Early Season Dark Horses

Well with the season not long to go before kick off and looking at this seasons Rabbo early round matches, I cant help but feel that Edinburgh and the Blues are going to be boggey sides to catch early.

Most of the Internationals will see enforced rest periods in the opening rounds so this will affect Ospreys, Leinster, Munster & Scarlets more than most.

For me personally I cant help but feel that Edinburgh and Blues have recruited with this in mind. Both potential starting 15's look a bit too good on paper.

I've not been the Blues biggest fan either (on record) but I think Phil will make a difference to their game. Last season they where totally woeful to watch. They played fairly well by all accounts in South Africa and scoring some tries so clearly the early warning light is on already. Edinburgh too have recruited with internationals being away (unlike Glasgow who look much weaker when the internationals away).

Particular highlights for me will be to see how the Georgian 8 goes at Edinburgh and Borrust at the Blues.

These are my two teams to avoid in the opening 3-5 rounds. What are yours?

To be honest we all know who we have in the openning month or so of the Rabo and there is no avoiding it. But I think Zebre and Connacht will be the sides that get he most people talking in the openning rounds.

Zebre are an unknown quantity, but are being written of as a poorer version of Aironi, and I have a feeling they will be out to prove otherwise. We all know how dangerous Connacht are at the start of every season.

The Dragons have Zebre at home, Leinster away then the Blues at home.


Zebre are an unknown entity but will be looking to make a name for themselves, the first game of the season being at home will set the tone for the Dragon's season I think. The partisan crowd at the Dave never lack commitment and passion - lets just hope the boys in black do the same. We've taken some big names at the 'House of hate' including the Ospreys and Munster in recent years so there is no reason we cant beat this new Italian team.

Even without its International players Leisnter away is a massive task for any team, let alone the Dragons. I'm guessing they'll still have Isa(?) and will be showing off their strength in depth.

The we have your dark horse at home - The Keeerrrdiff Blues. Our record agasint them isn't great, their ex Dragon players love rubbing it in the fan's faces so I'm not confident here either, especially as their international players should be trickling back too. Will be a great battle of the backrows if Faletau and Lydiate are back for the Dragons.

Welshmushroom wrote:Well with the season not long to go before kick off and looking at this seasons Rabbo early round matches, I cant help but feel that Edinburgh and the Blues are going to be boggey sides to catch early.

Most of the Internationals will see enforced rest periods in the opening rounds so this will affect Ospreys, Leinster, Munster & Scarlets more than most.

For me personally I cant help but feel that Edinburgh and Blues have recruited with this in mind. Both potential starting 15's look a bit too good on paper.

I've not been the Blues biggest fan either (on record) but I think Phil will make a difference to their game. Last season they where totally woeful to watch. They played fairly well by all accounts in South Africa and scoring some tries so clearly the early warning light is on already. Edinburgh too have recruited with internationals being away (unlike Glasgow who look much weaker when the internationals away).

Particular highlights for me will be to see how the Georgian 8 goes at Edinburgh and Borrust at the Blues.

These are my two teams to avoid in the opening 3-5 rounds. What are yours?

Could you substantiate the highlighted comment, mushroom? Which players are you thinking of?

Well for Edinburgh the Richie Rees and John Yapp signings are excellent moves. I rate both players very highly. In fairness to Yapp he was never given a proper chance to develop because of Jenkins being ahead of him.

Given Welsh selectors won't pick these pair they should be available to Edinburgh for most of the Rabbo Campaign.

Nel at Tighthead looks impressive too from what I have seen and with the addition of Titterrell (Granted not the worlds greatest hooker) but plenty of experience to cover the internationals when they are away.

Tim Swinson (Newcastle) for me could be the pick of the bunch. A very solid performer and I expect him to play his part throughout the campaign. Plays at Lock but may end up in the backrow for them as well.

Basilia should add another ball carrying option at 8 (and he is the one im looking forward to seeing in the Rabbo).

Atiga, Tonks and Penn should all add a little something extra to the Edinburgh backline throughout the campaign. Granted none of those are standout players but neither will they be missing so will add options to the team.

For me most of those will add strength to Edinburgh and could very well see them challenging top 4 playoffs come the end of the season providing the new players gel quickly.

Welshmushroom wrote:Well for Edinburgh the Richie Rees and John Yapp signings are excellent moves. I rate both players very highly. In fairness to Yapp he was never given a proper chance to develop because of Jenkins being ahead of him.

Given Welsh selectors won't pick these pair they should be available to Edinburgh for most of the Rabbo Campaign.

