England vs South Africa: 2nd Test Match Thread

[Guest]

First topic message reminder :

Here is the match thread for the 2nd test at headlingley

Likely teams

England: Strauss,Cook,Trott,KP,Bell,Taylor,Prior,Bresnan,Swann,Broad,Anderson

S.Africa: Smith,Peterson,Amla,Kallis,AB,Rudolph,Duminy,Philander,Steyn,Morkel,Tahir

Although massive rumours going around that, england will play 4 quicks and leave out swann!

DISCUSS MATCH HERE

[mystiroakey]

We need the top 5 to do the biz...if that's gonna happen

[Duty281]

Captain Strauss, your country is looking for you to lead from the front. Nothing less than a century will do. England need to aim for a minimum of 469.

[Fists of Fury]

Game over. Far too big a total, and poor fielding along with lacklustre bowling from the likes of Broad (up until the 2nd new ball yesterday), Finn (dead ball disaster, too many four balls, a problem he had when he was dropped out in Australia and doesn't look to have fixed) and Bresnan (largely unthreatening) has cost us.

If we aren't at least 3 down by the close of play today I will eat my hat.

[Biltong]

There is roughly 310 overs left in the game.

If England wants to win this they need to score at least 150-200 more than SA.

With the ball still moving in these conditions can england get to 570-620?


SA will be confident and will be hoping to take 3 wickets in this session, even if it is only for Fists to eat his hat.

[mystiroakey]

SA are well ahead at the moment-

This is not a drawing pitch so - something special is needed from england to even get a draw

[Pal Joey]

Good call on the 420 run total BB. You're on fire, champ.

[Fists of Fury]

If we negotiate the session wicketless I will eat a moth live on Skype.

[Hibbz]

SA are well ahead at the moment-

This is not a drawing pitch so - something special is needed from england to even get a draw

I'd say a draw was by far the most likely result Mysti. So long as England avoid the follow on then it won't be in SA's interests to take any chances as they're already 1-0 up in a three match series. Add into that the fact there is rain forecast and I'm pretty sure the bookies would be predicting a draw.

A quick check of the odds confirms that the draw is now odds on.

[mystiroakey]

Is it, fingers crossed then!!

just checked betfair- draw 2/1- sa evens and england 8/1

I really dont understand why we put them in first though!

[mystiroakey]

excuse the above its draw evens(actually slightly less) and sa 2/1

[Hibbz]

excuse the above its draw evens(actually slightly less) and sa 2/1

Slightly less than evens? It's nothing like evens Mysti.

[mystiroakey]

1.8

[mystiroakey]

thats erm 5/4

[mystiroakey]

odds going down again though and sa going up. 1.73 and sa 3.2

[mystiroakey]

I might even take some of that SA win - I hate betting against england but- them odds look good

[Hibbz]

1.80 is 4/5 not 5/4. Alternatively 5/4 on.

[mystiroakey]

correct- still close to evens though! and at the time of writing it was about 1.89.

I know you were probally getting your odds on PP. i dont touch em though- Trust betfair on all bar horseracing!

[Hibbz]

In betting terms it is not close to evens. Next time you see 4/5 on betfair you go offering some evens and I'll see you under Waterloo Bridge.

Besides which your initial bold statement was "It is not a drawing pitch".

It's not a crime to admit you're wrong old bean.

And the 1.89 bit is a bare faced lie. I checked.

[Liam]

Massive session for England. Realistically to win they need I be maximum 1 down at stumps, big ask with cloud cover and this bowling attack but it's what's required.

[mystiroakey]

Well they were saying on talk sport that this test ground hasnt gone to a final day in ages!!

I cant be bothered to check, but i trust them.

1.89 to me is close to evens- so i said evens rather than 1.89 because not eveyone knows decimal betting- It may not have been 1.89 but i glanced. Its that simple really pal.

[mystiroakey]

Just checked hibbz- there hasnt been a draw there since 1996!!! so they were right.

