The England World Cup Thread

by **LondonTiger** Sun 13 Sep 2015, 10:06 pm

Fixtures

ENGLAND 35 FIJI 11

ENGLAND v WALES at Twickenham Stadium, London
Saturday 26th September 2015 – Kick Off: 8:00pm
Referee: Jérôme Garcès (FFR)

ENGLAND v AUSTRALIA at Twickenham Stadium, London
Saturday 3rd October 2015 – Kick Off: 8:00pm
Referee: Romain Poite (FFR)

ENGLAND v URUGUAY at Manchester City Stadium, Manchester
Saturday 10th October 2015 – Kick Off: 8:00pm
Referee: Chris Pollock (NZR)

Other Pool A Fixtures

Sun 20th September 2:30pm Wales v Uruguay Millennium Stadium, Cardiff
Wed 23rd September 4:45pm Australia v Fiji Millennium Stadium, Cardiff
Sun 27th September 12:00pm Australia v Uruguay Villa Park, Birmingham
Thu 1st October 4:45pm Wales v Fiji Millennium Stadium, Cardiff
Tue 6th October 8:00pm Fiji v Uruguay Stadium MK, Milton Keynes
Sat 10th October 4:45pm Australia v Wales Twickenham Stadium, London

Table

England P1; W1; L0; D0; PF35; PA11; Points 5
Australia P0; W0; L0; D0; PF0; PA0; Points 0
Uruguay P0; W0; L0; D0; PF0; PA0; Points 0
Wales P0; W0; L0; D0; PF0; PA0; Points 0
Fiji P1; W0; L1; D0; PF11; PA35; Points 0

Team for next Match

TBC

by **LondonTiger** Sun 13 Sep 2015, 10:08 pm

So, Bomber announces his team tomorrw 9maybe) and soon the phoney war is over.

Can we try and keep discussions around He Who Must Not Be named to a minimum. There are 154 other players in this pool.

by **LondonTiger** Sun 13 Sep 2015, 10:49 pm

Nick Easter has stated he is ready and willing to step into the breach should injury occur(especially if his £35k bonus is guaranteed? Run

).

Who do people think are next in line should injury happen to a player?

Prop - corbs, whether TH or LH?
Hooker - Hartley maybe, surely not LCD
Second row - Attwood
Number 8 - Easter
Tom wood - Croft a LFL replacement?
Haskell/robshaw - Clark?

SH - Dickson was in extended squad, but maybe simpson
FH - Cipriani
Centres - Burrell probably, but if JJ injured would hope they may look at Daly
Wings - roku, Yarde and Ashton were all in the extended squad
FB - Could cover from wings already in squad but could be risky. Who is next on the block if, say, Brown is concussed again?

by SecretFly Sun 13 Sep 2015, 10:51 pm

looking forward to seeing Burgess operate in a real contest.................

........................

...what? Why you all looking at me like that?

by **Rugby Fan** Sun 13 Sep 2015, 11:46 pm

LondonTiger wrote:Who do people think are next in line should injury happen to a player?

Prop - corbs, whether TH or LH?
Hooker - Hartley maybe, surely not LCD
Second row - Attwood
Number 8 - Easter
Tom wood - Croft a LFL replacement?
Haskell/robshaw - Clark?

SH - Dickson was in extended squad, but maybe simpson
FH - Cipriani
Centres - Burrell probably, but if JJ injured would hope they may look at Daly
Wings - roku, Yarde and Ashton were all in the extended squad
FB - Could cover from wings already in squad but could be risky. Who is next on the block if, say, Brown is concussed again?

A lot depends on where we are in the tournament, because we might not need a like-for-like replacement. In 2011, Waldrom joined the squad in place of Andrew Sheridan. He had been called over while Nick Easter was laid up with back pain, and finally included when Sheridan was confirmed out of the tournament. We were far enough along that prop cover wasn't as necessary.

It's unlikely that anyone would get a call-up to rectify a perceived squad weakness - unless Hartley counts on that score.

I have heard some claim that Cipriani should be the obvious cover for Ford but Myler might be better to cover an injury to Farrell. I can see the logic, but don't think Lancaster will go that way because Myler didn't have much time with the squad by comparison.