Nel at Tighthead looks impressive too from what I have seen and with the addition of Titterrell (Granted not the worlds greatest hooker) but plenty of experience to cover the internationals when they are away.

Tim Swinson (Newcastle) for me could be the pick of the bunch. A very solid performer and I expect him to play his part throughout the campaign. Plays at Lock but may end up in the backrow for them as well.

Basilia should add another ball carrying option at 8 (and he is the one im looking forward to seeing in the Rabbo).

Atiga, Tonks and Penn should all add a little something extra to the Edinburgh backline throughout the campaign. Granted none of those are standout players but neither will they be missing so will add options to the team.

For me most of those will add strength to Edinburgh and could very well see them challenging top 4 playoffs come the end of the season providing the new players gel quickly.

Which Glasgow players are you comparing these to, just out of interest then? Btw, Swinson is at Glasgow

Zebre will finish rock bottom. I would be surprised if they performed better than Aironi last season.

This season is the first season ever that Connacht have a strong squad. Usually they flog the same team to death which results in losing runs. Their team is slightly stronger but they'll do because they won't go on losing runs like last seaons 14 game losing run. They also had the most losing bonus points and lost a lot of games from poor kicks. Dan Parks is a quality kicker who will improve them in this area.

Cardiff are the other dark horses. They've had big player losses but maybe alot of those players were deadwood and now th new players are younger and hungrier. The new coach will help too. He could make the biggest difference along with Jason Tovey who might suit Cardiff better.

Edinburgh have a bigger squad this season and will finish higher in the league.

Munster will be stronger this season. The new coaches have new ideas and can only be a big improvement on the last. They've signed some quality players and the next gen is a year older. Munster are in transition but have a big squad that'll make them competitive throughout the campaign. They've a tough start being away to Ulster, Leinster, Edinburgh and Ospreys in their first 6 games but a win or two there would be a bonus.

Glasgow already had great depth in their tight 5 so Swinson was the only new recruit needed there after Gray leaving, although those are big boots to fill. Elsewhere they have recruited well, signing Angus Macdonald, Viliami Ma'afu, Nikola Matawalu, Sean Lamont, Byron McGuigan (from last year's 7s squad), the young Canadian Taylor Paris as well as some new development players.

I would say some of the signings at both Edinburgh and Glasgow have a lot to prove, some have not really been tested at the top level of 15s rugby (Paris, Matawalu, McGuigan, and at Edinburgh Penn and Parker for example). Also Atiga has been out of top flight rugby for a while and Macdonald playing in Japan so I'm not sure what to expect from these guys. But reports from Glasgow's friendly at Castres were positive with McGuigan and Paris scoring tries and Macdonald and Swinson singled out for praise so looking good so far.

Overall I'm feeling pretty positive about both sides, they should both do better during international windows this year, and the increased competition for places will push the current players to improve.

I guess the international players will be phased in though, having only just started pre-season, also Nel has only just arrived from SA and I think van der Westhuizen isn't coming until after the Currie Cup is finished

munkian wrote:The Dragons have Zebre at home, Leinster away then the Blues at home.
We've taken some big names at the 'House of hate'

Who calls it that?

Can't see Zebre being competitive, such a pointless team to include in the comp

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:

Welshmushroom wrote:Well for Edinburgh the Richie Rees and John Yapp signings are excellent moves. I rate both players very highly. In fairness to Yapp he was never given a proper chance to develop because of Jenkins being ahead of him.

Given Welsh selectors won't pick these pair they should be available to Edinburgh for most of the Rabbo Campaign.

Nel at Tighthead looks impressive too from what I have seen and with the addition of Titterrell (Granted not the worlds greatest hooker) but plenty of experience to cover the internationals when they are away.

Tim Swinson (Newcastle) for me could be the pick of the bunch. A very solid performer and I expect him to play his part throughout the campaign. Plays at Lock but may end up in the backrow for them as well.

Basilia should add another ball carrying option at 8 (and he is the one im looking forward to seeing in the Rabbo).

Atiga, Tonks and Penn should all add a little something extra to the Edinburgh backline throughout the campaign. Granted none of those are standout players but neither will they be missing so will add options to the team.

For me most of those will add strength to Edinburgh and could very well see them challenging top 4 playoffs come the end of the season providing the new players gel quickly.

Which Glasgow players are you comparing these to, just out of interest then? Btw, Swinson is at Glasgow

Thought I'd help you out, mushroom.

