Premiership Players to Watch 2012 - 2013?

First topic message reminder :

I know its early days yet as preseason training has pretty much only just began.

Which players will you be keeping a close eye on their development...bid to regain form or form after returning from injury etc

From a Newcastle start...aside from looking forward to seeing what division we'll actually be in...im looking at:

FH/Fb - Catterick. See if he can really bring out his undoubted ability. i hope to see him at Fh.
Sh/FH - Hodgson - Where will we utilize his creativity and skills...but light frame (or will deano bulk him up a bit and use him at 10 with Catterick)
LH Prop - Shiels - can he continue his developement as a strong LH prop...surely under Wells / Deano its a massive yes.

Back row: Huge changes here...Lipman and York having been brought in. Will York provide a powerful ball carrying presence at the back of the scrum. No.8 is a position Deano knows a bit about. Will Lipman give us some extra breakdown aggresion.
I also hope Welch, and Wilsons devlopement is continued. They played ALOT of rugby last season...maybe too much for young lads. Welch could be a real quality 7, and Wilson had some blinding games from 6 /8. I'd like to see him put a stone on.
Then there is Joe Robinson...at 18/19 a man mountain of a cumbrian at 6. Got a few games last season...how will Deano utilise his talents...

ScarletSpiderman wrote:Joe Ajuwa (London Welsh) - Big soli.........oh hang on better wait and see what happens first.

Right just thought I can put it now.

I really want to see big Joe Ajuwa putting some of the established wingers in the Jeff on their rumps. Gutted that Alesana has left Tigers, as that collision is one I would have loved to have seen. Joe played a bit in the Magners, and was pretty impressive for what was basically a box of a winger. I think once people get over the LW hate, he will be one of those people enjoy watching.

I'll be interested to see how the LW centre Tongah'uia gets on, he seemed to be a real ball carrying unit at 12 but I'm unsure whether that was his skill and power or because of some dodgey Championship defending. Be interesting to see how he gets on in the AP against the likes of Allen, JTH and Hacksaw Sam. It will also be interesting to see where Henson slots into that midfield should he sign, Ross was tactically excellent for LW in the Championship so would Henson oust him from 10? Maybe they'll move Tongah'uia along to 13 and Henson in at 12 but then that's not where Henson likes to play and if he isn't focussed on his rugby and in London...

I see Waldouck has signed for Saints.

Be interesting to see how he goes...was one of the hopefuls a few years ago....

For each club, based either on improving England's squad or just guys who I think will add a lot to the Premiership I am looking forward to seeing:

Bath - Stephen Donald for me. I still think he is a class act and in a new set up at Bath could have a stormer of a season.
Exeter - Watisoni Votu. Have only seen a couple of clips of him but he looks electric. Think he will be a really potent weapon for them, with Camacho causing havoc on the other wing.
Gloucester - Sione Kalamafoni. Think he will be a great replacement for Strokosch. He had a great World Cup and comes really highly rated. Twelvetrees from an England perspective, of course.
Harlequins - George Robson. I really think he should be in the England side. Superb in the line-out, but also adds a physicality that Parling doesn't, particularly in defence.
Leicester - Tom Youngs. Looked superb in the midweek side for England. Hartley is a fine player, but Youngs looks like he has a lot more potential. I hope to see him starting ahead of George Chuter this season.
London Irish - Setaimata Sa. Again, haven't seen a lot of him, but have tried to watch as much Super League as possible since he was announced. 12 was a position where we struggled last season and Brian Smith was very excited at his signing. At 6 ft 3 and 16 and a half stone he should get us over the gainline. Apparently he is a great offloader as well.
London Wasps - Ashley Johnson. One of the best signings of the off-season. An absolute beast who rampages all across the field. Haskell-Poff-Johnson should be a class back row.
London Welsh - Hudson Tonga'uiha. Again, I haven't seen a lot of him, but he comes with a good reputation. Welsh will need physicality - I don't think they were the most powerful of sides in the Championship last year.
Northampton - Luther Burrell. I am actually a big fan of his. I know he didn't get much of a look in at Sale and some Saints fans don't see him as a good enough replacement for James Downey, but I think they will be pleasantly surprised. Very physical and a great ball carrier. In 2010/11 he was brilliant for Leeds both times I saw them play Irish.
Sale - Richie Gray. Could well be the best player in the division if he brings his international form to the domestic scene. A superb signing by Sale.
Saracens - Jamie George. Another hooker who I hope can push on this season. Obviously Brits is one of the best players in the league and John Smit has bags of experience, but George looks like he has a load of potential that needs to be unleashed.
Worcester - Josh Matavesi. Looked good whenever I saw him for Racing Metro. Very abrasive but also skilful and with a good kicking game. Could be an important player for Wuss.

