Boring Boring Spain

They were very lucky.

Spain had loads of the ball yes, but they just passed it about in midfield and hit long range efforts.

Croatia had 2 peno shouts including one dangerous tackle than I have seen players walk for in the past. Plus Croatia had the 2 best chances.

They played half the game with no forwards.

Honestly one of the most dire games I have seen and it was all Spains fault. I really do hope they get knocked out even if England aren't playing them.

Spain - Minus David Villa = Half the side.

Why are they playing midfielders as strikers ? they have decent strikers in the squad .

certainly missing villa, although torres has looked good, so it suprises me although ive only seen spains game against ireland, so i cant comment on performance. i really do think, like barcelona, theyve been found out and id fancy a strong defensive set up by england could beat them, id still rather we faced italy though if we get through!

KingKenny7Heaven wrote:Why are they playing midfielders as strikers ? they have decent strikers in the squad .

They only did that in the first game, the last two games they've played Torres up front.

This style of Spain is nothing new, it is exactly how they won the World Cup, they wore the team down and scored one goal and it was enough. They looked poor against Croatia because Croatia didn't bother to sit back, they pressed them, but Croatia's problem was once they won the ball back they didn't use it very well.

Crimey wrote:

KingKenny7Heaven wrote:Why are they playing midfielders as strikers ? they have decent strikers in the squad .

They only did that in the first game, the last two games they've played Torres up front.

Yes but when Torres went off with the game still to be won or lost they replaced him with a midfielder not another striker , they had Lorente on the bench i just thought it was a bit negative

ian_jamsie wrote:They were very lucky.

Spain had loads of the ball yes, but they just passed it about in midfield and hit long range efforts.

Croatia had 2 peno shouts including one dangerous tackle than I have seen players walk for in the past. Plus Croatia had the 2 best chances.

They played half the game with no forwards.

Honestly one of the most dire games I have seen and it was all Spains fault. I really do hope they get knocked out even if England aren't playing them.

Spain - Minus David Villa = Half the side.

Spain - minus David Silva = Half a side

Personally i agree with a previous comment that Spain have been found out. I felt Croatia should have won last night, and were very unfortunate not to. I really believe a good balanced team with equal amounts of resolve and flair will beat Spain.......that team being Germany!

And anyone who believe's that England have a chance of winning this tournament, are out of their minds! Any team that continues to play sub-standard players such as Milner, G Johnson, Young and even Carroll, are not winning anything.
Obviously i'd love England to win it, but we give away Sunday League goals far too often.....

Who exactly is it that have "found Spain out"?

I'm yet to see them beaten, they've scored 6 goals and conceded one so I'd suggest that whoever has found them out is keeping it a pretty close secret.

With regards to the taking off of Torres and bringing on a midfielder being negative quite clearly it wasn't because as you say the game was there to be won or lost and they won.

I love watching Spain attack, they actually attempt to pass it to a team mate and create goals as opposed to humping it in and hoping it bounces in their favour.

I don't think the defence is brilliant but then again other than Italy who appear to use eight defenders I'm not sure any team has looked brilliant defensively.

I'd suggest a team that has lost 1 game in their last 16 tournament games isn't entirely lucky.

[quote="Hibbz"]Who exactly is it that have "found Spain out"?

I'm yet to see them beaten, they've scored 6 goals and conceded one so I'd suggest that whoever has found them out is keeping it a pretty close secret.

When i say found out, i mean they are not slicing through teams so much these days(a poor Irish team aside). They couldn't break down the Italians, struggled against Croatia. They only just beat China coming into the tournament! So when they come up against better teams than Italy and Croatia i.e Germany and possibly even France. I and others feel their luck will run out....

Tell me again when it was that Spain ever did slice through teams?

Last world cup they failed to score more than two goals in any match and in the previous Euro's they only did so against Russia (twice).

It's exactly as Crimey says nothing has changed.

Some people may find it boring that's a personal choice but there's little evidence to suggest they are any weaker than the last two tournaments and even less evidence that they've been found out.

sparky marky wrote:

ian_jamsie wrote:They were very lucky.

