Springboks selections for Rugby Championship?

Ok, I have calmed down a little after yesterday’s disappointing performance by the Springboks, there are exactly 8 weeks left before The Rugby Championship. That gives Heyneke Meyer time to contemplate his selections.
These are the Players I believe that are at the quality international rugby requiresor will step up to that level if given a chance.

Props: Beast Matwarira, Coenie Oosthuizen, Jannie du Plessis
Hookers: Bismarck du Plessis, Adriaan Strauss
Locks: Andries Bekker, Juandre Kruger, Eben Etzebeth
Backrow: Schalk Burger, Juan Smith, Willem Alberts, Duane Vermeulen, Jean Deysel, Pierre Spies
Half backs: Ruan Pienaar
Flyhalf: Johan Goosen,
Centres: Frans Steyn, Jean de Villiers,
Wings: Bryan Habana, JP Pietersen, Lwasi Mvovo, Willie le Roux, Francois Hougaard
Fullbacks: Patrick Lambie, Gio Aplon, Morne Steyn

If I had to make up a match day 22 from these players it would look like this:

1. Beast Matwarira
2. Bismarck du Plessis
3. Jannie du Plessis
4. Andries Bekker
5. Eben Etzebeth
6. Schalk Burger
7. Juan Smith (Long term injury)
8. Willem Alberts
9. Ruan Pienaar
10. Johan Goosen (long term injury)
11. Bryan Habana
12. Frans Steyn
13. Jean de Villiers
14. JP Pietersen (can cover 13)
15. Patrick Lambie (can cover 12)

Impact bench.

16. Coenie Oosthuizen (to cover 1 and 3) (doubtful that he will be back before the four nations)
17. Adriaan Strauss (to cover 2)
18. Juandre Kruger (to cover lock)
19. Pierre Spies (to cover backrow)
20. Francois Hougaard (to cover 9,11 and 14)
21. Gio Aplon (to cover 11,14 and 15)
22. Morne Steyn (to coever 10 and 15)

So we have a conundrum with Juan Smith, Johan Goosen and Coenie Oosthuizen, who should come in, who has impressed you?

Hi Blitong,

Firstly congrats on the tour win. I know you were disappointed with the lack of an 80 min game but there were parts where you guys looked unplayable...admittedly against a team that are not top level.

I won'r profess to know as much as you about who should play where but it looks like you've answered two of my questions.

You need another 10, Goosen looks a great talent to me and i think he needs a go, but if he's not back, surely Lambie is still a better bet than Steyn?

I also thought you needed Alberts at 8. He's a brillianr BSF but looks to me like a world class 8 in the making. All the carrying with a flanker's work-rate, incredible. I too would have him at 8 and Burger at 7. I think Smith would be a fantastic player to bring back, but I would be tempted to keep Coetzee there as I think he would complete them with a high work-rate at the breakdown.

In fact, I think other than that I completely agree with your team! Nothing to report here then :-)

Hi hood, thanks mate, I think it was a very good test series, England used a number of new combinations, and I think Lancaster got some answers, the draw perhaps not what he wanted bt they ended the winning spree.

I agree with you that Lambie should be the caretaker 10 until Goosen comes back.

you are right about juan Smith, he won't be back until next year so your 6,7,and 8 makes sense.

Spies needs space to perform, he cannot perfrom without two big physical flankers.

biltong, am I not right in saying that the new Rugby Championship runs from late August to early October?

How do you know you'll have Pienaar available? The tournament falls outside the two global international windows during June and November. I thought that Ulster, being in the Northern Hemisphere, are not obliged to release international players during the Rugby Championship. Only the Six Nations and the June and November test windows.

Obviously Contepomi is unlikely to feature; http://www.planet-rugby.co.za/story/0,25883,16024_7833911,00.html

I wonder whether the SARU have made contact with Ulster; I hope to hell we're playing hardball with them. Our second pre-season friendly is on the first weekend of the Rugby Championship, our first competitive game is on the same weekend as Round 3. He's meant to play a whole season of NH rugby, a whole summer of test rugby, then another whole season of NH rugby every year? It's insanity.

If SA are to make a realistic chance of competing with NZ they have to put their forward pack, McCaw, Cane or whatever great openside they play on the back foot.