I'd be surprised to see Cipriani called up if Brown was injured, but not so much if Goode was the man down. Watson or Nowell might be thrown in at full back for Brown, with a new winger called up, but Foden and Pennell also did some training with the squad, so it's not impossible that one of them could be in line.

by kingelderfield Mon 14 Sep 2015, 7:50 am

Honestly I can't see cipriani being called up, regardless.

by No 7&1/2 Mon 14 Sep 2015, 8:01 am

Who would be the next fly half or you reckon he'd move Slade over and call extra midfield?

by robbo277 Mon 14 Sep 2015, 8:10 am

I think you have to look at who the last guys cut were. So Burrell pr even Twelvetreea at centre, Cipriani at 10, Dickson at 9, Clark or Easter in the back row, Attwood at lock and Corbisiero at prop. What is less clear is who would come in for hooker (with Hartley back in contention) or back three (as no cover was included).

If someone comes into the squad Lancaster is going to want them up to speed quickly, he's not going to want to be wasting time teaching the new guy the calls before a Quarter final, so Myler, Croft, Foden and others are possibly a bit too far removed from the central squad, save for truly exceptional standards.

Say Brown and Goode went down though, and we did have "exceptional circumstances", could we see Abendanon? Or Armitage if we lost two of three in the acknowledgement row? ABs called up Donald last time and I don't think he was based in NZ, although I can't recall.

The other issue is obviously non like-for-like swaps. If we lost Joseph early, called up Burrell but then Slade cemented himself at centre, you'd lose some 10 cover. So we might see someone like Cipriani called up for a lock, especially if one of our two 10s is carrying a knock.

So it's quite versatile, but I'd be surprised I'd we saw anyone from outside the 39 (?) that featured in the warmups, with the possible exception of Hartley.

by HongKongCherry Mon 14 Sep 2015, 8:16 am

You're all missing the obvious. A certain player has 3 brothers, surely any one of them could be called in... Whistle

by robbo277 Mon 14 Sep 2015, 8:20 am

7&1/2

I think if Ford or Farrell are completely ruled out of the tournament you have to call up Cipriani. He was next in line, it's his position and it would be ridiculous not to.

However, if Ford or Farrell pick up a knock then I can see Lancaster retaining his injured player and using Slade or possibly even Goode as bench cover. Especially if one picked up a knock in the early pool games, as Lancaster would want them back for the latter stages, assuming they get there.

Then, if one of the 10s is hit and miss and we have an injury elsewhere, I think Lancaster could take a chance on Cipriani to bolster his options at 10.

In terms of back three cover, I think there is an outside chance, but as we only have 5 guys I don't think he'd get a call up at the start of the tournament. If May goes down against Fiji, I'd imagine Yarde would get the call as he'd only be matchday cover for the two big games and probably get a runout against Uruguay. Even if Brown went down, I can imagine Goode would slot into fullback with Watson covering, so Lancaster may even go with another wing in that case.

Later on in the tournament though, if the back three settles and all 5 make it through the pool stage, and then one goes down before the quarterfinal, you still have 4 guys so you juggle your resources there, and possibly calling up someone like Cipriani would open options elsewhere.

by No 7&1/2 Mon 14 Sep 2015, 8:22 am

Yes, I'd completely agree just wondering who king thinks will be there.

by Poorfour Mon 14 Sep 2015, 8:55 am

Lancaster said something after the announcement of the 31 to the effect that he viewed the players he'd just dropped plus a handful of others who had trained with the squad (I think Croft, Foden and Hartley were mentioned by name) as part of an extended squad who have been told to be on standby and maintain their fitness and training.

He also sets a lot of store by how much time a player has spent training with the squad - not unreasonable given the need to learn patterns and develop understanding with the other players.

So any callup is likely to be from that lot, and my guess is that he would not go outside that unless England had the equivalent of the NZ flyhalf crisis. There might be some positional horse-trading, particularly with players who cover multiple positions, but I think it would be a big step to see him go for a player outside the squad.

For instance, I would be very surprised to see Daly or Eastmond get called up as centre cover. There's plenty of cover in the "extended" squad for both positions:
12 - Barritt, Burgess, Slade; Twelvetrees, Burrell
13 - JJ, Slade, Barritt; Burrell
...and Farrell could cover either, albeit at a cost of some attacking ability at 13.

by englandglory4ever Mon 14 Sep 2015, 10:50 am

HongKongCherry wrote:You're all missing the obvious. A certain player has 3 brothers, surely any one of them could be called in...

My God that Burgess bloke is a star. Even blokes who don't like him can't stop talking about him.

by HongKongCherry Mon 14 Sep 2015, 12:39 pm

englandglory4ever wrote:
HongKongCherry wrote:You're all missing the obvious. A certain player has 3 brothers, surely any one of them could be called in...

