My take on today's game: NZ vs Ireland

First topic message reminder :

Firstly, before I give my take on the match, I take my hat off to Ireland. That was the best Irish performance I have seen against the ABs and to do it in the world champs' backyard after a 32 point schooling the previous week shows the Irish lads have a lot of heart but also a lot of mental strength. Because you can't push the ABs round like that and force them into mistakes for the whole match unless you believe you can win. And right up to that decisive penalty by Owens for screwing the scrum and with an extra man, I thought (my Irish friend who had kindly cooked me an Irish breakfast was remarkably composed but inside I could tell he thought this was really it) Ireland were going for a win.

So I look back on this match as if we lost but without all the emotion obviously that comes with losing. As I mentioned on another thread, Ireland were made to look worse than what they really were last week and NZ were probably made to look better. This week Ireland were much smarter in their tactics. It was very chilly out there and Christchurch on a clear, crisp night attracts a lot of dew on the ground. Ireland started the match strong and I think SBW was the first of many ABs to spill the ball in contact. It turned into a poor handling night from the ABs that partly came the conditions but had more to do with the Irish defence who were much more settled in the backs this week. Say what you like about D'Arcy on attack but he and BOD have an evident understanding on defence and the gaps that were there last week closed up and Guildford and Savea didn't get any space or time with the ball. The fact that neither did Trimble nor McFadden was irrelevant. Ireland had the right tactics tonight. Instead of kick the ball too deep or release the ball helter skelter out to the backs right from the get go to show their attacking intent, Ireland were much smarter this week. They took the ball into contact more and drove again up the middle sucking in AB defenders. The young kid Savea who had a dream debut was made to look ineffective this week. The Irish starved him of ball and space and showed that with the right kick and chase, he is not comfortable under the high ball.

So the right tactics got Ireland close to the AB line. The ball came slowly and though it was a very well taken try, Woodcock and all the rest will be made to look at the replay of that and show why on the line you go for the man with the ball instead of round the legs. Sexton was in good kicking form and Ireland got the right start. But I'd have thought that Kidney would have learned from last week and a major weakness of Ireland - the restarts - and worked on getting that right. Ireland were 10 - 0 up, (rather fortuitously I think, as in the lead up an Irish player cleared out someone from the side and wasn't pinged), but much like last week they blew a perfect opportunity to force further mistakes from the ABs by applying pressure. They lost all the restarts regardless of who was kicking. I think when D'Arcy cleverly blocked a jumping McCaw aiming for the ball, it was the first time Ireland didn't lose a restart. It is simply unforgiveable at this level to lose so many restarts. Heaslip is a big man and often when the ball came to him it wasn't him competing for the ball. So what did this mean for Ireland: 3 penalties to Carter and a perfect chance to apply pressure from starving the opposition of points on the board was wasted. You can't afford to let sides like the ABs such an easy way back into a match. You have to make them suffer for it (for which they pay later on defence) and see if you can force them into pushing things when mistakes usually occur.

That said, there was much to admire about the Ireland performance. The ABs were not playing badly. They got possession and came at the Irish aggressively but the Irish were equally ferocious on defence. Their line didn't buckle and NZ couldn't make inroads out wide. They were forced to go up the middle. So when another promising AB move was shut down and Ireland went into the break, it was a bitter sweet moment. Certainly sweet as their confidence for holding out the ABs attacks gave them much needed belief but also bitter because their dominance should've seen them up by much more.

So it proved after the break when NZ got some good ball and got just reward. I think Smith had another fine game and probably looked the most composed AB out on the field today. He was error free and his passing crisp and his try was just reward for a fine game. Maybe it was the thought that those fecking ABs didn 't deserve to be up by 6 but I think Ireland's comeback had more to do with they thought they were right in this match. You have to admire their determination and with Read off (I didn't really understand why that call was made because while Cane didn't seem out of place, I think the balance of the backrow was badly affected by his absence.) Ireland started getting ascendancy in the scrum. With Franks coming on for his brother it was even more dominant.

