So... Anthony Joshua Gets Gold

by AlexHuckerby Sun 12 Aug 2012, 4:38 pm

Yay.

So the obvious questions, will the man go pro? Will he be the dreaded Audley repeat? Will he stay amateur and get a bit more experience? Will he be any good? And all that shebazz.

Think he could do well as a pro, seems to learn things fast and seems to have a strong desire for success.

So wwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwha you think?

by manos de piedra Sun 12 Aug 2012, 4:50 pm

If he is going to go pro, I think he may aswell do it now. The gold medal and national acclaim will mean he carries a great profile into the pro game and will benefit financially. Also, with the differences between the pro and amateur game being so large at the moment, Im not sure staying amateur neccessarily prepares you much better for the pro game anymore. Probably better to get into the pro ranks earlier and not get to settled on the amateur system if your intention is to go pro eventually.

He still got plenty of developing to do I think and will need several years in the pro ranks before he can start thinking about world level. One step at a time I think. Try and make sure you get the important decisions regarding trainer, promoter and contracts correct and then take it from there. You would like to think that any boxer, especially young ones, that win a gold meal would at least have the potential to do well in the pro game so I think its about looking to take the next step in his development. Im not going to make any bold predictions about where he ends up as a pro just yet though.

by TheMackemMawler Sun 12 Aug 2012, 5:40 pm

He can be as successfull as Bruno, without the adoration, I have a suspicion he will go to pot when a pro banger tags him. That is not a put down. He just strikes me as a big brave guy who's legs will stiffen and who's heart will not let him take a knee. If he can his way back into contention after major setbacks like Bruno then would be a major acheivement. I know Glen Johnson has done this numerous times, anyone know of other modern boxers that lose multiple title challengers but always get another shot. Mosely?

by TheMackemMawler Sun 12 Aug 2012, 5:48 pm

Forget that, it's unfair to intentionally change the direction of the thread so soon.

by Rodney Sun 12 Aug 2012, 6:40 pm

I think he performed fantastically for a guy who is basically a novice of 4 years, as Manos said he may as well get pro now, my only worry looking at Joshua, he seems very heavily muscled bound, his arms are massive and a stature similar of Bruno. He doesn't look the most athletic guy possessing an abundance of agility, however as a prospect goes I'm sure he'll do well, it's not as though we are cram packed with talent in the heavyweight division.

Cheers

Rodders

by 6oldenbhoy Sun 12 Aug 2012, 6:56 pm

Supposedly he's said he's staying amateur.

by Rodney Sun 12 Aug 2012, 6:59 pm

alma wrote:Yeah rodders I thought he looks a bit overmuscled. Was there today right at the front. great atmosphere I have to say. Had the privilege of being just behind Adam booth and his male 'companion'.

Nice one mate, sounded a fantastic atmosphere on T.V so can't imagine what it must've been like in the arena.

Cheers

Rodders

by AlexHuckerby Sun 12 Aug 2012, 7:06 pm

alma wrote:Yeah rodders I thought he looks a bit overmuscled. Was there today right at the front. great atmosphere I have to say. Had the privilege of being just behind Adam booth and his male 'companion'.

No hints there alma, haha.

by OasisBFC Sun 12 Aug 2012, 9:17 pm

i like the look of him - he's tall with an excellent physique. i with the right trainer his physique may change - plus he's only young - its scary to think he may still grow a little!

he's got big desire and could make millions - he's in the big paying division and will be fast tracked to riches far faster than his counterparts. he's have to keep a level head - apparently he turned down £50,000 to turn pro a couple of years ago.

i've got a feeling his chin isnt the best though. i dont know, he just seemed to have been rocked a couple of times. with the right trainer he can go far.

he's sparred with fury and by tyson's account did very well. a little too well. and regardless of what you think of fury, he's top 10 in the world.

by davidemore Mon 13 Aug 2012, 10:10 am

He has heart, power in both hands and a solid jab. He needs to develop and not get involved in slugging, and he needs to work on his feet movement, but the attributes are there, he can be a very good boxer. I mainly feel this because of his heart. He's young though, so will need guidance and some active years fighting lower class opposition before he steps up. He has time though, and it can be done. A great talent, he Joshua can be explosive, and he looks hungry.

by azania Mon 13 Aug 2012, 10:53 am

He should turn pro now. I echo what emore said. The kid has talent and will go far. I don't see anything chinny about him. He tood some good shots without flinching/ The Italian Cop who sent Price to bambiland hit Josh just as hard and he remained firm.