My God that Burgess bloke is a star. Even blokes who don't like him can't stop talking about him.

What you talkin 'bout Willis??

by **LondonTiger** Mon 14 Sep 2015, 4:07 pm

Less than an hour till the team is announced. Team expected to look very similar to the one that faced Ireland with the main decisions at second row, No8 and wing.

by yappysnap Mon 14 Sep 2015, 4:35 pm

HongKongCherry wrote:
englandglory4ever wrote:
HongKongCherry wrote:You're all missing the obvious. A certain player has 3 brothers, surely any one of them could be called in...

My God that Burgess bloke is a star. Even blokes who don't like him can't stop talking about him.

What you talkin 'bout Willis??

Weren't you talking about the Tuilagis???

by hugehandoff Mon 14 Sep 2015, 4:47 pm

England to face Fiji on Friday 18 September

15. Mike Brown (Harlequins, 39 caps)
14. Anthony Watson (Bath Rugby, 11 caps)
13. Jonathan Joseph (Bath Rugby, 13 caps)
12. Brad Barritt (Saracens, 23 caps)
11. Jonny May (Gloucester Rugby, 16 caps)
10. George Ford (Bath Rugby, 13 caps)
9. Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers, 49 caps)

1. Joe Marler (Harlequins, 33 caps)
2. Tom Youngs (Leicester Tigers, 24 caps)
3. Dan Cole (Leicester Tigers, 52 caps)
4. Geoff Parling (Exeter Chiefs, 25 caps)
5. Courtney Lawes (Northampton Saints, 40 caps)
6. Tom Wood (Northampton Saints, 38 caps)
7. Chris Robshaw (captain, Harlequins, 39 caps)
8. Ben Morgan (Gloucester Rugby, 29 caps)

Replacements

16. Rob Webber (Bath Rugby, 13 caps)
17. Mako Vunipola (Saracens, 23 caps)
18. Kieran Brookes (Northampton Saints, 12 caps)
19. Joe Launchbury (Wasps, 24 caps)
20. Billy Vunipola (Saracens, 19 caps)
21. Richard Wigglesworth (Saracens, 23 caps)
22. Owen Farrell (Saracens, 31 caps)
23. Sam Burgess (Bath Rugby, 2 caps)

Lay down a marker boys!

by hugehandoff Mon 14 Sep 2015, 4:52 pm

So Parling starts over Launchbury and Morgan over Billy. Burgess retains his bench spot whilst Webber is recalled over Jamie George. Otherwise as expected.

by **LondonTiger** Mon 14 Sep 2015, 4:54 pm

Based purely on performances in warm-ups, only surprise for me is Webber on the bench.

by yappysnap Mon 14 Sep 2015, 4:55 pm

Very strong team! We should get a solid bp win, fingers crossed no injuries.

by **LondonTiger** Mon 14 Sep 2015, 4:57 pm

Brookes ahead of Wilson on bench is an interesting call.

by hugehandoff Mon 14 Sep 2015, 4:58 pm

I fully expect Fiji to run England close until the 60th minute when England's superior fitness should allow them to pull away. Plus Fiji's achillees heel could be their scrum, which I am sure will be targetted. But with Fiji's talent I am sure they will delight neutrals with a couple of cracking scores.

by wrfc1980 Mon 14 Sep 2015, 4:59 pm

A few pundits who seem to be in the know are suggesting that this is very much a horses for courses selection. The thinking is that against Wales and the Aussies Slade may well come into the reckoning in place of Burgess for a bench spot and Vunipola will start at 8.

by wrfc1980 Mon 14 Sep 2015, 5:00 pm

Although Fiji have some excellent players I can't see them threatening England. I'm going for a 20+ point win. Wales on the other hand may struggle, they have had issues in the past with Fiji (and Samoa!) and I just feel that this history sometimes weighs heavy on them.

by ChequeredJersey Mon 14 Sep 2015, 5:03 pm

Why can't Lancaster pick a bench, ever? What does he think his backline bench picks for Fiji will do to add to the game, if we are winning or losing? You could pick a bench backs selection of Care, Slade/Goode and Nowell. There is neither point nor excuse for being so conservative with the bench (and IMO it's a mistake to pick Webber too) in a match in which we will, if we are winning, need to rack up as many points as possible

by beshocked Mon 14 Sep 2015, 5:04 pm

Disappointingly conservative from Lancaster.

Big punch in the face for Jamie George.

What does he need to do to get picked?

I think picking this side will bite Lancaster in the backside because I think they will pick up a high profile injury.