Ireland showed in the middle part of that game that when you rattle the ABs without giving them a cushion on the scoreboard they are made to look human. Franks gave away a soft penalty for coming round the side when the ball was out but he didn't come from the hind most player. Dagg got effectively sent off for an ill-advised elbow. He was already committed in the air but if he had made contact with Kearney with open arms on the shoulder I think it would've been fine. That ill-discipline from NZ must be attributed to the Irish pressure. You don't make mistakes, you get forced into them.

So with the scores all tied Sexton had a shot for goal that didn't have the legs. The penalty in the scrum proved decisive. I don't think it was the wrong decision but truth be told those are the kind of calls you get called against you. Weepu, for example, wasn't pinged for getting the ball in whereas Reddan was in the first half. These moments seem insignificant but can have a large bearing on the game. But often I think we tend to always remember the dying moments of the match. Ireland for my mind will be ruing how they so easily lost a 10 - 0 lead in the first half from failing to win a single restart until it was too late.

The ABs will probably be training this week as if they lost. That's not such a bad thing. Sometimes you need to be in the right frame of mind to play test rugby. The 32 point win last weekend didn't do NZ any favours today. They had much to improve on and in some areas did so. But they also dropped their performance in other areas and Ireland were much more improved around the park so they were two very even sides out there today like the scoreboard suggested. The pleasing thing from the AB perspective after that scrum penalty was that NZ played the right tactics. If you don't have a fullback then don't pass the ball out wide. Take it up the middle and Carter's fluffed drop attempt which touched an Irish hand saw a 5m scrum and an ugly but effective drop goal from Carter.

So the better team lost today? I don't hold that opinion. But nor do I think the better team won. The points came the same way and when you look at the chances both sides have, it was an even game. If Ireland had won the feed to that scrum and scored thereafter, it's easy to say the better team won in that regard. The AB fans wouldn't have anything to quarrel about. Let's not underestimate this Irish performance today. But let's not the emotion of having them get so close hide the fact that there were still areas where Ireland could have found a way to come out on top today. And that is what in the end the ABs did. They found a way to win a match that looked very much like one they were going to lose. We can applaud them for that but the fact that the score was so close was an indication of how even those two sides were out there today and when you look at the ranking of Ireland and the year let alone the previous weekend Ireland have had you have to take your hat off to them. But we should also not patronise them as today they put in a performance that deserved victory and they must look very closely at why they ended up on the losing side if they are to truly learn and be a better team from today's performance.

I'd have to watch the game again but I'm not sure of our great position to win. It was a great opportunity but I'm not sure where we could have stole it. Sexton missed a difficult penalty and when we were pinged at the scrum and conceded a penalty I'm not sure we had the ball until after Carter's DG, and at that stage it was too late. Nerve didn't come into, Ireland fought every second for that victory but came up short. I mean, you could have all the nerve in the world and still lose but I've a feeling we're gonna agree to disagree on this one so ....

Im no rugby brain, but for me the Irish played exactly how you need to, to beat the ABs. Strangle them. I don't think the irish even need to improve, just play that way again next week and you'll find the ABs will struggle again. It wasn't necessarily a poor AB performance, just an exceptionally spirited and reasonably well disciplined Irish performance that allowed few oppertunities to the ABs but took those on offer yourself (in general). If you expect more than that Rodders, you're a hard man

Gretgael... 70 + min, penalty on halfway...opposition down to 14 men, dominant scrum.... scores level.

That, in my laymans opinion is a great position to win the game. Kick at goal was the wrong option with 10 min to go. We should have went for the lineout and set up camp in the ABs half, buit the pressure...they were at 6's and 7's at that point and the kick was a long way out.

Even when we missed the pen we go another chance to set up for the dropgoal and didn't do it..... I criticised Wales for the samething against the BOKs and France at the RWC...

