Khan-Garcia rematch

Garcia's not keen on it and he has a good reason, if Khan won he wouldn't have gave Garcia a rematch for sure!

Anyways, for pure speculations sake, if they did, does Khan simply have to stay smart, not be proud, and avoid a war to win?

Or would it be the same result, with Garcia soaking up his shots, before eventually (much later in the fight this time round) landing a big 1 on that susceptible chin of Khans?

What do you think?

watched the fight again last night and Khan was schooling him for the first two rounds, my opinion is he thought it was gonna be an easy night, neglected his boxing which had been working wonders for him, went for the KO and we all know the rest.

If Khan can get in there, stick to the game plan as such and not get involved in a tear up i see a wide points decision, thats a big IF with Khan though.

watched the Behind the ropes episodes last night and i know other guys had mentioned Khans sparring in the lead up to the fight and i was surprised at how reckless it was, definitely a warning sign.

Also have to say that i didn't think too much of Garcia and his Dad but after watching the behind the ropes episode Garcia is actually a very nice guy and his Dad is nothing like the guy we seen at the press conferences.

This rubbish that Khan was schooling or battering Garcia is rubbish. Khan cae out and did exactly what Garcia knew he would do.

In the second round Garci caught Khan with a few good counter shot. Garcia was timing him.

its my opinion that he was schooling him, if you disagree with it fair enough, but to say its rubbish, ok then i think its rubbish that Garcia was timing him.

You only have to listen to his Dad in the corner after rounds 1 & 2, saying things like 'c'mon man we gotta do something here' (or words very similar to that), at no point did his dad allude to a plan coming into effect, Khan got involved and got caught.

Regardless of my thoughts on the Roach/Khan partnership. Garcia's father got under Khan skin so he wanted to knock his son out. Khan got reckless and got sparked.

According to Roach the plan was to counter Garcia, I would imagine the coaching for this plan went something like this, "Amir you should counter Garcia".

I doubt Garcia will give Khan a rematch, I'd like to see him bout Peterson. That would be a decent match-up. Marquez however would stick to Khan's intended plan and box Danny's ears off.

Reminded me very much of the brawl in montreal, it was clear after two rounds who the better boxer was but for whatever reason he stopped boxing as he was, let his guard down and paid the consequence. Khan could easily outbox Garcia but his complacency has cropped up too many times for me to say with any real confidence that a rematch would turn out much different, it's a shame because Garcia isn't all that good.

Agree with Imperial/Mackem on this one.

If he had stuck to the game plan which was set out to begin with for a reason then he would of just picked him off all night with a wide UD. But unfortunately for Khan he decided to throw caution to the wind in round 3, got tagged and then decided to engage in an all out war. Why, I don't know, surely he has the ring smarts and the wisdom in his corner to tie up/back off when tagged.

I found it quite funny in the post fight interviews how Khans performance became a 'collective' effort, like it was his whole corners idea to just bin the game plan off. 'We' this, 'We' that. I'm doubting Freddie told him to engage after getting rocked and told him to fight instead of box.

Would like to see Marquez v Garcia now, Peterson is a cheat and doesn't deserve the shot, Marquez would counter Garcia all night long, a worthy undisputed 140 champ who is a consumate professional.

TheMackemMawler wrote:Regardless of my thoughts on the Roach/Khan partnership. Garcia's father got under Khan skin so he wanted to knock his son out. Khan got reckless and got sparked.

According to Roach the plan was to counter Garcia, I would imagine the coaching for this plan went something like this, "Amir you should counter Garcia".

I doubt Garcia will give Khan a rematch, I'd like to see him bout Peterson. That would be a decent match-up. Marquez however would stick to Khan's intended plan and box Danny's ears off.

Looking back this is a good point, quite smart from Angel if this was the point all along. I also remember Khan saying I've never said this before but I promise I will knock Garcia out!

SharkSoul wrote:
Agree with Imperial/Mackem on this one.

If he had stuck to the game plan which was set out to begin with for a reason then he would of just picked him off all night with a wide UD. But unfortunately for Khan he decided to throw caution to the wind in round 3, got tagged and then decided to engage in an all out war. Why, I don't know, surely he has the ring smarts and the wisdom in his corner to tie up/back off when tagged.

I found it quite funny in the post fight interviews how Khans performance became a 'collective' effort, like it was his whole corners idea to just bin the game plan off. 'We' this, 'We' that. I'm doubting Freddie told him to engage after getting rocked and told him to fight instead of box.

