centre, which was the SI in 1865 due to the gold rush?

TJ can wait. Let Smith keep firing those bullets. It's just so exciting watching Carter have an extra second to play with. It also helps big time if our pack is going backwards-can get out of trouble a lot easier.

We had a couple players in the 90s which is pretty handy lol. Though the last NPC win was 2000-high time that got fixed. How many finals have we been in only to find you b@stards waiting for us?!

by kiakahaaotearoa Fri 15 Jun 2012, 13:27

Haha, I think there was the notorious fog final. I've seen more visibility in Macumba with the smoke machines on full bore. I must say I owned a Hurricanes shirt. My old man taught Dallas Seymour Forestry so gave it to him as a thank you and he gave it to me as he couldn't fit it! When they're on song they're a joy to watch but when they're bad they're real bad. Unfortunately the Crusaders in recent times like against the Rebels have had a tendency to come up with some anaemic performances.

So generally Rory, apart from a few calls like McFadden which does seem a little sketchy, you're happy with the team but just not the performance. But how much can you attribute to the coach and how much responsibility be given to the players? SA after all had P Divvy and they won 3 0 in NZ in 2009.

by **profitius** Fri 15 Jun 2012, 13:42

kiakahaaotearoa wrote:
So generally Rory, apart from a few calls like McFadden which does seem a little sketchy, you're happy with the team but just not the performance. But how much can you attribute to the coach and how much responsibility be given to the players? SA after all had P Divvy and they won 3 0 in NZ in 2009.

Ireland went unbeaten in 09. That was when kicking away possession was more effective than holding onto the ball. It benefited teams like SA and Ireland. It was a simple gameplan and suited Kidney.

After the ELVs came in is when things went downhill for Kidney. He doesn't believe in backline play. Munster were successful because of their pack and ROG kicking into the corners etc.

by disneychilly Fri 15 Jun 2012, 13:43

Being a Hurricanes supporter is the same as supporting the French I reckon. World beaters one minute idiots who don't deserve their paycheck the next. I expect you to put 50 on the Rebels next time out.

Was referring to the numerous NPC finals too.

Zebo hard done by. Kidney makes some odd calls but I'm wondering if changing the coach would make a difference.

by Rory_Gallagher Fri 15 Jun 2012, 13:52

It wouldn't immediately make a difference, and it would only make a difference if they were able to ignore the provincial war, pick the best players, and play to their strengths. That is going to take some time and effort, but Kidney has had 4 years to do it and he hasn't even started yet. The reason Schmidt has done wonders for Leinster, is because he has allowed Sexton to control the game himself. In other words, he is letting the team play to their strengths. He knows they operate best on quick ball, using their big carriers to hit the line at pace and create space out wide, with Sexton at the centre of it all.

There are players like Murray who just aren't playing well, but like I said you could pick anyone at 9 and it won't make a whole lot of difference. We can get quicker ball with a better 9 (even though Murray naturally has a lovely pass) but at the end of the day we still seem to want to play the game in the tight exchanges. Hookisms summed it up perfectly when he said Kidney has created a team that doesn't want to lose, rather than a team that wants a win.

by **rodders** Fri 15 Jun 2012, 13:53

kiakahaaotearoa wrote:
So generally Rory, apart from a few calls like McFadden which does seem a little sketchy, you're happy with the team but just not the performance. But how much can you attribute to the coach and how much responsibility be given to the players? SA after all had P Divvy and they won 3 0 in NZ in 2009.

Quite a bit Kia to be honest. I mean he point blank refuses to play the tried and tested partnership of Sexton and Reddan at halfback..even O'Gara and Murray. For some bizarre reason beknown only to him Kidney insists on playing a Munster/Leinster partnership at halfback despite the combinations clearly not gelling.

The coaches job is to get the best out of his players, to put the best team on the field, with a gameplan and Kidney and his team have totally failed to do this.

If it is indeed the players who are not delivering, or effecting the gameplan then it is Kidneys job to make changes....but he hasn't done that either.