Sorry but at this level that is as good as it gets man... opportunity doesn't knock 3 times.

We had our chances today but fluffed them.

[quote="rodders We need to improve..and quickly. [/quote]

From a 30 point thrashing to a near miss in one week? Can't think of a quicker improvement in one week in the time I've ever watched the game to be honest Rodders so safe to say theyve got that part covered.

Fair play Taylorman...spot on man.... Ireland to win by 29 points next week!

Of course, in layman terms it's a get position to win the game but it's very simplistic view. Sexton kicked to take the lead, it was difficult but he kicked great all game and wouldn't have taken it on if he felt he couldn't get it. Our scrum was on top, but there was only one scrum in the last 10 mins that was not on our try line and we were on the end of a questionable decision. So when you break in down it's not as straight forward as you say.

No not simple Gretgael, like I say I'm a layman,... but these are quality professional players and expectation should be high, even against the ABs...this was one that got away, we had our chances and great chances they were. I believe that.

But it's water under the bridge, it's about next week now and consolation prizes... but a victory over the ABs, even whilst losing the series is not to be sniffed at..

Believe

Btw, I'm not an apologist. We played bloody hard today and players deserve some respect for that performance. We can all make the right noises and say the right things about not winning, and I agree, there is no victory in defeat but there is no disgrace when giving everything you have. We done that today but still came up short. Rugby isn't a game of perfection.

The bottom line is we both want to see a victory and hopefully we will soon.

No no, no disgrace at all mate... I'm hugely proud of our side, every player... no criticism on that...its just...it could have been so much better and we need to believe that... we could have had an historic win over the ABs under our belts and be heading into next weekend looking to win the series.

But it wasn't to be.. but all things considered today was a massive performance and something to be proud of. No doubt about that .

Ireland played the game they love scrap for everything in an arm wrestle,they created little but stifled the AllBlacks efforts to create anything.BUT for the Dropped Goal the score line was identical.IF you wanted to fire up a team all
you needed was the purple media prose used this week. Ireland were`nt 32 points worse than the AB`s last week and did`nt deserve some of the press.
I expected this a typical Munster style spoiling game,desperately unlucky not to draw at least.BUT you play flatout a full 80 plus minutes if you want to down any All Blacks side.At least this time the AB`s had the nous to set up a drop and win ugly.I doubt the result will be as close next week AB`s seldom have 2 matches they struggle in back to back.Messam back next week? just hope he performs better than most times when he`s played in Black not convinced.
Read if concussed may not play next week,Nonu may start wonder if Romano will get a shot at Lock next week?

Problem with next week is the ABs will improve. Its part of the furniture for them to learn from this match. Whatever focus they had before this match (improvement, more accuracy, error reduction and all the usual motivational intangibles) the focus will be full on back to where it should have been all along,,,

Beating Ireland.

Thats why I can't see a repeat from Ireland next week. The chance was there last night and the AB's don't give these up very often outside the top 3.

I think people are overlooking the key issue. Having utterly outclassed Ireland the week before the All Blacks were always going to struggle to reach the same level of motivation and intensity second time around. Whichever way you cut it, Ireland blew their chance against an unmotivated and unfocused New Zealand side that had it too easy in the first game. Big opportunity wasted for Ireland and now they will face a backlash in the third test as the All Blacks will not be satisfied by that performance. Fully expect New Zealand to put up a score on Ireland to end the series decisively.

Gordy wrote:I think people are overlooking the key issue. Having utterly outclassed Ireland the week before the All Blacks were always going to struggle to reach the same level of motivation and intensity second time around. Whichever way you cut it, Ireland blew their chance against an unmotivated and unfocused New Zealand side that had it too easy in the first game. Big opportunity wasted for Ireland and now they will face a backlash in the third test as the All Blacks will not be satisfied by that performance. Fully expect New Zealand to put up a score on Ireland to end the series decisively.

