Haye... Heavyweight Champion of the World!!

Haye was an outstanding cruiserweight champion but let’s remind ourselves of his foray into the heavyweight division.

Tomasz Bonin....a pole who knocked over tomato cans for a career.

Monte Barrett....a 37 year old journeyman who’d lost 3 of his last 6 going into the bout. Consequently, Barret, in his subsequent fight lost to Solis in 5 minutes (rather than the 5 rounds it took Haye).

Nicolai Valuev... perhaps the worst boxer in history to hold a title…EVER... at any weight!! He was truly appalling!! A freak of nature, utterly rubbish like a eunuch working as a gigalo. He was coming off a terrible win against a 46 yo ancient Evander Holyfield. It must also be noted that Valuev had lost on occasion, but got the decision due to him being a circus act who generated money. Haye won by retreating… I mean making him miss.

Then it was onto 38 year old Johnny Ruiz for "The Quiet Mans" retirement fight… Seven years early this man had become the first heavyweight champion in history to lose his title to a middleweight. That was bad but now he was old!

Then it was onto Audley Harrison….Really? Do I need to say anything?

After that farce he talked his way into a bout with Wlad and attempted to use the same tactics that he used against Valuev.... except he forgot that Wlad could fight a little bit...and he had a bad toe.

Now its Delboy, which is Hayes his first fight at heavy, against a live opponent, which he has a chance of winning.

And thats it for the Legacy of David Haye the former heavyweight champion of the world. Did i forget to mention he was a great cruiserweight champion?.....No, really, he was quite good!

I thought I would say he was Great to give the article a bit of balance..( or otherwise risk being branded a Haye hater). If I was branded a Haye hater then the context of the article would be lost.

The last line sums up my true thoughts.... He was quite good.

Well I think you are all being harsh on Haye. He was sent by the heavyweights of yesteryear to save the division and beat those Ivan Drago clones as he called them. And lets not forget John Ruiz wasnt a bad fighter 15 years prior to the Haye fight...

In his defense, he's been clearly outweighed by all his opposition at heavyweight so far hasn't he?

Some fair points but also a little harsh..

Ok, Tomasz Bonin and Monte Barrett, where just warm up fights as he stepped up to heavy weight... and he disposed of them easy.

Saying Nicolai Valuev is the worst heavy weight of all time may be right in a boxing sense, but he was still huge which made him a difficult opponent, he also did not lose lots of fight and get the nod anyway, but he did Rob Holyfield. Also his boxing abilities did improve over time.

Haye still went to his country and beat him which most failed to do. Also being the first to really hurt and rock him.

Ruiz, was past his best, But he was very durable and tough... the way Haye dealt with him was pretty solid. Although you got the feeling Hayes power at Heavy weight did not look as strong as before, as Ruiz took allot of powerful shots before it was stopped and even manage to get stuck in and have a go at Haye after he went down in the first or second round..

Over all at this point I would say Haye had one very good fight and another decent fight at Heavyweight.

Then Audley, now we can mock and laugh at Audley for his short comings, but who has ever blasted him out of there like and over powered him like that before? No one.

Then he comes up against the best Heavyweight in the world and of a generation and while looses convincingly, never looked like being stopped, gave WK some tricky moments and probably done more than anyone else has done in recent years.

Now he faces someone who would have probably beaten all of those guys apart from WK who beat Haye and maybe Valuev who Haye just about beat.

so for me its fair to Say that outside of the K's Haye is the most dangerous Heavy weight out there but maybe not as clear but as some think.

I think Chisora has a chance to make an upset and one thing about this fight is it really will be a good way of seeing where Haye really is as a heavyweight.

Agree that this is a bit harsh on Haye, the first two were acceptable warm ups in one opinion. He beat what was in front of him in Valuev,and beaty him well. Was Ruiz his mandatory? whatever he beat him easily, and he's not the first champ to have an easy couple of defences. He told everyone that he would destroy Audley and it would be utterly one sided-and so it was. He lost to Wlad, but was better than most against a dominant champion. His legacy as it stands is no worse than many former champs- Bent, Seldon, Valuev etc etc,and if, as I exppect he will, he goes on and beats Chisora he may well end up carrying on and winnnig another title, so who knows what his legacy will be. The shame is that I expect that his ambition doesn't match his talent. I know that i'm probably in a smalll minority here, but I honestly think that he has a huge amount of talent (as did Angelo Dundee) but doesn't love the game enough to fulfill it.