Would like to see Marquez v Garcia now, Peterson is a cheat and doesn't deserve the shot, Marquez would counter Garcia all night long, a worthy undisputed 140 champ who is a consumate professional.

Garcia also had a game plan which worked.

To be fair, Garcia looked like he was getting closer and closer with his counter shots through the first couple. He was way off the first few times but he was definitely getting the feel. His defence is pretty poor though, not much in the way of head movement either. I think it's only a matter of time before someone exposes those particular failings.

TheMackemMawler wrote:Regardless of my thoughts on the Roach/Khan partnership. Garcia's father got under Khan skin so he wanted to knock his son out. Khan got reckless and got sparked.

According to Roach the plan was to counter Garcia, I would imagine the coaching for this plan went something like this, "Amir you should counter Garcia".

I doubt Garcia will give Khan a rematch, I'd like to see him bout Peterson. That would be a decent match-up. Marquez however would stick to Khan's intended plan and box Danny's ears off.

I think khan could beat Garcia quite comfortably if he fought smart. He's taller, has a bigger reach and is much faster. If he were to box as he did against kotelnik - upright with a high guard behind a fast jab and only unload when he has his man backed up - then he would win a comfy decision. I wouldn't view Garcia as an amazing pressure fighter which is what khan struggles with, the defeat came more because of khans recklessness ie trying to prove he's an "exciting warrior" and assuming because he survived the maidana fight he's suddenly got a chin of Oliver McCall proportions. For me khan is better but recently has not been fighting to his strengths and his career is suffering because of it (which is why I think it's time to ditch Roach and get back to basics instead of trying to be Manny MK II).

I don't think Garcia will even entertain the idea of a rematch - and rightly so in my opinion. He scored a convincing win over a challenger (people seam to be forgetting this).

He scored a convincing win over a fellow champion (people seem to be forgetting this)

I stand corrected, but when the fight was made Garcia was the champion. The point I was trying to make was I don't think Kahn deserves a rematch.

He holds a now effectively redundant title that no fighter should care about any more, for all his faults it was obvious when the fight was signed that Khan would be holding a title with more significance.

Ghosty, you nursing a hangover??

I'm simply stating when the fight was made it was for Garcia's WBC strap.

Do you believe Kahn warrants a rematch or are you picking holes in my posts to ease boredom on a Sunday evening?

Garcia was starting to counter effectively from the 2nd round and was finding his range more and more as the fight went on and i think he would have taken over by the mid point of the fight even without the big shot. I can see the same thing happening if there's a rematch only difference is i think it might last a bit longer which which may well lead to Khan taking a good bit more punishment. Frankly though he does not deserve a rematch he was beaten comprehensively and needs to rein in his arrogance and go and earn his shot like everyone else.

hogey wrote:Garcia was starting to counter effectively from the 2nd round and was finding his range more and more as the fight went on and i think he would have taken over by the mid point of the fight even without the big shot. I can see the same thing happening if there's a rematch only difference is i think it might last a bit longer which which may well lead to Khan taking a good bit more punishment. Frankly though he does not deserve a rematch he was beaten comprehensively and needs to rein in his arrogance and go and earn his shot like everyone else.

Here, here.

I agree with RANDY. When the fight was first made, Khan was talking about winning the WBC belt and named previous legends who have held a WBC belt. The WBA/IBF situations had not been mentioned because nobody knew what was happening.

The fact is, Khan assumed Garcia was going to be an easy win, a weak belt holder. 99% of this forum did as well, myself included.

Khan should move on, maybe go for Paulie Mal's belt at welter if he wants to get on the successful path again. That being said, Paulie is startin to knock people out again haha so even that's not a given

Like Ortiz, Khan provides entertainment and therefore TV will want him. He also brings in money to the table. He'll get a title shot within 3 fights.

azania wrote:Like Ortiz, Khan provides entertainment and therefore TV will want him. He also brings in money to the table. He'll get a title shot within 3 fights.

Agreed, and as long as his opposition warrants it, I think this is the way things should be. I actually quite like Kahn but don't believe he should be offered a rematch each time he loses just because he is promoted by GBP.

RANDY77 wrote:

azania wrote:Like Ortiz, Khan provides entertainment and therefore TV will want him. He also brings in money to the table. He'll get a title shot within 3 fights.