Great prospect. GBP are knocking already.

by Rowley Mon 13 Aug 2012, 11:08 am

I personally am in little doubt he will turn pro. Think he was perhaps being political yesterday and felt announcing an intention to go pro yesterday would have spoilt the generally celebratory vibe. Think with a little time he is going to realize four years is a long time and whilst an Olympic gold is something extremely impressive winning a second does represent going over old ground for him. Add into that the fact that there are likely to be extremely lucrative offers being waved in front of him and I suspect he will turn over soon enough.

by davidemore Mon 13 Aug 2012, 11:28 am

He's had less than 50 fights so i think another year of amateur fights would do him some good. He is very capable and has real force behind his punches. Joshua was one of the few fighters i saw who was happy to put hurt on an opponent when the chance arose. That really matters in the pro ranks. Plus, he has a huge amount of self belief, both, if nurtured, are excellent attributes, IMO.

by Mind the windows Tino. Mon 13 Aug 2012, 11:36 am

davidemore wrote:He's had less than 50 fights so i think another year of amateur fights would do him some good. He is very capable and has real force behind his punches. Joshua was one of the few fighters i saw who was happy to put hurt on an opponent when the chance arose. That really matters in the pro ranks. Plus, he has a huge amount of self belief, both, if nurtured are excellent attributes, IMO.

Precisely why he should turn pro now and not mess around for another year. He doesn't have a typically 'amateur' style and I wouldn't want him to start developing one either. Assuming his desire is to turn pro, why mess around for another year, fiddling about in the amateurs when he has already claimed the highest honor he can achieve.

He should make his choices carefully about what trainer and promotional set up he goes with, but he has the physique and nasty streak that could, if nurtured correctly, take him a long way in the pros. Don't let any 'bad' amateur habits creep in and hinder his development.

by TopHat24/7 Mon 13 Aug 2012, 11:47 am

Was a ridiculously soft stoppage alma. He basically wobbled Price against the ropes, that was it.

So green I'd like to see him go to the commonwealth games in 2014 then go pro. LL did 2 OGs, don't see 2 more years being that much of an issue.

by Mind the windows Tino. Mon 13 Aug 2012, 11:50 am

alma wrote:

It's got to be Matchroom, if he does go pro. Sky would love to have him on the undercard of Brook/Froch fights, that would be great.

I guess so, unless he decides to go with a US based team. My only worry would be that Froch won't be carrying on forever, and Brook may not even make it any further than he has.

There is a danger that they could start to push him too quick in order to carry the stable.

by Rowley Mon 13 Aug 2012, 11:52 am

My own view is boxing is a tricky enough game to make a living at sometimes there is something to be said for striking whilst the iron is hot. Common sense would dictate that Joshua will only improve and should be a massive favourite at either the next commonwealth games or Brazil on four years, but what if he either loses at those tournaments or picks up an injury that prevents him competing? If either of these happens he may well find the others being made to him are a damned sight less lucrative than they are currently.

Also if GB does not have the same levels of success generally next time round there may not be the general Olympics fever that TV companies and promoters will be keen to cash in on, for me he should take the money.

by davidemore Mon 13 Aug 2012, 11:55 am

I guess the benefit of him turning pro now is the fact that he has a massive audience waiting for him. But, he needs to start slow against some serious cab drivers' lol.

by **88Chris05** Mon 13 Aug 2012, 11:57 am

I think turning professional now makes the most sense. The fact that he's already capped an unpaid career with Olympic gold despite having fewer than fifty official amateur contests says, to me at least, that the amateur game has little left to teach him.

