Englands Second Row Dilema

Well its one of the big areas of question to come out of the tour.

Where do we go with our engine room?

Palmer
Botha
Parling
Robson
Kohn
Lawes
Launchbury
Garvey
Attwood
Slater
Skivington
Kitchener
Hudson

Any ive missed?

Lawes, Attwood, Garvey, parling

Anyone care to describe Launchbury to me? I have no idea what mould he is in.

I think if Deacon gets a few games net season before the AI's should be considered. Obviously not going to set the World on fire but is very good scrummager,can run a lineout and would bring the grunt everyone has been asking for in the second row.

Also think Palmers performance yesterday has cemented his place for the net game and that the second row situation isnt as dire as people thought and the front 5 physicality was rectified yesterday.

Wi11 wrote:Anyone care to describe Launchbury to me? I have no idea what mould he is in.

Launchbury is more in the enforcer role. He carries well and is quite athletic having played 6 at Wasps a lot this season. Overall, a solid, hardworking player.

James Craig at Saints.

I think the 4 for the aumtumn will be Parling, Palmer, Lawes and Launchbury. Nothing wrong with that group.

What is Launchberry like in the lineout, he sounds like another Lawes. Mind you if we had Wood and Croft, we could get away with two athletic enforcer types of that nature. The tackle count would rise somewhat.

I wasn't very convinced by Parling this tour, but I thought Palmer was a massive step up from Botha.

Lawes, Palmer, Launchbury, Garvey. Though i guess it sort of depends whether we play Croft as it's probably short of a top-level line-out operator. Garvey runs LIs I believe but it's a helluva step up for a guy.

Hmm, now i'm confused, we're not blessed right now are we?

I don't think we'll have a particular problem in the second row in the autumn.

DaveM wrote:I don't think we'll have a particular problem in the second row in the autumn.

Fingers crossed, it probably requires one of the bruisers to be in some form.

Well my current guess at the Australia game second row would be Lawes and Palmer, with Croft at 6. If we wanted more physicality we could bring Launchbury in and move Lawes to 6 but have him pack down at 4 in the scrums (apparently he adds serious weight). If we are worried about the line-out swap Parling for Palmer (or even bring Deacon in - now Deacon and Lawes would be a powerful second row scrummaging unit, and Deacon brings decent physicality in the loose).

I think we've got several good combinations available. Hopefully we'll pick something sensible.

Are Deacon and Palmer ones for the future though? Both are over 30 and are unlikely to make it to the next World Cup. Unless they're another Simon Shaw!

We don't have to have settled on the England second row for 2015 almost three and a half years before the tournament. Of course we need to build, and SL is very good at giving young players opportunities, but here I think we can afford to wait and see if players like Craig, Matthews or Barrow push on over the next two years.

Zander wrote:Are Deacon and Palmer ones for the future though? Both are over 30 and are unlikely to make it to the next World Cup. Unless they're another Simon Shaw!

And?

Should we not build a winning team now...and just make the changes as we roll on...ie if deacon is the man...play him until his performance slips or another takes the shirt off him...?

Why get another Simon Shaw when there's already one out there. That's right, bring back Shaw.

DaveM wrote:.........Hopefully we'll pick something sensible.

England????

You never know.....?

lawes, parling, launchberry. its looking better than i thought!

I know. I am always hopeful. But scarred by the recent past. You know, mate. Scarred.
(think Jamie Noon)

That was always going to take some getting over.

That still amazes me.

But back to the question about the second row, I agree with the bloke who said we should bring back Simon Shaw............

Well if Brad Thorn (unique player I know) can do it why not Shaw or Deacon?

Not Deacon again please, he was a pretty average international player first time round. He was solid in the lineout and the scrum, but his carrying game was nonexistent and although competent he wasn exactly an animal defensively or at the breakdown, he's not going to be dramatically better after a year off injured and I can't see his game noticeably developing at the age of 32.

I posted against picking Deacon in the MJ era, but the big challenge for England will be balancing 4-8, and in particular 4-6. I can imagine Deacon being quite helpful at that.