Irelands problems aren't exclusively down to the coaches but they have played a big part in probably Ireland worst run of results in the professional era.

by Rory_Gallagher Fri 15 Jun 2012, 13:58

Also we seem to have an obsession with the outdated ruck and run process. Nowadays you see these dynamic forwards, from 1 through to 8, who will take the ball at pace from their 9 and make huge ground, or at least set a platform that allows quick ball. We have some of the best forwards to do that and they just aren't being used.

by **Biltong** Fri 15 Jun 2012, 20:40

I am very surprised McFadden is in the starting XV, hopefully Declan Kidney has worked on his positional play in defence, otherwise NZ will be targeting him again tomorrow.

by **rodders** Fri 15 Jun 2012, 20:42

biltongbek wrote:I am very surprised McFadden is in the starting XV, hopefully Declan Kidney has worked on his positional play in defence, otherwise NZ will be targeting him again tomorrow.

The best place to position McFadden in defence is on the bench..... Whistle

.....

by Rory_Gallagher Fri 15 Jun 2012, 20:55

I don't think any irish fans are surprised he is still starting. I bet the NZ guys burst into laughter when they saw that. It is pretty embarrassing.

by Zander Fri 15 Jun 2012, 20:58

Surely Zebo performed better last week than McFadden or is Kidney just biased towards him?

by **rodders** Fri 15 Jun 2012, 21:02

Kidney had the team picked before the tour... the performances are irrelevent. The man is an eejit.

by Taylorman Fri 15 Jun 2012, 21:56

Watching an interview with andy ellis and consensus is although its cold its calm and the wet stuff is likely to stay away tonight.
Christchurch is really hotting up for this one...first test in two years...pre earthquakes.
Stadium is small and should be similar to the club rugby atmosphere uk players are used to such is the closeness to the sideline.

Christchurchs passion and the saders influence here wont help the irish unfortunately as theres a tad more emotion behind this one for all concerned.

by The Great Aukster Fri 15 Jun 2012, 22:05

Taylorman wrote:Stadium is small and should be similar to the club rugby atmosphere uk players are used to such is the closeness to the sideline.

Patronising or what!

In case you didn't realise Taylorman most of Ireland isn't in the UK, and there are a few stadia bigger than your average NZ back yard.

by aucklandlaurie Fri 15 Jun 2012, 22:32

Watching that AB team last weekend I was thinking, thank god for foxy, it must be hard trying to reach a sensible outcome with a Cantabrian in charge.

kia forget Blackadder, the next man in there should be Sir J K, A knight beats a crusader always.

Disney, I think you are the first person to mention Carter's new kick offs on here, as our forwards are adjusting more to it, the opposition are having more trouble receiving.

by Rava Fri 15 Jun 2012, 22:35

aucklandlaurie wrote: Watching that AB team last weekend I was thinking, thank god for foxy, it must be hard trying to reach a sensible outcome with a Cantabrian in charge.

kia forget Blackadder, the next man in there should be Sir J K, A knight beats a crusader always.

Disney, I think you are the first person to mention Carter's new kick offs on here, as our forwards are adjusting more to it, the opposition are having more trouble receiving.

I'll send a quick text to Deccie just in case he hasn't picked that up!

by aucklandlaurie Fri 15 Jun 2012, 22:37

Aukster
Are you saying that the Irish club players play on Lansdowne road every weekend? I cant even think what Irelands next test venue is.

Taylorman, the atmosphere doesnt look all that close at that ground at Connacht.

by **rodders** Fri 15 Jun 2012, 22:44

The Great Aukster wrote:
Taylorman wrote:Stadium is small and should be similar to the club rugby atmosphere uk players are used to such is the closeness to the sideline.

Patronising or what!

In case you didn't realise Taylorman most of Ireland isn't in the UK, and there are a few stadia bigger than your average NZ back yard.

