Rooney

The man to take England to the next level? Yes he is a terrific player and has proven it in the EPL? But what has he ever done for England? Totally under-achieved whenever he plays.

Should he start in the (vain) hope that he brings his club form to the international stage?

youngest player to represent england on debut
youngest player to score at euros
then injured against portugal
injured leading up to the 06 world cup
didnt qualify in 08
no one performed in 10 yet he was made scapegoat

end of discussion

How about in the qualifying matches? When has he dominated a game or even been man of the match? Granted with England its usually the bloodied defenders of battling midfielders who win such awards.

JamesLincs wrote:youngest player to represent england on debut
youngest player to score at euros
then injured against portugal
injured leading up to the 06 world cup
didnt qualify in 08
no one performed in 10 yet he was made scapegoat

end of discussion

Totally agree, in 2010 he was in the worst form of his life but is over that now and he really shouldn't have played at 06 'cause of injury. He'll get a few for England.

He hasn't scored an international tournament goal for 8 years so you could argue that he's due a good performance. He's still our most talented player by a country mile.

Be interesting to see who makes way for him against the Ukraine because Carroll and Wellbeck played quite well the other night.

I think Carroll should make way, Rooney and Welbeck know how to play in a striking partnership because their at the same club.

Carroll has more potential as a sub.

Graeme Swann's Cat wrote:Carroll has more potential as a sub.

I completely disagree. While the FA Cup Final would suggest differently across the year Carroll was much more effective as a starter than as a sub. As soon as he comes off of the bench the team resorts to just hoofing it up to him which isn't as common when he starts. I think if he isn't starting, I wouldn't bother bringing him on as a sub, Defoe would be a better option.

I'd rather lump it to him for 20 minutes than 90 though

Graeme Swann's Cat wrote:I'd rather lump it to him for 20 minutes than 90 though

I don't think the team does lump it up to him over the whole 90 minutes because we're not as desperate.

Ultimately when we come up against the likes of Spain we need to be clinical though. Might only get 2-3 chances.

Play Walcott against Spain. They wouldn't press as much as they do with him on the pitch. They're petrified of his pace.

Ultimately it wouldn't make a blind bit of difference who England play. Spain are on another level.

azania wrote:Play Walcott against Spain. They wouldn't press as much as they do with him on the pitch. They're petrified of his pace.

Ultimately it wouldn't make a blind bit of difference who England play. Spain are on another level.

I agree with your 'Spain are on another level' but I don't agree with your comment of them being petrified of his pace. I agree, Walcott's pace is a real threat, but he'd be up against Jordi Alba who is one of the quickest full backs around.

martyr_94 wrote:

azania wrote:Play Walcott against Spain. They wouldn't press as much as they do with him on the pitch. They're petrified of his pace.

Ultimately it wouldn't make a blind bit of difference who England play. Spain are on another level.

I agree with your 'Spain are on another level' but I don't agree with your comment of them being petrified of his pace. I agree, Walcott's pace is a real threat, but he'd be up against Jordi Alba who is one of the quickest full backs around.

Walcott is in the form of his life. Knowing Hodgson he will wait till 85 minutes again before he gets him on!

This is a big test for Rooney. He was brilliant as a kid 8 years ago, as good as anyone in that tournament until he got crocked, but for one reason and another, form, injury and personal stuff he hasnt really hit those heights again. No excuses this time, he is fit and should perform. So lets see what happens.

Unfortunately with Wayne Rooney, there has often been a great deal of talking the talk, and far too little walking the walk. He promises a great deal, but delivers very little when it matters most. Is that about to change..? We'd all like to hope so, but only time will tell.

It may be that Wayne will play against Ukraine, have a blinder, score a couple of goals and all will be well in Wayne's World. Until the weekend, at least.

But what of the next challenge..? What of the Spaniards, or whoever England were to meet in the Quarter Finals..? What then..? When the margins for error are narrowed and Wayne is expected to do the business in a win-or-go-home situation, probably against a team who now have a proven track record in that sort of theatre..?

Wayne's notoriously fragile temperament has gotten the better of him too many times in the past and we all know how Spain play.... when they get the ball off you, you need a court order to get it back. If Wayne is reduced to chasing shadows and can't get the ball, he could become frustrated.... especially if he starts taking it out on the referee.... then the whole edifice could easily crumble.

