I think people are getting confused..............

with the fact that Punk plays a very good heel (no one is saying he doesn't) and the fact that the turn wasn't needed in this particular part of the story. Its just lazy booking.

The reason I bring this up is because it seems the only answer people have to saying the heel turn was a good thing is because he plays a good heel. That has nothing to do with why he was needlessly turned.

I know what you mean. He was doing fine but I think the 'e' want a top face (Cena) and a top heel (Punk). They don't like having the two main guys in the company feuding as both face's unfortunately.

I'm looking forward to seeing Punk now. I'm sure he'll rip into the Rock and then hopefully move on to ripping into Cena being the poster boy and stuff, much more interesting than fighting over AJ haha

martyr wrote:I know what you mean. He was doing fine but I think the 'e' want a top face (Cena) and a top heel (Punk). They don't like having the two main guys in the company feuding as both face's unfortunately.

I'm looking forward to seeing Punk now. I'm sure he'll rip into the Rock and then hopefully move on to ripping into Cena being the poster boy and stuff, much more interesting than fighting over AJ haha

I wouldn't buy into that, if he was gonna go on about Cena being the main guy because that exactly what Punk has been doing for the past year.

Oh yeh I know I forgot to put that in, obviously not exactly the same as last year, maybe reference to Dwayne getting a title shot despite not turning up most of the time etc..

I think it makes sense tbh. While Punk considers himself the best in the world, and is the WWE Champ, Cena and Rock among others are considered bigger.

Beating the Rock 1 on 1 for the title would elevate Punk.

Its a shame Johnson won't be able to reply next week.

I think it'll be hard to make Punk the heel despite attacks on the modern hero in Cena and the attitude hero in Rock, the Smark fan will now flock back to a more edgier Punk because it's the cool thing to do again, he's the bad guy that the guys who think they know behind the curtain can cheer again.

I think you build him up as the guy who holds onto the title at all costs so he can face Rock

And I think people are overreacting a bit here. Yes Punk was good as a face, however if its better for the product (building up Punk vs Rock at RR) then you turn him. The collective over the individual

That's the point, I dont think it was good for business. Establish him as a face headliner with the title and then turn him.

...wasn't he a face headliner with the title?

No he wasn't he was always behind Cena and his matches.

Yeah, but Cena's their current icon.

Punk was a solid #2 though.

bretmeharty wrote:No he wasn't he was always behind Cena and his matches.

but this could be the motive behind the heel turn. Constantly playing second fiddle when he is the champion and he is the best in the world

That is prob the route they will go down, but imo it would be a cop out. As zoot said on another thread totally unoriginal uninspiring booking for the supposed "story line of the summer"

gazzyD wrote:

bretmeharty wrote:No he wasn't he was always behind Cena and his matches.

but this could be the motive behind the heel turn. Constantly playing second fiddle when he is the champion and he is the best in the world

Thats what I think. Not sure there was a good feud out there as a face champ either.

I enjoyed it, granted I've not been watching since Feb but if Punk is the guy who always misses out on Main event spots despite being the World Champion then it fits perfectly into the pipebomb promo of last June, he was sick of being held back then and despite doing everything the right way he's sick of being held back now, his manerisms when Rock was promoing with Bryan where brilliant too, he looked utterly fed up, his actions fit in perfectly with his character and the storyline

Should it make him a heel? Maybe not but from a character prespective he was well within his rights to take matters into his own hands and look after number 1, I just hope he isn't booked like every other WWE heel and become a coward

Rock was about to steal the show last night, he was going to be the one standing tall while Punk would leave the ring. He took matters into his own hands and ensured he would be the lasting image of the Raw 1000th show, giving a GTS to the great one and laying a marker down that he is THE MAN.

Absolutely, as the show went off air you saw Punk walking up the ramp with the title over his shoulder and behind him you could see both Rock and Cena laying flat out, that's perfect

Graeme Swann's Cat wrote:Yeah, but Cena's their current icon.

Punk was a solid #2 though.

Think you'll find Cena is a very solid #2 ....

Punk had become stale, he became the shining example of everything he set out against from the pipebomb promo.

There is so much more out there for Punk as a heel than a face, he has so much more material to work with now. He's moved on from the Bryan feud, where although the matches were of a high quality, the storyline wasn't brilliant(or at least the pay off from it wasn't). What heels are out there for him to face who are on his level if he stayed as a face?

He can go down the route of his original pipebomb, about how even though he has been one of the longest reigning world champion he's still over-looked for Cena. The pipebomb also referenced Rock, again it makes sense for him to return to that particularly with the advent of a potential rumble match with Rock, where the promos could be fantastic. It all makes sense as a heel, where as the face he had become, it wouldn't work.

Furthermore, what better way to establish Punk as the top heel in the company and probably the top guy(in storyline terms rather than merchandising etc) than walking out of the 1000th Raw standing tall with the WWE championship having just laid out one of the biggest stars the WWE has ever made.

