England
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The v2 Forum :: Welcome! :: Euro 2012
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England
We spent the tournament arguing about Englands lack of technical ability/great defending etc, etc, but in the end they're done in by an inability to put the ball in the net from 12 yards. You never know, one day we might win one. Probably the same day Wayne Rooney sports a ponytail.
Pre tournament we expected next to nothing, especially after Lampard, Barry and Cahill all dropped out, and Wilshere, Rodwell and Bent all absent with injury. Followed by 2 pretty drab performances in friendlies. Selecting the likes of Downing or Carroll did nothing to inspire confidence in new manager Roy Hodgson either.
Most expected France to put England to the sword, however a Joleon Lescott goal, followed by dogged defending by England earned them a 1-1 draw in their opener. England then moved onto Sweden where a bright opening gave them an early lead through Andy Carroll. However England collapsed after the interval, gifting 2 goals to Olaf Mellberg to trail with 30 minutes to go. Enter Theo Walcott. A shot from distance evaded the Swedish keeper, and a cross was coverted by the heel of Danny Welbeck to steal a victory for England.
Heading into their final game vs hosts Ukraine, England needed a point to secure qualification to the QFs while Ukraine had to win. Despite being without the ball for most of the first half, England were able to grab a goal through the returning Wayne Rooney early in the 2nd half, while Ukraine couldn't find a way past Joe Hart (the goal that never was was offside, etc, etc). Even better for England, France collapsed to defeat vs Sweden, handing them a QF vs Italy rather than World and European champions Spain.
England started out well vs the Italians, having the best of the first 15-20 or so, before Pirlo began to run the show and the Italians took control. With some hard work, and a bit of luck along the way, England held out for 120 minutes. Unfortunately, despite being 2-1 up, England failed to convert another penalty and lost 4-2, ending their outside chance.
Going forward Roy has some work to do, despite rolling back the years in this tournament, Gerrard is 32 and will be 34 in Brazil 2014. Parker is a useful stopgap, not a permanant solution, and the likes of Barry and Lampard have seen better days. Much will depend on the likes of Jack Wilshere to lead a new midfield. Defensively, its likely to be the last hurrah of John Terry, who's had better days, and possible Ashley Cole once he reaches 100 caps.
Pre tournament we expected next to nothing, especially after Lampard, Barry and Cahill all dropped out, and Wilshere, Rodwell and Bent all absent with injury. Followed by 2 pretty drab performances in friendlies. Selecting the likes of Downing or Carroll did nothing to inspire confidence in new manager Roy Hodgson either.
Most expected France to put England to the sword, however a Joleon Lescott goal, followed by dogged defending by England earned them a 1-1 draw in their opener. England then moved onto Sweden where a bright opening gave them an early lead through Andy Carroll. However England collapsed after the interval, gifting 2 goals to Olaf Mellberg to trail with 30 minutes to go. Enter Theo Walcott. A shot from distance evaded the Swedish keeper, and a cross was coverted by the heel of Danny Welbeck to steal a victory for England.
Heading into their final game vs hosts Ukraine, England needed a point to secure qualification to the QFs while Ukraine had to win. Despite being without the ball for most of the first half, England were able to grab a goal through the returning Wayne Rooney early in the 2nd half, while Ukraine couldn't find a way past Joe Hart (the goal that never was was offside, etc, etc). Even better for England, France collapsed to defeat vs Sweden, handing them a QF vs Italy rather than World and European champions Spain.
England started out well vs the Italians, having the best of the first 15-20 or so, before Pirlo began to run the show and the Italians took control. With some hard work, and a bit of luck along the way, England held out for 120 minutes. Unfortunately, despite being 2-1 up, England failed to convert another penalty and lost 4-2, ending their outside chance.
Going forward Roy has some work to do, despite rolling back the years in this tournament, Gerrard is 32 and will be 34 in Brazil 2014. Parker is a useful stopgap, not a permanant solution, and the likes of Barry and Lampard have seen better days. Much will depend on the likes of Jack Wilshere to lead a new midfield. Defensively, its likely to be the last hurrah of John Terry, who's had better days, and possible Ashley Cole once he reaches 100 caps.