Wayne Rooney is a talented footballer and when everything is going well and he's getting his own way and the opposition are there to be rumbled over, then Wayne's your man. In cricket they have a name for players like that: Flat Track Bully.

It's in adversity that you find out the most about individuals and Wayne has come up short before. Can anybody tell us what is so different about this tournament from any of the others he's fallen short in, that will make enough of a difference (and that would have to be a great deal) to overcome a seriously strong Spanish XI who ooze quality from 1 to 11.

Don't get me wrong... I'd love him to make a strong contribution and for England to do well but we've been down this road before and it's ended in crushing disappointment to those who have built their hopes up too high, and put too much emotional faith in the ability of a temperamentally flawed, ill disciplined man whose blue touchpaper can be set off by the slightest spark, to rise to the occasion.

Yes, I know he was only yellow carded a couple of times in last season's premiership, but this isn't the Premiership. A QF against Spain is different to a three pointer against Aston Villa at Old Trafford.

I'm going to take everything as it comes and not expect too much. If Wayne does the business against Ukraine, then all good. I'll take that. But after that, the real business starts.

That's when we will see his real mettle.

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what people dont understand about rooney is- and in reality all stars at clubs that are full of lesser players- is that even his average performances for england are as good as anyone elses..

people got on ronaldos back- fact is he was better than anyone else in those two games anyway- and then was amazing in the third game.

Jen - you and your stupid flat track bully comment lol- Rooney has won a CL ..

people bang on about coming up short- How has he ever come up short, bar his sending offs offcourse(which granted was bad)- but his play is fine, we dont have better- so if you dont think its good enough- its still the best we got.

Rooneys one of our better players- but dont expect to much hey- there is only so much can do with certain players around him. Look at messi and ronaldo- both slated by there nations- because they expect more- then offcourse they do have a blinder and everything is good again- but when they fail again- which they will(a good game at international level for them is like a legendary one for barca or real due to the difference in the players around them. An average one is like a good one. National fans look at an average game as a bad game- they dont win!! and cant

Same scenario for rooney really- he is only a footballer.(same goes for ibraham at sweden an all)

by the way i am not saying he is as good as ronaldo or messi- just that he is our version of those players. But what ever we do- we shouldnt ever expect miracles. And when we do that just adds the pressure on him- which he doesnt need

btw rooney was injured in 10 as well. he shouldnt have even been there, also injured in -06, we didnt make it in 08, so that leaves 04..

so the reality is this is the only time we have a fully fit rooney since 2004 which he actually did ok in!

Rooney has consistently under performed at International level. For a player bigged up as he constantly is, he has been consistent in provide average performances.

he had an amazing qualyfing to the 2010 wc- i think 9 goals in 10 . And very good this time around as well

Must people just remember him for his cup form when he has been injured in all off them- so its probally not fair. But as i said his average is better than most others good. He is exactly the same as messi,ronaldo and ibraham in the respect that people have unrealistic expectations of him at international level..

mystiroakey wrote:
Jen - you and your stupid flat track bully comment lol- Rooney has won a CL ..

Hmmmm @ Champions League winner. As I recall, his champions league winners medal came in a final won on a penalty shoot out where the opposition had the opportunity to win and would have done so had John Terry not slipped when taking his shot. United's goal that night was scored by Ronaldo in a match that Rooney's contribution was quite ordinary. Indeed, he didn't even take a penalty in the shoot out, having been substituted..!!

Rooney has played in two LOSING champions league finals (2009 and 2011), both times being shown up by Barcelona who made his performances look very ordinary. At Wembley in 2011, Manchester United kicked off and that was the last time Rooney saw the ball..!!

In the Quarter Final in 2010, he was completely overshadowed by Arjen Robben and Bayern Munich, and finally hobbled out of the game with a strain or something.

If you talk about WR's Champions League record, look at the big picture, against the best teams on the big occasions and then tell me how good he looks.

It is in matches at the highest level that the best players make the biggest contributions.

At international level, he has scored 28 goals in 74 appearances and only two of those have come against recognised "top" nations (1 against Holland and 1 against Argentina) the rest have been scored against the likes of Andorra... Slovakia... Bulgaria...Estonia... Kazakhstan).