George Robson. I really think he should be in the England side. Superb in the line-out, but also adds a physicality that Parling doesn't, particularly in defence.

As seen when he got run over from 2m out by the opposition scrum half in the second mid week game? I'd be more interested to see if Sinckler could progress at Quins as he looks to be a real beast and seems to have good technique in the scrums.

Robson is not better than Parling.....his lineout work is not as strong, hardly ever see him threaten the opp throw and he doesn't carry as well in the tight.

I'm not quite sure when he's displayed this "physicality", I must have missed this game.

Harlequins - George Robson. I really think he should be in the England side. Superb in the line-out, but also adds a physicality that Parling doesn't, particularly in defence.

I was a little confused by that too Geordie! He works hard but certainly isn't a physical lock, that would be Kohn.

formerly known as Sam wrote:

George Robson. I really think he should be in the England side. Superb in the line-out, but also adds a physicality that Parling doesn't, particularly in defence.

As seen when he got run over from 2m out by the opposition scrum half in the second mid week game? I'd be more interested to see if Sinckler could progress at Quins as he looks to be a real beast and seems to have good technique in the scrums.

In a couple of seasons time Sinckler will be knocking on the first team door, especially with Marler away now he should get a bit more game time.

Snickler is a TH no?

Sgt_Pooly wrote:Snickler is a TH no?

He was for the U20's, Cowan-Dickie was the loosie.

Yeah that's what I thought. I was hoping we'd see a Marler/Brooker or Gray/Sinckler front row. That would be pretty tasty once they were all up to speed.

I see Andreas Masi has signed for Waps.

I actually think thats a crackin signing...

Wasps are going to be a different proposition this season...

Robson's defence tends to be better in the wider areas (similar-ish to the cover tackles Croft puts in). A big deal is usually made over them because you wouldn't normally expect a lock to make it. Robson is strong when paired with Kohn. Currently any other pairing with Quins seems to be relatively weak.

Kohn is a monster though and makes up for Robsons somewhat lightweight appearance (i dont actually know what his official weight is)

Could Kohn do a job for England?

I can't wait till next season, a lot of clubs look in considerably better nick and everyone has some class young players coming on

Ironically Yappy...we'll be stronger aswell and yet we're down...

A season of scoring tries for fun should be good for you guys as well Geordie, and you can say thank you to LW for keeping you seat warm when you move past them next season.

Have you lost anyone because of the relegation? I can't remember hearing anything which points to a strong squad ethic to stick with the team.

yappysnap wrote:A season of scoring tries for fun should be good for you guys as well Geordie, and you can say thank you to LW for keeping you seat warm when you move past them next season.

Have you lost anyone because of the relegation? I can't remember hearing anything which points to a strong squad ethic to stick with the team.

Wasn't it Saint that went down, and kept hold of everyone only to come up and look like a real force again a season later. With Dean Richards coming in, maybe a season in the Championship is ideal, as it will give him a chance to experiment a bit with what he has available etc, and they should still win comfortably.

Yes Yappy would be nice.....whats a try?

Scarlet, our problem has been a continuation of poor management. Gary gold had us improving rapidly....he just ran out of time. Now with deano we will be strong.

On a side note...bath could be interesting with Gold there. He will undoutedly improve them and we should hopefully see the best of Attwood.and Fearns etc.

GeordieFalcon wrote:Yes Yappy would be nice.....whats a try?

With Lawson & Gopperth at half back, you'd better like watching push-over tries!

