Premiership Players to Watch 2012 - 2013?

by Geordie Wed 20 Jun 2012, 11:25 am

First topic message reminder :

I know its early days yet as preseason training has pretty much only just began.

Which players will you be keeping a close eye on their development...bid to regain form or form after returning from injury etc

From a Newcastle start...aside from looking forward to seeing what division we'll actually be in...im looking at:

FH/Fb - Catterick. See if he can really bring out his undoubted ability. i hope to see him at Fh.
Sh/FH - Hodgson - Where will we utilize his creativity and skills...but light frame (or will deano bulk him up a bit and use him at 10 with Catterick)
LH Prop - Shiels - can he continue his developement as a strong LH prop...surely under Wells / Deano its a massive yes.

Back row: Huge changes here...Lipman and York having been brought in. Will York provide a powerful ball carrying presence at the back of the scrum. No.8 is a position Deano knows a bit about. Will Lipman give us some extra breakdown aggresion.
I also hope Welch, and Wilsons devlopement is continued. They played ALOT of rugby last season...maybe too much for young lads. Welch could be a real quality 7, and Wilson had some blinding games from 6 /8. I'd like to see him put a stone on.
Then there is Joe Robinson...at 18/19 a man mountain of a cumbrian at 6. Got a few games last season...how will Deano utilise his talents...

by Rory_Gallagher Fri 22 Jun 2012, 12:34 pm

Isn't Gibson a little tall for 7? 6 foot 5 is pretty huge. He could play second row at that height.

by AsLongAsBut100ofUs Fri 22 Jun 2012, 12:46 pm

Rory_Gallagher wrote:Isn't Gibson a little tall for 7? 6 foot 5 is pretty huge. He could play second row at that height.

Sin will tell you that's not big enough tho, Rory! Wink

by formerly known as Sam Fri 22 Jun 2012, 12:49 pm

Richie McCaw is 6ft2 there's not that much in it. It's how you play more than what size you are, Neil Back proved that time and time again.

by Poorfour Fri 22 Jun 2012, 12:56 pm

formerly known as Sam wrote:Richie McCaw is 6ft2 there's not that much in it. It's how you play more than what size you are, Neil Back proved that time and time again.

I'm not sure I agree. Especially with the modern interpretations of the ruck laws, I think there is a disadvantage in being too tall as an openside. You have to be able to get over the ball quickly in a strong stance and resist being pulled off your feet. That is significantly harder for someone of 6'5" to do than someone a couple of inches taller. They are usually either too slender to maintain a stance or too bulky to move quickly enough. It's noticeable that most of the really tall back rowers aren't great at the breakdown - Croft is a good example. Great at lots of things, but not so much at rucking.

by SirBurger Fri 22 Jun 2012, 1:11 pm

formerly known as Sam wrote:Wow, it really is all change down at the MadStad. First team something like?

1.Corbs
2.Buckland
3.Griffiths
4.Skivington
5.Garvey
6.Smith
7.Gibson
8.Trevarinus (sp?)
9.O'Leary
10.Humphries
11.Tacki
12.Sa
13.Joseph
14.Ojo
15.Homer

I would prefer:

Corbs
Paice
Halavatau
Evans
Garvey
Gibson
Treviranus
Hala'Ufia

O'Leary
Humphreys
Tagi
Sa
JJ
Topsy
Homer

by formerly known as Sam Fri 22 Jun 2012, 1:16 pm

Poorfour, Croft lacks the bulk to shift people from a ruck situation but he is excellent and getting in quickly and disrupting the opposition ball or protecting his own. Gibson is similar but with additional dog, reminiscent of Wood at Saints in a way, he's tall and lanky but good at the breakdown.

by DaveM Sat 23 Jun 2012, 1:11 am

SirBurger wrote:
I would prefer:

Corbs
Paice
Halavatau
Evans
Garvey
Gibson
Treviranus
Hala'Ufia

O'Leary
Humphreys
Tagi
Sa
JJ
Topsy
Homer

I'd like to see Geraghty at 10 and Shingler at 12, at least in some games. Homer will take the kicking pressure off Shane. I think LI will finish top 6. If they could get themselves a high quality TH they'd be a real threat to the top 4.