This 'backlash' business. Commented on it a few minutes ago on another thread. But here goes again

Who won that game with a drop goal at the very end? Who won the game? I didn't see annoyance in the eyes of the ABs - a feeling that they had let themselves and their fans down, a feeling that they had been caught sleeping. What I saw in the eyes of McCaw and company was relief that the script had turned out right in the end and they didn't care how they accomplished it, they just wanted off the field with a quickest score they could muster - had they been trying to restore egos they would have kept hitting Ireland, kept the overtime clock going and punched in for their 'back to business' try with 14 men against 15. That would have been the stamp of dominance.

But no, they were relieved to get off the field with their win because they knew they had been in a game, a serious game, a game they lost control over for huge swathes - and no, not because they were sleepy and apathetic, but because they were hit by a different side than the one that played them the first week. They didn't know the Irish player's names the first week...but should have - and should have listened to media from this Hemisphere constantly saying that Ireland's problems are some coaching and some motivation...but the players can take on anyone if in the right frame of mind. The ABs just simply met those players for a first time yesterday and found that life can be annoying when you don't get everything your own way. The ABs tried to do the 'backlash' game yesterday and it was ground down and contained for most of the game. The ABs had ample reason to want to put the boot into the Irish yesterday, to kill off the jokers, to give the coup de grace. They were well motivated to play the game and play it to crush Irish hopes. They didn't because on that day at least, they couldn't... not because they didn't want to.

So the 'backlash'? The Irish get a backlash for having the temerity to actually play well enough to be in with a chance of winning? Strange concept of the word 'backlash'. Usually the side who loses a close game has the ideas of next opportunity will be a chance for a 'backlash'. Ireland weren't happy. Carter was smiling. 'Backlash' thoughts are in the eye of the beholder I suppose.

Perhaps Secretfly. I just think it comes back to that old age old tool used for winning matches- motivation. Ireland are not used to it but the reality with the AB's is one of their primary tools for winning tests is finding the right motivation to win matches.

Being no.1, world champs playing a team that has not won in over 100 years and were crushed the previous week is as you can imagine a little difficult to get super motivated for, no matter how much you try to gloss it over.

Since the 30 odd point win last week all we've heard is this week will be more of the same.

Fans have been saying it- both Irish and Kiwi. Media has been saying it and even the professionals who make living off the results have been saying it. Our Tote had AB's at 1.03 and Ireland 12.00 to win, the fave difference 31 points.

All of them, us, just people...all saying it.

Obviously the Irish team werent saying it and being the professionals neither were the AB's. But they're people too and its hard not to notice all this talk of favouritism and leave it off the field, subconsciously at least.

But after this result, there will be no more talk of a 30 point diff, tons of talk of Ireland getting up for next week, about getting out of jail, getting lucky.

This time, that intrinsic, almost tangible concept of motivation will be with the AB's, as it will be with the Irish, the 'difference' between the two a lesser extent that last week.

That motivation will serve the AB's more, being the more resourceful and skilled side, and they rarely have two bad matches in a row when this sort of thing happens. This week the Irish held the surprise cards. Next week they'll hold none.

Taylorman wrote:Perhaps Secretfly. I just think it comes back to that old age old tool used for winning matches- motivation. Ireland are not used to it but the reality with the AB's is one of their primary tools for winning tests is finding the right motivation to win matches.

Being no.1, world champs playing a team that has not won in over 100 years and were crushed the previous week is as you can imagine a little difficult to get super motivated for, no matter how much you try to gloss it over.

Since the 30 odd point win last week all we've heard is this week will be more of the same.

Fans have been saying it- both Irish and Kiwi. Media has been saying it and even the professionals who make living off the results have been saying it. Our Tote had AB's at 1.03 and Ireland 12.00 to win, the fave difference 31 points.

All of them, us, just people...all saying it.

