Now that the RFU board has been finally been resrtuctured, they must now pay attention to reorganising Elite Rugby.

[Portnoy]

With Beaumont now in the Chair, the first thing on the agenda (after sorting out their essential ticketing arrangements and divvying up the jollies) must to turn their attention to elite rugby.

A drains-up on elite performance should be the first item on the agenda.

Rob Andrew must be summoned kicking an squeaking for a grilling. At least one day for each of:

1. International.
Andrew to be grilled on :
International coach/manager selection, support and the role of the DoER to manage and influence the incumbent to optimise English International performance.

A players' code of conduct relating to on and off-field activities - providing structure to expected both aspirant and existing English players as to what are the mandatory required of personal behaviour with guideline ranges of expected sanctions.

Fitness levels: A review of physical fitness levels of players - how to re-establish the English paramouncy of physical toning.


Current performance standards: To be addressed to SL
SL's position is firm, but still in its infancy so I suggest a review some time after the next 6Ns should be require a major review particularly in respect to SH performances. However, I suggest that anything less than a 6Ns championship should be deemed a relative failure in an even year. A routine, stiff
SI's/AIs/6Ns debrief to be initiated. Any problems like injuries, player burn-out, positional lack of depth etc. to be permanently on the agenda and rigidly reviewed.

2. Elite (Jeff and Championship) performance:

The necessity (or not) to negotiate/establish a system of central contracts in England with full wage cap compensation to players' clubs and players' rights to avoid burn-out.

European performance.

The DoER's role in reversing the alarming decline in English clubs' competency to compete in the latter stages of the HEC

Promotion: The lack of an unequivocal protocol.

The balance of influence and power between the RFU, PRL and the DoER.

3. Elite player development

The lack of a national academy to develop the skills (both physical and psychological) age-groups (U20 downwards) crème de la crème to hot-house (but not pressure cook) blooming flowers.

Feeder clubs - to develop and promote two-way formal contracts between clubs to associate themselves with higher league sides with appropriate financial/player compensation with regard to EQ players.

[hugehandoff]

Any thoughts on Beaumont's appointment? Is he a good man for the job? With the ex-Wimbledon Chief Executive on board as well can we be reassured that the RFU finally have some good people at the top. With England's large player base there has always been the feeling that if we get the structure right we will do better than we have done. All your points above are valid and if we are moving into a professional era in terms of RFU management then we might have a chance of maximising our potential. Until now it seems our administrators have been very much the old farts in blazers with no understanding of the modern game and they have been responsible for holding us back for far too long. I will wait to see how things develope before making any rash judgements.

[Portnoy]

Any thoughts on Beaumont's appointment? Is he a good man for the job? With the ex-Wimbledon Chief Executive on board as well can we be reassured that the RFU finally have some good people at the top. With England's large player base there has always been the feeling that if we get the structure right we will do better than we have done. All your points above are valid and if we are moving into a professional era in terms of RFU management then we might have a chance of maximising our potential. Until now it seems our administrators have been very much the old farts in blazers with no understanding of the modern game and they have been responsible for holding us back for far too long. I will wait to see how things develope before making any rash judgements.

Quite honestly I feel that Beaumont is an old fart. The question is whether his fart silent and deadly.

Squeaky has been silent and supplicant for six years and has masterminded a regime of bugger all.

[HammerofThunor]

1. I thought the England coach was directly responsible to Richie. It's got nothing to do with Andrew. If the Code of Conduct (which already exists) is to do with International players then it's got nothing to do with Andrew. Ditto regarding fitness.

2. Well I'm sure it'll be part of negotionations when the EPS deal comes up for renewal in after WC 2015. However I doubt the clubs would go for central contracts. Also the majority of the clubs would never go for direct payments without any smoothing.
HEC, alarming decline? We've averaged around 2 QF in the HEC generally. The last couple we've had one. Before that we had 3. Most of the discussion at the moment will be regarding what format the HEC will have if any. Take Leinster out of the equation for the last few years and we've had two finalists. They're an just way better than everyone else at the moment. But that's down to resting their best players , easy league and getting good foreigners in , there's nothing we can do about that ( ).