With Wasps (players), Bath (coaching), Sale (players), Gloucester (players and coaching), Worcester (coaching) and Newcastle (coaching) all making changes for the better I'm really looking forward to next season.

by propdavid_london Mon 25 Jun 2012, 11:41 am

Sam - arent Ansboro and Hape still at Irish?
I guess they would still be competing for 1st team spots.

by propdavid_london Mon 25 Jun 2012, 11:45 am

Quins -
I would love to see Wallace kick on from last season.
Chisholm as others have mentioned, needs to work on defenc.
Clegg - in my mind has 1 more season to proove he can hack it. If he is not careful he may find Botica taking his back-up to Nev role.
Would be great to see Hopper kick on aswell - he had some really nice touches last season. Loved the reverse cornish pass.

Apart from Botica I dont think there are many new contracts!

by Guest Mon 25 Jun 2012, 11:52 am

propdavid_london wrote:Sam - arent Ansboro and Hape still at Irish?
I guess they would still be competing for 1st team spots.

Hape has left for Montpellier

by formerly known as Sam Mon 25 Jun 2012, 12:01 pm

Aye Hape is gone and I think Ansbro may end up playing second fiddle to Joseph next season.

by propdavid_london Mon 25 Jun 2012, 3:36 pm

Ah, cheers guys - think I may have lost track of the in's and outs for the upcoming season.

by Guest Mon 25 Jun 2012, 3:42 pm

propdavid_london wrote:Ah, cheers guys - think I may have lost track of the in's and outs for the upcoming season.

Try this link:

http://rugby-transfers.blogspot.co.uk/p/aviva-premiership-transfers-table.html

by **Ozzy3213** Mon 25 Jun 2012, 4:38 pm

I see from those who've put a London Irish team up that they have either Griffiths or Halavatau in the 3 jersey. I am not convinced by either. A tightheads first job is to scrummage, and neither of these inspire me with confidence in that regard. Personally I think the Tongan international Halani Aulika is likely to be a better bet.

by formerly known as Sam Mon 25 Jun 2012, 4:40 pm

Agree on that front Ozzy. Just how many tightheads have LI recruited ahead of next season?

by **Ozzy3213** Mon 25 Jun 2012, 4:52 pm

Aulika and Griffiths. Halavatau was already there, but is a converted 8 who has only been propping for a couple of years. Good carrier but unless we have a tighthead who can take the hit (as Cole does for England), then Corbs is never going to be effective on the other side. Am praying that Aulika is that man, as if we can get a grip in the set piece then I think we have a chance of a decent season.

by beshocked Mon 25 Jun 2012, 5:16 pm

mawhis wrote:
propdavid_london wrote:Ah, cheers guys - think I may have lost track of the in's and outs for the upcoming season.

Try this link:

http://rugby-transfers.blogspot.co.uk/p/aviva-premiership-transfers-table.html

Sorry to be the bringer of bad tidings but I know that list is incomplete when it comes to Saracens.

In

Lorenzo Romano
Alistair Hargreaves
Chris Ashton
Nick Fenton-Wells

Out

Hayden Smith
Michael Tagicakibau
Marcus Watson
Derick Hougaard (according to wiki page, probably likely he's gone)
Also Deon Carstens left mid season.

by wasps Mon 25 Jun 2012, 8:17 pm

As a Wasps fan, there was a lot to shout about last season, so I'm definitely looking for me this coming year.

If we can avoid a few of the injuries that we had last year, I think we can surprise a few people.

Scrummaging will never be our strong suit, but the majority of our pack is beginning to look good.
We've signed a new TH, and a new Hooker, so our pack may be something like:

Payne
Rhys Thomas
Staibano
Wentzel
Palmer
Launchbury
Haskell
Ashley Johnson

With the likes of Lindsay, Fillipo, Poff, Sam Jones, Billy V on the bench, it's quite a good looking pack

Simpson is obviously a quality scrum half, and Berry is no slouch as cover.
With both Nicky Robinson and Stephen Jones playing 10 we have very good experienced fly halves for the first time in years.

I've no idea what our first choice centre partnerships will be, however, with Waldouck, Elliott Daly, Bell, Mayor and others, we have some good options and combinations.