Edinburgh:

1. Jacobson (Yapp, Walker, Allan, Cringle)
2. Ford (Titterell, Lawrie, Turner)
3. Nel (Cross, Niven, Hislop)
4. van der Westhuizen (Parker, Gilchrist)
5. Cox (Turnbull, McAlpine)
6. Denton (McInally)
7. Rennie (Grant)
8. Talei (Basilaia, McInally)

9. Rees (Leck, Laidlaw, Black)
10. Laidlaw (Leonard, Hunter)
11. T. Visser (Penn, Farndale, Atiga)
12. Scott (King, Houston)
13. De Luca (Atiga, Tonks, Cairns)
14. Jones (Fife)
15. Brown (Atiga, Tonks, S. Visser, Cairns)


Glasgow:

1. Grant (Welsh, Reid)
2. MacArthur (Hall, Gillies)
3. Cusack (Low, Kalman)
4. Kellock (Harley, Gray)
5. Swinson (Ryder, Campbell)
6. Harley (Macdonald)
7. Fusaro (Barclay)
8. Ma’afu (Wilson)

9. Cusiter (Matawalu, Pyrgos, McConnell)
10. Weir (Jackson, Wight)
11. S Lamont (Shaw)
12. Dunbar (Morrison,Russell, Dick)
13. DTHvdM (Nathan, McGuigan)
14. Ramont (Seymour, Paris)
15. Hogg (Murchie, Thomson)

International squad members in bold, immediate replacements at club level in italics. Reckon Glasgow looks a little stronger

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:

munkian wrote:The Dragons have Zebre at home, Leinster away then the Blues at home.
We've taken some big names at the 'House of hate'

Who calls it that?

Never heard it before but it some you lot up to a tee. I can't wait to hear the 'he knocked it off' (and 'off off off' with every pen against you) chant again

profitius wrote:Zebre will finish rock bottom. I would be surprised if they performed better than Aironi last season.

This season is the first season ever that Connacht have a strong squad. Usually they flog the same team to death which results in losing runs. Their team is slightly stronger but they'll do because they won't go on losing runs like last seaons 14 game losing run. They also had the most losing bonus points and lost a lot of games from poor kicks. Dan Parks is a quality kicker who will improve them in this area.

Cardiff are the other dark horses. They've had big player losses but maybe alot of those players were deadwood and now th new players are younger and hungrier. The new coach will help too. He could make the biggest difference along with Jason Tovey who might suit Cardiff better.

Edinburgh have a bigger squad this season and will finish higher in the league.

Munster will be stronger this season. The new coaches have new ideas and can only be a big improvement on the last. They've signed some quality players and the next gen is a year older. Munster are in transition but have a big squad that'll make them competitive throughout the campaign. They've a tough start being away to Ulster, Leinster, Edinburgh and Ospreys in their first 6 games but a win or two there would be a bonus.

Not being disrespectful but every season since the Celtic Warriors were disbanded the Cardiff Blues have been touted as the 'dark horses', whether it be a move to the new state of the art stadium, or the HEC semi-final, or the Amlin Cup trophy, or the returning to CAP.

Just thinking a genuine Dark Horse to win the Rabo would be Leinster .

Didn't Blues show what sort of crap strength-in-depth Edinburgh had at the tail-end of last season? And you think Yapp and Rees can turn that around...

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:

munkian wrote:The Dragons have Zebre at home, Leinster away then the Blues at home.
We've taken some big names at the 'House of hate'

Who calls it that?

It was the Ospreys coach (possibly Johnson) after we beat the Ospreys at Rodney parade - I forget which time He suggested the partisan homecrowd put some of his big players underpressure and likened it to a 'house of hate'

And it's 'knocked it on'

ScarletSpiderman wrote:

profitius wrote:Zebre will finish rock bottom. I would be surprised if they performed better than Aironi last season.

This season is the first season ever that Connacht have a strong squad. Usually they flog the same team to death which results in losing runs. Their team is slightly stronger but they'll do because they won't go on losing runs like last seaons 14 game losing run. They also had the most losing bonus points and lost a lot of games from poor kicks. Dan Parks is a quality kicker who will improve them in this area.

Cardiff are the other dark horses. They've had big player losses but maybe alot of those players were deadwood and now th new players are younger and hungrier. The new coach will help too. He could make the biggest difference along with Jason Tovey who might suit Cardiff better.

Edinburgh have a bigger squad this season and will finish higher in the league.

Munster will be stronger this season. The new coaches have new ideas and can only be a big improvement on the last. They've signed some quality players and the next gen is a year older. Munster are in transition but have a big squad that'll make them competitive throughout the campaign. They've a tough start being away to Ulster, Leinster, Edinburgh and Ospreys in their first 6 games but a win or two there would be a bonus.