Spain had loads of the ball yes, but they just passed it about in midfield and hit long range efforts.

Croatia had 2 peno shouts including one dangerous tackle than I have seen players walk for in the past. Plus Croatia had the 2 best chances.

They played half the game with no forwards.

Honestly one of the most dire games I have seen and it was all Spains fault. I really do hope they get knocked out even if England aren't playing them.

Spain - Minus David Villa = Half the side.

Spain - minus David Silva = Half a side

Personally i agree with a previous comment that Spain have been found out. I felt Croatia should have won last night, and were very unfortunate not to. I really believe a good balanced team with equal amounts of resolve and flair will beat Spain.......that team being Germany!

And anyone who believe's that England have a chance of winning this tournament, are out of their minds! Any team that continues to play sub-standard players such as Milner, G Johnson, Young and even Carroll, are not winning anything.
Obviously i'd love England to win it, but we give away Sunday League goals far too often.....

Spain minus David Silva are not half the team, that is ridiculous. Don't forget, he played one game at the last world cup and was dropped for a very good player in Navas, who kept him out of the side and was instrumental in them winning the world cup. He also happened to score last night. Not to mention Iniesta, Xavi, Alonso, Alba, I could go on and on. I'm not saying Silva isn't an important part, but to say they are half the side with him missing is a little OTT imo.

I don't know why people are saying they have been 'found out'. Everyone knows how Spain play, its no secret, its just unbelievably hard to stop it. They are a very good side and barely got out of 1st gear last night. They are missing a trick in not playing Llorente, who is a superb player and will give them a genuine target man up front, who is technically gifted, a natural goal scorer who will also throw his weight around in the box.

Hibbz wrote:Tell me again when it was that Spain ever did slice through teams?

Last world cup they failed to score more than two goals in any match and in the previous Euro's they only did so against Russia (twice).

It's exactly as Crimey says nothing has changed.

Some people may find it boring that's a personal choice but there's little evidence to suggest they are any weaker than the last two tournaments and even less evidence that they've been found out.

Of course, you're absolutely right.......silly me for having an opinion!

Sillier you for not having the conviction to back it up.

A lot of people on here are slagging off how Spain play. One must remember this is how they were brought up to play football. Unlike other countries where the biggest strongest school boys got on the team playing on full size pitches, these guys were learning how to control the ball, pass it to a team mate and control the game if possible. Considering that they are the current European and World Champions, who is anyone to say it is not a successful way to play the game? I for one admire how they play.

Hibbz wrote:Sillier you for not having the conviction to back it up.

Back it up........??? It's an opinion! My life isn't ruled by stats. I say it as i see it. Sometimes right, sometimes wrong!
And don't call me silly.......it's not polite!

martyr_94 wrote:

sparky marky wrote:

ian_jamsie wrote:They were very lucky.

Spain had loads of the ball yes, but they just passed it about in midfield and hit long range efforts.

Croatia had 2 peno shouts including one dangerous tackle than I have seen players walk for in the past. Plus Croatia had the 2 best chances.

They played half the game with no forwards.

Honestly one of the most dire games I have seen and it was all Spains fault. I really do hope they get knocked out even if England aren't playing them.

Spain - Minus David Villa = Half the side.

Spain - minus David Silva = Half a side

Personally i agree with a previous comment that Spain have been found out. I felt Croatia should have won last night, and were very unfortunate not to. I really believe a good balanced team with equal amounts of resolve and flair will beat Spain.......that team being Germany!

And anyone who believe's that England have a chance of winning this tournament, are out of their minds! Any team that continues to play sub-standard players such as Milner, G Johnson, Young and even Carroll, are not winning anything.
Obviously i'd love England to win it, but we give away Sunday League goals far too often.....

Spain minus David Silva are not half the team, that is ridiculous. Don't forget, he played one game at the last world cup and was dropped for a very good player in Navas, who kept him out of the side and was instrumental in them winning the world cup. He also happened to score last night. Not to mention Iniesta, Xavi, Alonso, Alba, I could go on and on. I'm not saying Silva isn't an important part, but to say they are half the side with him missing is a little OTT imo.