If they swap Beast for Coenie, bring in Bekker & Schalk I think they will be able to do it. A pack of

Coenie, Bismarck, Jannie, Etzebeth, Bekker, Schalk, Alberts, Spies

is freightening in terms of their size and strength. Its not a pack chosen specifically for strength as I think it would be near first choice anyhow but it would be near 940kg.

You have ball carrying options all over the park in Schalk, Bismaark & Alberts. Lineout options in Bekker and Spies and Bismarck & Schalk will supply a good contest on the floor.

In the backs Pienaar & Lambie should start at 9 or 10... give them the reins for the ARG match and see what they can do.
I would also be inclined to bring in Hougaard on the right wing and play JP Pietersen at 15. He's done it before and has the all round game to not be exploited in the position.

A backline of

Pienaar, Lambie, Habana, Frans Steyn, JDV, Hougaard & JP Pietersen.

You would have Pienaar, lambie & Frans controlling the terrirtory, Lambie & Frans will give SA the creative edge, JP Pietersen & Frans (again) for the route one option and Habana & Hougaard giving SA the explosive pace to finish off chances.

IMO its a vey balanced backline.

Its quite clear that Morne can't start.. if he can't kick he's pretty ineffective. He's a very poor defender, often gets beat and doesn't have a lot of gas so putting him in at 15 would make little sense.

You can play Kirchner at 15 but he's pretty average and Taute and Joe Pietersen are too inexperienced. Lambie I feel would get exploited for pace ala the Lions match in Ellis Park by the pace of NZ & AUS.

You could also argue that Frans could move to 15 and you could bring in Goosen at 12 but again, he's too inexperienced for a well oiled team like NZ, blood him in the AIs later. Also a 10 12 combo at the moment of Lambie & Goosen would be a little lightweight.. someone like SBW would be aching to run down their channel.

Not sure why youre even considering Lambie at 10. Not gonna happen. Steyn is there for good this year unless he completely loses it. Meyer is an ultra conservative type who seemingly thinks the Bulls are the be all and end all of all rugby and where there are gaps, he will look at others.

After watching him yelling down that stupid walkie talkie (80's?) through the entire match with a bright red face all the time, stopping only to grin at his cohorts next to him (albeit briefly) when Petierson scored then jump back on it looks a bit concerning in the psycho stakes to be honest.

I mean whats he yelling? Is there 80 minutes worth of information that he forgot to dispatch to the team beforehand? Are his people really passing all this onto the field? And...what does hat say to the on field leadership?

Gee this years going to be a contrast in the boxes. Deans hardly moves or says a word, Hansen honestly looks bored or asleep and I think Disneys right, has a couple of whiskeys before his after match speeches he slurs so much.

Brrrrrrr.....

Taylorman wrote:Not sure why youre even considering Lambie at 10. Not gonna happen. Steyn is there for good this year unless he completely loses it. Meyer is an ultra conservative type who seemingly thinks the Bulls are the be all and end all of all rugby and where there are gaps, he will look at others.

After watching him yelling down that stupid walkie talkie (80's?) through the entire match with a bright red face all the time, stopping only to grin at his cohorts next to him (albeit briefly) when Petierson scored then jump back on it looks a bit concerning in the psycho stakes to be honest.

I mean whats he yelling? Is there 80 minutes worth of information that he forgot to dispatch to the team beforehand? Are his people really passing all this onto the field? And...what does hat say to the on field leadership?

Gee this years going to be a contrast in the boxes. Deans hardly moves or says a word, Hansen honestly looks bored or asleep and I think Disneys right, has a couple of whiskeys before his after match speeches he slurs so much.

Brrrrrrr.....

What qualifies as 'completely losing it'? I think he came pretty close (close enough for me). 50-60% kicking success rate, when he's in the team 'for his kicking'!! Even JdV acknowledged that the Boks weak kicking game let them down. Morne is the one who's supposed to bring the kicking game.

There is an article on supersport where Meyer admitted he is concerned with Morne, that is the first step, acknowledging there is a problem, lets hope.

Biltong I hope he lifts his rate and stays to be honest. Looking forward to a Cruden SBW combo knocking on his gate to be honest. Meyer's gonna need a new walkie talkie for that one...