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/england/engine/records/team/match_results.html?class=1;id=179;type=ground

[Hibbz]

Er I think you'll find you said it wasn't a drawing pitch not that talksport said it wasn't a ground that hadn't had a draw. Even you can't claim that those two are close.

Why don't you just admit that what you said was a little foolish/inaccurate it's not that big a deal?

[mystiroakey]

If a pitch hasnt had a draw on it for 16 years then i am happy to say its not a drawing pitch.. Your the one making a big deal out of it- Not me . Call it inaccurate or foolish all you want. But it isnt to me.

[Hibbz]

Mysti, I think you're struggling with the difference between a pitch and a ground. They've never played a match on that pitch before so it hasn't a win, draw or loss on it ever.

And your comment is looking more foolish with every passing over.

[mystiroakey]

I meant ground off course, i didnt expect you to take me literally when i said pitch!.. Why you making such a big deal of this?

[mystiroakey]

I suppose this is a classic example of my english getting in the way of my debate!! I admit that is shocking. OK?

Now go and practise your golf, you have the mid age to worry about!

Come on england!!

[Hibbz]

Oh you meant ground "off course"!

Silly me for thinking you meant pitch when you said pitch.

And besides it wasn't your opinion anyway you were just repeating what you'd heard weren't you.

Are you ever just plain wrong?

[Hibbz]

I suppose this is a classic example of my english getting in the way of my debate!! I admit that is shocking. OK?

Now go and practise your golf, you have the mid age to worry about!

Come on england!!

Screw England, come on the draw xx.

[mystiroakey]

Correct- i said it wasnt a drawing pitch(should have said ground) based on stats from Darren gough!(pretty reliable though)

Not sure if i am ever wrong tbh pal. I hope to be wrong and england can turn this around!

[mystiroakey]

I suppose this is a classic example of my english getting in the way of my debate!! I admit that is shocking. OK?

Now go and practise your golf, you have the mid age to worry about!

Come on england!!

Screw England, come on the draw xx.

Well i backed SA based on them odds- But id rather you were right. If its a draw(uneffected by rain) then I will admit I was wrong- hows zat!!!

[Liam]

Think England need to bat all day tomorrow and then till lunch/tea time on day 4 with hopefully somehow a lead of 250-70. Put SA in and see what they got. Big ask and will require big scores and SA to bowl a little wayward but its possible.

[Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler]

Im not bothering to follow the debate on here for this tests but have we managed to get over the idea that Finn is superhuman yet?

[mystiroakey]

Well its been a good start from england to there innings- fingers crossed

[Hibbz]

I suppose this is a classic example of my english getting in the way of my debate!! I admit that is shocking. OK?

Now go and practise your golf, you have the mid age to worry about!

Come on england!!

Screw England, come on the draw xx.

Well i backed SA based on them odds- But id rather you were right. If its a draw(uneffected by rain) then I will admit I was wrong- hows zat!!!

Considering it's already rained I guess you've done a pretty good ar$e covering exercise. I'm going to call you the eel from now on pal.

Then again if it were a draw I wouldn't put it past you to say that you'd thought it would be a draw all along and that when you said one team would win you'd meant it would be a draw.

[mystiroakey]

I suppose this is a classic example of my english getting in the way of my debate!! I admit that is shocking. OK?

Now go and practise your golf, you have the mid age to worry about!

Come on england!!

Screw England, come on the draw xx.

Well i backed SA based on them odds- But id rather you were right. If its a draw(uneffected by rain) then I will admit I was wrong- hows zat!!!

Considering it's already rained I guess you've done a pretty good ar$e covering exercise. I'm going to call you the eel from now on pal.