I don't know why people are saying they have been 'found out'. Everyone knows how Spain play, its no secret, its just unbelievably hard to stop it. They are a very good side and barely got out of 1st gear last night. They are missing a trick in not playing Llorente, who is a superb player and will give them a genuine target man up front, who is technically gifted, a natural goal scorer who will also throw his weight around in the box.

You need to check your facts sunshine. David Silva played in 2 group games at the 2010 World Cup. Jesus Navas only played in 2 group games(hardly instrumental in them winning it) and only came on in the final after 60 mins where he did very little to change the game.

sparky marky wrote:

Hibbz wrote:Sillier you for not having the conviction to back it up.

Back it up........??? It's an opinion! My life isn't ruled by stats. I say it as i see it. Sometimes right, sometimes wrong!
And don't call me silly.......it's not polite!

So you'll accept that your opinion that Spain used to "slice through teams" was wrong yes? And as a result you'll accept that your opinion that Spain "have been found out" was unfounded, not necessarily wrong I guess only time will tell that but unfounded?

Absolutely not! My opinion is that Spain do not dismantle teams quite like they used to in the past. Opposing teams tend not to chase them around quite so much these days, instead they tend to play a more zonal style and keep the banks of defenders and midfielders tighter and more organised and playing on the break,thus making it more difficult for Spain to break them down. Have you noticed when Spain have struggled to penetrate a teams defence, they start to run out of ideas,. A bit like Barcelona against Chelsea.
Maybe i could have phrased my original comment better?? It's all subjective isn't it......
I really believe that should they come up against a tactically well organised side with great balance and a little flair(Germany) they will come unstuck.
Only time will tell.....

Well I'm not sure it's subjective as to whether a team used to dismantle/slice through others I'd guess the score would decide this but I'll take your point that when Spain come up against a team who are better they may well lose.

sparky marky wrote:

martyr_94 wrote:

sparky marky wrote:

ian_jamsie wrote:They were very lucky.

Spain had loads of the ball yes, but they just passed it about in midfield and hit long range efforts.

Croatia had 2 peno shouts including one dangerous tackle than I have seen players walk for in the past. Plus Croatia had the 2 best chances.

They played half the game with no forwards.

Honestly one of the most dire games I have seen and it was all Spains fault. I really do hope they get knocked out even if England aren't playing them.

Spain - Minus David Villa = Half the side.

Spain - minus David Silva = Half a side

Personally i agree with a previous comment that Spain have been found out. I felt Croatia should have won last night, and were very unfortunate not to. I really believe a good balanced team with equal amounts of resolve and flair will beat Spain.......that team being Germany!

And anyone who believe's that England have a chance of winning this tournament, are out of their minds! Any team that continues to play sub-standard players such as Milner, G Johnson, Young and even Carroll, are not winning anything.
Obviously i'd love England to win it, but we give away Sunday League goals far too often.....

Spain minus David Silva are not half the team, that is ridiculous. Don't forget, he played one game at the last world cup and was dropped for a very good player in Navas, who kept him out of the side and was instrumental in them winning the world cup. He also happened to score last night. Not to mention Iniesta, Xavi, Alonso, Alba, I could go on and on. I'm not saying Silva isn't an important part, but to say they are half the side with him missing is a little OTT imo.

I don't know why people are saying they have been 'found out'. Everyone knows how Spain play, its no secret, its just unbelievably hard to stop it. They are a very good side and barely got out of 1st gear last night. They are missing a trick in not playing Llorente, who is a superb player and will give them a genuine target man up front, who is technically gifted, a natural goal scorer who will also throw his weight around in the box.

You need to check your facts sunshine. David Silva played in 2 group games at the 2010 World Cup. Jesus Navas only played in 2 group games(hardly instrumental in them winning it) and only came on in the final after 60 mins where he did very little to change the game.