Not being disrespectful but every season since the Celtic Warriors were disbanded the Cardiff Blues have been touted as the 'dark horses', whether it be a move to the new state of the art stadium, or the HEC semi-final, or the Amlin Cup trophy, or the returning to CAP.

Just thinking a genuine Dark Horse to win the Rabo would be Leinster .

I make them dark horses his season because they're after getting rid of loads of players so expectations among the general public might not be very high.

profitius - i don't know, I have not heard a single person say anything other than they will be the team to watch this season (like I said as they do every season), nobody seems to think that expectations are low.

ScarletSpiderman wrote:profitius - i don't know, I have not heard a single person say anything other than they will be the team to watch this season (like I said as they do every season), nobody seems to think that expectations are low.

Being in different countries could explain that, ScarletSpiderman. Maybe people have always thought they underachieved too.

gowales wrote:Can't see Zebre being competitive, such a pointless team to include in the comp

That is a ridiculous post GW...!!! We haven't even seen them play.

maestegmafia wrote:

gowales wrote:Can't see Zebre being competitive, such a pointless team to include in the comp

That is a ridiculous post GW...!!! We haven't even seen them play.

They have no future as a side, no support. They are included for political reasons. Aironi weren't competitive, so i can't see why a team that is arguably worse is going to be any better

You have no way of knowing whether they'll be worse. Why assume they will be?

Because their squad is worse? They are starting from scratch again? and there seems to be a lot of negativity surrounding them in Italy.

It can take years to develop new teams. Especially Italian ones. I'm sure the reason they disbanded Aironi and moved location was because of the greater potential in the new location.

Aironi are in for a few rocky years ahead, no doubt about that. The longer they last though the greater chance they have of succeeding. Connacht would be an example of a team that had to fight to survive including organising a protest march in Dublin when the IRFU were going to shut them down. Now they're on the right path.

profitius wrote:It can take years to develop new teams. Especially Italian ones. I'm sure the reason they disbanded Aironi and moved location was because of the greater potential in the new location.

Aironi are in for a few rocky years ahead, no doubt about that. The longer they last though the greater chance they have of succeeding. Connacht would be an example of a team that had to fight to survive including organising a protest march in Dublin when the IRFU were going to shut them down. Now they're on the right path.

Nope. Aironi ran out of money and they had the option of moving it to anywhere they wanted in Italy.
The location they've chosen is completely wrong and has no future for a professional rugby team. It's all been done for political reasons. They should have chosen Rome or another similar region.

gowales - do you really think any of us welsh have the right to comment on where a region should or shouldn't work? After all we have made our blunders.

I do think that people who are slagging Zebre off will be supprise by them. I ain't saying they will win the HEC or the Rabo, or even get near winning. However I am saying that I believe they are going to be a far better team than people expect, and would not be suprised if they pick up a win or two in the Rabo.

We play Zebre first up. As a Dragons fan, I'm not taking them lightly at all!

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:We play Zebre first up. As a Dragons fan, I'm not taking them lightly at all!

I remember when the Italians first joined and we had Treviso first. I was not expecting to crush them, but confident we would win (and we almost did), and that bit me in the ass. I wonder who will be the first to lose to Zebre, I hope its Tigers in the HEC.

ScarletSpiderman wrote:gowales - do you really think any of us welsh have the right to comment on where a region should or shouldn't work? After all we have made our blunders.

I do think that people who are slagging Zebre off will be supprise by them. I ain't saying they will win the HEC or the Rabo, or even get near winning. However I am saying that I believe they are going to be a far better team than people expect, and would not be suprised if they pick up a win or two in the Rabo.

I'm just saying what most Italian's have said

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:We play Zebre first up. As a Dragons fan, I'm not taking them lightly at all!

I wouldnt either, if i were a Dragon fan !

I personally think Zebre could be stronger. They dont have as many senior players in their side granted, but thats not to say there are not a couple of young Benvenuti's waiting in the wing to grab their chance. They also have experience from the league as a good core part of the squad have played in the Rabbo for the last 2 seasons. Sure they wont be as dangerous as Treviso but I wouldnt rule them out for some upsets. Even if they dont fair well it should allow Italy to expose more youngster to pro rugby which will be beneficial to them in the long run.

ScarletSpiderman wrote:

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:We play Zebre first up. As a Dragons fan, I'm not taking them lightly at all!

I remember when the Italians first joined and we had Treviso first. I was not expecting to crush them, but confident we would win (and we almost did), and that bit me in the ass. I wonder who will be the first to lose to Zebre, I hope its Tigers in the HEC.