Agreed, and as long as his opposition warrants it, I think this is the way things should be. I actually quite like Kahn but don't believe he should be offered a rematch each time he loses just because he is promoted by GBP.

In an ideal world he shouldn't. But in boxing, money and TV rule. If Ricky Burns loses to an American, he will have to beat King Kong (just saw it) to get a shot. Nobody wants to se him fight. Khan on the other hand brings exciting fights and viewers. Plus he is edge of seat stuf in that he may get KTFO at any time. And if he wins, it will be a long fight.

azania wrote:

RANDY77 wrote:

azania wrote:Like Ortiz, Khan provides entertainment and therefore TV will want him. He also brings in money to the table. He'll get a title shot within 3 fights.

Agreed, and as long as his opposition warrants it, I think this is the way things should be. I actually quite like Kahn but don't believe he should be offered a rematch each time he loses just because he is promoted by GBP.

In an ideal world he shouldn't. But in boxing, money and TV rule. If Ricky Burns loses to an American, he will have to beat King Kong (just saw it) to get a shot. Nobody wants to se him fight. Khan on the other hand brings exciting fights and viewers. Plus he is edge of seat stuf in that he may get KTFO at any time. And if he wins, it will be a long fight.

Why not?

Kahn has proven he can mix it at world level. Three more wins against similar opposition and I'd think he would have earned his next title tilt. How many would you see as sufficient?

RANDY77 wrote:

azania wrote:

RANDY77 wrote:

azania wrote:Like Ortiz, Khan provides entertainment and therefore TV will want him. He also brings in money to the table. He'll get a title shot within 3 fights.

Agreed, and as long as his opposition warrants it, I think this is the way things should be. I actually quite like Kahn but don't believe he should be offered a rematch each time he loses just because he is promoted by GBP.

In an ideal world he shouldn't. But in boxing, money and TV rule. If Ricky Burns loses to an American, he will have to beat King Kong (just saw it) to get a shot. Nobody wants to se him fight. Khan on the other hand brings exciting fights and viewers. Plus he is edge of seat stuf in that he may get KTFO at any time. And if he wins, it will be a long fight.

Why not?

Kahn has proven he can mix it at world level. Three more wins against similar opposition and I'd think he would have earned his next title tilt. How many would you see as sufficient?

I mean he shouldn't walk straight into a world title fight. He has to earn it.

Well I fall into the category of people who thought it was going to be an easy night, and quite frankly from watching the fight it should have been. Khan had Garcia where he wanted him but Amir (as alluded to earlier in this thread) seems to think he can't be hurt at 140 after surviving Maidana and Garcia Snr got under his skin. For me Khan has strength issues. Yes he throws out blistering combo's but he very rarely looks like he is going to take someone's head off with a shot or able manhandle guys who are smaller than him. The whole Alex Ariza issue as well as his world tour training camps also needs to be addressed. I don't think he needs to leave Roach but as Manny only fights twice a year he can easily book fights so that they do not clash. Ideally I would like to see Khan set off on some sort of redemption campaign and take on Presscott, Peterson and last of all Garcia. All would be interesting fights that he might be favoured to win but could just as easily lose.

I dont think people are giving Garcia the credit he deserves. Its all about Khan's mistakes as opposed to Garcia capitalising on the apparent mistake. He was skilled enough to land the punch.

Agreed, people saying ''Garcia put it head down and landed a lucky punch'' no Garcia countered the left hook with his own left hook, keeping his chin low...

RANDY77 wrote:Agreed, people saying ''Garcia put it head down and landed a lucky punch'' no Garcia countered the left hook with his own left hook, keeping his chin low...

Its not as though he wasn't looking for that punch.

I think part of the reason Garcia is not getting as much kudos for winning the fight IMO is considering he won by a 4th round TKO and dropped his opponent 3 times, his face was quite badly marked up. Until he socred the 1st knockdown he was not in the fight.

mikeymax71 wrote:I think part of the reason Garcia is not getting as much kudos for winning the fight IMO is considering he won by a 4th round TKO and dropped his opponent 3 times, his face was quite badly marked up. Until he socred the 1st knockdown he was not in the fight.

If you knock the other fighter out in boxing, you win.

I agree 100% with what you are saying but still think Garcia deserves more credit for finding the money shot.