Valuev is not just the worst heavyweight champion in the world, he is the worst champion in history. And to say he improved, well i don't know what to say. Ive seen kids hitting bags for six months better than him. All it took to beat him was for Adam Booth to devise an obvious plan of running to make him look bad. Guy's like Chagaev, Ruiz and Holyfield were never going to run from him. They were all too brave, but some will say stupid as they all fought the wrong fight. Valuev really is the worst boxer in history, imagine if he was the same size as his opponents? Peter Buckley's record would be fantastic in comparison.

Ruiz was washed up, finished, and rightly retired after.

Haye has fought one great heavyweight, one washed up decent heavyweight, ran from a circus act who couldn't box for toffee, Monte Barret, Bonin and A-Farce. These are facts.

I think people are defending his accomplishments at heavyweight because they are still embarrassed by being taken in by him.

@ Horizontalhero

I have no doubt that he's talented, the problem is, he just shouldn't be showcasing his talents at heavyweight... or talking about how great he is and deceiving the general public.

where should he show case them then? Cruiser weight is the worst division in boxing, and he would earn way less money fighting men even worse than he is at heavyweight. Rightly or wrongly, heavy weight is where the money and the glory are, and that's not Haye's fault. As for him talking himself up, I agree he comes across as a muppet, but if the general public are fooled, then more fool them. Those of us defending his accomplishments aren't embarrassed by be taken in by him, no one's claimed his opponents are anything more than they are, but with the exception of Wlad he's disposed of them in a manner fitting their status, and whilst he lost to Wlad that was hardly an upset-most observers had Wlad as the favorite. It seems to him that it is those who don't like him that have difficulties judging his accomplishments.
As for Valuev, he's up against some very stiff competition for worst champ ever, and whilst your point that if he was normal size his record would be worse is correct, the fact is that he is that size, and as a consequence is not easy to beat. And I still maintain there have been worse alphabet champs that have failed to make a single defence of there title. Please explain to me why his is worse than Michael Bent for example?

horizontalhero wrote:Please explain to me why his is worse than Michael Bent for example?

...or Primo Carnera?

Boxtthis wrote:

horizontalhero wrote:Please explain to me why his is worse than Michael Bent for example?

...or Primo Carnera?

Don't diss Da Preem

Size is very much a part of boxing so it can't be ignored to try and suit your argument.

I have the same opinion of Haye, pre and post the wlad fight, firstly that he is a knob and secondly that he is the third best heavy in the world. He just underlined the gulf. I don't think he has any love for the sport. I wish he had of been more active and went after the other contenders, it'd be way more exciting than watching the bros do it.

tunes666 wrote:Some fair points but also a little harsh..
Then Audley, now we can mock and laugh at Audley for his short comings, but who has ever blasted him out of there like and over powered him like that before? No one.

I'm pretty sure he was decked in a savage manner against Sprott first time around...

He did indeed SP, For me Haye can and will receive no credit for the Audley fight, Audley is a poor, poor fighter with a deserved reputation for failing to deliver, any heavyweight of even moderate ability should be getting shut of him in short order, Haye did this but I cannot bring myself to praise a heavyweight "champion" for dealing with him as quickly as Michael Sprott.

TheMackemMawler wrote:Valuev is not just the worst heavyweight champion in the world, he is the worst champion in history. .

If he was that bad why didn't Wlad unify the titles when his bro retired?

Not trying to big Haye's achievements up too much but, whilst Valuev was technically limited, he was titanic in stature and the dominant champ(s) of the time wanted no piece of him (yeh, yeh, DK was massaging him to Rocky's record...blah blah). And, whilst he lost (by a several round margin), to Wlad he still performed better than any other challenger in 5yrs+.

Good CW and average HW in a weak era.

Now now Top hat putting blah blah after an oft repeated argument does not render it incorrect.

It seems you either have to be the best ever or you're rubbish. Haye was a decent HW who lost to a guy who in the next few years will go down as a top 10 ATG. No shame in losing to Wlad at all.