On a serious note, your pack should be far too strong for the other sides. Winning the Championship isn't a foregone conclusion when compared to when Saints & Quins dropped down, as neither had the play-offs, but you really should win it, build some confidence and get back to the Jeff in decent knick.

Hk I dont think any of the falcon fans really think its going to really easy. Certainly Bristol etc are strong teams....but we do think we should just have enough.

Deano has publicly said he doesnt fancy Gopperth as his type of fh...and he will most likely play at 15 where he looked good at the end of last season.

This could mean young catterick getting a start at ten...

GeordieFalcon wrote:

This could mean young catterick getting a start at ten...

That's still reliant on Lawson getting him the ball though...

Richards tended to like his backs to be brutally efficient, I can't imagine slow ball and a lack of organisation at the base will be tolerated for very long.

GeordieFalcon wrote:
Deano has publicly said he doesnt fancy Gopperth as his type of fh...and he will most likely play at 15 where he looked good at the end of last season.

This could mean young catterick getting a start at ten...

Will Richards even be picking the team though? Personally I expect Gopperth to still be the starting FH, but it would be nice to see Catterick given a go.

as main man I would hope so Dave..who else would pick it? The groundsman?

The Head Coach?

The DoR picks the side. Can you see Matt O'Conner picking the Tigers side over Cockerill? Or John Kingston picking it over Conor O'Shay?

For Sale the players to watch are

Lee Imiolek - Was neck and neck with Joe Marler as a LH through the age groups but whilst Marler has moved on, Imiolek has been dogged by poor scrumagging technique which has held him back. Great about the park, this is a make or break season.

Henry Thomas - Saxons Tight Head who can match any tight head around the park and has hands worthy of a fly half. But this season will be all about improvement in the scrum.

Richie Gray - can he take International form into the Premiership.

Hendre Fourie - missed all of last season through injury and will be like a new signing rotating with Dave Seymour at 7.

James Gaskell - had a poor season last year after being heralded by the RFU as a future super star. Needs to step up physically.

Danny Cipriani - up against it vs the consistent Nick Macleod. Could go either way.

Will Addison - scored some tries last season from both wing and outside centre that no many are capable of. People bang on about Trinder. This guy will be better.

Tom Brady - Scored some scorchers from 14 but needs to become more tactically aware defensively if he is to play for England.

Rob Miller - the Premiership's best Full Back last season didnt get a look in with England during the summer but is now in the Saxons. Key will be if he can improve under the high ball and defensively because with ball in hand and hitting the line, he's better than May, Brown and Foden. Or was last season just a one off!?

Miller better than May Brown and Foden? Bold shout for a bloke who has only had 1 great season

Ball in hand better than May?!?!

I think somebody is seriously overrating Rob Miller. Brown was the easily the best FB around in England last season.

Sgt_Pooly wrote:Ball in hand better than May?!?!

I think somebody is seriously overrating Rob Miller. Brown was the easily the best FB around in England last season.

I agree squire, voice of reason.

JAM -
Imiolek - would love to see this guy progress, could be a future boon to England.
H.Thomas - same as Imiolek, but hopefully a more rapid progression - we need decent TH cover for Cole.
Grey - we all know about him.
Fourie - I've always liked, never got a good run for England. Good signing.
Cipriani - only one to watch to see if his head is right. I still think he is a better 15 than 10.
Miller - Agree, showed fantastic form last season. Though he is still behind Foden, Brown and Goode for the 15 shirt.

Please note I wasnt suggesting Miller a current better fullback than Brown, Goode and Foden - think he has raw potential to be better. But at the moment his kicking out of hand, his defence and performance under high ball all inferior at the moment.

On better ball in hand than May - based on last season without a doubt - did you see his tries? Not putting May down here - a fantastic prospect too but fact is Miller had a better season and was the most potent fullback. In fact he was the most potent player full stop.

Not many Sale games were televised I don't think it's difficult to judge the performance of players. The ones watching the most games are also the most biased.

I think somebody is seriously overrating Rob Miller. Brown was the easily the best FB around in England last season.

Sgt, if you're talking just AP form there isn't much between Brown, Miller or Goode. Perhaps a fag packet at most. If you're talking the season as a whole then Brown's HEC performances put him out in front. I'm very interested to see how Miller will do in the HEC. He does need to up his defence and high ball reliability though.