Our back 3 is a little short on numbers, but Varndell, Wade, Southwell, Bell Jr and Wallace are all good options.

Our academy players picked up invaluable experience last season, and performed amazingly well, as such, I really am convinced that we can have a good year this time, providing we don't fall foul of the same injury jinx as last year

by Rory_Gallagher Mon 25 Jun 2012, 9:00 pm

The Wasps back row is something to be feared for next year. If they can split the donkey work among themselves, a combination of Haskell, Johnson and Vunipola is going to be one of the most physical and explosive back row combinations around.

6) Haskell
7) Johnson
8) Vunipola

Seriously, if those guys can find a way of working together and sharing the workload (Haskell gets through a lot of work nowadays) these guys are going to tear teams apart. Johnson would be the smallest at 6 foot 1 and 110kg. Tiny.. Whistle

by wasps Mon 25 Jun 2012, 9:05 pm

I can't see Vunipola being first choice just yet.

There's a lot of Wasps fans who think that Launchbury's best position is 6, and that he should be starting there.
Ashley Johnson has been signed as an 8 apparently.
Although we've paid a lot to have Haskell back, most Wasps fans think that Poff should still be first choice 7.

That makes it awkward to know our first choice options.

Haskell will obviously being able to cover all back row positions, although he says that he is now best as a 7.

Given that Wasps presumably bought Johnson and Haskell to actually play them, rather than bench them, I think that the starting back row will be:
6 Haskell
7 Poff
8 Johnson

Having said that, Launchbury was one of the major successes of last year.
We've also signed Tom Palmer, and I presume he's going to play, as will Marco Wentzel.

It's a hell of a nice problem to have.... for once.

by DaveM Mon 25 Jun 2012, 9:13 pm

Wasps will be a lot better this year. Not enough centres (although I guess Davies is an option at 12) and back three players to get you through the season though. And the Welsh 10's are a bit similar for my liking.

I think Sam Jones is an excellent prospect. If you can't get him game time then I'm sure lots of other clubs would like him.

I'd expect you to play one of Wentzel and Palmer in most games. Haskell wil be first choice, but which position.....?

by Rory_Gallagher Mon 25 Jun 2012, 9:28 pm

Can't Launchbury play second row?

by wasps Mon 25 Jun 2012, 9:29 pm

Is Haskell likely to need resting after England duty?
If so, I assume he'll have to miss the start of the season.

That'll mean a backrow consisting of 3 from Launchbury, Poff, Johnson, Jones, Billy V.
If Palmer also needs resting, then Launchbury could start at lock with Wentzel.

Having to blood the academy players last year was both a blessing and a curse.
Obviously, I'm very happy at the experience they would have got, but they're likely to want to play more this season which could cause some problems.

by wasps Mon 25 Jun 2012, 9:31 pm

Launchbury can, and possibly will, play 2nd row.

However, Wentzel was our best signing of last year, and was a master of the lineout. Therefore he'd always be my first choice.

Palmer has been signed for a reason, and I can't see the Wasps coaching team leaving him on the bench.

As such, I expect our first choice 2nd row to be Wentzel / Palmer.
It does mean that we can have 2 flankers on the bench, which will give us mobile cover for both the back row and 2nd row.

by Rory_Gallagher Mon 25 Jun 2012, 9:35 pm

How much do you rate Vunipola? He looks like a complete monster.

by wasps Mon 25 Jun 2012, 9:56 pm

He's a total wrecking machine, who nearly always breaks the gain line and is rarely stopped one-on-one.

However I think that at the moment he struggles to keep that power and intensity going for a full 80 minutes.
As such, I don't think he's a first choice starter just yet.
He is a major impact player though, and if we can have both him and Johnson in each match day squad, I can see us making lots of metres of the backs of scrums and rucks.

Having said that, 20stone at 19 years old, and he's already showing major potentially so I don't think it'll be long before he's one of the first names on the team sheet.

by DaveM Mon 25 Jun 2012, 10:30 pm

Well he's too big, but the new strength and conditioning team should help with that. I think Jones is the better prospect.

Doesn't Wentzel have a career threatening injury? I doubt you'll want to overplay him and risk aggrevating that. There's no way two locks in their thirties will be selected for every game, you'll want them to last all season.

by wasps Mon 25 Jun 2012, 10:47 pm

Realistically, they're different types of players, for different circumstances.