Poor Nowell too - can't believe I would say that.

As a bench option Burgess offers a lot less than Nowell and Slade.

by ChequeredJersey Mon 14 Sep 2015, 5:05 pm

beshocked wrote:Disappointingly conservative from Lancaster.

Big punch in the face for Jamie George.

What does he need to do to get picked?

I think picking this side will bite Lancaster in the backside because I think they will pick up a high profile injury.

Poor Nowell too - can't believe I would say that.

As a bench option Burgess offers a lot less than Nowell and Slade.

This

by majesticimperialman Mon 14 Sep 2015, 5:05 pm

I just hope that Tom Young's throw in at the line out does not go a stray now the RWC has started.

by beshocked Mon 14 Sep 2015, 5:10 pm

Thank you Chequeredjersey . A rare time another poster agrees with me.

Completely agree.

For backs bench I would have picked the same as you.

Care,Slade,Nowell.

Surely we want England to stomp on Fiji in the 60th minute onwards.

As much as I think Wigglesworth and Farrell are good at a certain style of rugby, attacking isn't their strong suit (well actually Wigglesworth is better than given credit for but he's no Care).

by BamBam Mon 14 Sep 2015, 5:12 pm

Not quite sure what George has done wrong, agree with the rest (including beshocked!!!) that the bench is severely mehhh

Starting line up as expected, I'm just worried that in future games we should be starting either Wood/Launchbury as a pair or Haskell/Parling.

Of course, if Wood continues to carry like Willem Alberts then this won't be an issue

by wrfc1980 Mon 14 Sep 2015, 5:12 pm

Guys like Vunipola, Burgess, Launchberry, Brookes and Webber can all make a big impact from the bench

by ChequeredJersey Mon 14 Sep 2015, 5:12 pm

wrfc1980 wrote:A few pundits who seem to be in the know are suggesting that this is very much a horses for courses selection. The thinking is that against Wales and the Aussies Slade may well come into the reckoning in place of Burgess for a bench spot and Vunipola will start at 8.

Then I suggest Lancaster needs to rethink what this course is going to be like. Negative bench

by wrfc1980 Mon 14 Sep 2015, 5:13 pm

I guess lancaster thinks the best way to pile the points on Fiji is through structure (always their weakness) rather than flair.

by little_badger Mon 14 Sep 2015, 5:14 pm

Ok so picked a strong team clearly not underestimating Fiji, fine with this. Harsh on Jamie George, aside from this forwards on the bench are all very strong.

However, what is the point of picking such a negative selection of backs? What's the point of bringing on a tactical kicking scrum half when the gaps are going to be opening up when players are tired.

I'd have Care, Slade and Nowell.

by ChequeredJersey Mon 14 Sep 2015, 5:15 pm

wrfc1980 wrote:I guess lancaster thinks the best way to pile the points on Fiji is through structure (always their weakness) rather than flair.

Yeah at the START but it has to be attacking structure. If we demolish them in the last 20 I'll eat my words but this inability to use subs intelligently has long been Lancaster's Achilles heel

by beshocked Mon 14 Sep 2015, 5:20 pm

wfc1980 surely if we wanted to go the structured approach then one of Wigglesworth or Farrell should be starting?

Surely Burgess is the kind of player who could make a massive balls up off the bench? Like getting Yced for a shoulder charge?

Agreed Chequeredjersey.

Let's say that one of the wingers get injured then what happens? Joseph on the wing? Is that something we really want to see?

The bench doesn't cover wing or FB.

Hell I would rather see Cipriani in this kind of match off the bench than Farrell (I know he didn't get picked obviously).

What's the point of Slade if he's not going to be used?

IMO rugby is about the squad, not just the first XV, not just the 23, it's all the players you have available at your disposal. England should have an advantage there but if Lancaster doesn't use that strength....

by little_badger Mon 14 Sep 2015, 5:22 pm

beshocked wrote:wfc1980 surely if we wanted to go the structured approach then one of Wigglesworth or Farrell should be starting?

Surely Burgess is the kind of player who could make a massive balls up off the bench? Like getting Yced for a shoulder charge?

Agreed Chequeredjersey.

Let's say that one of the wingers get injured then what happens? Joseph on the wing? Is that something we really want to see?

The bench doesn't cover wing or FB.

Hell I would rather see Cipriani in this kind of match off the bench than Farrell (I know he didn't get picked obviously).

What's the point of Slade if he's not going to be used?

