Federer v Nadal Or Nadal v Djokovic?

Which match up do you prefer to watch? Which rivalry do you find more interesting? Or can't you choose?

This poll is now closed. (10.20pm on 12/6/12) You may still vote but it will not be counted.

I declare that on 606v2 Nadal v Federer is the favourite match up (compared with Nadal v Djokovic). It won with an overwhelming majority of 9 votes to 1.

Any match Roger loses in and whines to media in the post match press confrence.

Or cries like a hysterical prom queen

socal1976. I know yesterday was tough for you but don't take it out on Federer... he wasn't even playing. Remember Djokovic beat him in the semi's... Please don't spoil my poll!

I get nowhere by being nice hawkeye why should I just take the abuse, that isn't my nature

socal - I've been away from the forum for a while and on popping back to it just today I was saddened to see you posting this brand of immature little quips that (quite apart from being somewhat child-like in their nature) seem to bear no relation to the actual thread itself ; which in this case was about match-ups and rivalries revolving around three of the game's greatest-ever players ; players that we can feel privileged to have around all at the same time.

In the past I remember you writing sensible contributions on the sport itself, and yet increasingly you have descended to cheap comments about peripheral nonsense.

A bit of fun here & there is good. BUT, in all honesty, I sometimes can't help wondering if you ever ask yourself before hitting 'submit' whether you're happy with what you've written, and whether it does justice to you as a more thoughtful and rational member ....???

Oh no Roger fans should have free reign in this website lags and say any garbage they want about other players and their fans. But god forbid you say that Roger's poopy stinks he is inviolate. Sorry, people who treat me with respect I give them respect. But if people want to lash out at me I am game but I hit back that is it simple enough. Read my posts congratulating Nadal and his fans and then call me ungracious. I congratulated the man, and unlike many loser fed fans didn't complain about slow conditions, the time between points. And I didn't accuse Rafa of being doper imagine that.

Socal, if hawkeye (or anyone) has lashed out at you, you can report the post. hawkeye is not a Fed fan, so I don't think his thread should be hijacked in this way.

I said the best matches among the three that I enjoy are any matches roger goes diva in the post match press conference because he thinks he should have won or cries like a prom queen. I am sticking to my answer Julius, or do you wish to delete all my posts that you don't like?

Well there you go again socal, labelling players/fans as 'losers' in the language of primary school kids, and then telling us in the same breath that you're really very gracious - because you have congratulated Nadal.

The fundamental point I was trying to make is that once you descend to the sort of cheap comment that you say you find so unattractive and disrespectful when made by others, then it's your own image & credibility that you put at risk.

This is all somewhat off topic and I do not wish to be admonished by either the Moderators or the OP, so I'd best leave it at that.

Lags is correct and this has gone off-topic, so apologies to HE.
Let's stick to the poll/thread from here.

Lags, I don't want to get into it with you frankly I get peed off by other people's comments and I lash out not directed at you. I just read a lot of garbage in the last 24 hours that is ridiculously irritating. Either way you have a right to your opinion and I am not in a very civil mood for that I apologize.

In regards to fair hawkeye's original post I prefer to watch Rafa v. Novak matches because they are at least competitive. I know fed has won a couple of 3 setters lately be the fed Nadal matchup is not close enough and competitive enough for my tastes. Plus the patterns of play are predictable. Nadal is going to serve to fed's backhand and going to go cross court with the forehand to Roger's backhand.

I prefer to watch Roger Vs Nadal more because to me it is a contest between nature vs nurture. Both play very different to each other and therefore it brings a lot of verity on court. Both have x factor and strong fan base. Somehow Djoko is missing that x factor. His shots are amazing but not artistic. He also brings nationalism in tennis which I really don't like.

HE

I prefer to watch Rafa play Roger. The matches against Nole land up being a slugfest and it is in these matches that I see Rafa playing less appealing more defensive tennis albeit effective.