Then again if it were a draw I wouldn't put it past you to say that you'd thought it would be a draw all along and that when you said one team would win you'd meant it would be a draw.

ehhh- i mean significantly affected by the weather.. no i think sa will win sadly!- unless the rain takes at least a full day out of the game- then very good chance of the draw..obvioulsy

However its a bit sad that you seem to want the draw- to be proved right. When in reality i want a draw. Just down on england at the moment, like this whole forum allways is. but then from someone that supports germany what can i expect hey

[liverbnz]

Think England need to bat all day tomorrow and then till lunch/tea time on day 4 with hopefully somehow a lead of 250-70. Put SA in and see what they got. Big ask and will require big scores and SA to bowl a little wayward but its possible.

They'd have to go at 4 or more an over for that sort of lead. Lead of around 100 around tea on Sunday weather permitting, then have a go at a hopefully tired South Africa after they've spent 2 days in the field. Long shot, but you've got to have hope.

[Liam]

Think England need to bat all day tomorrow and then till lunch/tea time on day 4 with hopefully somehow a lead of 250-70. Put SA in and see what they got. Big ask and will require big scores and SA to bowl a little wayward but its possible.

They'd have to go at 4 or more an over for that sort of lead. Lead of around 100 around tea on Sunday weather permitting, then have a go at a hopefully tired South Africa after they've spent 2 days in the field. Long shot, but you've got to have hope.

I'm thinking if Cook/Trott/Strauss can get big scores and set up a decent total, Bell, KP, Taylor and Prior are all attack minded batsmen, Bell and KP look in terrific nick and Taylor, if there are runs on the board, can play with a little less pressure with Prior in fine nick also to come in.

Big ask like I said but its very unlikely. If we can get to 450 I'd be pleased but its not going to win us the game unfortunately.

[Duty281]

England simply need to bat until tea on Day 4 with around 100-150 lead. They then need to heap the pressure on the Saffers and hope that one of the pace quartet produces a blinding spell, leaving England to chase a small total on Day 5. It's very very doable.

[mystiroakey]

Duty with the optimistic stance- nice!!

We just dont want any rain!

[gboycottnut]

England simply need to bat until tea on Day 4 with around 100-150 lead. They then need to heap the pressure on the Saffers and hope that one of the pace quartet produces a blinding spell, leaving England to chase a small total on Day 5. It's very very doable.

England's batting surviving for more than 3 sessions V this South African attack is about as likely as TeamGB winning a swimming Gold medal in the London Olympics.

[JDizzle]

Game over. Far too big a total, and poor fielding along with lacklustre bowling from the likes of Broad (up until the 2nd new ball yesterday), Finn (dead ball disaster, too many four balls, a problem he had when he was dropped out in Australia and doesn't look to have fixed) and Bresnan (largely unthreatening) has cost us.

If we aren't at least 3 down by the close of play today I will eat my hat.

How many is that now Fists?

[gboycottnut]

Game over. Far too big a total, and poor fielding along with lacklustre bowling from the likes of Broad (up until the 2nd new ball yesterday), Finn (dead ball disaster, too many four balls, a problem he had when he was dropped out in Australia and doesn't look to have fixed) and Bresnan (largely unthreatening) has cost us.

If we aren't at least 3 down by the close of play today I will eat my hat.

How many is that now Fists?

It isn't necessarily game over yet. I would like to give hope to all England fans by saying that back in 2003 when England played South Africa at the Oval, the South Africans made 450 plus in their first innings. England then remarkably made 600 odd in their first innings, then somehow bowled out South Africa cheaply for under 250 in their second innings before successfully chasing down the winning target of 100 odd runs to win that test match. Mind you though in terms of batting England had Trescothick and Vaughan in their prime opening the batting, with backup from Stewart, Butcher, Thorpe and Flintoff. Arguably a better batting lineup than the current England batting lineup of Cook,Strauss,Trott,The Big Show,Bell,Taylor.

[DouglasJardinesbox]

Im not bothering to follow the debate on here for this tests but have we managed to get over the idea that Finn is superhuman yet?

He;s still worth more to the team that Johhny B or Ravi's brilliant 10 runs per innings etc., don't you think?

[Pal Joey]

Im not bothering to follow the debate on here for this tests but have we managed to get over the idea that Finn is superhuman yet?