Please understand..... this isn't a Rooney hatefest, it's intended as a cold, analytical look at a player who has, in my opinion, conspicuously failed to deliver and has shown a temperamental instability that.... for all his much-lauded talent.... makes me nervous about whether or not he is capable of influencing the later stages of the tournament as much as everybody seems to think he will.

Your hero-worship is touching, Mystiroakey, I sincerely hope Wayne does the job, truly I do. But when it comes to "flat track bully", my advice is for you to come back and tell me my comment is stupid when Wayne has contributed something significant to a major England achievement. I would be delighted to admit I was wrong.


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You dont get it jen. thats all. Most dont- you expect to much- i could write you an essay on messi,ronaldo and ibraham not performing at international level- stop expecting so much!!! its about the team not one player .

To rooneys credit he has been injured in every cup he has played in - 2004 was a good tourny when he was fit(obviously got injured during it!)

hero worshiping- Lol. Can you read- i dont even expect from him- haha

you have made my day luv

The simple fact is that Rooney on an average day is equivalent to Carroll on a good day, Rooney on a good day blows anything Carroll can do out of the water. That's why we must pick Wayne and tear apart the foreign enemy that we see across the Channel.

At Wembley in 2011, Manchester United kicked off and that was the last time Rooney saw the ball..!!

You mean the final in which he scored......? Probably the only United player to come out of that final with any credit at all.

It is true that Rooney has failed to deliver the goods all the time, but he has on other occasions, Manchester City last minute- overhead kick, Champions League final- scored a goal, tried to drag the team back into it. He has faced adversity and come out on top, but unfortunately it appears to be with his club rather than country.

The pressure is on him now more than ever, he's been labelled our only good player and he's going to have to live up to them expectations, it will be difficult. I don't think he's going to have a stormer, I think he'll have a good game, possibly get a goal. That's all that matters in the end. Make sure we win.

I think he just needs to make sure he keeps a cool head if things aren't going our way, I'm hoping Gerrard can be a calming influence on him if we do go a goal down as Gerrard excels when his team is up against it and hopefully he can get Wayne grabbing the game by the scruff of the neck like Gerrard used to do.

4 goals v munich..in the cl. then one of there players crushed his ankle and he was playing through an injury on and off for 10 months which included the wc....

got back into form this season . things are looking up- he is fresh for the first time in 8 years- thank gawdd- but lets not put to much pressure on him- its a team game

no matter what happens, everyone will be blaming rooney for something. what about the midfield and defence that conceded 4 to germany?

Jennifer1984 wrote:

mystiroakey wrote:
Jen - you and your stupid flat track bully comment lol- Rooney has won a CL ..

At Wembley in 2011, Manchester United kicked off and that was the last time Rooney saw the ball..!!

Other than the time he scored

When fit, Rooney is one of our best players, so he will be an automatic selection in a relatively average team.

His disciplinary record at Utd last season was much better, suggesting he has matured.He's not going to lead us to glory all on his own, he's no Maradona, but he is the best forward we have at present.

Does anyone actually think he will lead this current squad of England players to glory ? Seriously ? (me neither)

much better is an understatement, didnt he get his first booking in like april?

Graeme Swann's Cat wrote:

Jennifer1984 wrote:

mystiroakey wrote:
Jen - you and your stupid flat track bully comment lol- Rooney has won a CL ..

At Wembley in 2011, Manchester United kicked off and that was the last time Rooney saw the ball..!!

Other than the time he scored

Indeed, he carries that average ManU team on his shoulders.

JamesLincs wrote:
then injured against portugal
injured leading up to the 06 world cup

Didn't he mess up in the 2006 WC quarterfinal against Portugal, or do we take comfort in concluding that it was all a ploy by Figo and Ronaldo?

http://www.fifa.com/worldcup/archive/germany2006/results/matches/match=97410059/report.html

Let's be honest - Rooney is the best attacking player England have available. As long as he's fit, he starts - it's then just a question of whether it is alongside Welbeck or Carroll (at the moment I'd go with Welbeck because of their club partnership).

Why is Rooney the best available? Because he's the one guy who has the individual skill to turn a game with either a defence-splitting pass or shot (i'm remembering goals like the overhead kick or the long range volley from a few years ago right after he'd been arguing with the ref). Whether he is a genuinely 'world class' player or merely a very good one depends on how you define these terms and how much weight you give to the down-sides of Rooney's on-field character (sometimes hot-headed and prone to indiscipline).