Now (here is one for the Fed Fans) I think Roger brings out the best in Rafa
Rafa plays some great tennis against Roger and there is a different atmosphere on court. Rafa has respect for all his opponents but there is something rather special about his relationship with Roger. Not so much a battle of wills but more the outwitting of each other. The contrasting styles are never more obvious than when they play each other. Every time for me is liking watching them for the first time.Intriguing and exciting.

I'm with you on this Haddie-nuff.

I do, sort of, like watching Rafa vs Novak (assuming I have a good few hours to spare ...... ) but more often than not it's about waiting to see see who will crack first, rather than the 'purity' of the game.....

I prefer the Rafa / Roger match-up for the very reasons you give. And I'm pretty sure that Rafa has made the same point himself, in his book and in countless interviews.

There won't be many more opportunities I'd say .....

I actually think Djokovic vs Federer is also a great rivaly and worth throwing in the mix. I know that Nadal vs Djokovic is a far more frequent occurance but the fed vs djoko matches have been very entertaining over the years.

14 - 12 in Fed favour
5 - 5 in Grand slam meetings

Djokovic could well end up leading this rivalry when they finish

It is actually good to see socal have a bit of lash out. Getting the anger out is a good thing. Sometimes being the diplimat can just lead to further frustration and ridicule.

In fairness to the poll I prefer Djokovic v Federer matches. Purely because there is more incentivisation in the rallies and shot making and that Djokovic does not get drawn into the defensive style for a whole match.

Nadal and Federer matches lost some steam post 2008 when Nadal used the 2 most effective tools in his arsenal. Relentlessly attack the Fed BH and dominate the baseline rallies.

Nadal/Djokovic from 2010-2012 was entertaining and very much equal.

2012 it turned into who could lose the match the quickest. It has become an ugly affair.

Of the choice given, Fed vs. Nadal by far, I find Djoko vs. Nadal more attritional and I am more ambivalent about the result.

If Fed vs. Djoko was in the mix I think that is an excellent match-up because Djoko doesn't have quite the edge over Fed that Nadal does and he plays less attritionally vs. Fed. In the RG and USO SF's last year produced the two best matches of the year (and, yes Socal, Djoko deservedly got the last laugh! and continues to have it).

What about Murray V Nadal or Murray V Djokovic?

Murray vs Nadal is way too one sided............Nadal leads something like
13 - 5. He has Murrays number time and again and as a result I think it is too one sided to really be a rivalry. Didnt Nadal beat him all three grand slam semis last year, even at US open which would be Murray's favourite surface and Nadal's weakest.

There is no doubt Murray is a very good player and can compete very well with the top guys but i still see him being a level below the other 3.

barrystar wrote:Of the choice given, Fed vs. Nadal by far, I find Djoko vs. Nadal more attritional and I am more ambivalent about the result.

If Fed vs. Djoko was in the mix I think that is an excellent match-up because Djoko doesn't have quite the edge over Fed that Nadal does and he plays less attritionally vs. Fed. In the RG and USO SF's last year produced the two best matches of the year (and, yes Socal, Djoko deservedly got the last laugh! and continues to have it).

Cheers Barry from one of the world more reasonable fed fans. I am surprised that the OP didn't put Djoko v. Fed up there I like a little bad blood in the rivalry and find kissy face between top rivals a little off putting. Also their pattern of play is not as predictable. It is not just a battle of Nadal serving the fed backhand and directing traffic to Roger's backhand with heavy cross court forehands. There seems to be a more variety in their attacks against each other and the result is not quite as consistent as in Roger v. Rafa matches.

socal1976 wrote:Any match Roger loses in and whines to media in the post match press confrence.

Socal I had a great respect for you and thought you were one of those civilized posters, but look what you doing behaving the same way whom you think as nuts.

IC, unfortunately you get nowhere for being nice on this site. Certain posters feel they can come in and say anything they like about other players but a certain someone is inviolate. If I have to be annoyed by their posts they can be annoyed by mine.

Djoko vs Nadal might be competitive but very boring, Fed vs. Nadal might not be competitive but still very interesting, coz you never know when the element of surprise gonna come in.