Hatton gets pilloried for losing to Floyd and Pac. Come on, get a grip. Those two are genuine ATGs and Hatton was a good fighter in any era.

rowley wrote:Now now Top hat putting blah blah after an oft repeated argument does not render it incorrect.

haha sorry Rowley, knew it when I wrote it but just couldn't help it when such an obvious defence would undoubtedly be rolled out irrespective of its accuracy.

I don't think Haye is a rubbish heavyweight by any means but I don't think he is a particularly good one simply because his record does not support him being considered one thus far. His best win to my mind is Valuev who is no great shakes and had already been beaten just as comfortably by Chagaev and Holyfield but for some poor judging.

Guess what grinds my gears with Haye is the assumption that so many pass off almost as gospel that he is the best of the rest outside of the brothers, am not saying he is not but genuinely don't think he has the record to confer him this status automatically and would much prefer him to actual get his hands dirty and prove the status is warranted.

Just making a general rant. Haye is nothing more than a decent HW with a loud mouth which makes him interesting. I like his attitude in seeking the best ie champions. He probably is the best of the rest or even #2 as he will comprehensively beat Vitali should they ever square up.

haye's tactics for valuev werent pleasing to the eye, but they were spot on.
boxing isnt about getting your head down and throwing wild shots at each other in a telephone both. its about hitting and not being hit. haye executed that beautifully over 12 rounds after injuring his right hand pretty early in the fight.

The problem is that when a boxer is disliked, people refuse to be objective.

A large number of people dislike Haye because if his mouth, but forget that he has been his own promoter and as such promotes the fight in anyway he can. He knows he if shouts and screams the general public will buy the hype he creates, seems strange to call him a knob as a previous poster has done when he's just doing his job and is very likely different away from the sport.

I agree with rowley. Hayes greatest attribute seems to be convincing people to buy what hes shoveling, even in the face of overwhelming counter evidence.

His record is very mediocre when broken down and I think hes basically about making as much money as possible in the shortest space of time. Hence why there are so few actual contenders on his record. He uses his mouth to bypass these guys but the result is we are unlikely to ever find out if his average record undersells him or not.

From what Ive seen of him, in terms of names on record and actual performances Ive never been really wowed. His power made him quite formidable at cruiser, but at heavyweight his all round ability has been slightly inflated I think. Ive a suspicion hes overly reliant on power which is what made a formidable cruiserweight into an ordinary heavyweight.

Imperial Ghosty wrote:Size is very much a part of boxing so it can't be ignored to try and suit your argument.

Size is extremely important.... so much so that it offset the fact he can't box.

In a division with a weight limit, no one could survive with his skill set.

I'm not changing anything to suit any argument. He is big, he can't box. Thats just the way it is.

TopHat24/7 wrote:

TheMackemMawler wrote:Valuev is not just the worst heavyweight champion in the world, he is the worst champion in history. .

If he was that bad why didn't Wlad unify the titles when his bro retired?

Not trying to big Haye's achievements up too much but, whilst Valuev was technically limited, he was titanic in stature and the dominant champ(s) of the time wanted no piece of him (yeh, yeh, DK was massaging him to Rocky's record...blah blah). And, whilst he lost (by a several round margin), to Wlad he still performed better than any other challenger in 5yrs+.

Good CW and average HW in a weak era.

yeah Wlad avoided Valuev, are you crazy? no one avoided valuev.

I wouldnt really agree with Haye in terms of opposition. He would happily fight bums if the money was right I think. Hence the Audley fight, and now Chisora - a joke who lost 3 fights in row and was supposedly well below Hayes radar. I think Haye just follows the money. Most of the guys he has been labelling bums for the last few years are better than anything on his record.

Both of the Klitschko brothers avoided Valuev, as their usual height / weight / reach advantages would have been negated.

Funny how they only started going on about wanting all the belts in the family once Haye had picked the giant's pocket.

TheMackemMawler wrote:

TopHat24/7 wrote:

TheMackemMawler wrote:Valuev is not just the worst heavyweight champion in the world, he is the worst champion in history. .

If he was that bad why didn't Wlad unify the titles when his bro retired?