Obviously the Irish team werent saying it and being the professionals neither were the AB's. But they're people too and its hard not to notice all this talk of favouritism and leave it off the field, subconsciously at least.

But after this result, there will be no more talk of a 30 point diff, tons of talk of Ireland getting up for next week, about getting out of jail, getting lucky.

This time, that intrinsic, almost tangible concept of motivation will be with the AB's, as it will be with the Irish, the 'difference' between the two a lesser extent that last week.

That motivation will serve the AB's more, being the more resourceful and skilled side, and they rarely have two bad matches in a row when this sort of thing happens. This week the Irish held the surprise cards. Next week they'll hold none.

Yes, ABs are the better side. Only idiots would try to hold down an argument to the contrary. Yes too, the New Zealand media and fans thought it was a forgone conclusion (I've spoken about that perception in other posts)

But Irish players play in a National side where because of a set-up we followers constantly criticise on these boards, they do not pick up the respect they deserve as 'individuals'. Many of them are amongst the very best that Europe has to offer - and have proven it over the years at club level and in the records of the personal records in HC archives. We know the quality of our players and bemoan the quality of our coaches. These players are not one hit, one game wonders...the system they cruise under at present seem to create the conditions of the erratic performances and frustrating inconsistency (WC, Six Nations etc) The system, not the players. Like I said, I think ABs have more weapons left in their creative invention cabinet but no - I don't think they have too many more weapons to worry Ireland in the 'test' physicality stakes. So if they are going to show us the 'real' ABs again next week, I think it'll have to be some very creative stuff (looking forward to seeing that) but they're not going to bully Ireland or these Irish players with a next gear in power and menace.

I think we're saying the same thing in the end. For me this week we let the Irish get in our faces and dictate most of the play so we couldnt play our own game.

Next week its not about finding another gear or level its about re-establishing the platform so that we can play our own game. More intensity up front, better cleanouts, getting Ireland on the back foot before launching attacks. Its always there, and this week Ireland upset that foundation.

The question for them will be whether they can do it again. And thats the difference between an AB side and an Irish side.

When you get down to the nitty gritty it was another game NZ won just,they were glad to take it and fight another day.Brutal it certainly was Read off with a Head bang,Thomson with a broken nose,Williams with a crook leg needing surgery.Next week is next week,talk of other gears is pointless you take it match by match.Certainly the loss of the best 4 and 6 in World Rugby hurt them,as did the best 8 at half time.Replacements arn`t there off the shelf or even in NZ currently.Next week both teams wil know what they have to do to win.The point about going for a try at the end is well taken,in the past they would have tried it and lost.JWC the Baby Blacks had a kickable Penalty chance to level the match.Kicked for the corner,got white line fever and lost,lesson take the points in a tight match.

Well speaking of the jwc wales gained confidence from the poool win over the bb's.
The bbs learned from it. Back on dry ground the bbs were able to apply their game and in the end it was no contest.

This is what should happen next week. Simply because the right ingredients will be there. NZ are higer ranked, possess more skills, are at home and have been shaken by an incredible irish effort in a way that they will not be surprised a second time. Theyre in the business of winning test matches and theyll want to end the tour on a high note. Not to tell the world this that etc...but to satisfy themselves that theyre on the right track as a new team still finding their way since winning the wcup.

I just think the irish had their chance. And wont get another. The abs cant afford to let them.

Well Taylorman I understand that view and my head would tend to agree...certainly I am expecting the ABs to play much better next week.

That said I have to back my own players, I believe in them and feel they have more in the tank, more to improve on. I think they've grown into this tour and expect that Saturday will have given them the belief that they can win.

I certainly wouldn't be surprised to see a comprehensive All black victory, but likewise I can see us pushing the ABs even further than last time out and with a bit more composure and discipline perhaps even coming away with the result..... a huge ask for us but not impossible.

