Final RABO Table

How do you think the Final table for the Rabo Direct Pro12 will turn out like?

My guess-

Leinster
Ospreys
Ulster
Scarlets
Glasgow
Munster
Edinburgh
Blues
Connacht
Treviso
Dragons
Zebre

What do you think? seems about right to me

Bit soon to be guessing IMO... The top four will probably be the same as always though.

Could be wrong here, but have a sense that Scarlets have lost some front five beef and not really replaced it. Given that that was a weakness for them last season, if it is true, then I would expect them to struggle for all the talent in the backrow and backline. Expecting the two Scottish clubs to improve ( wouldn't be difficult for Embra!) and to be competing for playoffs at the end of this season

Scarlets have recruited some new beef, two big second rows and are on the lookout for a TH. They are not the finished article yet. I expect them to improve as a team, but I also expect all the teams to improve. Munster will too even though their fans might not agree.

Three Welsh Regions should be strong with all the internationals they have available to them with plenty of promising U20's ready to make the step-up. They should have a good season as long as they don't get too many injuries (but they probably will get a lot after this long season).

Morgannwg wrote:Scarlets have recruited some new beef, two big second rows and are on the lookout for a TH. They are not the finished article yet. I expect them to improve as a team, but I also expect all the teams to improve. Munster will too even though their fans might not agree.

Three Welsh Regions should be strong with all the internationals they have available to them with plenty of promising U20's ready to make the step-up. They should have a good season as long as they don't get too many injuries (but they probably will get a lot after this long season).

Morgan, do you mean Vallejos? He might be beef but I don't think he's very good, hence moving on from Quins where he didn't get much game time. Who is the other one?

The other is George Earle, a saffa coming in from the Cheetas I think? Scarlets have lost three seconds rows, they need a seasoned pro before promoting some of the Premiership guys, hence Vallejos. When I think about it, Scarlets might not do as well in the Rabo with the Heineken Cup group they have. I'm sure the empthasis will be on that competition. Same for the Ospreys but they have the depth to do well on both fronts and will be looking to maintain a good record against the Rabo's top teams.

Yeah, I think some of the smaller squads will struggle to compete on two fronts

Morgannwg wrote:The other is George Earle, a saffa coming in from the Cheetas I think? Scarlets have lost three seconds rows, they need a seasoned pro before promoting some of the Premiership guys, hence Vallejos. When I think about it, Scarlets might not do as well in the Rabo with the Heineken Cup group they have. I'm sure the empthasis will be on that competition. Same for the Ospreys but they have the depth to do well on both fronts and will be looking to maintain a good record against the Rabo's top teams.

Not so sure the Ospreys have the depth to compete on two fronts - first team is very strong but I don't think they have much behind it. I think they will concentrate on the HC and success or failure in the HC will determine how strong their Rabo challenge is. To be honest I think there is only one team in the Rabo that has the depth to compete on both fronts which is obviously Leinster. Ospreys first team may be nearly as strong as Leinster's but they dont have the same depth.

Definitely Ulsters target to push back into the Top Four. Hope we can achieve that!

Last season, we fell to pieces badly during the RWC. Four consecutive losses- ouch. Then we were the best side in the league for a few months, had an awesome run of form to get ourselves back in contention. As a result of that form we had a brilliant cup run. Then our league form dropped off a cliff because we didn't have the ability to fight on fronts in league and Cup- we chose a shot at European glory and our team selections in the last phase of the season reflected it.

So, 6th last season, new coach- interesting challenge for Ulster. We will hopefully avoid last seasons early travails. At the start of last season we were missing Muller, Pienaar, Afoa, Ferris, Best, Trimble, Court, Wallace etc. Now every team was missing players due to the RWC so it's no excuse. But I do feel a lot more optimistic now we know our Irish players will be back from Round 3 onwards and Muller, Afoa, Bowe, Wilson, Ferris etc. will be available from Day 1.

Only fly in the ointment is Ruan Pienaar will be missing until the week before the first Heineken Cup game- well into October.

But we've beefed up some problem areas for us like backrow and we should have experienced players around from Day 1. I'm very confident we can push on and maybe finish 2nd/3rd in the league. Bring it on.

Artful, Ospreys have a large squad which they had to rotate last year, eventually they won the league. More guys may be on Wales duty in this new season (such as Tipuric, Webb, Biggar and Beck who were vital to last seasons Rabo challenge); my assumption is the back-up to this backline axis is Habberfield, Morgan, Watermeyer who are all good players. They are pretty much covered everywhere else with experience or academy guys. I believe it is only them and Leinster with the strength to compete on both fronts.