He's getting a lot of credit in USA. Its just in the UK where question marks are always asked when a brit boxer loses.

azania wrote:He's getting a lot of credit in USA. Its just in the UK where question marks are always asked when a brit boxer loses.

How is Garcia seen in the USA az? Is he still seen as a weak champion, or being hyped up as the next p4p superstar?

He's not hyped up or seen as a weak champion. He's seen as solid. well yahoo does anyway. Iole I believe rates his quite highly.

I find him difficult to gauge.

I see Maidana has just world level but in a head to head can see him getting Garcia out of there.

irishbrads wrote:its my opinion that he was schooling him, if you disagree with it fair enough, but to say its rubbish, ok then i think its rubbish that Garcia was timing him.

You only have to listen to his Dad in the corner after rounds 1 & 2, saying things like 'c'mon man we gotta do something here' (or words very similar to that), at no point did his dad allude to a plan coming into effect, Khan got involved and got caught.

Just watched the fight again.. its not a case of if a corner is worried as if you are loosing rounds then they are of course going to need to tell you what you need to do to be better as that's what they are their for...

I don't think his corner were too worried, just telling him he needed to to better... here

Rnd 1 "He is not as fast as you think, its just you keep jumping out, get it together.. "

In the second round you saw he was not getting hit as much and was starting to land a bit more him self.. and his left hook was starting to look dangerous.. but he did get a cut..

The after rnd two his corner was saying ..

"you got to be more crispy man, your being too wide man, he is picking you apart, you got to step around and let your hands go a little bit, left upper cut when he is leaning in man, watch him, watch him.. dont frustrate your self with the blood, stay calm man, lets work, you hear me?, lets work, stay focused.."

In the third rnd you see Khan start to throw less punches and Garcia managing to slip and block more and his counter punches starting to look powerful and menacing.. and sure enough one lands and then it was all Garcia.

So for me, we all know Khan starts fast and powerful as Im sure Garcia did as well, and I think his game plan was right and while he struggled in the first two rounds with Khans Speed in the third round you started to see that he was getting to grips more, and making Khan have to work a little harder to get to him.. and then boom!

So I would not rule out Khan winning a rematch if boxed and played a very careful game, nicking rounds.. But maybe need to see a bit more of Garcia as he looks very strong, hard hitting and no push over... and will only get better with more experience.

His Dad is a bit of a Holly Wilaboobie though.

Khan did very well in the first 2 round abut he always does that in every fight so that should have come to no surprise especially as Garcia is a slow starter

Khan wastes a lot of energy in the opening stages and can't maintain it, so Garcia getting to him was only a matter of time and will be the same 2nd time around

Garcia was hitting him with counters before the knockdown do it wasn't a complete turn around. He was timing khan better and working the body (something I'll think he'll do from the start in a 2nd fight) so he should be confident of beating khan again but perhaps a little longer.

tunes666 wrote:

irishbrads wrote:its my opinion that he was schooling him, if you disagree with it fair enough, but to say its rubbish, ok then i think its rubbish that Garcia was timing him.

You only have to listen to his Dad in the corner after rounds 1 & 2, saying things like 'c'mon man we gotta do something here' (or words very similar to that), at no point did his dad allude to a plan coming into effect, Khan got involved and got caught.

Just watched the fight again.. its not a case of if a corner is worried as if you are loosing rounds then they are of course going to need to tell you what you need to do to be better as that's what they are their for...

I don't think his corner were too worried, just telling him he needed to to better... here

Rnd 1 "He is not as fast as you think, its just you keep jumping out, get it together.. "

In the second round you saw he was not getting hit as much and was starting to land a bit more him self.. and his left hook was starting to look dangerous.. but he did get a cut..

The after rnd two his corner was saying ..

"you got to be more crispy man, your being too wide man, he is picking you apart, you got to step around and let your hands go a little bit, left upper cut when he is leaning in man, watch him, watch him.. dont frustrate your self with the blood, stay calm man, lets work, you hear me?, lets work, stay focused.."

In the third rnd you see Khan start to throw less punches and Garcia managing to slip and block more and his counter punches starting to look powerful and menacing.. and sure enough one lands and then it was all Garcia.

So for me, we all know Khan starts fast and powerful as Im sure Garcia did as well, and I think his game plan was right and while he struggled in the first two rounds with Khans Speed in the third round you started to see that he was getting to grips more, and making Khan have to work a little harder to get to him.. and then boom!