Good luck to both sides, I hope both play out of their skins and we have another cracking test .

rodders wrote:Well Taylorman I understand that view and my head would tend to agree...certainly I am expecting the ABs to play much better next week.

That said I have to back my own players, I believe in them and feel they have more in the tank, more to improve on. I think they've grown into this tour and expect that Saturday will have given them the belief that they can win.

I certainly wouldn't be surprised to see a comprehensive All black victory, but likewise I can see us pushing the ABs even further than last time out and with a bit more composure and discipline perhaps even coming away with the result..... a huge ask for us but not impossible.

Good luck to both sides, I hope both play out of their skins and we have another cracking test .

Hi Rodders,
Absolutely you have to back them...I sure would have. I'm only putting some boring context around it all but who knows what could happen next week.

The other thing is this week its going to be terrible weather and if Hamilton throws up a wet night the AB's may not get their chance to reclaim the higher ground so to speak meaning Ireland may get to carry on where they left off.

If it had been raining on Saturday night in any way near to the Oz Scot match I think we would have lost for sure. Drop goals dont go over in that sort of weather- especially bad ones. In worse weather the ABs wouldnt have had time to regroup to hold off the Irish ferocity.

This week the AB's will look at both dry and wet track gameplans but if Ireland can continue where they left off, they could steal it.

The other thing is I meant it when that defensive effort needs to be bottled. Never seen it from a NH team other than France on the odd occasion and we had Ian Jones here taking it apart with some graphics here after the match and the shutting down of Carters lines etc made a huge difference.

It has the effect of creating an offensive defence where mistakes are forced and turnovers are created, and worse creates doubt and loss of confidence in the runners who are normally given all the room in the world.

Look at the real estate in the first test- wide and open. Look at the second- zip. Nowhere to go. Was fantastic to see such a change in a week. Some very smart minds went to work on that one.

On the NZ note Ali is out for 8 weeks and yess!...his parting shot...HIS MOUTH...

"The 31-year-old's frustrations boiled over in Christchurch, where he was berated by McCaw for back-chatting referee Nigel Owens and it would be a pity if it were one of the final acts of his storied career. "

'Pity' or 'Fitting'...I'm just glad hes out to be honest. Took long enough.

Taylorman wrote:Well speaking of the jwc wales gained confidence from the poool win over the bb's.
The bbs learned from it. Back on dry ground the bbs were able to apply their game and in the end it was no contest.

This is what should happen next week. Simply because the right ingredients will be there. NZ are higer ranked, possess more skills, are at home and have been shaken by an incredible irish effort in a way that they will not be surprised a second time. Theyre in the business of winning test matches and theyll want to end the tour on a high note. Not to tell the world this that etc...but to satisfy themselves that theyre on the right track as a new team still finding their way since winning the wcup.

I just think the irish had their chance. And wont get another. The abs cant afford to let them.

Think you need to look at the ref to see why it was "no contest" it should have been a very good match that was destroyed by a whistle. BBs were better on the day but the scoreline flattered them.

Agree Tycroes...just applying some balance to all the 'No way would the BB's would have won if it was dry- it was the same for both' comments for the first match.

Same teams, different ground. Ref didnt make a 27 point difference.

For NZ and Oz teams it makes more of a difference than people think.

Look at Oz versus scotland then Scotland versus Fiji on hard ground. Scotland didnt make much of an improvement on a hard ground.

Oz would have.

Taylorman wrote:Agree Tycroes...just applying some balance to all the 'No way would the BB's would have won if it was dry- it was the same for both' comments for the first match.

Same teams, different ground. Ref didnt make a 27 point difference.

For NZ and Oz teams it makes more of a difference than people think.

Look at Oz versus scotland then Scotland versus Fiji on hard ground. Scotland didnt make much of an improvement on a hard ground.

Oz would have.

