Rabo direct and Aviva premiership table prediction

RD
1.Leinster
2.Glasgow
3.Ospreys
4.Ulster
5.Munster
6.Scarlets
7.Treviso
8.Dragons
9.Blues
10.Connacht
11.Edinburgh
12.Zebre

AP
1.Tigers
2.Sarries
3.Northampton
4.Glouster
5.Exeter chiefs
6.Bath
7.Quins
8.Wasps
9.Newcastle
10.Worcester
11.Sharks
12.London irish

Thoughts? And one else have a go?
Any young players going to break out onto the scene?

The missing piece of the Edinburgh team is a coach. They have significantly better players than your prediction gives them credit for.

Get some tactics to compliment their Strengths and Edinburgh are a handful for any team to deal with.

Not brave enough to go for a full prediction just yet, especially with Edinburgh coachless.

My AP prediction:

Saracens
Leicester
Bath
Northampton
Harlequins
Gloucester
Exeter
Sale
Wasps
Newcastle
London Irish
Worcester

Leicester will be outside the Top 4 at the end of the AIs

Ill settle for either of those predicitons

I think the top 6/7 in the prem could be any order...everyone seems to be strengthening very shrewdly...

Rabo
1. Glasgow (Final Winners)
2. Leinster
3. Blues
4. Ulster
5. Scarlets
6. Ospreys
7. Connacht
8. Edinburgh
9. Treviso
10. Munster
11. Zebre
12. Dragons

Jeff
1. Saints
2. Glos
3. Sarries
4. Tigers (Final Winners)
5. Chiefs
6. Quins
7. Wasps
8. Bath
9. Sale
10. Newcastle
11. Wuz
12. Irish

I'm not overly certain of the comings and goings in the Rabo this summer, so will only have a stab at the AP final table.

1. Saracens
2. Leicester Tigers
3. Northampton Saints
4. Bath
5. Gloucester
6. Harlequins
7. Exeter Chiefs
8. London Wasps
9. Sale Sharks
10. London Irish
11. Newcastle Falcons
12. Worcester Warriors

I'd like to think it could be this

Tigers (stronger for signings)
Sarries (losing more to England now with 2x Vunipola)
Saints (always there or there abouts. Fotuali potentially a huge signing)
Bath (hoping we now have the power upfront and a lack of Donald Duck!)
Quins (struggling without JJ)
Exeter (solid as always)
Glos (losing Burns to England might hurt them even more)
Sale (put together good form towards the end)
Wasps (Wentzel, Billy and Taulafo big losses in pack)
Worcs (some good signings will see them through)
Falcons (might scrape it due to strong defence and home record)
Irish (just lost too many key players)

1. Leinster
2. Ulster
3. Ospreys
4. Glasgow
5. Munster
6. Scarlets
7. Treviso
8. Blues
9. Edinburgh
10. Connacht
11. Dragons
12. Zebre

The top 4 could be any order. Leinster have the strongest squad but with a new coach there may be teething problems. Munster are just as likely to be above or below my prediction. They have one of the stronger squads. But do the take the Rabo as seriously as the other big teams? Scarlets and Treviso are good but not good enough to challenge for the title. Blues and Edinburgh seem rudderless. Connacht have lost McCarthy an important player and Elwood, who is a great coach in my opinion. Dragons are weak and Zebre are just plain sh!te.

I don't know enough about the English club scene to contribute anyhting useful there (unlike the rest of you!) but here is my Pro12 prediction:

Leinster
Glasgow
Ulster
Ospreys
Munster
Scarlets
Treviso
Edinburgh
Blues
Connacht
Dragons
Zebre

I think the top 3 will be out on their own although Glasgow will suffer if they qualify from the HC group.

Dragons 11th even with new coaching staff and a load of new players i think they will become 3rd best region and midtable finish. Its the blues im worried about

I think Sarries, Tigers, Quins will be the top 3 in the AP. The reduction of the importance in the hit and the now significant bind will nullify JJ's influence at the scrum and so Quins may not miss him as much as they thought.

They are the only three teams with the squad depth to weather an entire attritional AP season and be in the top 3 with any degree of certainty.

Bath, Saints, Glaws and possibly the Chiefs will all be chasing 4th. I'd have said Worcester were safe but the removal of Hill throws that one wide open. LI have a good team but there was no consistency in performance last season.

I think we will struggle for consistency again this year Sam. Our first choice pack is going to be solid enough, but their back ups are either inexperienced or not really very good, which means injuries will hit hard again. Our backline looks as if it could hurt teams but it will all depend on how much decent ball the pack can give them.

I think it will be desperately close between us, Sale, Worcester and Falcons as to who goes down.

I have a sneaking feeling that Sale might be quite good next season. Diamond is cutting away any element of the squad that could be considered either lightweight or not a work horse (Cips excepted). I can imagine they'll be physical, organised and a real pig to play against next season. There's some nice mobility to their side as well so they may even show some more attacking intent.