Roger-Rafa rivalry use to be very interesting and competitive too till 2009 Madrid [barring 2008]

Djoko - Nadal is a like a wear and Tear matchup, its like somebody gets wornout before the opponent wins, in comparision Fed- Nadal is like a battle of Offense vs Defense.

hawkeye wrote:Which match up do you prefer to watch? Which rivalry do you find more interesting? Or can't you choose?

Well the Federer v Nadal "rivalry" was interesting while it lasted - probably up to Australian 2009. But nowadays and for the past two years there hasn't been a "rivalry", rather there has been a predictability (in slam tournaments). Some blame the conditions that allow the Nadal style of play to flourish across all the slam tournaments.

The Djokovic v Nadal rivalry is on-going. It is interesting in that it ismore difficult to predict than a Federer v Nadal match. However, their defensive styles leads to ultra-marathon length matches (a marathon lasts about two to two and a half hours).

This poll is now closed. (10.20pm on 12/6/12) You may still vote but it will not be counted.

I declare that on 606v2 Nadal v Federer is the favourite match up (compared with Nadal v Djokovic). It won with an overwhelming majority of 9 votes to 1.

socal1976 wrote:Oh no Roger fans should have free reign in this website lags and say any garbage they want about other players and their fans. But god forbid you say that Roger's poopy stinks he is inviolate. Sorry, people who treat me with respect I give them respect. But if people want to lash out at me I am game but I hit back that is it simple enough. Read my posts congratulating Nadal and his fans and then call me ungracious. I congratulated the man, and unlike many loser fed fans didn't complain about slow conditions, the time between points. And I didn't accuse Rafa of being doper imagine that.

Seriously, this obsession that you have is quite unhealthy, especially for someone who you have not personally. Have you considered professional help?

kemet wrote:

socal1976 wrote:Oh no Roger fans should have free reign in this website lags and say any garbage they want about other players and their fans. But god forbid you say that Roger's poopy stinks he is inviolate. Sorry, people who treat me with respect I give them respect. But if people want to lash out at me I am game but I hit back that is it simple enough. Read my posts congratulating Nadal and his fans and then call me ungracious. I congratulated the man, and unlike many loser fed fans didn't complain about slow conditions, the time between points. And I didn't accuse Rafa of being doper imagine that.

Seriously, this obsession that you have is quite unhealthy, especially for someone who you have not personally. Have you considered professional help?

Yes I should have my head examed for wasting my time with certain posters on this site. But I have decided from now on those I don't respect or find annoying I will just ignore. As I stated in my above post, those that treat me with respect get respect. Those that want to bash and demean other players and fans should not get their panties in a ruffle if fans of those players then decide to return the favor. If Fed fan doesn't like people pointing out the lengthy history of loser fed fans crying about time delays, coaching, Nadal's doping then maybe they should stand up to those excuse makers.

socal1976 wrote:

kemet wrote:

socal1976 wrote:Oh no Roger fans should have free reign in this website lags and say any garbage they want about other players and their fans. But god forbid you say that Roger's poopy stinks he is inviolate. Sorry, people who treat me with respect I give them respect. But if people want to lash out at me I am game but I hit back that is it simple enough. Read my posts congratulating Nadal and his fans and then call me ungracious. I congratulated the man, and unlike many loser fed fans didn't complain about slow conditions, the time between points. And I didn't accuse Rafa of being doper imagine that.

Seriously, this obsession that you have is quite unhealthy, especially for someone who you have not personally. Have you considered professional help?

Yes I should have my head examed for wasting my time with certain posters on this site. But I have decided from now on those I don't respect or find annoying I will just ignore. As I stated in my above post, those that treat me with respect get respect. Those that want to bash and demean other players and fans should not get their panties in a ruffle if fans of those players then decide to return the favor. If Fed fan doesn't like people pointing out the lengthy history of loser fed fans crying about time delays, coaching, Nadal's doping then maybe they should stand up to those excuse makers.