Notch, I fear that Pienaar's prolonged absence at the 4Ns could provide you with a major problem - he is the key to Ulster in whichever halfback role imo

Morgannwg wrote:Artful, Ospreys have a large squad which they had to rotate last year, eventually they won the league. More guys may be on Wales duty in this new season (such as Tipuric, Webb, Biggar and Beck who were vital to last seasons Rabo challenge); my assumption is the back-up to this backline axis is Habberfield, Morgan, Watermeyer who are all good players. They are pretty much covered everywhere else with experience or academy guys. I believe it is only them and Leinster with the strength to compete on both fronts.

Have seen a little bit of Matthew Morgan, but nothing of the others to speak of. What can you tell us about them?

Leinster
Ospreys
Ulster
Munster
Glasgow
Edinburgh
Scarlets
Blues
Treviso
Connacht
Dragons
Zebre

Morgannwg wrote:Artful, Ospreys have a large squad which they had to rotate last year, eventually they won the league. More guys may be on Wales duty in this new season (such as Tipuric, Webb, Biggar and Beck who were vital to last seasons Rabo challenge); my assumption is the back-up to this backline axis is Habberfield, Morgan, Watermeyer who are all good players. They are pretty much covered everywhere else with experience or academy guys. I believe it is only them and Leinster with the strength to compete on both fronts.

Fair comments, but I'm not so confident that Ospreys would of won the league had they of got out of their HC group. When I say I'm not sure about their depth - what will the Ospreys do if Biggar gets injured for example? To my knowledge there is nothing behind him and as you point out is some positions the cover is academy standard. Leinster are for me the only side which has strong options in every position behind the first team. Leinster won the HC and made the Rabo final, Ospreys won the Rabo but didnt get out of their HC group. I would have Ospreys in the same category as Ulster who as Notch pointed out above, have a very strong first team, but a couple of injuries or having to compete in two competitions and the depth really comes into question and the results start to slip.

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:Notch, I fear that Pienaar's prolonged absence at the 4Ns could provide you with a major problem - he is the key to Ulster in whichever halfback role imo

We did ok last season despite missing Pienaar for a longer period than we will at the start of this season - this time we won't have others missing as well such as Afoa and Muller or our Irish players. I agree he is our most important player but I don't think things fall to pieces without him.

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:Notch, I fear that Pienaar's prolonged absence at the 4Ns could provide you with a major problem - he is the key to Ulster in whichever halfback role imo

Indeed.

But I think it will be good for Jackson. The observation was made by the new coach and Humph Snr. at a recent Supporters Event that Pienaar was taking too much responsibility when he was in the team. He needs to take some himself to grow as a 10.

Morgannwg wrote:Artful, Ospreys have a large squad which they had to rotate last year, eventually they won the league. More guys may be on Wales duty in this new season (such as Tipuric, Webb, Biggar and Beck who were vital to last seasons Rabo challenge); my assumption is the back-up to this backline axis is Habberfield, Morgan, Watermeyer who are all good players. They are pretty much covered everywhere else with experience or academy guys. I believe it is only them and Leinster with the strength to compete on both fronts.

Watermaeyer has been released mate, as has Gareth Owen. Outside Beck and Bishop we don't have any other centres in the squad.

15) Ross Jones
14) Hanno Dirksen
13)
12)
11) Luke Morgan
10) Morgan
9) Habberfield

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:Have seen a little bit of Matthew Morgan, but nothing of the others to speak of. What can you tell us about them?

The half-backs have had a little bit of Regional game time (a lot more in Morgans case) and have just come through the U20s system. Habberfield was the Wales Sevens scrum-half when not on Regional duty and was one of the best players out on the circuit whilst there. In the JWC his experience and tactical nous was very professional, he really stood out from the others in his team and the opposition. Watermeyer is from the Bulls in SA. I thought he had been re-signed but Alyn says otherwise. I have seen little of him but he looked good.

Artful_Dodger wrote:

Fair comments, but I'm not so confident that Ospreys would of won the league had they of got out of their HC group. When I say I'm not sure about their depth - what will the Ospreys do if Biggar gets injured for example? To my knowledge there is nothing behind him and as you point out is some positions the cover is academy standard. Leinster are for me the only side which has strong options in every position behind the first team. Leinster won the HC and made the Rabo final, Ospreys won the Rabo but didnt get out of their HC group. I would have Ospreys in the same category as Ulster who as Notch pointed out above, have a very strong first team, but a couple of injuries or having to compete in two competitions and the depth really comes into question and the results start to slip.