Billy's weapons are with ball in hand.
Jones appears to have a more rounded skill set, but I'm not sure what his best position is.

he may be a 7, but both Poff and Haskell are probably ahead of him there.

I think we'll do a lot of rotating in the forwards, but at least we appear to have a squad capable of it

by Rory_Gallagher Mon 25 Jun 2012, 10:48 pm

DaveM wrote:Well he's too big, but the new strength and conditioning team should help with that. I think Jones is the better prospect.

Doesn't Wentzel have a career threatening injury? I doubt you'll want to overplay him and risk aggrevating that. There's no way two locks in their thirties will be selected for every game, you'll want them to last all season.

Why is he too big? Does it affect his speed/fitness too much? If it doesn't, he isn't too big IMO.

by Geordie Mon 25 Jun 2012, 10:57 pm

Yeah i think Launchbury, Wentzel and Palmer will all take their turns...which is not a bad thing as they will keep fresh..not play too many games..etc

by ChequeredJersey Mon 25 Jun 2012, 10:58 pm

Good year next year for a lot of teams. Might make a thread on it

by DaveM Mon 25 Jun 2012, 11:52 pm

Yes, to date Vunipola's struggled to have an 80 minute game. Fixable though.

by propdavid_london Tue 26 Jun 2012, 9:18 am

mawhis wrote:
propdavid_london wrote:Ah, cheers guys - think I may have lost track of the in's and outs for the upcoming season.

Try this link:

http://rugby-transfers.blogspot.co.uk/p/aviva-premiership-transfers-table.html

Brilliant - thanks

by beshocked Tue 26 Jun 2012, 10:10 am

Looks like Wasps have a potentially good 2nd row and backrow but what's the situation in the frontrow?

Also who are the options at full back. I know you have Southwell but other than him?

I personally think Wasps could potentially put out a good XV but could struggle against the best sides.

by formerly known as Sam Tue 26 Jun 2012, 10:20 am

Beschocked Wasps have signed Sale's England under 20 flyhalf/fullback Tommy Bell and have their own academy product Jack Wallace. They will both offer good 15 cover for Wasps, I'd imagine Wallace will be higher in the pecking order having got more AP experience under his belt with Bell offering more bench and A League cover.

by beshocked Tue 26 Jun 2012, 10:38 am

Thanks Sam.

How do you rate the Wasps side?

Do you think they can make a positive impact?

by wasps Tue 26 Jun 2012, 11:11 am

It would be good to know how a more neutral fan feels about our chances. Afterall, I thought we were gonna have a great season last year, but that didn't happen.

Our weakness usually front row, but Dai Young knows that and is trying to strengthen.... But Tim Payne its still first choice LH.

We're a little thin on quality centres, and wingers in general.

by ChequeredJersey Tue 26 Jun 2012, 11:14 am

My opinion is that Wasps first choice team is pretty good next season but could be exposed if there are any injuries in the midfield or front row

by AsLongAsBut100ofUs Tue 26 Jun 2012, 11:27 am

Exeter Chiefs

Players in:

Carl Rimmer (PR, Cornish Pirates)
Jack Yeandle (HK, Doncaster)
Alex Brown (PR, Doncaster)
Damian Welch (LK, Scarlets)
Dean Mumm (LK, Waratahs)
Kai Horstmann (N8, Worcester)
Will Chudley (SH, Newcastle)
Ian Whitten (CT, Ulster)
Watisoni Votu (W, Fiji 7s)

Players out:

John Andress (PR, Worcester)
Chris Bentley (LK, retired)
Peter Short (LK, retired)
Patrick Phibbs (SH)
Bryan Rennie (CT, Bristol)

Once again, I'm not sure that sure that Exe will have any 'stand-out players to watch' - it'll be another massive team effort whichever way the results go.