Fair enough, but you defeat the purpose by descending to the level of the very posters that you deride, especially when you make such disparaging remarks about a player, remarks which are very tangential. I am no hypocrite, so I will admit that I did get worked up about Roger's loss in the past few days. However, I realized that I have never met Roger personally, nor do I have anywhere near the level of wealth that he has. Thus, why should I get worked up about what internet posters (whom I have never met and whose tennis credentials I am not sure of) say?

I doubt Roger would care. If anything, he would probably scoff at it and not give it a second thought. So, why should I? I have better things to do with my time and I am sure that you do to.

See my logic? It is advice you would do well to follow.

Why are you choosing my poll to argue on! Cant you do it somewhere else...

hawkeye wrote:Why are you choosing my poll to argue on! Cant you do it somewhere else...

My apologies. I will.

Can I just point out before every thread turns into a socal bashing session.

Last year some Fed fans used Djokovic as a tool to beat Nadal fans with when Djokovic was dominating him. All good for the sport I read.

A year later some Fed fans have warmed to Nadal (the very player they bashed) for beating Djokovic because it gives some hope to Federer becoming no.1 again and potentially setting a new record.

A bit harsh and contradictory.

legendkillarV2 wrote:Can I just point out before every thread turns into a socal bashing session.

Last year some Fed fans used Djokovic as a tool to beat Nadal fans with when Djokovic was dominating him. All good for the sport I read.

A year later some Fed fans have warmed to Nadal (the very player they bashed) for beating Djokovic because it gives some hope to Federer becoming no.1 again and potentially setting a new record.

A bit harsh and contradictory.

Precisely, I mean LK I ask you to be my witness we have been on this site together since there were like 6 regular posters. But just say it like it is. How many times have people actually accused me of being a closet Nadal fan because of how much I have defended him. And now the very people who I have often argued with and defended Nadal against are the ones accusing me of demeaning Nadal's accomplishments. At the very least is not hypocritical of people who spent years making excuses for Fed losses and demeaning Rafa's accomplishments to now lecture me and tell me I shouldn't demean Nadal's accomplishments? Is that not hypocritical LK, i ask you to be honest arbiter and give a fair answer.

@kemet, fair enough kemet I don't disagree with the logic of your arguments. In fact, when i take a run at fed i am well aware that it alienates many good and reasonable fed fans. People like you, barry, emancipator, and lucius probably won't be happy when I get goaded and unleash my venom on Roger. And personally, I'm not on Djoko's payroll so it isn't like I get paid or have any big stake in it. But i don't like hypocrisy and double standards when I see bullying behavior and unfairness I want to strike back.

If anyone sees bullying behaviour, then report it. If you don't trust the mods, report it to the Admins.

socal1976 wrote:But i don't like hypocrisy and double standards when I see bullying behavior and unfairness I want to strike back.

An eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth results in (as JHM has said somewhere else) a lot of blind and toothless posters.

JuliusHMarx wrote:If anyone sees bullying behaviour, then report it. If you don't trust the mods, report it to the Admins.

JHM it is not anything that is rule violating behavior it is just annoying behavior and the only way to respond to it is either to duke it out with them or ignore it. It is not like I want to tell on anyone because I don't think any of the comments have been libellous or profane. What I do think is that certain posters want to downgrade other players that they don't like. When they do that it annoys the crap of said fans of player and they look to pick on other persons favorite player. it is Holly Wilaboobie for tat I admit but I am sorry if I think someone is argueing garbage and the things they are trying to sell is wrong and there is an agenda behind it I will say something. I can only turn the other cheek for a short while everyone has their limit.

socal,

I can't say for sure that I have seen the term 'closet' Nadal fan, but I think there needs to be an understanding of what has happened.

When the forum was in it's early days, you were the possibly the first 'Djokovic' fan prior to the success he had in 2011. Now I think for a long time over the past 8 years people have either been a Federer fan or a Nadal fan. Murray has lots of followers due to the 'nationalist' following and the majority of fans being British.