Let's remember that CM Punk was never meant to turn face anyway, he was always meant to be the heel, the angle where he did the worked shoot was designed to get him heat, but due to the WWE product being so dull over the years many found themselves agreeing with what he said and felt he was speaking for them, also, the fact that his 'last' match was in Chicago and he was told to play up to that as part of him breaking character and going out on his own terms, it all just served to make him an uber face

The whole thinking though was for Punk to shoot on the WWE and everything dear to the WWE (McMahon's, HHH, Cena and the Title) he even shot on the fans who cheered him during that Pipebomb but after the reaction in Chicago and how he embraced his home crowd they had no choice to just run with the crowd who decided he was now face, all it did was put Punk's original views on the shelf, he couldn't push on with what he was getting at pre Money in the Bank 2011, now though he can, it's all about him being sick of being overlooked, the direction of the company and his position in it despite having the belt that says he's supposed to be the top man

Got to be difficult with todays crowds, who cheer heels and boo faces at the drop of a hat.

the-gaffer wrote:Let's remember that CM Punk was never meant to turn face anyway, he was always meant to be the heel, the angle where he did the worked shoot was designed to get him heat, but due to the WWE product being so dull over the years many found themselves agreeing with what he said and felt he was speaking for them, also, the fact that his 'last' match was in Chicago and he was told to play up to that as part of him breaking character and going out on his own terms, it all just served to make him an uber face

The whole thinking though was for Punk to shoot on the WWE and everything dear to the WWE (McMahon's, HHH, Cena and the Title) he even shot on the fans who cheered him during that Pipebomb but after the reaction in Chicago and how he embraced his home crowd they had no choice to just run with the crowd who decided he was now face, all it did was put Punk's original views on the shelf, he couldn't push on with what he was getting at pre Money in the Bank 2011, now though he can, it's all about him being sick of being overlooked, the direction of the company and his position in it despite having the belt that says he's supposed to be the top man

It's almost as if Instead of just dropping an angle they have slowly built it up to a stage where it makes sense to go with it while also showing that there was a reason that Cena kept main eventing despite not being champion. And with Cena being the first person to fail to cash in the briefcase and punk being the man walking out with the title at the end scenes of the 1000th episode of raw putting the championship back in the picture.

So everything everyone has been complaining about being answered and done and people are still not happy.

I assure you it would been done more by fluke then design. And thats even if they go with Punk saying all the above, which he would have to do next week first before you are proved right.

I'm have no interest in being right/wrong. You may be right.

I'm just trying to say that despite it appearing to be that wwe could be doing everything the Internet fans want and there appears to be so thought behind it. it is immediately dismissed out off hand as fluke/ they will mess it up less than 24 hours after the show.

Surely each angle deserves time to be judged, but people have so many pre conceived ideas of what will happen, and how wwe are going to mess up everything that every storyline gets a fail mark before its started.

As I said you may be right, they may go another way, it may not be very good I just think everything deserves to be allowed to develop before deciding it has been ruined.

Nay Bother wrote:

the-gaffer wrote:Let's remember that CM Punk was never meant to turn face anyway, he was always meant to be the heel, the angle where he did the worked shoot was designed to get him heat, but due to the WWE product being so dull over the years many found themselves agreeing with what he said and felt he was speaking for them, also, the fact that his 'last' match was in Chicago and he was told to play up to that as part of him breaking character and going out on his own terms, it all just served to make him an uber face

The whole thinking though was for Punk to shoot on the WWE and everything dear to the WWE (McMahon's, HHH, Cena and the Title) he even shot on the fans who cheered him during that Pipebomb but after the reaction in Chicago and how he embraced his home crowd they had no choice to just run with the crowd who decided he was now face, all it did was put Punk's original views on the shelf, he couldn't push on with what he was getting at pre Money in the Bank 2011, now though he can, it's all about him being sick of being overlooked, the direction of the company and his position in it despite having the belt that says he's supposed to be the top man

It's almost as if Instead of just dropping an angle they have slowly built it up to a stage where it makes sense to go with it while also showing that there was a reason that Cena kept main eventing despite not being champion. And with Cena being the first person to fail to cash in the briefcase and punk being the man walking out with the title at the end scenes of the 1000th episode of raw putting the championship back in the picture.

So everything everyone has been complaining about being answered and done and people are still not happy.

No need to add to that, spot on mate

Gaffer, for someone who hasn't watched it for a while because of either not liking the storylines or how they were developing, you have become a bit naive all of a sudden regarding this one.

Not at all, I can see it for what it is, it looks like you're majorly over-reacting to something that made perfect sense

Then again maybe I am being Naïve but all I know is that I enjoyed the turn simply because it makes sense and ties in with absolutely everything that he was p1ssed off about 12 months ago