Does Rooney's addition to the side mean we are good enough to win the tournament? Almost certainly not (noting that occasionally apparently poor sides actually go on and win tournaments based on team ethic and a bit of luck - Greece, Chelsea etc). Even with him, we are still techncially inferior to Spain and don't have the combination of work ethic, technical skill and athleticism of Germany (the team we really should be trying to emulate).

Jennifer1984 wrote:

mystiroakey wrote:
Jen - you and your stupid flat track bully comment lol- Rooney has won a CL ..

Hmmmm @ Champions League winner. As I recall, his champions league winners medal came in a final won on a penalty shoot out where the opposition had the opportunity to win and would have done so had John Terry not slipped when taking his shot. United's goal that night was scored by Ronaldo in a match that Rooney's contribution was quite ordinary. Indeed, he didn't even take a penalty in the shoot out, having been substituted..!!

Rooney has played in two LOSING champions league finals (2009 and 2011), both times being shown up by Barcelona who made his performances look very ordinary. At Wembley in 2011, Manchester United kicked off and that was the last time Rooney saw the ball..!!

In the Quarter Final in 2010, he was completely overshadowed by Arjen Robben and Bayern Munich, and finally hobbled out of the game with a strain or something.

If you talk about WR's Champions League record, look at the big picture, against the best teams on the big occasions and then tell me how good he looks.

It is in matches at the highest level that the best players make the biggest contributions.

At international level, he has scored 28 goals in 74 appearances and only two of those have come against recognised "top" nations (1 against Holland and 1 against Argentina) the rest have been scored against the likes of Andorra... Slovakia... Bulgaria...Estonia... Kazakhstan).

Please understand..... this isn't a Rooney hatefest, it's intended as a cold, analytical look at a player who has, in my opinion, conspicuously failed to deliver and has shown a temperamental instability that.... for all his much-lauded talent.... makes me nervous about whether or not he is capable of influencing the later stages of the tournament as much as everybody seems to think he will.

Your hero-worship is touching, Mystiroakey, I sincerely hope Wayne does the job, truly I do. But when it comes to "flat track bully", my advice is for you to come back and tell me my comment is stupid when Wayne has contributed something significant to a major England achievement. I would be delighted to admit I was wrong.


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Wayne Rooney actually equalised against Barcelona in the final with a very good goal. A moment of class. So to say he didnt touch the ball from kick off is very wrong.

Also, to have scored 28 goals at International Level in 74 games, is pretty impressive. Thats a goal every 2.6 games. Its amazing you even put this in your article here, because his strike rate is highter than the likes of Kevin Keegan, Geoff Hurst, Bryan Robson etc etc. Not to mention he is the 10th highest ALL TIME scorer for England at the age of only 26. He is 2 goals behind Alan Shearer and only 20 goals behind Bobby Charlton (who played 106 times!).

Also, when you criticize him for playing against B Level opposition at International Level, you obviously fail to realise that International is just that. Another level. There are no easy games.

Do we all bang on about how poor Ronaldo has been at International Level? Nope.


Your argument is invalid really.

I suggest sticking to Cricket.

Do we all bang on about how poor Ronaldo has been at International Level? Nope.

Maybe because he hasn't been? Really the 2010 world cup was his only 'poor' tournament.

so rooneys poor tournys were 2006 and 2010- and he was injured in both.

lets not become little englanders guys and not realise what is going on in other countries. the reality is portugese fans were calling for ronaldos head(just like swedish do with ibraham and argentina did with messi). they didnt even want him in the team. His impact is very similar to rooneys for his respective team- both are actually pretty decent in most games- but fans expect way to much from both of them..
He is playing because he is the best we have in that position.

lets worry about the other places shall we

Most of Rooney's goal are penalties or Lineker-esque tap-ins.

Wouldnt start for Barcelona or Real Madrid!

what has starting for barca or real madrid got to do with anything.(even though i am sure he would get in real).. this is about the england team- not barcelona! i am really struggling to understand what line you trying to spin here!

if you think rooney is about tap ins then you havent seen more than 10 minutes of rooney playing

Walcott is more dangerous on the ball than Rooney is, for internationals!