I'll be interested to see how Lewington goes for your boys. He should have had more game time last season.

For what its worth Premiership squad sizes below. If the number is wrong for your club just shout, I might have missed some transfers and some might include academy players so could be wrong.

Bath - 40
Exeter - 42
Gloucester - 37
Harlequins - 34
Leicester - 40
London Irish - 35
London Wasps - 36
Newcastle - 39
Northampton - 36
Sale Sharks - 39
Saracens - 41
Worcester - 37

How I think table will end up next season:
1. Saracens
2. Tigers
3. Quins
4. Saints
5. Bath
6. Gloucester
7. Exeter
8. Wasps
9. Worcester
10. Newcastle
11. Sale
12. Irish

Rabo will be in four bands, where each team pretty much stays in their band and doesn't climb high enough ot drop low enough to change bands.

Ulster, Leinster, Glasgow
Ospreys, Scarlets, Munster, Treviso
Blues, Dragons, Connacht, Edinburgh
Zebre

I will take a punt at the final standings being

Ulster
Leinster
Glasgow
Scarlets
Ospreys
Munster
Treviso
Connacht
Dragons
Blues
Edinburgh
Zebre

Quins, Sarries, Tigers, Top 3.

I don't understand the optimism for Bath Ok they are have brought in a lot of player but so did Sale last year and look what happened to them 6 or 7th would be a fair assessment for them. I think Glaws and the mighty Chiefs will be challenging for 4th place

Quins will be in the bottom third.

Just the Rabo.

Glasgow - looked strong at the end of the season and have retained their squad. Tough HC group could work out in their favour.
Ulster - will stay at roughly the same level, but Afoa could be a big loss
Munster - have a young and improving side and hopefully the return of POC
Leinster - will be a difficult year without Sexton, Schmidt and Isa. Some players aren't getting any younger and squad is thin in places. Even so will finish in top 4.
Ospreys
Treviso - becoming harder and harder to beat
Scarlets
Blues
Connacht
Edinburgh
Dragons
Zebre

I think in the AP there is the top 2 - Saracens and Leicester. So tough to call who will be tough.

Then a chasing pack of Saints,Quins,Gloucester,Exeter and Bath.

3rd-7th I think will be a real dog fight.

Below that you have Wasps and Sale who I think will be one of 8th/9th.

Newcastle/Worcester - 10th/11th

London Irish - favourites for relegation.

If I had to predict then

1.Saracens
2.Leicester
3.Bath
4.Saints
5.Quins
6.Gloucester
7.Chiefs
8.Sale
9.Wasps
10.Worcester
11.Newcastle
12.London Irish.

rosbif Sale brought in people but most signings weren't actually that good. Bath should deliver a top 4 this season but 3rd-7th I think is very tight.

anyone who thinks bath will be top 4 is deluded

We'll see logansrun38. Bath with their squad should do well next season.

Thanks for the insightful and well thought out comments logansrun, top drawer.  

It will be interesting to see as the season gets close who the bookies have as favourites to top the tables and to go down.

Bath have 2 " inexperience " FHs a pivotal role at least Donald had a WC badge there is potential there but it has to be turned into a team. Having said that its the only prem team Exeter hasn't beaten yet

ScarletSpiderman wrote:Rabo will be in four bands, where each team pretty much stays in their band and doesn't climb high enough ot drop low enough to change bands.

Ulster,  Leinster,  Glasgow
Ospreys, Scarlets, Munster, Treviso
Blues, Dragons, Connacht, Edinburgh
Zebre

I'd say 4 bands like the following.

Teams capable of winning it: Leinster, Ulster, Glasgow, Ospreys, Munster
Capable of making the playoffs: Scarlets
Mid table teams: Connacht, Treviso, Blues, Dragons, Edinburgh
Struggles to win any game: Zebre

Profitius, i agree with your bands, especially the possible winners, although I think Munster and Ospreys are unlikely to finish in the top two/three slots, but could win the league if they can make the playoff spots.

ScarletSpiderman wrote:Rabo will be in four bands, where each team pretty much stays in their band and doesn't climb high enough ot drop low enough to change bands.

Ulster,  Leinster,  Glasgow
Ospreys, Scarlets, Munster, Treviso
Blues, Dragons, Connacht, Edinburgh
Zebre

I will take a punt at the final standings being

Ulster
Leinster
Glasgow
Scarlets
Ospreys
Munster
Treviso
Connacht
Dragons
Blues
Edinburgh
Zebre

Haha, Scarletfever-tastic.
We haven't finished shopping yet by the way so lookout.

Dave, not a dig at the Blues honest. Just think Edinburgh can not be that bad again, and the Dragons due a real turn around under Kingsley and Lyn. Guess it just shows how tight I think the league is now.