He;s still worth more to the team that Johhny B or Ravi's brilliant 10 runs per innings etc., don't you think?

Good point.

PSW is always the first to crumble... so I'm not surprised at all

Finn may have a blinder in the 2nd innings. It's not over yet.

[ShankyCricket]

Finn has been generally inaccurate and quite possibly the least effective of the bowlers this morning. He was the same for most of the evening session.

I just don't understand England's logic to be honest. If they felt it was a bowl first pitch due to the cloud cover then what exactly does Finn add? He doesn't really swing the ball much and Headingly is not exactly the hardest pitch in England so I'm not sure what he offered over Swann. They already have 3 pace bowlers who combined offer everything that Finn does except for the overrated extra few yards of pace.

The decision has now backfired as they would surely have expected to be batting by now after winning the toss. (They possibly would be if Swann was playing as he's a much better slipper than Cook). The only way to win this match will be to bat big and bowl South Africa out again in a limited amount of overs - but with no spinner. I can't see that happening.

Interestingly, the "overrated few yards of pace" still managed better figures than your golden boy.

[FerN]

England did bat well, and did well to not lose a wicket there. I just don't see a result in this game

[guildfordbat]

England simply need to bat until tea on Day 4 with around 100-150 lead ....

In our desire to bat to tea on day four with a lead of 100 - 150, we shouldn't overlook we still need to bat to around tea on day three and avoid the follow on ....

[liverbnz]

Finn has been generally inaccurate and quite possibly the least effective of the bowlers this morning. He was the same for most of the evening session.

I just don't understand England's logic to be honest. If they felt it was a bowl first pitch due to the cloud cover then what exactly does Finn add? He doesn't really swing the ball much and Headingly is not exactly the hardest pitch in England so I'm not sure what he offered over Swann. They already have 3 pace bowlers who combined offer everything that Finn does except for the overrated extra few yards of pace.

The decision has now backfired as they would surely have expected to be batting by now after winning the toss. (They possibly would be if Swann was playing as he's a much better slipper than Cook). The only way to win this match will be to bat big and bowl South Africa out again in a limited amount of overs - but with no spinner. I can't see that happening.

Interestingly, the "overrated few yards of pace" still managed better figures than your golden boy.

yep, the wickets of Morkel and Steyn should see his place solidified for the next few years as well as the dross he served up to the top 6 who he gave away over 4 runs an over to.

And neither is Bresnan my 'golden boy', I was just trying to counter the exagerrated argument that Finn would make some sort of massive difference to this England side.

[mystiroakey]

Finn was never gonna make a massive difference- we have great bowlers- but he could have offered something fresh and different and make bowlers realise there places are not secured

[DouglasJardinesbox]

Finn has been generally inaccurate and quite possibly the least effective of the bowlers this morning. He was the same for most of the evening session.

I just don't understand England's logic to be honest. If they felt it was a bowl first pitch due to the cloud cover then what exactly does Finn add? He doesn't really swing the ball much and Headingly is not exactly the hardest pitch in England so I'm not sure what he offered over Swann. They already have 3 pace bowlers who combined offer everything that Finn does except for the overrated extra few yards of pace.

The decision has now backfired as they would surely have expected to be batting by now after winning the toss. (They possibly would be if Swann was playing as he's a much better slipper than Cook). The only way to win this match will be to bat big and bowl South Africa out again in a limited amount of overs - but with no spinner. I can't see that happening.

Interestingly, the "overrated few yards of pace" still managed better figures than your golden boy.

yep, the wickets of Morkel and Steyn should see his place solidified for the next few years as well as the dross he served up to the top 6 who he gave away over 4 runs an over to.

And neither is Bresnan my 'golden boy', I was just trying to counter the exagerrated argument that Finn would make some sort of massive difference to this England side.

As far as I can see, it's only the anti-Finn fans who have said anything about a massive difference. Or the Pro-Bopara / Morgan / Bairstow / Taylor fans who would rather waste a position that have an other bowling option.....

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