As long as he learns the professional game properly (ie, on undercards for at least his first dozen to fifteen fights) then I think striking while the iron's hot would be his best option.

by TopHat24/7 Mon 13 Aug 2012, 11:58 am

Mind the windows Tino. wrote:
alma wrote:

It's got to be Matchroom, if he does go pro. Sky would love to have him on the undercard of Brook/Froch fights, that would be great.

I guess so, unless he decides to go with a US based team. My only worry would be that Froch won't be carrying on forever, and Brook may not even make it any further than he has.

There is a danger that they could start to push him too quick in order to carry the stable.

GBP look to be tapping him up already, messAges from ODLH and team last night.

by TopHat24/7 Mon 13 Aug 2012, 12:01 pm

88Chris05 wrote:I think turning professional now makes the most sense. The fact that he's already capped an unpaid career with Olympic gold despite having fewer than fifty official amateur contests says, to me at least, that the amateur game has little left to teach him.

As long as he learns the professional game properly (ie, on undercards for at least his first dozen to fifteen fights) then I think striking while the iron's hot would be his best option.

If he does that everyone will moan he's moving too slow. Problem with striking when the iron is hot, I.e. when there's the most hype, is that expectation (and impatience) are inflated.

by davidemore Mon 13 Aug 2012, 12:04 pm

Great point Tophat.

by azania Mon 13 Aug 2012, 12:09 pm

TopHat24/7 wrote:Was a ridiculously soft stoppage alma. He basically wobbled Price against the ropes, that was it.

So green I'd like to see him go to the commonwealth games in 2014 then go pro. LL did 2 OGs, don't see 2 more years being that much of an issue.

Most amateur stoppages are soft. But Price went and did a dance. Joshua took bigger punches and did not wobble. Chinny he is not.

He should turn pro now. He's reached the mountain top as an amateur. A new challenge is required. I see a world champ and a dominant one in 4 years. Unless that is he takes the new route and has 3 fights a year.

by **88Chris05** Mon 13 Aug 2012, 12:09 pm

I see your point, TopHat, but surely it would only be the extremely foolish who don't really understand the concepts of professional boxing who'd be "moaning" like that? In short, not exactly the people with whom Joshua would be concerning himself.

Besides, pleasing the fans - even casual ones - should be the least of his concerns in the early stages of his paid career. You only get one career, and not many of them have the added advantage of an Olympic medal to help launch it. He seems a pretty grounded lad, so I'm sure he'll know this already, but there should be zero room for ego or trying to become a mega star as soon as possible as a professional - those early fights, as well as the preparations, tactics, learning curves, trainers etc which go with them, are going to be vital in determining how his career unfolds. The more tucked away he is for them, the better in many ways.

by compelling and rich Mon 13 Aug 2012, 12:26 pm

theres a big difference between the likes of a audley who turned pro at 30 and banged on about winning world titles ten fought tin cans than joshua who's still very young and has time on his side. the likes of audley and lewis had to crack on because of limited time, joshua wouldnt and dont think people would be too harsh on a 22 year taking his time abit

by TopHat24/7 Mon 13 Aug 2012, 12:32 pm

88Chris05 wrote:I see your point, TopHat, but surely it would only be the extremely foolish who don't really understand the concepts of professional boxing who'd be "moaning" like that? In short, not exactly the people with whom Joshua would be concerning himself.

Besides, pleasing the fans - even casual ones - should be the least of his concerns in the early stages of his paid career. You only get one career, and not many of them have the added advantage of an Olympic medal to help launch it. He seems a pretty grounded lad, so I'm sure he'll know this already, but there should be zero room for ego or trying to become a mega star as soon as possible as a professional - those early fights, as well as the preparations, tactics, learning curves, trainers etc which go with them, are going to be vital in determining how his career unfolds. The more tucked away he is for them, the better in many ways.