Ah come on Aukster Taylorman's a good egg...besides I think the kiwis have more than earned the right to patronise us..... until tomorrow that is! boxing

by Taylorman Fri 15 Jun 2012, 23:11

The Great Aukster wrote:
Taylorman wrote:Stadium is small and should be similar to the club rugby atmosphere uk players are used to such is the closeness to the sideline.

Patronising or what!

In case you didn't realise Taylorman most of Ireland isn't in the UK, and there are a few stadia bigger than your average NZ back yard.

Wasnt meaning to be patronising. It was actually a comment BOD made to our media thursday at Irelands training at the stadium when asked about it. Otherwise Id never thought about it. Im assuming some Irish players have played club matches in the UK?

by Otagolad Sat 16 Jun 2012, 00:16

The Great Aukster wrote:
Taylorman wrote:Stadium is small and should be similar to the club rugby atmosphere uk players are used to such is the closeness to the sideline.

Patronising or what!

In case you didn't realise Taylorman most of Ireland isn't in the UK, and there are a few stadia bigger than your average NZ back yard.

To be honest Auk, the capacity of RDS Arena is only 18,500, Thomond Park is only 26,500, Ravenhill is only 12,300 and Galway Sportsgrounds is only 9,500 so actually AMI Stadium which was put together in less than a year and holds 21,000 isn't too bad. So frankly, Taylorman is dead right even if he said the UK rather than a European club ground.

The one thing that won't be lacking will be Guinness - the pubs in Christchurch have ordered in twice as much as they have for St Paddys day.

Weather looks like it is clearing a bit here so hopefully the rain stays away and the AB's can demolish the Irish with excellent running rugby.

by **rodders** Sat 16 Jun 2012, 00:19

NZ regs

Best of luck tomorrow... big respect.. bring your A-game and hopefully we will too.... notworthy

by **rodders** Sat 16 Jun 2012, 00:20

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TehFZ38kt6o Leprechaun

by Otagolad Sat 16 Jun 2012, 00:24

rodders wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TehFZ38kt6o

Excellent song - one of my all time fav's.

Best of luck to the Irish guinness

, however I do really want the AB's to set out their stall, lay down a marker and draw a line in the sand and say to the rest of the world "We were the best team in the world for the last eight years and see, we have no intention of that changing for the next eight - what are you going to do about it!!!".

by **rodders** Sat 16 Jun 2012, 00:28

Otagolad wrote:
rodders wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TehFZ38kt6o

Excellent song - one of my all time fav's.

Best of luck to the Irish , however I do really want the AB's to set out their stall, lay down a marker and draw a line in the sand and say to the rest of the world "We were the best team in the world for the last eight years and see, we have no intention of that changing for the next eight - what are you going to do about it!!!".

...and what do you think I want us to do? Very Happy

... Have a good one mate!

by **rodders** Sat 16 Jun 2012, 00:36

p.s. that was a joke by the way (in case that wasn't obvious Very Happy

)...the ABs are the best, no doubt...but to be the best you have to beat the best..no excuses, no lying down, shoite or bust Leprechaun

.

Best of luck to both teams tomorrow guinness

by Rory_Gallagher Sat 16 Jun 2012, 00:41

Had a few

yourself tonight rodders? Wink

by Taylorman Sat 16 Jun 2012, 00:45

Whew the Kiwis are up, the Irish are pis#$$d for this one. Wouldnt have it any other way.

Good luck to all Gents...Rodders I hope youre taking a link into Billy who sure wont be able to watch in on the wards broadband?

thumbsup

by aucklandlaurie Sat 16 Jun 2012, 00:56

Kia/Disney
Apparently Perenara has broken his ankle and is out for the rest of the year.

by FerN Sat 16 Jun 2012, 07:40

In how many hours does this game start? Just woke up and to lazy to go to the TV room. Normally NZ games in the S15 start around now?

Edit: Supersport says in 20, so I will probably have to move now?

Why is it so quiet here then?

by aucklandlaurie Sat 16 Jun 2012, 07:42

Fern
In approx 48 minutes.

by FerN Sat 16 Jun 2012, 07:46

aucklandlaurie wrote:Fern
In approx 48 minutes.