For a lot of the time in the League they were doing well because the guys were fresh out of the academy or premiership before they could be infected by Johnson and Holley. During the Heineken Cup they were a very different team to now, I put the blame for a terrible showing in Europe on those coaches. That and preperations were disrupted in Decemeber so Wales could play Aus. I see what you're saying. If Biggar is cropped then Morgan can step-up, but behind him there is Sam Davies and Dai Flannigan who are both terrible. And as Alyn has further pointed out there are no known centres as of yet. So perhaps next season they will not compete on the domestic and european front.

Artful_Dodger wrote:

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:Notch, I fear that Pienaar's prolonged absence at the 4Ns could provide you with a major problem - he is the key to Ulster in whichever halfback role imo

We did ok last season despite missing Pienaar for a longer period than we will at the start of this season - this time we won't have others missing as well such as Afoa and Muller or our Irish players. I agree he is our most important player but I don't think things fall to pieces without him.

&

Notch wrote:
Indeed.

But I think it will be good for Jackson. The observation was made by the new coach and Humph Snr. at a recent Supporters Event that Pienaar was taking too much responsibility when he was in the team. He needs to take some himself to grow as a 10.

Marshall/Jackson at pivot is fairly inexperienced tho? What depth is there behind them? I suppose you'll be looking to Paddy Wallace and Rog Wilson to calm the nerves if things start going wrong at halfback? I just think it's quite a big risk, but will be happy to be proved wrong. Last season, iHumphs, for all his failings, had bags of experience that meant he could guide Ulster thru the tougher times

Morgannwg wrote:

Have seen a little bit of Matthew Morgan, but nothing of the others to speak of. What can you tell us about them?[/quote]

The half-backs have had a little bit of Regional game time (a lot more in Morgans case) and have just come through the U20s system. Habberfield was the Wales Sevens scrum-half when not on Regional duty and was one of the best players out on the circuit whilst there. In the JWC his experience and tactical nous was very professional, he really stood out from the others in his team and the opposition. Watermeyer is from the Bulls in SA. I thought he had been re-signed but Alyn says otherwise. I have seen little of him but he looked good.

Artful_Dodger wrote:

Fair comments, but I'm not so confident that Ospreys would of won the league had they of got out of their HC group. When I say I'm not sure about their depth - what will the Ospreys do if Biggar gets injured for example? To my knowledge there is nothing behind him and as you point out is some positions the cover is academy standard. Leinster are for me the only side which has strong options in every position behind the first team. Leinster won the HC and made the Rabo final, Ospreys won the Rabo but didnt get out of their HC group. I would have Ospreys in the same category as Ulster who as Notch pointed out above, have a very strong first team, but a couple of injuries or having to compete in two competitions and the depth really comes into question and the results start to slip.

For a lot of the time in the League they were doing well because the guys were fresh out of the academy or premiership before they could be infected by Johnson and Holley. During the Heineken Cup they were a very different team to now, I put the blame for a terrible showing in Europe on those coaches. That and preperations were disrupted in Decemeber so Wales could play Aus. I see what you're saying. If Biggar is cropped then Morgan can step-up, but behind him there is Sam Davies and Dai Flannigan who are both terrible. And as Alyn has further pointed out there are no known centres as of yet. So perhaps next season they will not compete on the domestic and european front. [/quote]
Morgan, do I remember right that you are taking that risk again? I know that it will help fill the WRU's coffers but I worry about what effect it has on the regions?

Yeah I notice we have a December game in the Autumn. All teams play four times this year, unless Wales are starting their fixtures a week later than everyone else? Seems to be the same risk if so.

Morgannwg wrote:Yeah I notice we have a December game in the Autumn. All teams play four times this year, unless Wales are starting their fixtures a week later than everyone else? Seems to be the same risk if so.

Just 3 for Scotland, but that's probably cos nobody wanted to play us!

Oh yeah, very inexperienced halfbacks without Pienaar I don't dispute it. But we had the same halfbacks last year (part of the reason behind our meltdown in the RWC period was Humphreys got injured) with inexperience in the tight five and in the backline too. At least this time we'll have guys like Muller and hopefully Paddy Wallace to steady the ship. It's an argument Ulster fans have been having time and time again since Humphreys departure was announced; can Jackson cut it? I believe he can and will, others disagree.