1 Ospreys
2 Munster
3 Leinster
4 Glasgow
5 Ulster
6 Blues
7 Treviso
8 Scarlets
9 Connacht
10 Dragons
11 Edinburgh
12 Zebre

No crystal ball but I feel some sides will do better than expected and others will do worse...and even if one side has a bad year by their standards and another one has a good one, that can play havoc with the final table for many sides.  I think Munster might have a bite back year and throw this year's hot tickets around the table more than some are predicting.

Then again, I could be completely wrong!

The Rabo graded teams are :-

1. Leinster/Ulster /Glasgow

2. Munster/Ospreys/ Scarlets

3. Cardiff/ Treviso

4. Connacht/Edinburgh/Dragons/Zebre

So could finish in any combo within these grades.

Edinburgh just might be runners up in the 1872 cup !   

For the AP:

1) Saracens
2) Tigers
3) Gloucester
4) Saints
5) Quins
6) Bath
7) Chiefs
8) Wasps
9) Newcastle
10) Sale
11) Irish
12) Worcester

SecretFly wrote:
No crystal ball but I feel some sides will do better than expected and others will do worse...and even if one side has a bad year by their standards and another one has a good one, that can play havoc with the final table for many sides.  I think Munster might have a bite back year and throw this year's hot tickets around the table more than some are predicting.

Then again, I could be completely wrong!

Yup, I'd be surprised if Munster don't make the top 4 this season. Munster have a big squad and there are loads of competition for places this season. I think that will improve the performances in the league. They should also be more comfortable with the gameplan and be better for the experience of last season. And POCs back! The gameplan is the big one. I can see Penney persisting on the wide wide game and if that doesn't work out it'll cost Muster league position. JJ Hanrahan and Keatley are more suited to it though than ROG so it should be interesting.

Who have Munster brought in for next season? They looked a touch reliant on the survivors of the goldern generation last season.

ScarletSpiderman wrote:Dave, not a dig at the Blues honest.  Just think Edinburgh can not be that bad again, and the Dragons due a real turn around under Kingsley and Lyn.  Guess it just shows how tight I think the league is now.

Eh?
You have predicted Edinburgh finish last but one.
It's the Amlin for your lot I reckon. The Os will be best of breed leaving us and the Dregs limping into the HEC. That is my prediction anyway.

As much as the Dragons will probably improve, I don't know if the Blouse will be as bad next season (highly unlikely) and the Scarlets aren't likely to drop that badly down to fourth Welsh region. To be honest, next season I would settle for an 8-9th place finish, 4/6 wins in the Amlin minimum and a good LV cup run, as that would be a good improvement. Then 2014/15 season look to build again.

Risca Rev wrote:As much as the Dragons will probably improve, I don't know if the Blouse will be as bad next season (highly unlikely) and the Scarlets aren't likely to drop that badly down to fourth Welsh region. To be honest, next season I would settle for an 8-9th place finish, 4/6 wins in the Amlin minimum and a good LV cup run, as that would be a good improvement. Then 2014/15 season look to build again.

Wow. About time you Dregs fans started to demand more from your team.

Cardiff Dave wrote:

ScarletSpiderman wrote:Dave, not a dig at the Blues honest.  Just think Edinburgh can not be that bad again, and the Dragons due a real turn around under Kingsley and Lyn.  Guess it just shows how tight I think the league is now.

Eh?
You have predicted Edinburgh finish last but one.
It's the Amlin for your lot I reckon. The Os will be best of breed leaving us and the Dregs limping into the HEC. That is my prediction anyway.

Good point, i put the blus in the wrong place, meant to below Embra, but be happy to proven wrong. No HEC for anyone season after ndxt, but if its on Ospreys /Scarlets only, and the rest in the Amlin.

ScarletSpiderman wrote:

Cardiff Dave wrote:

ScarletSpiderman wrote:Dave, not a dig at the Blues honest.  Just think Edinburgh can not be that bad again, and the Dragons due a real turn around under Kingsley and Lyn.  Guess it just shows how tight I think the league is now.

Eh?
You have predicted Edinburgh finish last but one.
It's the Amlin for your lot I reckon. The Os will be best of breed leaving us and the Dregs limping into the HEC. That is my prediction anyway.

Good point, i put the blus in the wrong place, meant to below Embra, but be happy to proven wrong.  No HEC for anyone season after ndxt, but if its on Ospreys /Scarlets only, and the rest in the Amlin.  

No worries. It's only the rabo in any case. Linking up with the English is the way forward.

Cardiff Dave wrote:

Risca Rev wrote:As much as the Dragons will probably improve, I don't know if the Blouse will be as bad next season (highly unlikely) and the Scarlets aren't likely to drop that badly down to fourth Welsh region. To be honest, next season I would settle for an 8-9th place finish, 4/6 wins in the Amlin minimum and a good LV cup run, as that would be a good improvement. Then 2014/15 season look to build again.