3. Why would we want more formal feeder clubs? Isn't the system working relatively well for the premiership teams at the moment? What would formal feeder clubs bring to the table? Would it be regional based? What happens if someone is relegated/promoted? What would be the point? The only problem with the dual registration at the moment is that some clubs rely on them and if the players are recalled to their main club they're screwed.

[Guest]

At the national level, the aim should be to ensure (as far as possible) that selected players return to their clubs improved by their experiences playing for England. I believe Richard Cockerill has said in the past that this isn't currently the case. IMHO this is a large part of the reason that English clubs are struggling to compete in the HC at the moment. If England were to introduce a sane selection policy clubs would have better, more experienced players available.

At the club level, the focus should be on growing the game. In my opinion the best way of doing this is with a competitive, exciting premiership, and central contracts would diminish that. Its clear from the London Welsh fiasco that the RFU need to do much more to help smaller clubs, the likes of Nottingham, Coventry and the Pirates for example.

I wouldn't trust the RFU to run a bath at the moment, let alone an academy. The RFU should certainly be speaking more to the academies though, helping to co-ordinate and raise standards etc. Clubs have a much better idea of what it takes for a player to make it at the highest level.

[AlastairW]

Its clear from the London Welsh fiasco that the RFU need to do much more to help smaller clubs, the likes of Nottingham, Coventry and the Pirates for example

I've been thinking much the same for a little while. If we want a true 'relegation' and 'promotion' system in a top level premiership then the RFU needs to step in with grants, or a system that makes for true competition. It is that in name only at the moment. The truth of the matter is that Wasps and Falcons should have gone into the championship at the end of the season and LW & pirates (I think?) gone up, with grant support from the RFU to bring their facilities up to scratch.

This support would do great things at a local level, it could be used for coaching training, school & grass roots finals, etc, etc. It's that which is the definition of organic growth.

Not only that, but the whole arguement the English clubs have at the moment about pulling out of the arragement in the HEC is completely undermined if it turns out there is a ring fencing in place in all but name. In short, the whole thing is a bit of a farce at all levels at the moment and it's doing no good to anyone from idiots like me that get squashed on a field for a laugh through to the top end professionals. Desperatley needs addressing.

[maestegmafia]

Any thoughts on Beaumont's appointment? Is he a good man for the job? With the ex-Wimbledon Chief Executive on board as well can we be reassured that the RFU finally have some good people at the top. With England's large player base there has always been the feeling that if we get the structure right we will do better than we have done. All your points above are valid and if we are moving into a professional era in terms of RFU management then we might have a chance of maximising our potential. Until now it seems our administrators have been very much the old farts in blazers with no understanding of the modern game and they have been responsible for holding us back for far too long. I will wait to see how things develope before making any rash judgements.

Quite honestly I feel that Beaumont is an old fart. The question is whether his fart silent and deadly.

Squeaky has been silent and supplicant for six years and has masterminded a regime of bugger all.

What has Rob Andrew done that is so relevant to him being accused of all that is wrong in the english game. So many people hang him out to dry and I'm still wondering why?

If you guys have an good answer I would really like to read it.

Cheers

[Portnoy]

For me it's the inaction rather than action that stands out. He's failed to liaise and negotiate effectively with the clubs (and the PRL) to create a financial compensation package for international players (including for me, central contracts and match-time agreements like the IRFU have), to cordinate an elite national development academy in parallel with the clubs, and to de-fuse the ticking time bomb that was always inherent in the Jeff promotion issue. He is responsible for not developing strict and defined player conduct codes for players. And for disappearing when MJ was hung out to dry post 2011 RWC.

If hard, difficult graft to be done, don't look for Squeaky - he won't be anywhere near.

Bring on SCW to gve his slippery arse a good kicking...