To the situation at hand. From my view in the rivalry that is Nadal v Federer, the success of Nadal in most of their encounters has been that Nadal has grinded down Federer than actually 'outplay' the man. Not beat him at his strengths given that is how many of Federer's followers have percieved that Nadal needs to do this to add any credit to his own legacy, though it works both ways. If Federer can't beat Nadal at his own strengths why should that be an exception to the rule?

When Djokovic was hammering Nadal last year, Fed fans loved it. Nadal looking lost out on court and not reverting to different tactics to address the problems he was having with Djokovic. Also because Djokovic was attacking and not just defending made it the more sweeter for Fed fans to see. Djokovic fans were in un-charted waters by where 2 became 3. Fed fans could identify some talent with Djokovic because of how he went for his, especially in the US Open against Federer. Defeats then were much easier for them to accept because Djokovic was in some ways beating Federer at his own game.

Because Federer then had a stunning end to the season gave renewed hope that Federer still had something left in his tank to still compete against the top 2.

Roll on 2012. I think because Djokovic has not played anywhere near the same level as 2011 has now created optimism for Fed fans because it is like watching another Nadal slug out results than going on to win with attacking play. Also because Federer is still winning titles makes Djokovic's failures the more sweeter because Federer has a chance at being no.1 in the world again even if it is short lived. People wanted Nadal to win because they didn't want to see another Federer/Nadal scenario where it becomes one-sided at the Slams. For me that's why I wanted a Nadal victory just to give the rivalry a bit of umph for what it deserves because of where they have played. All of the Slam finals. Masters Finals. It's needs balance in the outcomes and a Nadal victory at RG just might save the interest in the rivalry.

Coming to what has occured on the boards, socal I feel you have been far 'too' defensive and allowing any negativity that people may feel against Djokovic is 'unjustified' to also go against your nature and go on the attack because you feel you have to is not the answer.

Also let's be honest for a second to. Last year using Fognini as the excuse Federer topped Djokovic was shallow. It didn't really pay credit to the performance that Federer had put in that day. If it was painted that maybe Djokovic lost a bit of focus because his rythym was disrupted by now playing one less match, may have gone done a bit better, but because you put so much emphasis on Fognini it did really come across as 'excuse making'

Also there was the draw rigging. This subject was doomed to fail. Why? Because the players ranking and seeding was changing. For me there is no difference if Federer was ranked 1 and Djokovic 3 or vice versa. It still highlights the chance they will be in the same half. I am a Murray fan and all I had to contend with last year in all 4 slams was Nadal. I didn't cry wolf or fix. It was just that is how it was drawn. Murray then took it upon himself to try and improve his ranking so he would avoid Nadal at the Slams. There is not a lot you can do when being number 1 player in the world, unless of course fall down the rankings.

Take the new wave of Djokovic fans who use the same one liners and be-little the achievements of Nadal and that the purple patch Djokovic had last year is the same this year. Djokovic/Federer fans using Djokovic to be-little Nadal was and is childish. Also because these very fans do not come out give Nadal a little piece of credit creates further bad feeling on the board. If Murray became a Slam winner and was beating Djokovic, I would be highly annoyed if 'new' fans came out and started to put the boot in on Djokovic because Murray could beat him. I think because you didn't put a bit of distance between yourself being a true fan of Djokovic and the pathetic hangers on who use him to lay into Nadal more than support Djokovic annoyed posters on here who thought you were a poster with some credit.

For example I am amazed you have created an argument with lydian given that he is not an extremist and actually is fair play when paying respects to players who play well and beat Nadal.

I say be yourself socal. Your sensible enough not identify with the fans who 'use' Djokovic than actually follow him for his play and game. Don't launch into Federer because your not in agreement with some views that seem harsh on Djokovic. As long as you are praising and supporting the Djokovic cause, there is nothing wrong with that. Also learn that in defeat, as much as it can hurt, there is nothing wrong with being critical of Djokovic and even offering constructive criticism or advice on how he can improve to avoid poor performances occuring again. I am Murray fan and I feel spend more times during the year tearing my hair out and being impartial on his results than coming out and finding excuses for why his performances don't click.