The thing is, if our pack performs I don't think it'll be a problem for us. If the likes of Afoa, Wilson, Williams are going forward and we're scrummaging well and winning our lineout ball then I think our halfbacks could thrive. I'm sure they'll be targeted by opposition backrows and put under pressure but if the pack does the business I'm reasonably optimistic. That would be the main reason I am optimistic about our season. We have a very good tight five with good depth as well. We'll be starting with the first couple of rounds with;

1. Court
2. Brady
3. Afoa
4. Muller (c)
5. Stevenson
6. Williams
7. Doyle/Birch
8. Wilson

Then you have Rory Best, Stephen Ferris, Chris Henry and Dan Tuohy to come back in. Very exciting.

The major talking point for Ulster this season is going to be 10 most likely. For me, its exciting. We have one of the most talented young 10s in Europe. I'd much rather see what he can do now than have him rot on the bench. But a lot will depend on the fixture list. We can do without a hard first five games, thanks!

(Footnote, Humph had a shocker last season. Far from guiding us through games his kicking constantly put us under pressure. He was and is a good organiser of a backline in attack mind you, which is a very useful attribute, but in defence and his kicking from hand... yikes. He did weaken the team considerably until the inevitable happened. I don't think the coaches wanted to throw Jackson in at the deep end but Humph left them little choice. He became too much of a liability. People talk about Jackson having a bad game in the Heineken Cup final and write him off, but Humph had several games as bad as that... they just seem to get ignored because they were in the Pro12 and we won them)

Notch wrote:Oh yeah, very inexperienced halfbacks without Pienaar I don't dispute it. But we had the same halfbacks last year (part of the reason behind our meltdown in the RWC period was Humphreys got injured) with inexperience in the tight five and in the backline too. At least this time we'll have guys like Muller and hopefully Paddy Wallace to steady the ship. It's an argument Ulster fans have been having time and time again since Humphreys departure was announced; can Jackson cut it? I believe he can and will, others disagree.

The thing is, if our pack performs I don't think it'll be a problem for us. If the likes of Afoa, Wilson, Williams are going forward and we're scrummaging well and winning our lineout ball then I think our halfbacks could thrive. I'm sure they'll be targeted by opposition backrows and put under pressure but if the pack does the business I'm reasonably optimistic.

The major talking point for Ulster this season is going to be 10 most likely. For me, its exciting. We have one of the most talented young 10s in Europe. I'd much rather see what he can do now than have him rot on the bench. But a lot will depend on the fixture list. We can do without a hard first five games, thanks!

(Footnote, Humph had a shocker last season. Far from guiding us through games his kicking constantly put us under pressure. He was and is a good organiser of a backline in attack mind you, which is a very useful attribute, but in defence and his kicking from hand... yikes. He did weaken the team considerably until the inevitable happened. I don't think the coaches wanted to throw Jackson in at the deep end but Humph left them little choice. He became too much of a liability. People talk about Jackson having a bad game in the Heineken Cup final and write him off, but Humph had several games as bad as that... they just seem to get ignored because they were in the Pro12 and we won them)

What, you've signed George Ford, JJ Hanrahan or wee Duncy Weir? How did I miss that one?

Nah we've got the guy who forced Hanrahan out to 12

Morgannwg wrote:Artful, Ospreys have a large squad which they had to rotate last year, eventually they won the league. More guys may be on Wales duty in this new season (such as Tipuric, Webb, Biggar and Beck who were vital to last seasons Rabo challenge); my assumption is the back-up to this backline axis is Habberfield, Morgan, Watermeyer who are all good players. They are pretty much covered everywhere else with experience or academy guys. I believe it is only them and Leinster with the strength to compete on both fronts.

Watermayer has been released, but I still think the Ospreys will be more than able to compete in both the Rabbo and the HC, right off their young players at your peril.

The Welsh teams have lost some talent, but should make up for it by having their internationals available all year (more than it benefits the Irish who don't play their internationals as much)

So, I expect the Welsh teams to remain the same with 1/2 in the top 4 (Ospreys and Scarlets/Blues)

Of the Irish, Leinster will remain strong, Ulster will improve further and Munster to decline a bit (depending on if they can finally adapt their style from the O'Gara, Stringer, Wallace day - and use their new centres)

Glasgow should make the top 4 again, Edinburgh should improve.

