Will England ever win the World Cup again. Discuss.

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super_realist wrote:Peter, not sure England are a top team, so wouldn't be one of the top five on current form.

No, they're in the top 4.

Surely by very definition"on form" the top teams will make the semis? Isn't that what form means? Same in any sport, the best 4 teams at the time will make the semi finals of a tournament, unless a good team had ye bad luck to be knocked out by an excellent one, but either way the best team is almost certain to win

Not always. If England get thought it's because they were lucky and caught the other side on a bad day.

Ah. I forgot.

SR joins the rugby party- good stuff. Btw england are offcourse a top team

England won't win a world cup until they start keeping the ball on the deck, change their youth system, they need to place a massive emphasis on youth development and in underage on skills rather than results. Gettign rid of the likes of Terry, Johnson Downing and Milner will help. Oops wrong thread!



The rugby team, of course they will have a chance as will most other 6N teams. They need to improve a few things, they are a year or two from being a very, very good side.

Nice on Thomond, v.funny

Thomond wrote:
The rugby team, of course they will have a chance as will most other 6N teams. They need to improve a few things, they are a year or two from being a very, very good side.

France isnt most other sides.

Its all ifs:

If Wales can keep this squad going...and develope that killer instinct to finish off teams...then they could potentially win in 2015.

England are getting the basics right...but have shown zero attacking intent. If the cluster of kids coming through can fulfill their potential we could certainly be a threat.

France always have a chance. Its just which team turns up.

Ireland...are maybe a little further down the line...as players like BOD, O'Connell come towards the end of their careers. Can these be repalced.

Scotland have proved they can more than match teams up front...and in Rennie, Gray, etc have some serious players. They have always lacked any kind of flair or creativty in recent years....however this now appears to be getting addressed...and given a few years exposure to top flight rugby...Scotland could be quite a proposition....

So whilst its all about "if's and but's" i dont see why any of the 6n teams bar Italy couldnt potentially be a challenge in a few years time.

"however shallow my in depth analysis of RWC may appear it is nevertheless entirely accurate"

No its not. You have forgotten that England got to the final in 1991 and lost to the Aussies.

That puts a very different complexion on things.

Still I suppose you wanted to make up a story and a pure 'story' is what you did.

No disrespect to David Sole's side-think they won a Grand Slam the year before-but England were pretty lucky to get Scotland instead of Australia in the semi and were the third best side at the tournament.

lucky what the heck lol

Good job England are world class at being lucky - better to be lucky than good.

Swings and roundabouts really. Everyone gets good and bad luck. A lot of times a team plays (marginally) better than the other but not well enough to take luck out of the equation. Was luck that helped England avoid the ABs in the 03 semi, luck that SA avoided NZ and Aus in 07, luck that NZ avoided SA in 11. Still got to beat the teams in front of you.

England were so lucky to be on the receiving end of Jannie DeBeers five drop goals in Paris in 1999. World record drop goals in a RWC ? Probably.

They were also on the receiving end of Brian Ashton

Plus you lot ran into our No. 11 in the 95 semi in pretty good form. Rather he ran over you lot in pretty good form.

Was only referring to the 91 tournament quip from EG4E. Ah well fun to stir the pot sometimes.

Disney, yes, it still hurts. England lucky ? err yeah...
Don't mind you stirring the pot. We are all men on here.. well mostly... so we can take it.

What's up Gregortree?

Haven't seen you around for a while.

Biltong, nice to hear from you. It is the rugby quiet season in UK, so not posted for a while, although I see the bickering fizzes up once in a while with nothing fresh to bicker about. I see we are dredging back to 1991 for material. But its all cycling & Olympics here at the mo. (and no, you do not need don't bring up the cricket score). But take care mate, I will look in here once in a while, to defend England's honour. And Gloucester.

Cheers mate, condolences on the cricket, couldn't have been nice to watch.

As much as i hate to say this but England have a better chance than the rest of the home nations because they have a different menatlity and approach to the game. English rugby just seems to be more mentally stronger than the rest. They may get done in a 6N but on the biggest stage i just feel that they are mentally stronger.

Billy, like in that Guinness advert England 'believe'. Partly I guess because they have been there before, and so have a strong belief they can go again. Our critics in recent years say our belief is bigger than our talents would justify, and at times I would not have disagreed. But I now think I see a new generation of talent building which will do justice to the belief. Time will tell. This AI and next 6n, for starters.

BTW: oh and Billy, welcome back man, so glad they put you back together again after your terrible ordeal.