Yeh your right Navas didn't play as much as my memory serves me, although he was certainly one of the form players there, along with Pedro who was the other guy who played quite a bit. The point still stands however that Silva is not the be all and end all of Spain, for one they Navas and Pedro on the bench who could do just as well imo.

spains record against the top 25 nations since winning euro 2008

12-3-5

spains record against the top 25 nations since winning the 2010 world cup

3-2-4

Facts are Spain have a golden generation of players who have won the Euro's and the World cup. Can't argue against that and allot of their players are either entering or are in their prime. It will take a brilliant performance to beat them imo, with Germany the only stand out side that imo are capable of beating them, yet fell short against them in the two last major tournaments.

Personally I could just watch Xavi play all day - I don't find it boring whatsoever. I can't think of anything to say that doesn't sound entirely vacuous, so what the hell; I just think he's the best thing ever!

JamesLincs wrote:spains record against the top 25 nations since winning euro 2008

12-3-5

spains record against the top 25 nations since winning the 2010 world cup

3-2-4

Friednly results mean sweet FA. Costa Rica drew with Spain recently. Are they as good as Spain? Friendlies are used to experiment. Spain don't tend to have a lot first teamers out in friendlies.

martyr_94 wrote:

sparky marky wrote:

martyr_94 wrote:

sparky marky wrote:

ian_jamsie wrote:They were very lucky.

Spain had loads of the ball yes, but they just passed it about in midfield and hit long range efforts.

Croatia had 2 peno shouts including one dangerous tackle than I have seen players walk for in the past. Plus Croatia had the 2 best chances.

They played half the game with no forwards.

Honestly one of the most dire games I have seen and it was all Spains fault. I really do hope they get knocked out even if England aren't playing them.

Spain - Minus David Villa = Half the side.

Spain - minus David Silva = Half a side

Personally i agree with a previous comment that Spain have been found out. I felt Croatia should have won last night, and were very unfortunate not to. I really believe a good balanced team with equal amounts of resolve and flair will beat Spain.......that team being Germany!

And anyone who believe's that England have a chance of winning this tournament, are out of their minds! Any team that continues to play sub-standard players such as Milner, G Johnson, Young and even Carroll, are not winning anything.
Obviously i'd love England to win it, but we give away Sunday League goals far too often.....

Spain minus David Silva are not half the team, that is ridiculous. Don't forget, he played one game at the last world cup and was dropped for a very good player in Navas, who kept him out of the side and was instrumental in them winning the world cup. He also happened to score last night. Not to mention Iniesta, Xavi, Alonso, Alba, I could go on and on. I'm not saying Silva isn't an important part, but to say they are half the side with him missing is a little OTT imo.

I don't know why people are saying they have been 'found out'. Everyone knows how Spain play, its no secret, its just unbelievably hard to stop it. They are a very good side and barely got out of 1st gear last night. They are missing a trick in not playing Llorente, who is a superb player and will give them a genuine target man up front, who is technically gifted, a natural goal scorer who will also throw his weight around in the box.

You need to check your facts sunshine. David Silva played in 2 group games at the 2010 World Cup. Jesus Navas only played in 2 group games(hardly instrumental in them winning it) and only came on in the final after 60 mins where he did very little to change the game.

Yeh your right Navas didn't play as much as my memory serves me, although he was certainly one of the form players there, along with Pedro who was the other guy who played quite a bit. The point still stands however that Silva is not the be all and end all of Spain, for one they Navas and Pedro on the bench who could do just as well imo.

I have to say, my comment about David Silva was a bit flippant. He is a great player though......a loss to any side...whoever they are.

sparky marky wrote:

martyr_94 wrote:

sparky marky wrote:

martyr_94 wrote:

sparky marky wrote:

ian_jamsie wrote:They were very lucky.

Spain had loads of the ball yes, but they just passed it about in midfield and hit long range efforts.

Croatia had 2 peno shouts including one dangerous tackle than I have seen players walk for in the past. Plus Croatia had the 2 best chances.

They played half the game with no forwards.