Top 4 prediction

1. Ospreys (bit left-field, but they have Tandy for the entire year, may struggle in the backs with Wales callups though, so could be 2nd or 3rd)
2. Leinster
3. Ulster
4. Glasgow
5/6/7. Scarlets/Blues/Munster
8. Edinburgh
9. Treviso
10. Connacht
11. Dragons
12. Zebra

LordDowlais wrote:

Morgannwg wrote:Artful, Ospreys have a large squad which they had to rotate last year, eventually they won the league. More guys may be on Wales duty in this new season (such as Tipuric, Webb, Biggar and Beck who were vital to last seasons Rabo challenge); my assumption is the back-up to this backline axis is Habberfield, Morgan, Watermeyer who are all good players. They are pretty much covered everywhere else with experience or academy guys. I believe it is only them and Leinster with the strength to compete on both fronts.

Watermayer has been released, but I still think the Ospreys will be more than able to compete in both the Rabbo and the HC, right off their young players at your peril.

The Ospreys really should target the HC. With all their internationals, they are an excellent team. If Beck, Webb and Biggar are away with Wales the whole time, then they may find it challenging in the league during the Autumn and 6Ns.

I'm expecting a big improvement in Munster. The midfield and backrow will be stronger. Howlett is back too. They've probably the biggest squad in the Rabo league but of course a lot will depend on the first team and how Penney gets them playing.

Teams in the latter stages of the HEC will probably suffer a bit in the Rabo league. That needs to be taken into account too.

I'm really not sure if the welsh teams will be a massive improvement on last season.

Dragons have signed well, Scarlets, Ospreys and Blues have fantastic squads and all have new coaches.

maestegmafia wrote:I'm really not sure if the welsh teams will be a massive improvement on last season.

Dragons have signed well, Scarlets, Ospreys and Blues have fantastic squads and all have new coaches.

maes, I almost see your two sentences as being opposed to one another - if the Dragons have signed well and the other 3 have 'fantastic squads', is it the new coaching set-ups that are leading you to question whether there'll be much improvement on last season?

More whether the changes will be enough.

I think in the Ospreys and the Blues case we have a better coaching team, Scarlets will have to wait and see.

Dragons have signed good lads but still lack punch.



Hope that explains they contradiction with a touch more clarity.

I think Ospreys will defend their Pro12 title.

I'm going to be very boring and think the table will be very similar to last season - Ospreys and Leinster fighting it out at the top of the table then the usual suspects fighting it out between 3rd and 7th with only a few points between them - the only difference is that I reckon Edinburgh will by up and around the play off spots as well.
With the Blues and Scarlets it depends on how well the new signings/coaches bed in (and in the Scarlets case who they sign) - if the Scarlets can get a platform then they can do real damage - likewise if the Blues front row does well then their scrum could be a big weapon, with a good halfback pairing and an exciting back 3.

Unfortunately think it'll be a long season for the Dragons, with exciting backs/backrow players but hampered by a poor front 5/set piece.

Zebres will finish bottom - then Dragons, then Connacht/Trevisio then the big fight for the playoff spots.

1-2 Leinster, Ospreys
3-7 Munster, Ulster, Glasgow, Blues, Scarlets
8-11 Connacht, Edinburgh, Dragons, Treviso
12 - Zebre

Yeah I know that is pretty much how the table finished at the end of last season. I think that the HEC, and who gets out of their groups will have an impact in the league.

Equo Troiano wrote:

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:Yeah, I think some of the smaller squads will struggle to compete on two fronts

All the more reason not to qualify them automatically for one of the fronts then isn't it...

Such a shame that it isn't anything to do with the league - nevermind, eh?

maestegmafia wrote:Dragons have signed good lads but still lack punch.

I don't often disagree with one of your comments but, I think the Dragons will be a lot weaker this season. So many of their better players have left, Faletau looks off form and Lydiate can't take a beating every week like he does for Wales. Those 2 kids cant carry the Dragons all season. The Dragons took some real shaftings last season and I don't expect that to change this season.

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:Just 3 for Scotland, but that's probably cos nobody wanted to play us!

The IRB window is only 3 weeks, Scotlands problem is so many of their players play outside of their 2 clubs so making a competitive team without all their other players would be hard.

I don't know why (well misplaced blind optimism aside), but I think the Dragons won't do as badly as what people seem to think. We were garbage last season and still should probably have finished around 7th/8th. Get our home form back (not too difficult) and we could easily get back up there.