Wow. About time you Dregs fans started to demand more from your team.

Yeah. Look where 'demanding more' got you lot and your move to the big time CoC stadium.

Surely the best thing for the Dragons would be incremental improvement year on year. Organic growth allowing them to retain their home grown talent and in over the course of that improvement better foreign stars will be drawn to the club allowing the continuation of the improvements. 8th or 9th might work for them next season, all they need to do is leapfrog the Blues and then they could be in whatever the HEC replacement is (depending on the settlement). A strong Amlin competition would also build the following as all fans love a cup run.

formerly known as Sam wrote:Who have Munster brought in for next season? They looked a touch reliant on the survivors of the goldern generation last season.

They've brought in a South African flyer called Gerhard van den Heever, a Stormers wing. At least I've heard its a done deal. They've also brought in Andrew Conway, also a winger from Leinster. Other than that I'm not sure. CJ Stander barely got a chance last season so in some ways he might have the same effect as a new signings this coming season.

Stone Motif wrote:

Cardiff Dave wrote:

Risca Rev wrote:As much as the Dragons will probably improve, I don't know if the Blouse will be as bad next season (highly unlikely) and the Scarlets aren't likely to drop that badly down to fourth Welsh region. To be honest, next season I would settle for an 8-9th place finish, 4/6 wins in the Amlin minimum and a good LV cup run, as that would be a good improvement. Then 2014/15 season look to build again.

Wow. About time you Dregs fans started to demand more from your team.

Yeah.  Look where 'demanding more' got you lot and your move to the big time CoC stadium.

Ouch, but we all should be demanding more shouldn't we?
We're back at CAP though at least. In any case, with regards to the CCS debacle, PT didn't want to know the thoughts of the supporters at the time. Neither did the WRU or the press or a certain property developer who i'd gladly kick in the goolies given the chance.

Artful_Dodger wrote:

formerly known as Sam wrote:Who have Munster brought in for next season? They looked a touch reliant on the survivors of the goldern generation last season.

They've brought in a South African flyer called Gerhard van den Heever, a Stormers wing.  At least I've heard its a done deal.  They've also brought in Andrew Conway, also a winger from Leinster.  Other than that I'm not sure.  CJ Stander barely got a chance last season so in some ways he might have the same effect as a new signings this coming season.

Yeah, its mainly the new players coming through. JJ Hanrahan, Dave O'Callaghan, Stander etc. Andrew Conway is a good winger and Earls and POC will also be back.

Pains me to say as an Irish fan, but I think we will be bottom. The squad looks decent, but overall slightly weaker than last year. Everyone else around us seems to have added a lot of strength and depth. Although I can see us picking up a few results, I just can't see anyone else finishing bottom

1. Saracens
2. Leicester
3. Northampton
4. Exeter
5. Harlequins
6. Gloucester
7. Bath
8. Wasps
9. Worcester
10. Sale
11. Newcastle
12. Irish

That's me depressed before we've even started then

SirBurger wrote:Pains me to say as an Irish fan, but I think we will be bottom. The squad looks decent, but overall slightly weaker than last year. Everyone else around us seems to have added a lot of strength and depth. Although I can see us picking up a few results, I just can't see anyone else finishing bottom

1. Saracens
2. Leicester
3. Northampton
4. Exeter
5. Harlequins
6. Gloucester
7. Bath
8. Wasps
9. Worcester
10. Sale
11. Newcastle
12. Irish

They've dropped down a long way alright. Is it a money problem?

16th May 2009, LK lose in the final of the Premiership by just one point, with the following line-up:

15 Peter Hewat
14 Adam Thompstone
13 Delon Armitage
12 Seilala Mapusua
11 Sailosi Tagicakibau
10 Mike Catt
9 Paul Hodgson
1 Clarke Dermody
2 Danie Coetzee
3 Richard Skuse
4 James Hudson
5 Bob Casey
6 Declan Danaher
7 Steffon Armitage
8 Chris Hala'ufia

16 Alex Corbisiero
17 James Buckland
18 Gary Johnson
19 Richard Thorpe
20 Elvis Seveali'i
21 Peter Richards
22 Tom Homer


Not many left at the club.

4 to be precise LT. Tagicakibau, Homer, Danaher and Hala'ufia. We seem to be in a permanent state of transition over the last 4 seasons, with no end to it in sight. We need to pick up points whilst the weather is good and we can play open rugby utilising our backs, as once the bad weather sets in, I would struggle to back our forwards in a dogfight.   

Which is rather unfortunate Ozzy because with Homer kicking any penalties you pick up in the opponents half are points. You've at least got a good young hooker off us for next season.