...just kidding...

How like ly is it Juan Smith will EVER play again last i heard was 2013 at best.Burger is still not yet fit or even likely before end of Super games 940 kgs would be about a 100 kgs more than the AllBlacks pack last Saturday.Sheer weight means nothing without technique at full strength the All Blacks will have
a good setpiece.The Scrum the last two matches has been affected by injuries and players unused to the positions.Owen Franks.Mealamu.Woodcock,Romano,Whitelock,McCaw,Read,Thomson.Solid scrum,5 genuine lineout options,good ball carrying .A Case for Thomson to wear 7 and McCaw 6.with Cane on the Bench.An out and out fetcher is not required versus the Boks but reverse Thomson/Cane for Oz.

I really thought he was going to try something different for the 3rd test but he only did the injury forced swaps. Maybe he was scared to play Lambie at 10 with Morne giving him a bit more continuity.

I am a stormer supporter, but I also think Morne at his best is better than Lambie at his best. Goosen looks really good, but you also have to ask yourself if he is going to fit into the whole Springbok setup. The Cheetahs wasn't really playing springbok rugby with him there.

After Morne Steyn's kicking performance in the 3 England tests, should Pienaar be taking the place kicks?? He's been knocking everything within 55m over for Ulster this season.

In that squad there were a lot of people being able to kick. Frans, Lambie, Pienaar and Morne. I think they should have tried someone else in a few situations. But there were swerling winds in both Durban and PE stadiums that Morne were not used to.

Meyer is building an amateur era caricature base on the cliches about springbok rugby.

I'm sorry about it but is a true.

If I was going to be flirt with controversial I would say this is some reaction to the policitical appointment of previous coach.

This springbok team belong in Jurrasic Park and will be more unhappy experience for th fan like Biltongbek as long as this continue.

Even the limited England manage to match the one dimension of this team and so is power game not working! This team will be take apart by Australia, New Zealand and struggling even against Argentina.

top players, top kickers should be able to perform in any conditions... no just their home ground, in perfect weather.

anotherworldofpain wrote:Meyer is building an amateur era caricature base on the cliches about springbok rugby.

I'm sorry about it but is a true.

If I was going to be flirt with controversial I would say this is some reaction to the policitical appointment of previous coach.

This springbok team belong in Jurrasic Park and will be more unhappy experience for th fan like Biltongbek as long as this continue.

Even the limited England manage to match the one dimension of this team and so is power game not working! This team will be take apart by Australia, New Zealand and struggling even against Argentina.

AWOP, firstly your continuous reference to Springbok rugby as "jurassic" or "out of date" or whatever you want to call it, is about as old as the dinosaurs themselves.

Secondly you aren't going to manage to wind the Saffers up with those statements because we have heard them a million times and are impervious to them.

The important thing here is if you actually watched the 3 tests, was the promise that showed when we did play rugby, we need another pivot, end of story.

biltongbek wrote:

anotherworldofpain wrote:Meyer is building an amateur era caricature base on the cliches about springbok rugby.

I'm sorry about it but is a true.

If I was going to be flirt with controversial I would say this is some reaction to the policitical appointment of previous coach.

This springbok team belong in Jurrasic Park and will be more unhappy experience for th fan like Biltongbek as long as this continue.

Even the limited England manage to match the one dimension of this team and so is power game not working! This team will be take apart by Australia, New Zealand and struggling even against Argentina.

AWOP, firstly your continuous reference to Springbok rugby as "jurassic" or "out of date" or whatever you want to call it, is about as old as the dinosaurs themselves.

Secondly you aren't going to manage to wind the Saffers up with those statements because we have heard them a million times and are impervious to them.

The important thing here is if you actually watched the 3 tests, was the promise that showed when we did play rugby, we need another pivot, end of story.

I don't try to wind anyone up Biltong! Is my opinion! Is exactly my point that the "old as dinosaurs" that I say that! There was not guile or the subtlety about Springboks they just run in the straight line and kick and try to run over the opponent like a bulldozer.

Only exception was JP Pieterson try when there was great surprise by everyone that he run the ball. No one expect it and there was some stunned looks to the face of England! and spectators! and commentators!