So I would not rule out Khan winning a rematch if boxed and played a very careful game, nicking rounds.. But maybe need to see a bit more of Garcia as he looks very strong, hard hitting and no push over... and will only get better with more experience.

His Dad is a bit of a Holly Wilaboobie though.

"He is picking you apart", even his own dad said it

You see the compubox stats for Rounds 1 & 2? Khan landed 26 of 57 punches thrown, Garcia landed 6 of 48, in anyones book thats getting beaten up. Round 2 Khan landed 30 of 66 punches thrown and Garcia landed 12 of 49, slightly more success but again he's getting beaten up.

Earlier in this thread i was told it was 'rubbish' that Khan was schooling Garcia, the stats speak for themselves i think and his Dads tone between rounds did not allude to a 'plan coming together' and as mentioned above even his Dad is telling him he's getting picked apart.

I watched the fight again last night (4th time) and i can't see it anyother way that Khan got involved when he shouldn't have, watch the 1st knockdown again, Garcia was looking away, eyes closed whatever and just threw the big left. Admittedly the finish was good but i feel it all stemmed from not a lucky punch as such but a big hopeful punch.

Quite a lot of post fight interviews on youtube, Paulie Malignaggi, Zab Judah, Manny steward and all give Khan his props for showing as much heart as he did, as much as he gets slated for being chinny i think no one can question his heart.

Also always thought of Zab Judah as be a massive A hole but after watching quite a few interviews last night he came across being a top bloke.

I don't see why Garcia would want to give Khan a re-match. He should be setting his sights higher. As for Khan, he should concentrate on getting a couple of wins under his belt against top ten opponents and then pushing to another world title shot. I have confidence that he will come back, but jumping up and down demanding a re-match when he was soundly beaten is not the way to do it.

Lots of people saying that Khan boxed Garcia's lugs off in the first two rounds. He did, but that was a necessary evil for Garcia to find his timing. It often takes a couple of rounds to establish your opponents timing/rythm.

Prior to the fight Garcia admits," if it a speed competition I lose", but he also says, "timing beats speed everytime". Watch the fight again, at 2:30min and again at 2:00min remaining of round 1 we see some of the first examples of Garcia timing Khans leaps and flurry's. Ok, Garcia comes off worst at times but its the first examples of a well thought out plan. Whats more, he also alluded to this plan when he said "timing beats speed everytime". I think he needs a bit more credit.

On a side note...

with 40seconds left remaining of the first, Khans knocks Garcia onto his heels, I have no doubt that, for a split second, Garcia was flashed. Garcia lands a low blow at the same time. Khan doesn't seem hurt but takes a breather and misses the chance to capatalise on that left hook. It was a cracker to the top of the head.

Garcia also said he'd stop Amir in the third round, he was a round late, but maybe he was aware it would take a couple of rounds to time him?

Khan "took" Maidana's shots well because he could see them coming from a mile off. It's amazing how Garcia could generate so much power, in what was essentially a counter, and still land it. You don't see counters coming, and its the shots you dont see that........

I think Ariza going could have had some effect on Khans ability to take shots. Remember, although Khan saw the shot Maidana threw, he also moved into it, making it more powerful that it was.

My coach always tells me that your arms won't save you in the ring, but your legs will. I think there is some truth in that.

I dont think Khan saw either shot. Maidana's shot landed on his jaw and he asborbed it better. Garcia's punch landed on the back of the jaw/neck and scrambled his equilibrium. It had the same effect as a temple shot.

Like someone said above, Garcia should move on to bigger fish and Khan needs to work his way back.

The result was no turnaround, Garcia was landing the right hand at will. No fluke, in fact it appeared only a matter of time.

Suspect chin, no discernible power, no survival instinct, do they really want him to move to welterweight!!! He would'nt have the frame either. But Richard's Schaeffer's greedy little nose smells a money fight. Malinaggi and Alexander gets him a fight with Mayweather you see. How does that work! Choose the two weakest links with a name. Avoid any puncher. And bingo you've got a superfight!

Great courage though, fast hands, flashy combos, his best bet would be a move to lightweight which of course ain't going to happen. He's not, nor ever will be, quite good enough for the top three or four light welterweights in the world imo. That's Latin country. One shudders to think what the Argentinian Matthysse would do to him. All said and done though, you can't fault Khan's desire to get back in there.