The facts are simple to win a RWC you have to beat every one you meet.Simplistic?no you don`t have to beat the best side in the Comp if you don`t meet them 2007 proved that.England currently are probably depending on the day.Second or Third best in the NH,i`m an Anglo-Scot and if the AllBlacks my first choice team don`t win it,Then England or Scotland please.England have home advantage but that has only helped the Best two teams in the World [by the record]win one.Wales are currently te best in Europe[at least until 6Ns 2012]France on there day probably second but that is never consistent.
In theory 5 of the 6Ns plus the 3Ns should qualify from there groups but BECAUSE Argentina.Nearly always qualify there is a group of death,and there are always suprise results.One like Ireland beating Australia turned the whole RWC 2011 around.The same is going to happen 2015,the other thing is the RWC curse.Teams play balanced sensible Rugby until they reach a RWC then its up your shirt ,risk nothing,kick and chase,kick goals etc.David Campese was complaining that it was pointless OZ having great wingers if they got the ball!.

emack why the heck to you support the allblacks if your british- you sir is a wrongon

Who I choose to support,like my opinion is my own business.I have supported the AllBlacks for over 60 years since 1953-4,at the time Wales had beaten them 3 times.The Boks were then the Best side in the world in case you are accusing me of jumping on a winning bandwagon.Unlike some here I did`nt just start supporting England /Scotland post 2003 but since 1953 and I STILL do,
I was as proud as any when England when they won in 2003,it isn`t a problem the teams seldom meet .I sir am NOT a Wrong on nor do I wear Blinkers and think England are the best side in the World.In 4 years they could be realistically 8 years is needed to build a RWC team.MYSTIROAKEY I come here to debate rugby ,NOT my Allegiances or Prose style.You are CYRIL and I claim my £5 !!!

Hear hear emack! You're not a wrong in or a googly. It's not uncommon what emack does. Just watch all the SA locals supporting the ABs when they play over there. The ABs get more supporters turn up when they walk though SA airports than they do in AKL.

ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo. someones getting annoyed.

EBOP wrote:Hear hear emack! You're not a wrong in or a googly. It's not uncommon what emack does. Just watch all the SA locals supporting the ABs when they play over there. The ABs get more supporters turn up when they walk though SA airports than they do in AKL.

Just the same as ENG fans cheering on Tuilagi and the other foreign imports from NZ like Hartley, or supporting the "English" cricket team. What is about nationality? Nothing anymore. Is just about preference. So who can judge?

no its not the same lol..

mystiroakey wrote:ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo. someones getting annoyed.

Whooooooooooooo?

Nah, seriously, it's not uncommon. Thought it was strange myself at first, but when you hear some of the reasons behind fans' decisions as to who they support, it often makes sense. And awop is right, what gives anyone the right to judge.

It's like those that just love tiger woods, I can't see how anyone could, but people do and good for them.

EBOP the simple fact is if your gonna support another team- then accept the ribbing! thats all.

Its clear why people may support woods. he is black for one. Golf is very much a white middle class sport -so seeing someone different who is that good is going to attract new fans. Secondly he just is that good at the game so again he will naturally get fans. I like woods as a player- but i do like to laugh at him as well- he has become the perfect pantomine villian of the sport with his off course antics and his on course attitude

Wow, the this thread took a wrong turn

I dont care who wins the next RWC, just as long as its not those pesky South Africans

Luv ya biltong

mystiroakey wrote:EBOP the simple fact is if your gonna support another team- then accept the ribbing! thats all.

Its clear why people may support woods. he is black for one. Golf is very much a white middle class sport -so seeing someone different who is that good is going to attract new fans. Secondly he just is that good at the game so again he will naturally get fans. I like woods as a player- but i do like to laugh at him as well- he has become the perfect pantomine villian of the sport with his off course antics and his on course attitude

I know mate

Think some of the things you said about woods, ironically mirror the ABs.

Theyre all black, they're that good that they attract new fans, and people like to laugh when they choke.

Anyways, bit off topic. Despite the fact I don't have much love for English rugby, I think they are always a threat at the WC, probably more so than ever going forward.

eirebilly wrote:Wow, the this thread took a wrong turn

I dont care who wins the next RWC, just as long as its not those pesky South Africans

Luv ya biltong

It is OK Billy, we booked 2019. We like to give other teams opportunities to win as well, we have secretly agreed to win it every 12 years.

You didn't really think it was Bryce Lawrence that lost us the match last year did you?

Those forward passes, allowing Heinrich Brussow to be taken out, not winning fast ruck ball, it was all just a way to ensure we don't win.

Even that last penalty that gave OZ the lead was orchestrated, Danie Rossouw had no choice but to pull the Ozzie down in the line out, we did hope the kick would go over, otherwise it might have become too obvious, with us already having had 75% of the posession, but it worked out OK in the end.