Be fair and be yourself.

Yes I agree with you LKV2, people are unfairly criticising Socal IMHO. He got annoyed yesterday with some but that doesn't mean he was a sore loser like some try to make out.
I mean I was looking for the reaction to the win on many other tennis forums and this extract stood out to show what Socal could have said if he really wanted to be a sore loser.

IMBL

Those comments were from another site and really bare no merits being on here, but I understand the point your trying to make.

There were some posters here that used to get caught up in the extreme views on Nadal and his success who have for me become much better posters now that the core of the hatred has gone. For me in the debates of the late the conversations and discussions are more civilised and people are using sound logic and stats to back their claims.

I just really hope that socal does not follow the suit of many posters before by being outlandish and in extreme in trying to ignore performance levels of your favourite player.

When Federer was playing really well at the US Open last year, I could not recount the amount of Fed followers who were still optimistic about his chances at the tournament and frankily brutally honest about Federer's status in the current game. There wasn't one ounce of criticism about Nadal or Djokovic's conditioning, it was more Federer cannot outrun old father clock.

BB's article was not a bashing session of Djokovic. I think he was very reflective that with everything that was at stake, the history and everything that both players didn't really put in a performance that I would deem historic. I think he was surprised by the lack of mental courage Djokovic showed over the entire match. Even when he got back into the match he expressed little positive emotion and spent much of his time exhasuting negative energy, whereas Nadal was trying to extract as many positive body language as possible despite being angry at the conditions.

BB knows like many others that both Nadal and Djokovic could play much better than what they displayed in the final.

IMBL

Personally I think you have done more harm than good by posting that from another site.. it really isn´t warranted and 606v2 have been rid of extreme posters for a while now and all the better for it. Not everyone here has been harsh with socal.. speaking for myself I have tried to put myself in his position and I too would have been very defensive and disappointed had the boot been on the other foot
I dont think anyone here has crticised socal for defending his favourite player.
There has been differences of opìnion as to how Rafa won not that he did win.
Everyone had time to sleep on it.. and the subject itself should now be put to bed. What can possibly be achieved by stirring up the hornets nest yet again

I'm going to defend socal here. His immediate reaction after the game (check the final thread) was "congrats Nadal and fans. He played better, he deserved it." There was no excuse making, no "Djokovic didn't play his best" etc. just the congratulations. It was one of the classier things I've seen, and I applaud him for it

As for the OP question, as a neutral in this matter I'd say "neither". Nadal vs Federer is too predictable for me (esp. in slams, it's been a very long time since Fed beat Rafa in a slam) while Nadal vs Djokovic tends to be too much of a slugfest for my liking (I don't mean this in a bad way necessarily, it's like two gladiators going at it, and is great to watch for an hour or so, but I find it loses its appeal to me after that). I actually prefer the Federer vs Djokovic rivalry, which is a more interesting match-up for me.

I actually prefer the Federer vs Djokovic rivalry, which is a more interesting match-up for me.

MFC I am glad someone is on my bandwagon too.

Mad for Chelsea wrote:I'm going to defend socal here. His immediate reaction after the game (check the final thread) was "congrats Nadal and fans. He played better, he deserved it." There was no excuse making, no "Djokovic didn't play his best" etc. just the congratulations. It was one of the classier things I've seen, and I applaud him for it

Me too. I think you posted somewhere socal (this thread or another) that you might alienate some Federer fans (like myself) by attacking other Fed fans. Well I'm not offended and I'm not alienated. I understand you may be angry that other posters think that Djokovic only gained a set because of conditions. I happen to disagree, although I appreciate that it's nothing I particularly fuss about because I don't have much invested emotionally because I'm a big Djokovic fan like yourself. I think that that it was kind of unlucky for Djokovic, the sense from that match to me is that if that match had gone to 5 sets, it would have been Djokovic's. The key moment in many respects was on Sunday when Nadal held serve before they went off, not on Monday so much. Had Djokovic got the double break, the match would have gone to 5 sets. As NL pointed out, (as I'm happy to concede I was wrong), Nadal was clear favourite because in retrospect, a single break of serve is usually enough against most players but not against Nadal on clay. I also thought that conditions didn't massively favour one player over another. The double break is what Djokovic needed and he didn't get it. There's no doubt you were gracious subsequently with Nadal's win and I think the post match analysis is what riled you, not the fact Nadal won.