GSC- Posts : 43496
Join date : 2011-03-28
Age : 32
Location : Leicester
Re: England
Cashley can go for another couple of years. The guy is brilliant and has never been hit by a serious injury. Probably still the best LB in the world.
Hate the git though.
Hate the git though.
azania- Posts : 19471
Join date : 2011-01-29
Age : 112
Re: England
I'd hope. The legs begin to go eventually though.
GSC- Posts : 43496
Join date : 2011-03-28
Age : 32
Location : Leicester
Re: England
Kids like Sturridge, Cleverley, Kyle Walker, Micah, Smalling, Jones, Rodwell, Welbeck, Ox, Theo even Carroll have a lot to offer in future. Germany used many of their U21 kids in the last world cup and they came up trumps. These English kids all have technical ability and know how to pass the ball 2-3 years without panicking. Use them.
azania- Posts : 19471
Join date : 2011-01-29
Age : 112
Re: England
Yeah, I believe the year before that tournament we lost to the German U21s in the final of the U21 tourny. We have talent, and they even won a penalty shootout
GSC- Posts : 43496
Join date : 2011-03-28
Age : 32
Location : Leicester
Re: England
And most pf those germans formed the bulk of their current team. Wonder why england are so loyal to their current bunch of failures?
azania- Posts : 19471
Join date : 2011-01-29
Age : 112
Re: England
Hodgson is probably the only manager who could mould the young England players into a modern, progressive footballing unit.
In my opinion, he should make a start as soon as possible.
The old guard have served England pretty much to the best of their abilities but Euro 2012 should be their last hurrah. Thank you for your services, gentlemen, now it's time to step aside. England must move on.
Of course, forming a new, young team will not be easy and results may be not all we hope for at first. The biggest concern would be whether or not we qualified for the next world cup. I think we could achieve that with a young team...... but nothing is guaranteed. If we didn't, then I think England should still keep Hodgson. Think of the long game.
Most likely, though, wholesale changes will be avoided and new players introduced piecemeal which is probably the "safer" option, vis-a-vis world cup qualifying, but it does lessen the dynamic of a fresh, young team starting together and growing as a "band of brothers".
We do have good young players waiting in the wings, and we do have an intelligent, talented head coach at the helm who would not only be able to mould and shape them to international football, but will also nurture them as a father figure. A good blend of professional nous and paternalism.
So....... Onwards and upwards. Euro 2012 is over. Bring on the world cup qualifiers..!!
.
In my opinion, he should make a start as soon as possible.
The old guard have served England pretty much to the best of their abilities but Euro 2012 should be their last hurrah. Thank you for your services, gentlemen, now it's time to step aside. England must move on.
Of course, forming a new, young team will not be easy and results may be not all we hope for at first. The biggest concern would be whether or not we qualified for the next world cup. I think we could achieve that with a young team...... but nothing is guaranteed. If we didn't, then I think England should still keep Hodgson. Think of the long game.
Most likely, though, wholesale changes will be avoided and new players introduced piecemeal which is probably the "safer" option, vis-a-vis world cup qualifying, but it does lessen the dynamic of a fresh, young team starting together and growing as a "band of brothers".
We do have good young players waiting in the wings, and we do have an intelligent, talented head coach at the helm who would not only be able to mould and shape them to international football, but will also nurture them as a father figure. A good blend of professional nous and paternalism.
So....... Onwards and upwards. Euro 2012 is over. Bring on the world cup qualifiers..!!
.
Jennifer1984- Posts : 336
Join date : 2012-06-07
Age : 40
Location : Penzance, Cornwall
Re: England
Jennifer
The problem is that Capello wasted the two years following the World Cup, by continuing mainly to rely on the likes of Gerrard, Lampard and Terry. Additionally, the current squad was clearly hampered by the absence of Wilshire, Walker, Rodwell and Cahill, so forcing RH to pick (mostly) the squad he did.
A quick summary of the players who saw appreciable game time:
Hart - A good to very good young keeper. Long term first choice.