To me the boo from fans to Steyn for his mind numbing kicking could be the turning point. Maybe the coach hear this and realise this style not working anymore. But problem is everyone else realise this 3 years ago and SA now have to play catching up! PdV seemed to realising this and change the combinator to more balance. But Meyer firmly start with a team make up of bulldozers. I wonder if he can change the perspective or if the SA are doomed for a generation.

SA will only win trophies by playing the game which suits them best; their own game... they've won 2 RWCs, 3 SR titles this way and in the future they will win the same way.

If SA field their first choice side available in August I think NZ will have to be at their very very best to beat them. AUS will fold I think against the pressure in the tight.
Argentina (after losing by 50 to FRA will be lucky to get losing bonus points in either game.

The boks are right up there and I think a good bet for the title.

biltongbek wrote:

anotherworldofpain wrote:Meyer is building an amateur era caricature base on the cliches about springbok rugby.

I'm sorry about it but is a true.

If I was going to be flirt with controversial I would say this is some reaction to the policitical appointment of previous coach.

This springbok team belong in Jurrasic Park and will be more unhappy experience for th fan like Biltongbek as long as this continue.

Even the limited England manage to match the one dimension of this team and so is power game not working! This team will be take apart by Australia, New Zealand and struggling even against Argentina.

AWOP, firstly your continuous reference to Springbok rugby as "jurassic" or "out of date" or whatever you want to call it, is about as old as the dinosaurs themselves.

Secondly you aren't going to manage to wind the Saffers up with those statements because we have heard them a million times and are impervious to them.

The important thing here is if you actually watched the 3 tests, was the promise that showed when we did play rugby, we need another pivot, end of story.

Like it or not, Morne is going to be here for some time to come. I think I heard the supersport commentators say that he is now the most experienced flyhalf that South Africa had. 37 caps, beating the record of Butch James. Morne's overall play was much better this tour and he had to receive from Hougaard who in my opinion was sub-standard. Morne's kicking will get better. Goosen is the only one I see that might take Morne out of that spot, but then again he is injured and you don't know how he will play when he is coming back. I also think that Goosen might also just look better because he plays for a more free running Cheetahs side.

Morne has proven himself countless times. He has broken all the records so far, so I think we might just be harsh on him. We have had worse and still stuck with them, I think Meyer will stick with Morne for some time to come.

Fern with all due respect mate, the records Steyn has broken is all kicking records, something you would expect of any kicking 10.

I ask you the same question I asked on another forum, do you want to remain top 3, or do you want to be number 1?

Steyn aren't going to take you to number 1.

They booed Steyn because he was missing all his field goals... not because of the style.

Funny that everyone realises it... but by that it would mean that the boks have been caught out etc? Legitimately there is only 2 sides in the world capable of beating SA.. the others can know as much as they want about how the boks will come at them... they'll still lose.

There is no such thing as moral victors in this game... rugby isn't performance art, ballroom dancing oe ice skating... you don't get judged on how you play... only points, some teams go out to score tries, some go out to punish mistakes via penalties.

Here is something for you/anyone else who wants to know... No one here in SA cares about how fancy the boks play, if they win, its fine.

If the boks won 18 games in a row by kicks and penalties alone you wouldn't hear any uproar. SA don't care about building their brand and selling shirts outside of SA, they're not dependent on having to put on a show.... rugby has more viewers on TV and fill more stadiums then any other country in the world... the ave. home game attendance is well over 30,000 for Currie Cup matches in the 1st Division??

Whats it like in the Rabo, Top14, GP, ITM Cup etc??? I bet none of them top 20,000 on ave. If the notion that running rugby brings in fans I'd beg to differ. SA proves this. Dinosaur rugby rules the roost, long may it continue.

anotherworldofpain wrote:To me the boo from fans to Steyn for his mind numbing kicking could be the turning point. Maybe the coach hear this and realise this style not working anymore. But problem is everyone else realise this 3 years ago and SA now have to play catching up! PdV seemed to realising this and change the combinator to more balance. But Meyer firmly start with a team make up of bulldozers. I wonder if he can change the perspective or if the SA are doomed for a generation.