Well I wold have thought the Blacks are used to playing in the wet as much as the welsh are. Honestly today theres was only a 10-12 point difference in the sides. Had wales gone 9-0 up then I thin the BBs would have been under pressure and we could have dragged them into a dogfight. After the try was disallowed the welsh boys felt they were against 16 men and it demoralised them.

TycroesOsprey wrote:

Taylorman wrote:Agree Tycroes...just applying some balance to all the 'No way would the BB's would have won if it was dry- it was the same for both' comments for the first match.

Same teams, different ground. Ref didnt make a 27 point difference.

For NZ and Oz teams it makes more of a difference than people think.

Look at Oz versus scotland then Scotland versus Fiji on hard ground. Scotland didnt make much of an improvement on a hard ground.

Oz would have.

Well I wold have thought the Blacks are used to playing in the wet as much as the welsh are. Honestly today theres was only a 10-12 point difference in the sides. Had wales gone 9-0 up then I thin the BBs would have been under pressure and we could have dragged them into a dogfight. After the try was disallowed the welsh boys felt they were against 16 men and it demoralised them.

Yes it didnt look good- especially that try. Stupid that he didnt even go to the higher powers for a check.

My point is still this comment:

Well I wold have thought the Blacks are used to playing in the wet as much as the welsh are."

Yes we probably are. And thats why the first game was close. We are probably no better in the wet is another way of putting it.

But on dryer firmer grounds where we can actually run, pass, catch the ball at pace we are that much stronger. Playing in the wet provides a leveller. It removes our ability to launch fast pased attacks when it doesnt remove the same level of ability in other teams. Thats why I mentioned Scotland. they were the same in wet and probably worse in dry comparatively as it let Fiji into the game.

I dont believe the Welsh U20's or Scotland would have won if the match was played on firmer tracks.

Its just an opinion which is why I was waiting for the match this morning.

You could say the ref spoilt the match. My point is the wet cost us the match. And you probably wouldnt agree. But there it is.

Oh I think the weather was an issue in the first game. I also know that the welsh are more than capable of playing running rugby as demonstrated by the win over the samoans where they outperformed the BBs result.

The problem for me with the BBs all started at loosehead today and last week, had we been allowed we could and should have done a number again. It started so well but as decisions and points started going against us the boys heads dropped. Having watched the game again now Im still very pleased with much of the welsh performance espescially in the scrum. I also think we may have unearthed a gem in Samson Lee but will hold off crowning him Adams successor till he meets a decent loosehead.

Both Ireland and Wales seem to have a few young ones coming through. That can only complement the weekend results when only a couple of points separated both their Senior equivalents.

Be a shame if none of the 9 matches from the main tours werent won as already Wales and Ireland have possibly deserved two of them already.

For me without being convincing on the scoreboard the Boks just seem to be holding England at arms length, doing enough to win. Just can't see them getting on top of SA at all.

TycroesOsprey wrote:Oh I think the weather was an issue in the first game. I also know that the welsh are more than capable of playing running rugby as demonstrated by the win over the samoans where they outperformed the BBs result.

The problem for me with the BBs all started at loosehead today and last week, had we been allowed we could and should have done a number again. It started so well but as decisions and points started going against us the boys heads dropped. Having watched the game again now Im still very pleased with much of the welsh performance espescially in the scrum. I also think we may have unearthed a gem in Samson Lee but will hold off crowning him Adams successor till he meets a decent loosehead.

I think you might be flatter yourselves over it. Yes Wales had one area in the game early that was a bit dominate. Was tighthead. But that alone is not enough to winning the game.

BB slowly gain ascendency in the breakdown by hit the same tacklers again and again with big runners until they can't make the tackle any more! This was some tactic also come from the Chiefs SXV. Then they adjust more numbers to the breakdown and just get over the Welsh top and break up the strong defense.

BB made Wales come to them to playing the style and not the vice-versa although Wales try to make the game slow and wet-weather kick contest like the dead-rubber pool game.