Not trying to big Haye's achievements up too much but, whilst Valuev was technically limited, he was titanic in stature and the dominant champ(s) of the time wanted no piece of him (yeh, yeh, DK was massaging him to Rocky's record...blah blah). And, whilst he lost (by a several round margin), to Wlad he still performed better than any other challenger in 5yrs+.

Good CW and average HW in a weak era.

yeah Wlad avoided Valuev, are you crazy? no one avoided valuev.

Why didn't Wlad fight him then? Why didn't he unify all the belts in his brothers absence?? Union's post explains why, and the usual DK guff is exactly that.

Union Cane wrote:Both of the Klitschko brothers avoided Valuev, as their usual height / weight / reach advantages would have been negated.

Funny how they only started going on about wanting all the belts in the family once Haye had picked the giant's pocket.

I can only disagree. I have no more proof than you either way.

However I do know chagaev can beat Valuev, an ancient Holyfield can go to the death with him, Ruiz can put his bait up, and Haye beat him.

I really can't see any reason why either Wlad or Vit would avoid him. It would have been a pointless exercise to call him out, as Valuevs promoters would not let him go into a fight he would obviously lose. He was a side show cash cow why let him fight an impossible fight?

How do you know Valuev would have accepted the fight? He was the prtected champ. Not vice versa.

Its a bit of a joke that this fairly poor albeit oversized heavyweight who fought nobodies is the guy that gets the pass and supposedly had the Klitschkos avoiding him.

1. Vitali was barely around when Valuev was a champion for starters.
2. Valuev lost the title to Chagaev a year after Wlad began his second stint as world champion. Chagaevs injury kept the title on ice for ages.
3. Valuev shafted Chagaev for the belt and scraped by Ruiz for the vacant. Elected to fight and barely beat Hilyfields corpse before losing it Haye.

Wlads unified three of the belts. Hardly the sign of someone avoiding the issue. Hes beaten the two fighters that beat Valuev and several others that were better than Valuev.

If I was a betting man I would hazard a guess that on the evidence it looks like the DOn King/Sauerland manufactured Valuev was more likely to be the one avoiding the unifications.

I second that!

2 vs 1 then, you must be right.

Union Cane wrote:2 vs 1 then, you must be right.

2-2

I'm just saying it how I see it, it is also perfectly possible that King didn't want the K-Bros near his WBA cash cow after they rumbled his piano trick.

Ive always thought the bros avoided valued too, was only once hate beat him that they mentioned him. Without the size advantage they aren't left with much.

To be fair Wlad would be ok if he were smaller, I would imagine if you shrunk him down and his speed and mobility increased (as it would) then he would be too disimilar to Carlos Monzon.

That is fairly insulting to monzon who was better in every single department to wlad.

other than Monzons ability to throw uppercuts and hooks there are many similarities.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQ2B0gXIiRk

His ability to fight inside and out, his resilience, his bodywork, his variation, his work rate, power in both hands apart from wlad having a good jab there is very little comparison.

Wlad and Valuev could never fight - both signed to diff channels

Wlad has power in both hands too, both have a great jab, a good right hand, a long reach, have similar footwork (relative to size) and have poor head movement (although monzon actually moved his albeit poorly).

I agree with you in some respect, I said Monzon could throw hooks and uppercuts (which naturally adds the variation, body punching, and inside fighting you speak of).

The resilience factor and heart are major differences, as too is stanima. However, when Monzon fights at range there are similarities in their style...apart from the differences of course!!

There were instances when they were similar but overall they are very different, can't say I've ever seen too much power in wlads left hand.

more than enough instances of Wlad's left hand power in this link...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OJ9PVZWjUQ8

alot of decent uppercuts and hooks also....

funny what you can do with a 3 minute highlight video.......

true

I'd rather base my opinion on them as a whole rather than isolated instances when looks can be deceiving.

Imperial Ghosty wrote:I'd rather base my opinion on them as a whole rather than isolated instances when looks can be deceiving.

I'm not trying to change your opinion mate, I was giving you an example of Wlads left hand power which you said you hadn't seen.

My opinion of Monzon is based on youtube clips and a couple of my Dads old VHS tapes. I was born after he retired.

If i was born when he fought memory is often tainted with nostalgia anyway, especially when boxing is involved..