I think the booing is unnecessary, we all hailed Morne as a hero after the B&I Lions series. We shouldn't be booing our own team no matter what. Yes some people don't like the way the team plays, but I think it is just bad sportsmanship from the crowd. The same goes with the Newlands crowd, and many others - I just named Newlands because it is my home ground. Booing the opposition and then booing the home team louder is just not on. There should be no booing. In fact, I was quite pleasantly surprised at Loftus when they asked over the speakers that there be no booing and that if there is someone should sms the seat number. Needless to say, I didn't hear anything and Loftus is seen as housing the worst crowd in SA (I really don't know why they got that label as whenever I was there it has always been fun).

biltongbek wrote:Fern with all due respect mate, the records Steyn has broken is all kicking records, something you would expect of any kicking 10.

I ask you the same question I asked on another forum, do you want to remain top 3, or do you want to be number 1?

Steyn aren't going to take you to number 1.

I am sorry Biltong, but we were only ever number one when we had a strong kicking game in the pro era, even PDV realised this after his first tri-nations and then took us to the number one spot the year after that.

If there is some one better I say replace Steyn, but remember - it was Steyn that took us to number 1 and he took the Bulls to number 1 and he literally kicked my team out of the Currie Cup.

fa0019 wrote:
Funny that everyone realises it... but by that it would mean that the boks have been caught out etc? Legitimately there is only 2 sides in the world capable of beating SA.. the others can know as much as they want about how the boks will come at them... they'll still lose.

There is no such thing as moral victors in this game... rugby isn't performance art, ballroom dancing oe ice skating... you don't get judged on how you play... only points, some teams go out to score tries, some go out to punish mistakes via penalties.

Here is something for you/anyone else who wants to know... No one here in SA cares about how fancy the boks play, if they win, its fine.

If the boks won 18 games in a row by kicks and penalties alone you wouldn't hear any uproar. SA don't care about building their brand and selling shirts outside of SA, they're not dependent on having to put on a show.... rugby has more viewers on TV and fill more stadiums then any other country in the world... the ave. home game attendance is well over 30,000 for Currie Cup matches in the 1st Division??

Whats it like in the Rabo, Top14, GP, ITM Cup etc??? I bet none of them top 20,000 on ave. If the notion that running rugby brings in fans I'd beg to differ. SA proves this. Dinosaur rugby rules the roost, long may it continue.

FA I fully agree with you, we don't care what others think, we aren't worried about supporter numbers and marketing our brand outside world rugby, and yes style doesn't matter against most teams as our individual talent is there for all to see.

However, to be number one, we need plan B, and Steyn doesn't have it.

FerN wrote:

biltongbek wrote:Fern with all due respect mate, the records Steyn has broken is all kicking records, something you would expect of any kicking 10.

I ask you the same question I asked on another forum, do you want to remain top 3, or do you want to be number 1?

Steyn aren't going to take you to number 1.

I am sorry Biltong, but we were only ever number one when we had a strong kicking game in the pro era, even PDV realised this after his first tri-nations and then took us to the number one spot the year after that.

If there is some one better I say replace Steyn, but remember - it was Steyn that took us to number 1 and he took the Bulls to number 1 and he literally kicked my team out of the Currie Cup.

Yes mate, but when that happened our kicking game worked against everyone, now it doesn't. We need to forget what worked in 2009, it is three years on.

The All Blacks have smartened up, they now employ a back three who all have areal skills, in 2009 they didn't

Yes FA0019 you missing the point that noone talk about "attractive" rugby. I am talk about "intelligent" rugby. And Meyer now seem to just build a rugby bully machine. But as demonstrate by England if they match up with the aggression and technique then the SA team is like a enraged bull slowly being put on the rapier by a dancing matador. The more angry and stomping and charging the more it seal the fate for itself.

Unfortunately for Eng, they have no dancing matador so game end in the draw!

But I say this is "amateur era" because is basing his model for success entire about belief that SA have bigger stronger more aggression than other country and better goal kick. Which is just not true in professional era. And also base on the idea that strong and aggressive is enough. But in professional era also not true.

SA need more than one dimensional angry direct game not to get supporters or sponsors or record deal or cover of vogue magazine, but to win the game when the opposition match up to the power.

biltongbek wrote:Yes mate, but when that happened our kicking game worked against everyone, now it doesn't. We need to forget what worked in 2009, it is three years on.