[maestegmafia]

For me it's the inaction rather than action that stands out. He's failed to liaise and negotiate effectively with the clubs (and the PRL) to create a financial compensation package for international players (including for me, central contracts and match-time agreements like the IRFU have), to cordinate an elite national development academy in parallel with the clubs, and to de-fuse the ticking time bomb that was always inherent in the Jeff promotion issue. He is responsible for not developing strict and defined player conduct codes for players. And for disappearing when MJ was hung out to dry post 2011 RWC.

If hard, difficult graft to be done, don't look for Squeaky - he won't be anywhere near.

Bring on SCW to hive his slippery arse a good kicking...

I'm not sure whether your wishes were even part of his? England's clubs seem very against central contracting as do the RFU.

I can't see why you think Clive Woodward would be any better at the job of liaison between PRL, Clubs and the RFU.

[Portnoy]

For me it's the inaction rather than action that stands out. He's failed to liaise and negotiate effectively with the clubs (and the PRL) to create a financial compensation package for international players (including for me, central contracts and match-time agreements like the IRFU have), to cordinate an elite national development academy in parallel with the clubs, and to de-fuse the ticking time bomb that was always inherent in the Jeff promotion issue. He is responsible for not developing strict and defined player conduct codes for players. And for disappearing when MJ was hung out to dry post 2011 RWC.

If hard, difficult graft to be done, don't look for Squeaky - he won't be anywhere near.

Bring on SCW to hive his slippery arse a good kicking...

I'm not sure whether your wishes were even part of his? England's clubs seem very against central contracting as do the RFU.

I can't see why you think Clive Woodward would be any better at the job of liaison between PRL, Clubs and the RFU.

maes, wasn't it you that recently described as a one trick pony? Forgive me if I'm wrong.

SCW's credentials as a sports administrator will become publicly evident come the Olymics are over.

The question is - will the new RFU board be man enough to give him the necessary backing?
Unlike their 2004/5 counterparts.

[Shifty]

Appointing him is a bit like appointing Martin Johnson as your coach, yes there may be many videos of him hoisting cups and all sorts of championships in an illustrious career, but does he have the experience of professional rugby to sort this shambles out?

No one would say he can't do the job based on his playing accomplishments but I guess only time will tell if he can sort Twickers out.

[emack2]

Bill Beaumont is an excellent PR choice and was a great Player,he was also narrowly defeated as IRB chairman so certainly highly though
t off.THAT would seem to indicate some level of competence.Firstly how many of the RFU members have changed from the Pre RWC debacle.Am I alone in thinking that Martin Johnson and co. were the victims of RWCMedia hysteria.
Reality was England were never realistic RWC contenders,and MJ `s only crime
was loyalty to his players.Discipline was no worse on the whole than those of many countries including the Hosts.Difference was how the relative Countries dealt with the offenders.
That is water under the bridge,The England set up is settled,Rob Andrew is now marginalised and responsible for Development outside of the main team.
In fairness "Squeeky"did a fairly good job with Developing grassroots,age group,and A side teams.
If they have the power RFU to spend more time looking at the Club Scene,encourage more Academy development rather than picking
off SH talent in stead.As to the Blazers they will get there perks come what may.

[AlastairW]

... If they have the power RFU to spend more time looking at the Club Scene,encourage more Academy development rather than picking
off SH talent in stead...

+1

This feed into my arguement earlier about giving grants in a genuine promotion/relegation systems to clubs that proove their worth. Get movement on good facilities for these clubs (and feeder clubs to an extent), get in the school clubs, develop the grass roots all the way up through to elite player academies. Build it and they will come and all that.

For all his faults, mainly bloodgate. Dean Richards developing and pushing for a Quins academy is now paying its dividends with COS keeping a predominantly English team, a lot of which came up through their own academy. Results? Amlin challenge one year, AP silverware the next. Promote excellence and eventually we'll be pushing for world top 3.

[Big]

I think the main thing with regards to Squeaky is that we need to be clear what he actually does and what he is responsible for. His job descriptions seems to change at least once or twice a year, and I've struggled to find anything in the public domain clarifying what exactly it is as and when it does change. The only bit that was very clearly his was negotiating the EPS agreement, which has faults but is I suppose an improvement on where we were.