Rooney is good at finding gaps, but he can't dribble for his life!

cant he-for his life i am struggling to work you out pal..have you ever seen him play?

Josiah Maiestas wrote:Walcott is more dangerous on the ball than Rooney is, for internationals!

Rooney is good at finding gaps, but he can't dribble for his life!

That's because wingers dribble, and strikers score goals! Stop talking rubbish mate, you're making yourself look daft!

Are all the Rooney haters now eating their words.......???

I'm not sure that goal really proves the doubters wrong.

You mean all the people on this thread that said he never delivers in the big games?? Well today was a big game, and guess what, he scored the winner! What more does he have to do???

no but this game has only backed up what i think in my mind- people are banging on about him as if he let england down-why???? he is only one of 11 players.. he was as good/bad as any other attacking player bar gerrard..

He also needed the run out for match fitness sake

I don't doubt Rooney, but that goal doesn't really convince his critics either way. Looked rusty tonight.

Graeme Swann's Cat wrote:I don't doubt Rooney, but that goal doesn't really convince his critics either way. Looked rusty tonight.

To be fair,he hasn't played since the middle of May. Hopefully he'll be a bit sharper against Italy. The Italians will be hoping he's still rusty......

Aye, but until he does play sharper the critics can have their opinions.

Not withstanding the reason he hasn't played so far is because of a moronic move.

Well, we got there in the end, and Wayne scored the winner.... a nod in on the goal line. Some may say that's just his sort of range, having fluffed a similiarly simple opportunity in the first half, but from six yards out.

But credit to the bloke... he was Johnny-On-The-Spot and that's what matters. Kudos to him for being there and of course, I'm well pleased that England won the match. I thought Wayne did OK for a bloke who lacked match fitness and sharpness. No disciplinary problems, either, thank goodness. All in all, a reasonable return to the fold.

I've read through the articles on this thread and of course, I expected the criticisms for my comments..... fair enough, we're all entitled to an opinion <shrugs> and there will always be those who view their hero through rose-tinted glasses. Again, fair enough. My dad told me that, as a boy, he used to worship Jimmy Greaves who scored 44 goals for England in 57 appearances, at not far off a goal a game (what would a player like with a record like that be worth to England today, eh, Mobilemaster 8..?). But Greavsie was dropped from the 1966 world cup team and was replaced by a 'nobody' who then popped up and scored a hat-trick in the final.

It's a funny old game, isn't it..?



It's good that we have these discussions about (arguably) England's best player because that's all part of the fun. I was disappointed by Mobilemaster8's comment which went along the lines of "I don't like your opinion so don't write here any more, go and write about cricket instead".

MM.... My opinion is what it is, and I have every right to make it, whether you like it or not, my friend. Just because somebody doesn't agree with what you think doesn't give you the right to tell anybody what they can and cannot say or where they should and shouldn't post.

So.......... England progress to the Quarter Finals, as group winners, to face Italy. Hurrah and huzzah..!! The ante is upped a notch and of course, I'd be delighted if England won, even with another tap in at the far post. I don't care where they go in from, as long as they do. Tap ins are fine by me.

Wayne should be a little sharper, and a little more match fit for the next game. Expectation is rising (this happens when England get out of group stages) but Italy will be a tougher nut to crack. England expects, and all that.

Bring it on.


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A mixed bag from Rooney last night - looked off the pace for the first 20 minutes or so but his passing and movement improved a bit once he settled into the game. Occasionally gave the ball away cheaply but at other times linked reasonably well with the midfield.

Got into good positions in the box on about 3 or 4 occasions, and probably should have converted the first headed chance, but was in the right place at the right time for his goal.

Hopefully will be better in the QF - I got the impression at times that he was trying too hard to impose himself on the game rather than letting things happen and getting involved in the right parts of the pitch.

As an aside, I thought Welbeck didn't do much and that Carroll offered more in his sub appearance, so might be inclined to start him next game.

If Rooney hadn't tapped that in last night and won England the game, and they had went out, his performance would have been ripped to shreads.

The Galveston Giant wrote:If Rooney hadn't tapped that in last night and won England the game, and they had went out, his performance would have been ripped to shreads.

That's the nature of football, I'm afraid. He accepts the praise and glory and the big money, he has to take the slings and arrows when they come his way, too.

It's not all gravy.

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