Johnson - Was probably as good as any England player this tournament. Assured in defence and composed on the ball in attack. Position under threat from Walker and Richards, making this a position of potential strength for the medium term.
Cole - Still plenty good enough and without an obvious successor, so can see him sticking around for a while longer.
Lescott - Solid defender, but not good enough when we have the ball. OK in the short term but we should be looking for better
Terry - Commitment is all very well, but half the time he was throwing himself into blocks to recover from his own mistakes. Looked terribly short of pace when Ibrahimovic tried running him. Surely time to say thanks and goodbye.
Parker - Showed for much of the three games the value of a destroyer in midfield, and his passing is better than many make out. If only he was 10 years younger and had finished the season fully fit, as he faded in the last 15 of each match.
Gerrard - Doesn't quite have the engine of a few years ago, but still has quality on the ball and reads the game well in defensive position. The question is whether Hodgson will change tactics and formation to stop him getting overrun in the middle.
Milner - Is what he is. Hard working and capable of reasonable quality but will struggle to really work top class international full backs (although he was unlucky to be subbed v Italy, where he was playing well and Ashley Young was having a shocker). Useful squad player because he can play right across the midfield to a reasonably competent level.
Walcott - Shone against Sweden but struggled to get into the Ukraine and Italy games. His pace and directness will always cause defenders probems, but again the question is whether he quite has the quality. Useful bench option.
Young - Had a shocker of a tournament, and his performance summed up the problems England have at the moment. This is a guy picked for his attacking skill, yet he is so casual in making 10 yard square passes that either they miss their target or mean that the recipient is immediately under pressure.
Oxlade-Chamberlain - This tournament probably came a bit too soon for him. Needs to work on his reading of the game and knowing when and where to pass, but clearly has a lot of potential. Let him watch plenty of videos of Ronaldo, to see how to use the pace and dribbling ability he has to the best effect. Definitely one for the near to middle term future, where I expect he'll supplant Walcott and Young as the pacy wide player.
Rooney - Lack of match sharpness and inability of others to get into supporting positions often enough counted against him this tournament. Would be a great player with a yard more pace, which he really needs to work on. Currently he gets past defenders but can't run away from them. At 26, still has a few good years in him.
Welbeck - I'm still not convinced he's good enough for the highest level. Showed some flashes that he is a good instinctive finisher, and he is very good at hassling defenders into error, but he is a bit weak with his back to the defence and his passing / linking game needs to sharpen up.
Carroll - Big, strong and uses his body well without giving away anything like as many fouls as Crouch did. The problems are that when he's on the pitch we tend to go too long ball, with only Rooney in support, and that his passing is a bit sloppy at times. Potential to be very good, but needs to sharpen up his game with the ball at his feet.
And the manager:
Hodgson - The positive is that he clearly got the team playing for each other and without the usual disruptive influences taking over. Has done an OK job under the circumstances of getting the job so late in the day and then losing a few players who would otherwise have been there. The negative is that a solid 4-4-2 formation gets exposed at international level - all four games had spells (and against Italy, most of the game) where we got pushed too deep and just couldn't hold the ball well enough to get out and ease the pressure. Also, against Italy playing with Pirlo as an extra central midfielder, Parker and Gerrard were simply over-run if the forwards couldn't get back to help. May be time to look at a 4-3-2-1 / 4-5-1 formation with the midfield 3 playing narrow and the 2 'off' forwards covering any runs from the opposing fullbacks.
The problem is that Capello wasted the two years following the World Cup, by continuing mainly to rely on the likes of Gerrard, Lampard and Terry. Additionally, the current squad was clearly hampered by the absence of Wilshire, Walker, Rodwell and Cahill, so forcing RH to pick (mostly) the squad he did.
A quick summary of the players who saw appreciable game time:
Hart - A good to very good young keeper. Long term first choice.
Johnson - Was probably as good as any England player this tournament. Assured in defence and composed on the ball in attack. Position under threat from Walker and Richards, making this a position of potential strength for the medium term.
Cole - Still plenty good enough and without an obvious successor, so can see him sticking around for a while longer.