The backs on the bench are just so negative and inflexible, what on earth do we do if, god forbid, we are losing?!

by spaynter Mon 14 Sep 2015, 5:23 pm

It's a cunning plan to get Webber injured so they can get Hartley back in.......

by spaynter Mon 14 Sep 2015, 5:30 pm

It's a cunning plan to get Webber injured so they can get Hartley back in.......

by englandglory4ever Mon 14 Sep 2015, 5:30 pm

What a steady eddie team selection and the bench is fantastic too. Basically this team trounced Ireland. (I know the score was close but they were completely out played for large parts of the game). Just what we need to make a win as certain as we can be. It would be horible for someone like Slade to be run over several times by the bruising Fijians. Best he is kept in the shed out of harms way. He'll get a run out against Uruguay.

by beshocked Mon 14 Sep 2015, 5:30 pm

little badger totally agree.

I think we all saw Farrell Jr's weakness when he butchered the overlap vs Ireland.

Utilise his strengths not his weaknesses!

To be honest I think Lancaster is showing a bit of stubbornness.

His 2nd choice with the ban of Hartley has always been Webber regardless of how well Jamie George has played both this season and in the warm ups. That's pretty clear.

Same with others like Burgess - Lancaster probably knew he would pick Burgess for this game when he announced the 50 squad! Same with Wigglesworth and Farrell.

To be honest I also think Lancaster's infatuation with Burgess isn't just his. It's probably Farrell Sr's too. Plenty of similarities if you think about it.

by ChequeredJersey Mon 14 Sep 2015, 5:35 pm

Englandforglory, Slade would not get run over by the Fijians, at least no more than any human being would get run over by Nadolo if we let him get attacking ball...

by nathan Mon 14 Sep 2015, 5:37 pm

So what will it take for some on here to eat their own hat and admit they were wrong?

by englandglory4ever Mon 14 Sep 2015, 5:38 pm

ChequeredJersey wrote:Englandforglory, Slade would not get run over by the Fijians, at least no more than any human being would get run over by Nadolo if we let him get attacking ball...

Oh yes the man mountain Nadolo! It will take 3 players to haul him down. (Or just big Sam).

by beshocked Mon 14 Sep 2015, 5:39 pm

Chequeredjersey I agree.

To be honest I am more worried about Ford being run over by Fijians than Slade.

Is no one else worried that T.Youngs and Geoff Parling could make our front five a bit underpowered?

Nathan

I will admit that May did well in the warm ups. Hopefully he will play well in the most important ones.

Happily to admit I am wrong if England demolish Fiji with no key injuries, with T.Youngs and Geoff Parling beasting the opposition with great lineout combo and powerful scrummagings as part of the front five.

Hopefully that happens.

by ChequeredJersey Mon 14 Sep 2015, 5:41 pm

nathan wrote:So what will it take for some on here to eat their own hat and admit they were wrong?

If the charges we inevitably make at55-60 minute no matter what coincide with either turning a loss into a win or stacking up points in the last 20, I will be on here and take it back

by englandglory4ever Mon 14 Sep 2015, 5:42 pm

"Is no one else worried that T.Youngs and Geoff Parling could make our front five a bit underpowered?"

We know our pack is no match for a big side in the tight. France showed us that. Oh for the days of Steve Thompson. Where have all our big hookers gone? SA and NZ could give us a right going over.

by nathan Mon 14 Sep 2015, 5:42 pm

beshocked wrote:Chequeredjersey I agree.

To be honest I am more worried about Ford being run over by Fijians than Slade.

Is no one else worried that T.Youngs and Geoff Parling could make our front five a bit underpowered?

When ever was the leicester front 5 ever underpowered with these two in the side?

by nathan Mon 14 Sep 2015, 5:43 pm

englandglory4ever wrote:"Is no one else worried that T.Youngs and Geoff Parling could make our front five a bit underpowered?"

We know our pack is no match for a big side in the tight. France showed us that. Oh for the days of Steve Thompson. Where have all our big hookers gone? SA and NZ could give us a right going over.

You need to put it into perspective, it was announced that the team had done no forwards training so i doubt we'll perform like that again

by nathan Mon 14 Sep 2015, 5:44 pm

ChequeredJersey wrote:
nathan wrote:So what will it take for some on here to eat their own hat and admit they were wrong?

If the charges we inevitably make at55-60 minute no matter what coincide with either turning a loss into a win or stacking up points in the last 20, I will be on here and take it back

Hope so becuase there were a few being pretty negative before the ireland game and yet were proved wrong with what they said - of course they didn't come back on here and hold there hands up and say they were wrong

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