Recruitment has centred on strengthening our depth in a couple of positions. The loss of Shorty and Bentos in the boiler-room could have been a significant hit, but the recruitment of Dean Mumm and Damien Welch should bolster our 2nd row. Our depth at prop has been boosted, with Alex Brown an additional tighthead resource to minimise the effect of Jon Andress's departure, and Carl Rimmer brought in to bolster loosehead resource. Kai Horstmann should fit in well with the existing backrow resources, and Jack Yeandle will be looking to learn from Chris Whitehead, Neil Clarke and Si Alcott. Ian Whitten is a direct replacement for Bryan Rennie, Will Chudley comes in for Pat Phibbs, and Watisoni Votu is a 'project' in the sense that he is new to the XVs game, but there is hope that he can become a cross between Naqer and Nadolo in time. The good news is that Nacho Mieres is not required by Argentina for the upcoming 4Ns/Rugby Champs. And the ligind that is the Budgie will trundle our for brief cameos for yet another year, with his 40th birthday looming in December notworthy

Key to how we go will be our ability to replicate the style of play that served us so well post Christmas last season - our attacking gameplan allowed us to be far more of a threat with ball in hand and difficult to defend against. It's going to take a massive effort to maintain the same rate of progress as we have enjoyed in the last two seasons, but a top half AP finish, a decent showing in the Heino, at least a semi-final in the 'A' league, and the warmest welcome for visiting fans and players, and I'll be more than happy.

Chief

by formerly known as Sam Tue 26 Jun 2012, 11:29 am

There were some positive boosts for Wasps last season. The emergence of Davies as a quality 12 option, youngsters stepping up and the announcements of Palmer and Haskell returning.

The backrow of Haskell, Poff, Johnson should be horrible to play against and there are good options in lots of areas of the field. They are a bit thin on the ground in terms of cover but they are a bit thin on the ground in terms of cash so that is to be expected.

If they opt to sacrifice the LV Cup and the Amlin they could finish near or in the HEC qualy spots if there is no injury curse. If they choose to compete in the Amlin then I think the HEC qualy spots will be out of the question as their squad will be spread to thin.

by Sgt_Pooly Tue 26 Jun 2012, 7:10 pm

Aslongasus....do you see many of your youngster getting any game time this coming season?

I was really impressed with Luke Cowan-Dickie in the U20's, looked a very strong scrummager and a threat with ball in hand. Slade, Hill & Jones look like they have great futures too.

by SirBurger Tue 26 Jun 2012, 9:55 pm

Ozzy3213 wrote:I see from those who've put a London Irish team up that they have either Griffiths or Halavatau in the 3 jersey. I am not convinced by either. A tightheads first job is to scrummage, and neither of these inspire me with confidence in that regard. Personally I think the Tongan international Halani Aulika is likely to be a better bet.

Aulika may well be a better bet, but I am only going on what I have seen. Halavatau was doing very well in the 3 shirt at the end of the season and beasted both the Worcester and Gloucester looseheads. Considering it is only his 3rd season playing as a prop I would imagine that he will continue to improve in this regard - he really is a player of considerable potential. Hopefully Aulika can do a job as well and Ion can rediscover some form. Cai Griffiths on the other hand is one of the least inspiring signings of the season.

by AsLongAsBut100ofUs Tue 26 Jun 2012, 10:16 pm

Sgt_Pooly wrote:Aslongasus....do you see many of your youngster getting any game time this coming season?

I was really impressed with Luke Cowan-Dickie in the U20's, looked a very strong scrummager and a threat with ball in hand. Slade, Hill & Jones look like they have great futures too.

Sgt_P, Possibly some LV= gametime for those guys and definitely a heap of 'A' league game time, altho they'll most likely be out on loan with Albion and Pirates as well. I'd add in Nowell, Arnott and Carrick-Smith to your list, I expect them all to be competing for starting berths in 2-3 years time, i just hope that they are patient enough to hold on for what could become a great side Chief

by Guest Wed 27 Jun 2012, 11:35 am

As predicted, the Brett Stewart stuff is nonsense, as confirmed by Brian Smith:

There is no truth in it. I have not spoken with Brett Stewart or his agent and the numbers that have been bandied around are laughable.

http://www.getreading.co.uk/sport/rugby/london_irish/s/2115975_brian_smith_says_london_irish_have_room_for_one_more_big_signing

we do have room for another big signing though, just not that big!

by Moorsman Wed 27 Jun 2012, 3:08 pm

I'm with AsLongAs on what he says re Exeter youngsters. It's going to be interesting to watch how the new guys buy into the Chiefs culture. Particularly Dean Mumm who is probably has the biggest International profile of anybody recruited by Rob Baxter. Josh Tatupu will be fully fit again as will Craig Mitchell so plenty of options but we'll need them with Heino rugby added to the AP. Very Happy

by HongKongCherry Wed 27 Jun 2012, 8:20 pm

jeffwinger wrote:From a Gloucester perspective, a lot of our youngsters have come through in the last few years and are now quite well known, the likes of Burns, Sharples, Trinder, May etc. There are a few more in the pipeline though, some will be known from U20s.