All I will say socal is don't let that detract you. I've noticed that you don't see eye to eye with BB so I guess it will have been immensely annoying when he started a thread which you thought didn't give an accurate reflection of the match. I wasn't in particular agreement with the conclusions or the thread either but I didn't really see the point in contributing because I'm not as fussed. Anyway socal, as far as posters go, you're mostly fair minded and a pleasant poster on the whole too. I don't think any less of you because you're angry or annoyed at some posts/comments, bound to happen to fans who care about their player/team!

Mad for Chelsea wrote:I'm going to defend socal here. His immediate reaction after the game (check the final thread) was "congrats Nadal and fans. He played better, he deserved it." There was no excuse making, no "Djokovic didn't play his best" etc. just the congratulations. It was one of the classier things I've seen, and I applaud him for it

Thanks MFC I appreciate your words of support. I really did start to get annoyed when BB and Lydian went on post after post talking about how lucky Novak got with the rain and how it should have been straight sets. That to me was insult to injury and I actually ignored the first few posts on the subject but they kept talking about how one sided the match was. Sorry, I didn't see that one sided of a match.

Wow, legend that was a great post and thank you for taking so much time to really think and give your views on the issue. With a lot of what you have said I agree with. I mean probably with about 90 percent of it. And I mean you didn't have to spend the time analyzing and giving me the advice. And both of us have been on this site for a while so we remember how it has changed.

Now not to harp on the negative but let me address two finer points. 1. I do believe there is draw tampering and have provided in my opinion a rational basis where it is not illogical to assume that some thing is going on. People can disagree and I don't want to get into the finer points but sorry Novak does get Roger in the semi pretty much every time and the numbers are starting to look a bit fishy in my opinion (not the opinion of the site).


In regards to me going on attack mode I don't think it is anything new I have gotten into it with people on the site before. But i always try to remain fair and respectful. The reason I got into with lydian, is frankly I was a bit surprised at his comments in the last couple of days. I never assumed he was a Djokovic fan but he seemed to see everything in a very negative light about Djokovic in contrast to his views on other players. And in particular it was like Lydian and others that will go unnamed wanted to really drive home the point that Novak got lucky to win a set. Lydian even went as far to say that Novak would never beat Nadal at RG unless he got rainy conditions. I mean the comments were strangely negative from Lydian and a bit biased and he doesn't ever post like that so that was part of my surprise.

But advice taken, maybe I need to calm down a bit and be less defensive. Still people do have their limits.

Somebody actually voted for the match between the two grinders?

In terms of entertainment value, (forgetting the fact that finals, etc, are intrinsically more entertaining because of what's at stake.) it would be hard to find a less entertaining match than Nadal vs Djokovic. Particularly with the amount of time these two spend doing stuff other than playing tennis, when they should be playing tennis.

To those that commented that they would have voted for Federer v Djokovic rather than the options given. I chose Federer v Nadal and Nadal v Djokovic because they have contested so many important finals.

So far Federer and Djokovic have played 26 times but only played 5 finals. Including only 1 slam final way back in 2007 and only 2 masters finals (the last way back in 2009).

Maybe that is because it is a statistical impossibility for Novak and Roger to play in the final if they are in the same half of every single grandslam for the most part with few exceptions. Rather skewed that Novak has 26 odd matches and 1 grandslam final with Roger. Of course Roger has been down off his best recently and Novak was down off his best when Roger was at his best. But definetly this number you produced Hawkeye again is in many ways as a result of the vast amount of times Novak and Roger get put in the same half. In fact, they might go for the record of most times two players have played in a grandslam semi. Now that is a piece of research someone should look into.