Lescott - Solid defender, but not good enough when we have the ball. OK in the short term but we should be looking for better
Terry - Commitment is all very well, but half the time he was throwing himself into blocks to recover from his own mistakes. Looked terribly short of pace when Ibrahimovic tried running him. Surely time to say thanks and goodbye.
Parker - Showed for much of the three games the value of a destroyer in midfield, and his passing is better than many make out. If only he was 10 years younger and had finished the season fully fit, as he faded in the last 15 of each match.
Gerrard - Doesn't quite have the engine of a few years ago, but still has quality on the ball and reads the game well in defensive position. The question is whether Hodgson will change tactics and formation to stop him getting overrun in the middle.
Milner - Is what he is. Hard working and capable of reasonable quality but will struggle to really work top class international full backs (although he was unlucky to be subbed v Italy, where he was playing well and Ashley Young was having a shocker). Useful squad player because he can play right across the midfield to a reasonably competent level.
Walcott - Shone against Sweden but struggled to get into the Ukraine and Italy games. His pace and directness will always cause defenders probems, but again the question is whether he quite has the quality. Useful bench option.
Young - Had a shocker of a tournament, and his performance summed up the problems England have at the moment. This is a guy picked for his attacking skill, yet he is so casual in making 10 yard square passes that either they miss their target or mean that the recipient is immediately under pressure.
Oxlade-Chamberlain - This tournament probably came a bit too soon for him. Needs to work on his reading of the game and knowing when and where to pass, but clearly has a lot of potential. Let him watch plenty of videos of Ronaldo, to see how to use the pace and dribbling ability he has to the best effect. Definitely one for the near to middle term future, where I expect he'll supplant Walcott and Young as the pacy wide player.
Rooney - Lack of match sharpness and inability of others to get into supporting positions often enough counted against him this tournament. Would be a great player with a yard more pace, which he really needs to work on. Currently he gets past defenders but can't run away from them. At 26, still has a few good years in him.
Welbeck - I'm still not convinced he's good enough for the highest level. Showed some flashes that he is a good instinctive finisher, and he is very good at hassling defenders into error, but he is a bit weak with his back to the defence and his passing / linking game needs to sharpen up.
Carroll - Big, strong and uses his body well without giving away anything like as many fouls as Crouch did. The problems are that when he's on the pitch we tend to go too long ball, with only Rooney in support, and that his passing is a bit sloppy at times. Potential to be very good, but needs to sharpen up his game with the ball at his feet.
And the manager:
Hodgson - The positive is that he clearly got the team playing for each other and without the usual disruptive influences taking over. Has done an OK job under the circumstances of getting the job so late in the day and then losing a few players who would otherwise have been there. The negative is that a solid 4-4-2 formation gets exposed at international level - all four games had spells (and against Italy, most of the game) where we got pushed too deep and just couldn't hold the ball well enough to get out and ease the pressure. Also, against Italy playing with Pirlo as an extra central midfielder, Parker and Gerrard were simply over-run if the forwards couldn't get back to help. May be time to look at a 4-3-2-1 / 4-5-1 formation with the midfield 3 playing narrow and the 2 'off' forwards covering any runs from the opposing fullbacks.
dummy_half- Posts : 6497
Join date : 2011-03-11
Age : 52
Location : East Hertfordshire
Re: England
Aye the Germans blooded their youngsters though, while we clung to a 'golden generation' that weren't good enough in their prime.
I don't think we can really blame Roy for playing it safe given his circumstances. I'd expect his team that plays Italy in August/September to be much changed
I don't think we can really blame Roy for playing it safe given his circumstances. I'd expect his team that plays Italy in August/September to be much changed
GSC- Posts : 43496
Join date : 2011-03-28
Age : 32
Location : Leicester
Re: England
I'd probably have a quiet word in Lampard's ear along the lines of, retire now and go out on your own terms.
GSC- Posts : 43496
Join date : 2011-03-28
Age : 32
Location : Leicester
Re: England
Graeme, check your PMs mate
Trebs- Posts : 14651
Join date : 2011-05-16
Age : 62
Location : Manchester
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