Kyle Eastmond (IF FIT)

Have to disagree there Jam, May is electric and as we seen on numerous occasions can score from anywhere against anyone. Miller is a great runner with serious gas but doesnt come close to May.

I purposely didn't put AP Sam as I think Brown put some of his best performances in when playing HC rugby which is a step up.

Only this season will tell if Miller is actually that good. Loads of players struggle from 2nd season syndrome. There will also be much more footage and tape of Miller now, so teams will be able to analyse his strengths and weaknesses better

JAM204 wrote:

On better ball in hand than May - based on last season without a doubt - did you see his tries? Not putting May down here - a fantastic prospect too but fact is Miller had a better season and was the most potent fullback. In fact he was the most potent player full stop.

I my be bias too, but whilst Miller had a fantastic season there is no way he is better ball in hand than May - did you see May's tries last season? The try against Quins shows what he can do and he ripped up the SA BaBas (albeit not a great side).

It looks increasingly likely May will be a wing, based upon the signings Glaws have made, so he may not be competition for Miller for much longer.

Lots of potential in the Sale side but they need to step up and prove their worth IMO.

I may be the only one...but whenever i see Gaskells name mentioned i think immediately of Chris Jones - a very good and consistant Club player who couldnt decide if he was a back rower of Second rower.

I really dont see Gaskell making at impact in the national set up....

GF, everytime I see Gaskell's name I think liability. Extremely lightweight, poor technique in the tackle and he often rushed out of the defence to cover the first two issues which leaves gaps for the opposition to exploit. I'm not the biggest fan of bulking up just to be big as bigger players aren't always better but Gaskell badly needs to put on at least a stone and generally toughen up. At the minute Croft and Wood have similar strengths and then some with few of Gaskell's defensive frailties.

HKC, I like May and think the guy is phenominal attacking threat but let's face it the choice to move him to wing or 13 is a good one. At 15 he is very easy to target particularly on a wet and windy day (as Flood did ruthlessly at WR). Not to sure on his tackling either but I do agree that ball in hand he is probably the most exciting back three player in the AP.

GeordieFalcon wrote:I may be the only one...but whenever i see Gaskells name mentioned i think immediately of Chris Jones - a very good and consistant Club player who couldnt decide if he was a back rower of Second rower.

I really dont see Gaskell making at impact in the national set up....

Completely agree. He is a decent club player, but is far too leight weight for International level. He's behind a host of other lock/6's, most of whom still have many years ahead of them.

Coming back to Jam's point about May & Miller, we're probably coming from different angles here. Miller is a better passer, but May is a better runner.

I remember one of Miller's tries in particular where he rounds May. Miller top try score in Prem last season and most weren't running them in, I'll tell you that.

Seriously rate May and may even turn out to be a hotter prospect than Miller - but on tries last season, Miller was better ball in hand.

Yes Miller a better passer and generally May a more fluid runner - but as I said, Miller's tries weren't run-ins!

"Seriously rate May and may even turn out to be a hotter prospect than Miller - but on tries last season, Miller was better ball in hand.."

I think May is a much better prospect than Miller, I doubt you'll find many neutrals that agree with you Jam tbh, you've got your Sale tinted glasses on I think.

I see May as a 13 or 14 - should be in the England reckoning this season

On Gaskell - definitely a liability last season - poor distribution off the top of the line out too. He still kept Richie Vernon out of the side though - hope to see both players improve.

As you all say, big season for Sale - if they can do themselves justice in the HC (by not getting battered) and finish 6th in Prem then it's a great season for Sale.

I think a lot comes from lack of TV exposure. If Miller played for Gloucester and May Sale......

Conclusion - May a seriously hot prospect, no denying - probably more so than Miller (in that I see May's future at 13 or 14, not 15). My point - plenty of talent at Sale that finished 6th last season and is not talked about - either on here or by the pundits. Dont dismiss them is all im saying!

Shame it turned into a Miller vs. - I merely posted a list of 'ones to watch at Sale' this season. Feel free to discuss and happy to take your points

Haha...fair comments fella, big season for Sale.