The All Blacks have smartened up, they now employ a back three who all have areal skills, in 2009 they didn't

Yes I know. Even before the pro era we played like this and even NZ knew we played like this but we got away with this. The two top SR teams in our country play like this. You are not going to play with their players and then change their game that drastically. Until the Bulls,Stormers and Sharks play a similar game to what you want, this is what you are going to get. It would be suicide for Meyer to try and change that this year. He can maybe ask the other teams to play a different way, but for the first series it was always going to be like this.

Fern, Meyer doesn't have to change much at all.

We can play the way we played in that first 25 minutes as a blueprint, that needs finetuning only.

We need to find someone that can cause hesitation in the opposition defence when needed.

We just need to add a surprise aspect to our play.

I have been arguing ths point with many South Africans, we don't need to change the whle thing, we need only to add X-factor.

Well it wasn't a blip.. Morne hasn't been performing all season.

Here are the stats of this seasons SR campaign by kicks for all players who have scored 50+ points by the boot.

1 Peter Grant 96.9% 84
2 Brendan Mckibbin 92.1% 89
3 Tom Taylor 86.3% 118
4 Johan Goosen 85.7% 127
5 Elton Jantjies 84.6% 86
6 Chriatian Lealiifano 84.0% 109
7 James O'Connor 83.9% 72
8 Aaron Cruden 82.9% 171
9 Michael Harris 80.4% 108
10 Patrick Lambie 80.0% 136
11 Morne Steyn 77.8% 182
12 David Harvey 77.5% 82
13 Chris Noakes 76.3% 73
14 Beauden Barrett 72.7% 161
15 Gareth Anscombe 72.3% 89
16 Joe Pietersen 70.5% 87

Morne is the worst SR first choice kicker in SA. Grant, Goosen, Jantjies & Lambie are all better than him this season. Grant is again... amazing.

The end of the first test, and the beginning of the 2nd test, showed that when our plan A is working, Morne is fine for the job, and if the boks play like the first 20 minutes of the 2nd test (and then maintain it for a full 80) they could beat anybody, even the ABs. But if the game plan isn't working in the forwards, like in the 3rd test, then Morne is unable to execute plan B very well (Wynand didn't help). Perhaps if Lambie had been at fullback, he could have played at no.10 on attack to better execute a wider attacking backline plan if plan A goes awry.

Mr Fishpaste wrote:The end of the first test, and the beginning of the 2nd test, showed that when our plan A is working, Morne is fine for the job, and if the boks play like the first 20 minutes of the 2nd test (and then maintain it for a full 80) they could beat anybody, even the ABs. But if the game plan isn't working in the forwards, like in the 3rd test, then Morne is unable to execute plan B very well (Wynand didn't help). Perhaps if Lambie had been at fullback, he could have played at no.10 on attack to better execute a wider attacking backline plan if plan A goes awry.

We couldn't see any danger for the first twenty minutes of the hunting and the last twenty minutes of the hunting. So this prove that stick our head in the sand is the correct solution to the problem of being hunted.

Except for the 20 minutes in the middle when half of us got shot and we couldn't tell what was happen! But next time we hope that this 20 minutes doesn't happen and we all living!

Hawu! Angasi (translation: Gosh, I don't really follow!!!)

Mr Fishpaste wrote:Hawu! Angasi (translation: Gosh, I don't really follow!!!)

Yeah, neither did I, but I'm not even gonna try.

Sometimes you just have to accept that the riddle is not in the written word, but only in the mind of the person who wrote it.

maybe we should try and get a local bergie to translate?

Still surprised Brüssow isn't being considered. Especially as Australia and NZ without Kaino and Thorn aren't the post physical sides.

I'd have Lambie at 10 with Pienaar taking the kicks. Hougaard as the super sub. Tempted to start Hougaard but kicking wise Pienaar's better and you need a great place kicker.

Biltong how did you feel about JDV's performance at 13? So used to seeing him perroam at 12 inside his mate Fourie. Though Fourie was declining so it was good for him to get out when he did.

Having complete footballers on wings is a must against South Africa-well at least one. If you have a great jumper who is tall you can get above Habana who isn't a giant. Plus a ball can be taken into a maul from a kick so if you can catch you should be sweet if your pack gets back.