I remember a poster called EastScarlet on the old 606 predicted a 60 point win for the Scarlets in that match they lost against Treviso, on Treviso's debut - never seen him on the boards after that.

Zener sign an Ozzie utility back, ex Warratahs...!

http://www.rabodirectpro12.com/news/14398.php


History on Zebre

Fondate originariamente nel 1973 dall’allora capitano della Nazionale, Marco Bollesan, come club ad inviti riservato ai migliori giocatori del campionato italiano le Zebre hanno svolto la propria attività agonistica in particolar modo nel Nord-Ovest. L’ultimo incontro disputato dalle Zebre in forma di invitational club risale al 1996. L’8 giugno 2012, a seguito della revoca della licenza di partecipazione degli Aironi Rugby al Rabodirect PRO12, la Federazione Italiana Rugby ha assunto la titolarità del nome “Zebre” per la nuova franchigia a gestione federale con sede a Parma.

Piloni PROPS

Matias AGUERO
Andrea DE MARCHI
Carlo FAZZARI*
Luciano LEIBSON
Salvatore PERUGINI
Luca REDOLFINI
David RYAN
Flavio TRIPODI

Tallonatori HOOKERS

Carlo FESTUCCIA
Davide GIAZZON
Andrea MANICI*

Seconde linee SECOND ROW

Marco BORTOLAMI
Filippo CAZZOLA*
Quintin GELDENHUYS
Michael VAN VUREN

Flanker/n.8
Nicola BELARDO*
Mauro BERGAMASCO
Emiliano CAFFINI*
Nicola CATTINA
Filippo CRISTIANO
Filippo FERRARINI*
Andries VAN SCHALKWYK
Josh SOLE

Mediani di mischia SCRUM HALFS

Alberto CHILLON*
Luca MARTINELLI*
Tito TEBALDI

Mediani d’apertura FLYHALFS
Paolo BUSO
Luciano ORQUERA

Centri/Ali/Estremi CENTREs/WINGERS/FULLBACKS

Alberto CHIESA*
Gonzalo GARCIA
David ODIETE*
Alberto BENETTIN*
Samuele PACE
Matteo PRATICHETTI
Roberto QUARTAROLI*
Leonardo SARTO*
Sinoti SINOTI
Ruggero TREVISAN*
Giovanbattista VENDITTI*

*è/è stato membro dell’Accademia FIR “Ivan Francescato” di Tirrenia

I really wouldn't be expecting too much of Tim Swinson Glasgow fans, is he expected to be first choice?

gowales wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:

gowales wrote:Can't see Zebre being competitive, such a pointless team to include in the comp

That is a ridiculous post GW...!!! We haven't even seen them play.

They have no future as a side, no support. They are included for political reasons. Aironi weren't competitive, so i can't see why a team that is arguably worse is going to be any better

Absolute rubbish. Rugby is very popular, as a growing sport, in Northern Italy. There are vlubs all over the northern provinces, Liguria to RE. The club has been around for forty years. Parma is a massive university town a fantastic place to visit.

You might be aware of some of famous foods that come from Parma, like Parma ham and Parmesan cheese.

I highly recommend to Rabbo team fans that an away trip to watch your team play Zebre will be very enjoyable. I'd recommend taking your missus too. Reggio Emiglia is a beautiful province.

Zebre had a very good win over northampton in pre season. So that should give them great confidence going into the new season.

This is the year Ulster are firmly flying under the radar then!

New coach, new confidence from a great European Cup run last season, unlucky to have missed out on the playoffs last year, much more strength in depth this year and some excellent signings to boot. I'm surprised we're not rated as more of a threat. And pleased, because you won't see us coming until it's too late

Artful_Dodger wrote:

ScarletSpiderman wrote:

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:We play Zebre first up. As a Dragons fan, I'm not taking them lightly at all!

I remember when the Italians first joined and we had Treviso first. I was not expecting to crush them, but confident we would win (and we almost did), and that bit me in the ass. I wonder who will be the first to lose to Zebre, I hope its Tigers in the HEC.

I remember a poster called EastScarlet on the old 606 predicted a 60 point win for the Scarlets in that match they lost against Treviso, on Treviso's debut - never seen him on the boards after that.

East used to be pretty reliable poster too, not sure where he went. Seems like some of hte old 606 faithful have disappeared (JB<numbers>, Ospreylain1, Monte Fisto etc)

.

LeinsterFan4life wrote:Zebre had a very good win over northampton in pre season. So that should give them great confidence going into the new season.

Oh great!