No point me speculating positions as there's plenty of time for signings etc.

Faletau isn't really off form. He had one poor test (where he got injured) and then went home. Was in good form for the Dragons before that (albeit not at Ryan Jones' level). Tom Brown who stood in for him at 8 is a capable replacement (indeed a few Dragons supporters didn't want Toby to come back in straight after the 6 Nations thanks to Brown doing well enough for us). With regards to our transfers out, we may miss Tovey (though he clearly didn't want to be there at times), but Brewy was pretty poor last year (and I think Prydie will be a handy player for us), we didn't see Charteris much and have replaced Martyn Thomas pretty well (on paper anyway).

Way too early for this. I could see Ulster getting back into the playoffs and Munster slipping out, hoping Connacht push on a bit too, they had some big performances but struggled to deliver consistency. Expect a few 6-3 wins with Parks in the driving wind and rain of the Sportsground!

Write Edinburgh off at your peril - we've recruited wisely (well almost)! We've picked up some great non Scots players in regular Cheetahs starters WP Nel and van der Westhuizen. And I think you'll see a renewed Ritchie Rees and Ben Atiga. All our young Scots players will be on they're second/third season.

Well anyway, I think next seasons Rabbo will be a stand out season, season ticket sales look to be improving across the board, stronger national sides, and far more competitve regions/provinces. The Celtic league is now finally starting to take shape, don't get me wrong, it is still not the finished article, but we are definatley getting there. I predict a very intense season next time around with quality young Celtic players comming to the fore, all I need now is for it to start, all the rain and crap summer without rugby is doing my head in.

I hope Dragons will prove the doubters wrong, excite to have Prydie in the squad. If we utilize Chavanga more we can cause some more upsets.

munkian wrote:I hope Dragons will prove the doubters wrong, excite to have Prydie in the squad. If we utilize Chavanga more we can cause some more upsets.

The Dragons are not as crap as some people are making out, one or two astute signings in the forwards and they will challenge for a HC spot, but I think the playoffs are a bridge to far but they could have a deciding factor on who can get there.

So questionable that we managed to be you lot at in your own back yard and win a grand slam, also it is only a matter of time before the Ireland national team get it right, as they cannot dominate domestically like they are and still be "in disarray" as you put it at international level forever. Scotland are coming off the back of an unbeaten tour of the SH and Italy are miles ahead of where they were when they first joined the six nations, they ran you lot pretty close in Rome this year didn't they ? The Rabbo (Celtic) league is coming on leaps and bounds weather you like it or not, and I for one am enjoying the ride, so you can live in your Aviva Prem bubble all you want as not only is our league catching up I believe it will emulate it within the next few years.

Yes, that is why I said "catching up", the Rabbo is still in its infancy and most of the teams are more than equal to the teams in the Aviva, all it is lacking in is support, but that looks like it could be changing with all the season ticket news I am hearing about, Also, you admit that the national sides have improved so what is your problem ? Also, please do not patronise me and by telling me to "behave lad", how old are you ? I am glad not all English fans are like you, as you really do live up to the stereotypical arrogant English rugby supporter, you have come on to a topic that has nothing to do with English rugby and you are trying to turn it into a "my league is better than yours" argument, I am not getting drawn into that as there have been countless threads already covering that argument. For the record, I know exactly what emulate means that is why I used it, and you can stick your IRB rankings where the sun doesn't shine as you did not get to fourth by actually winning. When you next beat Wales then you can come on here and patronise me.

Equo Troiano wrote:LOL.

Hook. Line. Sinker.

GIT

Equo Troiano wrote:Apart from Wales beating England in their own back yard (just), not much else rings true.

Read his quote again Equo - I will highlight the facts for you.

LordDowlais wrote:So questionable that we managed to be you lot at in your own back yard and win a grand slam, also it is only a matter of time before the Ireland national team get it right, as they cannot dominate domestically like they are and still be "in disarray" as you put it at international level forever. Scotland are coming off the back of an unbeaten tour of the SH and Italy are miles ahead of where they were when they first joined the six nations, they ran you lot pretty close in Rome this year didn't they ? The Rabbo (Celtic) league is coming on leaps and bounds weather you like it or not, and I for one am enjoying the ride, so you can live in your Aviva Prem bubble all you want as not only is our league catching up I believe it will emulate it within the next few years.

Equo - are you rally that bored that you need to go fishing?

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