I'd work on the scrummaging as NZ have been inconsistent there against Ireland. I think you'll beat us up physically too. Alberts must start. Spies is frightening when the guys in front of him are winning the battle but if not then he is a definite liability. Such a shame Goosen's injured.

As for the 25 min starts, well that's the thing with SA. The ABs always are about staying in the hunt after that time when the match settles down. You guys start with a frenzied pace and it's difficult to live with you. However if this is done and we're close or ahead we can start to impose our game by the 30 mins mark.

The Boks, although they can play at the same frenzied pace as NZ and Aussie, don't play as expansively, and keep coming back to their strengths. This is effective and psychologically very ballsy, because it is predictable but still very very hard to overcome. If they had a couple of players with complete unpredictability, almost someone who does NOT play percentages, it fixes players and creates more space for others, and would offer so much more in attack. Look at Cruden fixing players on Sat. And if they don't come off, hell it's a team game and the rest of them can help him out.

Hi disney, some good news I read today is that Goosen might make august.

However probably too soon to then just pop him into a Bok jumper.

Would like to see him on the bench though and given some time against Argentina, I expect him as a youngster to not much care about match fitness, these youngsters have more energy than most.

I agree with you that Burger and Alberts must be in combination with Spies. That will allow him to go further wide than channel one ball where he is least effective. Let burger and Alberts hit the traffic.

Bekker and Etzebeth is the likely locking pair.

That will imo definitely beef up our physicality and still be a mobile pack.

Francois steyn at this point in time must be on the bench. Hopefully Lambie gets his shot at 10, perhpas Meyer will whisper in the ears of Plumtree to play Lambie at ten for the rest of the Super XV. We'll soon find out.

Steyn and JDV in my view didn't do badly, Frans distributed some well exected skip passes to put JP in space and he did very well with that space.

Habana from deep looked good as well.

Full back is a problem though if Lambie goes to ten.

Hate Kirchner, don't like Morne, think Aplon in the fournations is too small, Joe Pietersen maybe, but not sure.

How about moving Pietersen to 15 and putting Hougaard in at 14?

JP is more than skilled enough to play 15... he's done so in the past and SA could use Hougaards eplosive pace... something we haven't seen in years on the wing.

Good idea FA, might just be a very good idea indeed.

remember SA vs WAL in the RWC.. hougaard changed the game... thats where he should play, thats where SA will get the best out of him.

The UK commentators raised an interesting point about Bismarck. With Alberts not taking the ball up off first phase, Bismarck wasn't as effective as he is usually the second phase runner. Obviously with a set defensive line he wouldn't be as prominent. Seems you have great options though, either Burger or Alberts to start, the second barrel coming in the form or either du Plessis or Spies. Quick ball from that to a creative 10 and she's looking good. The trick is to run straight at Pocock/McCaw with someone right up his bum to keep Pocock on the ground and unable to play the ball. Wales did that effectively if not entirely legally. The Aussies have done that in the past with Michael Jones. But then the next phase becomes decisive and you have to take advantage of having front foot ball with the opposition 7 being out of play.

I like Bekker too. Good player. At last JDV is still quick enough to make an outside break at 13.

Don't like Kirchner either. NZ will eat Aplon without a solid platform. Great to read about Goosen.

Aplon is as tough as nails.

Gets tackled hard... but never gets turned over and is a solid defender.

Anyone ever seen Aplon get bested???

No one doubts Aplon's toughness or commitment (if only it could be matched by all the boks all the time) but he just doesn't have the power to make that extra metre in contact to get that extra bit of forward momentum on attack, but if it was between Aplon and Kirchner, I'd take the former anyday of the week.

He doesn't suit a kick chase game... give him the platform and he's Jason Robinson mark 2.

RE: Bismark, to me he looked a little tired on Saturday. Maybe he is human after all.

fa0019 wrote:He doesn't suit a kick chase game... give him the platform and he's Jason Robinson mark 2.

Agreed. Perhaps, he's best off the bench, when the opposition is tiring, or if the Boks need to change game plan.

with the current set up probably... such a waste of talent.

Well I'd take Aplon on the bench any day before I put Basson on the bench.

Then again... was Basson any worse than Habana at defending early on in his career?