If we knew in advance that Rob Andrew had little/no control over the national set up but was responsible for the EPS, academies, age group, 7s and Saxons - we'd probably be fairly happy with what he is doing. Results for those teams are pretty good, and the academies do appear to be producing a lot of good young players now. We could probably field a competitive international team with all players under 25 - something very few other nations could manage.

However, if he is in any way responsible for the national set up and to some extent premiership rugby there are a fair few balls ups and problems that he is responsible for. It's not surprising that he is hugely unpopular if all we get is a shrug of the shoulders and 'Nothing to do with me guv' whenever anything goes wrong.

[maestegmafia]

maes, wasn't it you that recently described as a one trick pony? Forgive me if I'm wrong.

SCW's credentials as a sports administrator will become publicly evident come the Olymics are over.

The question is - will the new RFU board be man enough to give him the necessary backing?
Unlike their 2004/5 counterparts.

What SCW achieved with England he did with the strongest squad that England has ever had. The teams that those players came from we're dominant too. SCW might be good at nurturing but from a coaching point of view he hardly turned a rabble into a world force.

With the Olympics it would be a crying shame if we accolade one man for the hard work of tens of thousands of people who grafted to make this happen.

I do see whySCW is a figurehead of English rugby Culture, but there is no reason to think he would be any better than Rob Andrew at getting agreement between club and country for the good longevity and success of both. Remember there were several pay disputes and player strikes under SCW, how can that be evidence of performance?


I am not writting this to degrade SCW or fight Rob Andrews corner, but what I will say is that I think Rob Andrew is made a scapegoat for failings by the RFU that he has had nothing to do with. We all know that the RFU and the structure of professional English rugby needs a re-check and maybe a re-think. But with or without Rob Andrew will make little difference in my opinion.

[Guest]

The thing I admire about SCW is the way he approached the game. He was a successful businessman as well and has a very business-like way of looking at things that makes me think of some sort of ruthless City of London firm. They had him on The Rugby Club a while back, and hearing him talking about accountability and so on was a real contrast to the current RFU.

The problem with Andrew is that he's overseen failure after failure without being held accountable at all for it. From the awful way in which Brian Ashton was let go, to the appointment of Martin Johnson, he always seems to be front and centre to take the plaudits, but nowhere to be seen when the disasters happen.

[HammerofThunor]

I thought Andrew wanted to keep Ashton and was forced to take on Johnson by the board. The issue with Johnson was that Andrew seemed to offer little support for him, especially at the end.

[Beaker]

I thought Andrew wanted to keep Ashton and was forced to take on Johnson by the board. The issue with Johnson was that Andrew seemed to offer little support for him, especially at the end.

Yep that's how I understood it too. Some may feel that once was he was over-ruled by the board, he should of walked away as a matter of principal but that makes little or no sense to me. Andrew like most has done some good things and some bad but in a climate of finger-pointing, blame and scapegoating, someone must be held up, hung out and generally shafted for all our ills and it looks like Andy's the man for many.

[emack2]

Does any one actually know how many actual changes there has been at the RFU board.Besides Bill Beaumont would people like to see the same restictions on Overseas Players imposed as in the Super Franchises?One established and one young hopefull per side from Overseas.i.e not eligible for the national side.Think of the chaos that would cause in France if it applied to top14 and the
number of SH players would have to stay at home.

[HammerofThunor]

This has been done to death. There is a current restriction on 'foreign' players of 2 players per match day squad. However this doesn't include EU, kolpak, etc players. The way others do it by linking the limits to the significant funding from the unions. The clubs are less reliant on the RFU funding (the RFU does give incentives to include EQ players).

There are more than English players playing regularly in the premiership. Any forced quotes would do one of two things, drop the standard drastically for all teams, or a couple of teams would buy up all the good English players and there would be a massive drop in quality from the top couple (much bigger than exists now). All so that a load of really average English players get to play at the top level.

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