Ryan Mills - probably starts the season as second/third choice 10 and can also play very well in the centres, I'd have him on the bench to cover 10/12 and gain some good experience in the league. A very impressive game for Glos in the LV vs Cardiff last season, and some big performances through the national age groups. He's been on the fringes for a season or 2 now and should hopefully step up. He's a big lad, probably ~15stone already.

Dan Robson - like Mills has impressed for the U20s and been earmarked for quite a while. Hoping the experienced Jimmy Cowan will really help his development as a scrumhalf. Size may cound against him at the top level but he's feisty and very quick. Solid skills, all the basics covered, and a sharp eye for the gap.

Shaun Knight - young tighthead, will hopefully share the role 50/50ish with Rupert Harden this season. Massive guy, known by his fellow players as 'the cube' due to being as wide and deep as he is tall. Matson boy with the right sort of nasty in him, something the Glos pack have been missing. Had a bit of time this season and looks good in the scrum already. Decent all round game otherwise.

Tom Savage - looked very impressive in a few games at 6 in the latter half of this season, can also play in the second row. Already been spoken of as a potential future captain (some even suggesting giving it to him very soon). Big defender, old school style 5/6, may push the ageing Alex Brown for a start sooner than expected. Will have quite a job to win the 6 shirt on a regular basis due to other options, I'd try and tie him into the second row.

Koree Britton - hooker, again lots of experience with the U20s, been known about for a while. Massive in the loose, solid in the set piece so far. Good prospect, but will probably struggle for starts in the league this season unless management decide against replacing Andy Long in the squad. Could come into the equation if a replacement is not signed and the risky Edmunds signing goes bad.

Agree with much of this. Mills should hopefully get a decent amount of game time as he looks like he'll be a very good player. I don't feel Dave Lewis is going to get any better, so until Cowan arrives I'd very much like to see Robson starting.

For me the one player who I really expect to shine is Tom Savage. Considering his lack of experience I thought he was outstanding last season. -m still unsure where he'll be best placed, but one thing isn't in doubt is his ball carrying ability which is excellent.

Finally, I'm still not convinced by Britton. He is good in the loose and his scrummaging looks good enough, but his lineout throwing is woeful and doesn't seem to have improved in the last few years. I'd be very much in favour of him being loaned out next season to get game time and hopefully learn to hit a cow's backside with a banjo!

by HongKongCherry Wed 27 Jun 2012, 8:50 pm

I should add Sione Kalamafoni to the list. He's not a product of the academy which this thread seems to be focusing on, but I strongly believe from what I've seen of him that Glaws have pulled off a huge coup in signing him. At 6'5 and 19 stone he's a real beast!

by Geordie Wed 27 Jun 2012, 9:37 pm

Its about all players really Sam...who your looking forward to seeing. Just so happens most seem to be watching the England kids.....

by Cumbrian Wed 27 Jun 2012, 10:24 pm

I have been waiting to see how Knight would come through, glad to see he is making good progress. He spent some time in NZ didn't he?

Sorry to say this, but I agree with HKC Britton's set piece is anything but solid. His lineout throwing in the JWC was dreadful. Not ythat he can't work on it.

I have been intrested to see how Savage would get on since I saw his impressive highlghts reel on Youtube.

by Geordie Wed 27 Jun 2012, 10:34 pm

Its concerning me a little with comments on hookers are becoming awsome in the loose not bad in the scrums...erm sod the loose initially. Hookers are front rowers...i want them scrummaging rhinos and hitting rucks and mauls.

I do think Hookers are looked at to do a bit in the loose...but lets get the basics first.

Im not even sure hartley fits that bill at the moment...but is not doing us any harm being there...

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