Your International Team next Season

First topic message reminder :

Hey all,

Did this in the club section yesterday and it took off well and got a lot of debate going, it's still happening at https://www.606v2.com/t33132p100-your-team-this-coming-season for those who haven't seen it. It translates to International rugby pretty easily.

Put in your team and then your ratings. Try and keep it realistic. 5 is average 10 is the best you could ever be etc.

Then discuss your choices and ratings and those of others. Keep it above the belt. Enjoy

TEAM:

Scrum: /10
Lineout: /10
Kicking game: /10
Breakdown: /10
Defence: /10
Attack: /10
Consistency: /10
Squad Depth: /10
Coaching: /10

Expectations this season:

Players to watch:

Other:



Ok so type it in and see if people think your team should be better or worse at certain things and you can do the same to other teams. Obviously be respectful.

10 - Absolute perfection
09 - Excellent
08 - Very Good
07- Good
06 - Above Average
05 - Average
04 - Below Average
03 - Bad
02 - Very Bad
01 - Apalling

I just dont rate Crane as a option for England going forward. He's just a poor mans Easter, we don't need any more average players and he's hardly going to get better.

Surely he should be applauded for getting away with the dark arts of the scrummage? I'm sure neither Cole nore Ayerza are whiter then white.

If Ayerza couldn't deal with Johnston's technique then really it's his own fault, he has plenty of experience to fall back on.

Sgt_Pooly wrote:I just dont rate Crane as a option for England going forward. He's just a poor mans Easter, we don't need any more average players and he's hardly going to get better.

I think that's a little bit harsh on Crane after he's been out for over a season. And odd seeing as Easter was probably the stand out English 8 of last season, Crane could potentially be a younger, fitter version of him who hopefully isn't a disrupting influence.

I think Crane could be a very good option to compliment Morgan, they're both strong in each others weak areas.

Personally I'd say that was a lazy comparison just because he plays in a more old school 8 style he is not really the same kind of 8 as Easter. Easter also had several really good seasons with England and if he was 5 years younger would not have been dropped and left behind Morgan, Waldrom and Dowson.

Unless England seriously beef up the pack with a couple of massive second rows who can also rule the lineout with Croft then personally I'm starting to think that Waldrom and Morgan are luxuaries England cannot afford at the moment.

If Ayerza couldn't deal with Johnston's technique then really it's his own fault, he has plenty of experience to fall back on.

I don't think there's a lot you can do if the other prop drags your arm inwards and leaves you unable to shove, hence the reason it's illegal. Surely the nature of darks arts is that you are applauded by your team/fans and villified by the opposition team/fans.

I rate Crane very highly and hope he returns in top form. For if he does and Morgan's fitness remains a problem then Crane would start for me.

This would give you the bulk to compliment Croft etc at 6.

This season will be huge for Englands potential 8's aswell...

Crane, Waldrum, Morgan, Fearns, Grey, Haskell?....even York for us.

Too early to call for Crane as far as England is concerned. How he returns from injury will be critical.

I was really disappointed with Morgan in the summer. He looked cumbersome and lethargic. Waldrom was a huge improvement when he came on and for me has to be inked in for the AIs. It's now up to Morgan to earn that shirt back.

As always, the balance of the back row with England is proving a challenge. Plenty options, but getting it right has so far in my view proved illusive.

I wonder whether there isn't a case for trying something slightly different, like Wood, Robshaw and Haskell, a trio of hard working all rounders who could pretty much play each position in the back row. Big on workrate and breakdown skills. Just a thought.

I can't believe you stole York from us!!

Aw i know mate...but dont worry we'll look after him. We have a world class coaching team now...a season for them all to get used to each other...and Premier league play offs next season.

York will improve beyond recognition and next season could be an England outsider...

Actually we have about 5-8 players who could be very well be on the England/Ireland and Scotlands radars come next season as long as we are promoted...

I just mentioned Easter because he's a similar style player. He's a much better player to be honest, I just have never seen anything in Crane.

He'll also have the benefit of Ali Hogg's input into his game as well.

Perhaps Hogg can teach him how to avoid starting off as an exciting international prospect and then start dwindling away just when your country needs you the most!!

FES, I think all of the Falcons fans will be hoping he chooses to learn from Richards, who in his day was an absolute beast of a number 8.