Honestly one of the most dire games I have seen and it was all Spains fault. I really do hope they get knocked out even if England aren't playing them.

Spain - Minus David Villa = Half the side.

Spain - minus David Silva = Half a side

Personally i agree with a previous comment that Spain have been found out. I felt Croatia should have won last night, and were very unfortunate not to. I really believe a good balanced team with equal amounts of resolve and flair will beat Spain.......that team being Germany!

And anyone who believe's that England have a chance of winning this tournament, are out of their minds! Any team that continues to play sub-standard players such as Milner, G Johnson, Young and even Carroll, are not winning anything.
Obviously i'd love England to win it, but we give away Sunday League goals far too often.....

Spain minus David Silva are not half the team, that is ridiculous. Don't forget, he played one game at the last world cup and was dropped for a very good player in Navas, who kept him out of the side and was instrumental in them winning the world cup. He also happened to score last night. Not to mention Iniesta, Xavi, Alonso, Alba, I could go on and on. I'm not saying Silva isn't an important part, but to say they are half the side with him missing is a little OTT imo.

I don't know why people are saying they have been 'found out'. Everyone knows how Spain play, its no secret, its just unbelievably hard to stop it. They are a very good side and barely got out of 1st gear last night. They are missing a trick in not playing Llorente, who is a superb player and will give them a genuine target man up front, who is technically gifted, a natural goal scorer who will also throw his weight around in the box.

You need to check your facts sunshine. David Silva played in 2 group games at the 2010 World Cup. Jesus Navas only played in 2 group games(hardly instrumental in them winning it) and only came on in the final after 60 mins where he did very little to change the game.

Yeh your right Navas didn't play as much as my memory serves me, although he was certainly one of the form players there, along with Pedro who was the other guy who played quite a bit. The point still stands however that Silva is not the be all and end all of Spain, for one they Navas and Pedro on the bench who could do just as well imo.

I have to say, my comment about David Silva was a bit flippant. He is a great player though......a loss to any side...whoever they are.

I agree he is a loss. I think he's playing far better than he was a couple of years back, obviously playing in a team of a higher standard than Valencia has helped his development. I also think the dip in form of Pedro this season has taken the pressure off him somewhat, allowing him to play the game how he wants to play it.

spains line up vs england november 2011

Casillas (Reina 46), Arbeloa, Pique, Sergio Ramos (Puyol 74), Jordi Alba, Busquets (Torres 64), Alonso, Xavi (Fabregas 46), Iniesta (Santi Cazorla 74), Silva (Mata 46), Villa

Thomond wrote:

JamesLincs wrote:spains record against the top 25 nations since winning euro 2008

12-3-5

spains record against the top 25 nations since winning the 2010 world cup

3-2-4

Friednly results mean sweet FA. Costa Rica drew with Spain recently. Are they as good as Spain? Friendlies are used to experiment. Spain don't tend to have a lot first teamers out in friendlies.

Do you think the teams they play only play their first team? Spain still PLAY the same way, even in friendlies! They lost to Argentina 4-1, Portugal 4-0(they don't like losing to them)....christ, they even lost to England....

JamesLincs wrote:spains line up vs england november 2011

Casillas (Reina 46), Arbeloa, Pique, Sergio Ramos (Puyol 74), Jordi Alba, Busquets (Torres 64), Alonso, Xavi (Fabregas 46), Iniesta (Santi Cazorla 74), Silva (Mata 46), Villa

I think the fact there were six substitutions including the goalkeeper should give you a clue as to how seriously they were taking the result of this game.

They lost to Argentina straight after the WC, I don't think they cared! In crunch time, they have shown an ability to deliver. Friendly wins for any country mean little. Sure Ireland were 15 games unbeaten going into the Euros. Did us great!

martyr_94 wrote:Facts are Spain have a golden generation of players who have won the Euro's and the World cup. Can't argue against that and allot of their players are either entering or are in their prime. It will take a brilliant performance to beat them imo, with Germany the only stand out side that imo are capable of beating them, yet fell short against them in the two last major tournaments.