Bryce Lawrence to referee every South African match from this day on

eirebilly wrote:Bryce Lawrence to referee every South African match from this day on

good to have you back billy, I have missed our early morning banter, things have gone sensitive around here.

biltongbek wrote:

eirebilly wrote:Bryce Lawrence to referee every South African match from this day on

good to have you back billy, I have missed our early morning banter, things have gone sensitive around here.

Sensitive? Whys that?

This place was always great for a laugh and some banter

eirebilly wrote:

biltongbek wrote:

eirebilly wrote:Bryce Lawrence to referee every South African match from this day on

good to have you back billy, I have missed our early morning banter, things have gone sensitive around here.

Sensitive? Whys that?

This place was always great for a laugh and some banter

Let me put it this way, I now am very careful who I joke around with and which topics I post on.

biltongbek wrote:

eirebilly wrote:

biltongbek wrote:

eirebilly wrote:Bryce Lawrence to referee every South African match from this day on

good to have you back billy, I have missed our early morning banter, things have gone sensitive around here.

Sensitive? Whys that?

This place was always great for a laugh and some banter

Let me put it this way, I now am very careful who I joke around with and which topics I post on.

Yeah dont go on those South Africa threads mentioning the time Tigers beat them.....

bilt best thing to do is get rid of your blue status and set yourself free

biltongbek wrote:
Let me put it this way, I now am very careful who I joke around with and which topics I post on.

Thats sad but as a South African, arent you used to walking on egg shells?

mystiroakey wrote:bilt best thing to do is get rid of your blue status and set yourself free

Mystir I considered it, but have decided I ain't going to allow some ...... dictate to me how i should and what I should do. I beleive I bring a lot to the forum in my "blue" uniform and will continue to be as fair and unbiased as I can be.

It probably took me a while to realise you are in for more criticism when you are a moderator and getting used to the scrutiny was something I had to adjust to.

eirebilly wrote:

biltongbek wrote:
Let me put it this way, I now am very careful who I joke around with and which topics I post on.

Thats sad but as a South African, arent you used to walking on egg shells?

I am the son of superman Billy, I don't walk, I float.

biltongbek wrote:

mystiroakey wrote:bilt best thing to do is get rid of your blue status and set yourself free

Mystir I considered it, but have decided I ain't going to allow some ...... dictate to me how i should and what I should do. I beleive I bring a lot to the forum in my "blue" uniform and will continue to be as fair and unbiased as I can be.

It probably took me a while to realise you are in for more criticism when you are a moderator and getting used to the scrutiny was something I had to adjust to.

Ha haa, i remember the day clearly when you were made a Mod biltong, the rugby board was closed within an hour. Shoite man, that still makes me laugh

biltongbek wrote:

eirebilly wrote:

biltongbek wrote:
Let me put it this way, I now am very careful who I joke around with and which topics I post on.

Thats sad but as a South African, arent you used to walking on egg shells?

I am the son of superman Billy, I don't walk, I float.

We all know where you get the propulsion to float from as well you smelly begger

eirebilly wrote:

biltongbek wrote:

mystiroakey wrote:bilt best thing to do is get rid of your blue status and set yourself free

Mystir I considered it, but have decided I ain't going to allow some ...... dictate to me how i should and what I should do. I beleive I bring a lot to the forum in my "blue" uniform and will continue to be as fair and unbiased as I can be.

It probably took me a while to realise you are in for more criticism when you are a moderator and getting used to the scrutiny was something I had to adjust to.

Ha haa, i remember the day clearly when you were made a Mod biltong, the rugby board was closed within an hour. Shoite man, that still makes me laugh

I remember that day too, it was during the Six Nations, and the anti this and that was flying all over the place.

Bilty , if there were mod awards and we voted - You would be up there...This rugby forum feels like its been infiltrated and has a weird aura about it these days. Golf and films are allways good for banter though

biltongbek wrote:

eirebilly wrote:

biltongbek wrote:

eirebilly wrote:Bryce Lawrence to referee every South African match from this day on

good to have you back billy, I have missed our early morning banter, things have gone sensitive around here.

Sensitive? Whys that?

This place was always great for a laugh and some banter

Let me put it this way, I now am very careful who I joke around with and which topics I post on.

My mind is as long as you don't mention Wales then you are fine. And if you mention Wales to say "Which Welsh player is the most world class?" then you will be ok. Otherwise you will get response to a hail of complaints about how you are just some WUM. They should write advising this to the site rules Biltong. Can you suggesting to the moderator group?