He's a much better player to be honest, I just have never seen anything in Crane.

Doesn't suprise me Sgt, he does seem underrated outside of WR, particularly in the media. That isn't helped by Barnes' love affair for Waldrom and other 8s who run around more but get less work done. Crane fit and in form makes a huge difference to the Tigers pack and until England can generate more grunt in their pack he will make a huge difference for them to.

TEAM: Australia

Scrum: 7/10 - More competitive of late but still prone to the same technique deficiencies against the top scrummagers.
Lineout: 7/10 - Lineout has improved over the years but we need to minimise those ones against the throw at crucial times in a match.
Kicking game: 6/10 - Goal kicking lets us down. Kicks in general play are fairly good but we need more power & accuracy on more occasions.
Breakdown: 7.5/10 - Not too bad with Pocock & 'Higgs' leading the way there, however still room for improvement in this department.
Defence: 8.5/10 - The biggest test for this will be against the RC nations. Do well there and we can take it a step further in the AIs.
Attack: 9/10 - On our day only NZ are better... and SA on their day!
Consistency: 7/10 - Apart from a couple of anomalies (Sam/Ire/Scot) we are relatively consistent but still should improve here.
Squad Depth: 6.5/10 - Some more young rookies with Super XV experience in the mix. They just need more game time at international level.
Coaching: 7/10 - RD has reigned over some shock defeats & below par performances. Generally OK though against NZ and SA. I would like to see Ewen McKenzie there before 2015 - if we don't produce better results this SH winter/ NH autumn.

Expectations this season: Top 2 in RC; win 75-100% AIs

Players to watch: Players coming back from injuries like JO'C and Horwill. More Test match exposure for squad players like Michael Harris and Cadeyrn Neville.

Other: The Wallabies simply need more stability in their line-up. That makes us more vulnerable (lucky v Wales) but signs are looking good if we can just get our best 22 on the park... especially for the next couple of months and on towards November-December in Europe.

funnyExiledScot wrote:He'll also have the benefit of Ali Hogg's input into his game as well.

Perhaps Hogg can teach him how to avoid starting off as an exciting international prospect and then start dwindling away just when your country needs you the most!!

FES, Hogg will struggle for gametime this season. He certainly wont be first choice. BUt as you say he was a very good player at his best so can still provide valuable advice to the youngsters.

GF, out of interest, what would your starting backrow next season be? Hogg a bench player I assume, coming on for impact?

I used to enjoy watching him play so much, he was a real warrior. Such a shame about his dip in form. I think with players like Denton emerging and Beattie hopefully regaining some form, his chances of a Scotland recall are diminishing rapidly...

Vedder i can see the back row being:

6 Tui'Fua (A man mountain powerhouse of sheer aggression)
7 Welch (who is Captain this season..at 22)
8 Chris York (Newly signed from Quins. Bit of a coup actually)

Add in Hogg, the young future stars from the Academy the real quality Wilson and the monstrous Robinson, and then the experienced Balding and we have very strong back row options....

I'd be gutted if York had left us and then didn't get to start for Falcons. He has a lot of potential, probably more than Guest or Easter if he is brought on properly.

formerly known as Sam wrote:FES, I think all of the Falcons fans will be hoping he chooses to learn from Richards, who in his day was an absolute beast of a number 8.

He's a much better player to be honest, I just have never seen anything in Crane.

Doesn't suprise me Sgt, he does seem underrated outside of WR, particularly in the media. That isn't helped by Barnes' love affair for Waldrom and other 8s who run around more but get less work done. Crane fit and in form makes a huge difference to the Tigers pack and until England can generate more grunt in their pack he will make a huge difference for them to.

The problem, or rather one of the problems, with Barnes is that he doesn't like to admit when he's wrong about a player. He wrote a piece in the Sunday Times a couple of years back saying that Crane wouldn't make it as an international 8 these days (in the world of dynamic and pacy 8's), but should concentrate on moving to lock. He cited Corry as an example of a player who ought to have done the same at the outset, rather than play back row, where his lack of pace singled him out at the highest level.