Agreed! Although i pretty sure Xavi, Alonso and a few others are beyond 30. Not that it's a big deal really, but father time is against them. Have they got the same quality to replace them??

But Germany will be the next team to beat in years to come. They promoted a host of Under-21's prior to the 2010 World Cup and have kept the team almost identical ever since. They are still very young overall and will grow together.

Sorry, but they were found out last night.

Also Spains goal in my opinion was offside. However I have a feeling the rules have changed again since the last time I gave a s***.

How a player can be a yard off from a through ball, claim to be inactive and score 2 seconds later is beyond me.

2 blatent pens that would have been given if the shoe had been on the other foot.

Also the foul in the first half was a foot off the ground and with studs showing. A proper leg breaker.

That is what worries me most about playing Spain. England will need to get the odd decision and we aren't going to get a sniff. If we get through the group, I can still see us losing tonight.

The Ramos challenge in the box wasn't a pen imo, he got the ball first and that is a fact, it is clear on replay.

ian_jamsie wrote:
How a player can be a yard off from a through ball, claim to be inactive and score 2 seconds later is beyond me.

This ruling has been in force for all of ten years, I don't get how people are still confused by it.

navas looked atleast inline with the ball, so he's onside

JamesLincs wrote:navas looked atleast inline with the ball, so he's onside

People are on about when he ran through initially, but like I said - they changed the rule 10 years ago to allow this.

Now wether you agree with it or not is a different debate.

Alot of tripe on here I see. Spain have been found out? Really? By who? Did I miss something last night? They won (albeit playing badly) right?

David Silva makes Spain tick? He's not half the player that Xavi and Iniesta is and never will be. Take off the Premier League hat son.

It appears commonplace on this site to slag off the greatest international side of it's generation. Quite sad really..

People in glass houses and all that. Ah well some good exciting hoof-ball to look forward to tonight. I do wonder what the fans on the Spanish, German and French forums are writing about our world beaters?

FreekShow wrote:Alot of tripe on here I see. Spain have been found out? Really? By who? Did I miss something last night? They won (albeit playing badly) right?

David Silva makes Spain tick? He's not half the player that Xavi and Iniesta is and never will be. Take off the Premier League hat son.

It appears commonplace on this site to slag off the greatest international side of it's generation. Quite sad really..

People in glass houses and all that. Ah well some good exciting hoof-ball to look forward to tonight. I do wonder what the fans on the Spanish, German and French forums are writing about our world beaters?

It is just ego defense (clutching at straws) to convince one self they are beatable, people do it with Barca too.

Footballs football and anything can happen, Spain have probably had their anomalous result in tournament football at a good time vs the Swiss in the WC.

Ent wrote:

JamesLincs wrote:navas looked atleast inline with the ball, so he's onside

People are on about when he ran through initially, but like I said - they changed the rule 10 years ago to allow this.

Now wether you agree with it or not is a different debate.

do you mean when the ball was played to iniesta? i dont see anything wrong with the goal

JamesLincs wrote:

Ent wrote:

JamesLincs wrote:navas looked atleast inline with the ball, so he's onside

People are on about when he ran through initially, but like I said - they changed the rule 10 years ago to allow this.

Now wether you agree with it or not is a different debate.

do you mean when the ball was played to iniesta? i dont see anything wrong with the goal

Yes at that point Navas was 'offside' according to a version of the rule implemented a decade ago, it was a perfectly legit goal.

Personally I feel its a rubbish rule as Croatia successfully trapped Navas 'offside' and were punished for it, but that is another debate entirely.

tbf its not spains fault they were able to push 2 players forward to break up their offside trap

JamesLincs wrote:tbf its not spains fault they were able to push 2 players forward to break up their offside trap

Didn't say it was, its a completely legit goal and good play from Spain - I just feel the ruling is fundamentally flawed if teams are attempting to play an offside trap, its another debate entirely though.

it was in response to you saying its unfair on croatia. its cruel obviously, but spain were either good/fortunate enough to find themselves with 2 players in that position