Thanks, that means SS probably are going to do their whole analyzing and review of last game first. I will just take all the blankets with me and sleep infront of the tv till the game starts.

by SecretFly Sat 16 Jun 2012, 07:47

I think the Irish truly are a masochistic people. Their football team impacts with Hell in the face of the World Champions Spain and are destroyed at a canter 4 - nil. But the Irish fans sing the loudest they've probably ever sung running into the conclusion. Low Lay those fields of Athenry - waterlogged at this stage with no crops sprouting above the stagnant waters but we Irish still looked like we had won if you didn't know the result.

And now again, here I am up when I should be asleep (and need it!) ready to see my other Ireland (and my main one!) do a Déjà vu on the other side of the planet. They prepare to meet the World Champions and will probably be slaughtered one more time and I'll cringe and whine through it.

Do we Irish lose on purpose??? That's my new theory. We seem to like the spank on the bottom emotions - purifies the soul!!! Wink

by FerN Sat 16 Jun 2012, 07:58

Don't go lying down before the game. Although, you are probably right.

by Gibson Sat 16 Jun 2012, 07:59

Still Fly, think of it this way man... It could be wurst. We could be dull, dour, boring, souless, sheep-shagging, bungee-jumping, ugly, girlie-haka-dancing, Keewee rugby spelers...
Silver linings an all that craic.

Good mornning Christchurch! kiss

Amsterdam Paddies say HELLO!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L8UoUXmKH_A

Mon Leinster!
Believe.

Now, thats condescending Auskeeter.

by The Great Aukster Sat 16 Jun 2012, 08:04

Otagolad wrote:
The Great Aukster wrote:
Taylorman wrote:Stadium is small and should be similar to the club rugby atmosphere uk players are used to such is the closeness to the sideline.

Patronising or what!

In case you didn't realise Taylorman most of Ireland isn't in the UK, and there are a few stadia bigger than your average NZ back yard.

To be honest Auk, the capacity of RDS Arena is only 18,500, Thomond Park is only 26,500, Ravenhill is only 12,300 and Galway Sportsgrounds is only 9,500 so actually AMI Stadium which was put together in less than a year and holds 21,000 isn't too bad. So frankly, Taylorman is dead right even if he said the UK rather than a European club ground.

TM's implication is that Ireland will be more at home in a small ground i.e. condescending. Given his subsequent post, maybe he didn't mean to be, so I'll give him the benefit of the doubt. Rugby is a minority sport in Ireland so yes the club grounds are small, but the National team very rarely plays in them, in fact they have played far more at the 82k capacity Croke Park in recent years with the touchlines about 10m in from the stands.

by SecretFly Sat 16 Jun 2012, 08:15

Kidney saying "We kicked away" and for once using the tone to suggest that it might have been a bad idea.

Now there's progress!

by Gibson Sat 16 Jun 2012, 08:20

SecretFly wrote:Kidney saying "We kicked away" and for once using the tone to suggest that it might have been a bad idea.

Now there's progress!

= We are phhooked basically. Ah sure we'll copy the soccerball crowd. After a hammering, we'll sing like mad eeejjits at the end of it.

by pete (buachaill on eirne) Sat 16 Jun 2012, 08:21

Come on Ireland

BELIEVE

guinness

by GunsGerms Sat 16 Jun 2012, 08:22

Hansen looks really excited

by Cari Sat 16 Jun 2012, 08:23

Morning everyone!

Mon Ireland!!!! Leprechaun

by Cari Sat 16 Jun 2012, 08:26

Quinny is commentating again! heart

Gawd that Irish music is embarrassing though isn't it?

by SecretFly Sat 16 Jun 2012, 08:26

leinsterbaby wrote:Hansen looks really excited

Well, it's tough to sound like you think you might have a game on your hands when in reality, behind the public utterances, he doesn't rate Ireland high enough to even pretend well enough..