This was of course rubbish on several levels. Firstly Crane is not and never will be big enough to be an international lock. Secondly there was nothing wrong with Corry at 8 or 6. Yes, towards the end of career he was cumbersome, but recall Corry at 6 for the Lions and at 8 over the years for Leicester.

Crane is a specialist 8. That is his position. He is not Pierre Spies, Harinordiquy nor Parisse. He is not an eye catching player is that manner. What is he is a very consistent and effective player. If England want an 8 to work his socks off and get the basics right to a high standard, then Crane is a good shout.

GeordieFalcon wrote:

funnyExiledScot wrote:He'll also have the benefit of Ali Hogg's input into his game as well.

Perhaps Hogg can teach him how to avoid starting off as an exciting international prospect and then start dwindling away just when your country needs you the most!!

FES, Hogg will struggle for gametime this season. He certainly wont be first choice. BUt as you say he was a very good player at his best so can still provide valuable advice to the youngsters.

I wouldn't expect Hogg to the first choice next season, but he's a useful player to have around, particularly in the winter months. His career is quite remarkable really. When he broke through for Scotland, deployed at 7, he was an outstanding prospect. Big for his position but physical and fast, and had great hands. For all the money in the world it looked like we had a worthy successor to Simon Taylor on our hands and a potential Lion at 8. Then he bulked up too much under Hadden, got the muscle/speed ratio wrong and lost his dynamism. It was recognised at the SRU and they tried to slim him down by sticking him on the 7's circuit, but the damage had been done. I think he'll be useful for Newcastle in the Championship, but when you come back up, his days will be numbered.

I'm really excited by York, he looked fantastic for Quins early on and should thrive with the game time.

Hogg has been a great signing for us and will bring some leadership to take the pressure off young Welch. Cracking options for the Championship.

yappysnap wrote:I'd be gutted if York had left us and then didn't get to start for Falcons. He has a lot of potential, probably more than Guest or Easter if he is brought on properly.

Oh he'll start alright Yappy.

Imagine what he will learn off Richards? Yes its not the Premiership...but he'll play regular, under top class coaching and will also blend in with what i think can be a serious back row.

If we get back up straight away he will be very much on the England Selcetors radar...be it for Saxons or seniors...

Yeah FES I agree re his size for a second row. He's got the bulk and the power for it but is lacking the crucial few inchs in height that would allow him to be more than just a good back of the lineout jumper (he does that well for Tigers). I presume Barnes' comments came after Crane made a rare appearence in the second row for the Saxons as injuries had taken their toll. He played rather well hence the media waffle. It's all horses for courses stuff but if we are going to play Robshaw and Croft who aren't really grunt players then Crane could be a good option, if say Haskell or Wood are on the flanks then maybe Morgan will be better.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jordan_Crane_(rugby_union)

Corry was a handy stand in at lock but I agree with you in that he was always best in the backrow, in his best days anyway. As Corry got older he became more suited to lock (in his last couple of seasons) because of his lack of pace. In his prime he was a quality 8 that lacked the explosive characteristics of Dallaligio and so ended up as the reserve option. That was unlucky as at the time we had an embassment of riches.

TEAM: Ireland

Scrum: 7/10
Lineout: 8/10
Kicking game: 5/10
Breakdown: 8/10
Defence: 5/10
Attack: 5/10
Consistency: 9/10
Squad Depth: 6/10
Coaching: 3/10

Expectations this season: Few changes and Kidney to get sacked.

Players to watch: Ian Madigan

Other: The team is stale and needs a change. Kidneys contract runs out after the 6 nations. Expect a new coach next summer and plenty of changes after that. The changes depend on who plays well for the provinces. Theres dozens of contenders to make the team in the next year or two.

Sam, you think Wood is more of a grunt player than Robshaw?

"TEAM: Ireland

Scrum: 7/10
Lineout: 8/10
Kicking game: 5/10
Breakdown: 8/10
Defence: 5/10
Attack: 5/10
Consistency: 9/10"




ehhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

To be fair Ireland have consistantly under performed for a while now so 9/10 is a pretty fair

oh come on you have put on the odd good performnce as well some pretty sub par stuff- v wales was ok, v france was ok, v nz 2nd was good. v england not great, v nz 3rd game shocker

9/10 because they keep picking the same team and playing the same way. If the rating is for being consistently good then I'd give them a 2/10 rating.