I 100% agree Chris, but thats different to Joe public who I worry will burden him with undue pressure. Added to the weakness of the division he''ll up in to high a contention too soon (Euro at 15 fights).

by compelling and rich Mon 13 Aug 2012, 12:46 pm

alma wrote:
compelling and rich wrote:theres a big difference between the likes of a audley who turned pro at 30 and banged on about winning world titles ten fought tin cans than joshua who's still very young and has time on his side. the likes of audley and lewis had to crack on because of limited time, joshua wouldnt and dont think people would be too harsh on a 22 year taking his time abit

Surely Lennox didn't have limited time? I thought he turned pro at 23 or whatever? Audley, agreed.

i wasnt sure what age he turned pro, i presumed it was abit later because of his long amateur career. but yeah my point was more on the fighters turning pro late and have to crack on, like audley

by Rowley Mon 13 Aug 2012, 12:50 pm

Think Lennox said he went pro at 26 yesterday but I could be wrong, am sure Gordy will be along soon to confirm the exact age.

by bellchees Mon 13 Aug 2012, 1:27 pm

I wouldnt mind seeing him stay amateur for the world championships next year as another year of competitive fights will do him more good than knocking over a few cab drivers which is all that will happen if he turns pro now. The offers won't be as good unless he wins gold at the world championships but the experience is what he needs after such a short amateur career.

by J.Benson II Mon 13 Aug 2012, 1:46 pm

Should turn pro now. He'll learn nothing new if he stays amateur and has already achieved the pinnacle of the sport.

by sittingringside Mon 13 Aug 2012, 2:42 pm

From what I can see there's a lot to like about Joshua, and not that much to dislike. Physique, athleticism and temperament all seem to be there, and to have learned so much in 4 years it's fair to assume that there is a serious work ethic there as well. I don't think fighting weaker opponents as a pro will do him any harm as long as he is prepared to fight regularly for at least the first couple of years.

by Rowley Mon 13 Aug 2012, 2:50 pm

Thing is for me whenever he turns over he will end up fighting taxi drivers and journeymen as it is the nature of the beast. My own view is it will be a damned sight more frustrating and more of a step down if he does it in four years after fighting the best amateurs in the world

by bellchees Mon 13 Aug 2012, 3:30 pm

4 years is way too long, he won't wait around for the next olympics but the Worlds next year is a good opportunity for him. It's not like he blew everyone away at the olympics his fights were very competitive and he still has a lot too learn. Another year in the amateurs against good competition for me is worth taking for him as he has time on his side.

by Gordy Mon 13 Aug 2012, 3:44 pm

There are 2 ways of looking at it. If he goes pro now he will earn more money and get hyped up massively. The heavyweight division is the worst around at the moment so Joshua might think to himself, you know what I can become world champion. BUT, He could also be tempted to do what guys like Price and Harrison have done which is to just fight a bunch of nobodies. The media will hype him up and con people into thinking he is great even though he just takes on poor opposition. Real boxing fans can spot this but there are countless amonts who will believe everything the media say. He needs to look at guys like Khan and Harrison who went pro but did not succeed and be aware of the risks.

The other argument is that he could stay amateur and be very successful but he might not earn as much money. Once you go pro there is no going back to the amateurs so its a big decision. I think they should let pro's box in the Olympics to avoid this problem. We want to see the best boxers in the Olympics. Hopefully for Rio they will allow pro's in and that might make Joshua more tempted to go pro now and he can defend his gold medal in Rio.Joshua needs to keep level headed people around him so he does not get carried away like Harrison did and start believing his own hype. He is still young and the heavyweight division is so bad that I think he would have a good chance of becoming champion if he works hard and keeps focusing. If someone like Lennox Lewis or Mike Tyson were still around as champion I would say stay in the amateurs because he woud not have a chance against them but the way the division is now he has a much better opportunity to become champion.

by azania Mon 13 Aug 2012, 3:48 pm

Gordy wrote:There are 2 ways of looking at it. If he goes pro now he will earn more money and get hyped up massively. The heavyweight division is the worst around at the moment so Joshua might think to himself, you know what I can become world champion. BUT, He could also be tempted to do what guys like Price and Harrison have done which is to just fight a bunch of nobodies. The media will hype him up and con people into thinking he is great even though he just takes on poor opposition. Real boxing fans can spot this but there are countless amonts who will believe everything the media say. He needs to look at guys like Khan and Harrison who went pro but did not succeed and be aware of the risks.

The other argument is that he could stay amateur and be very successful but he might not earn as much money. Once you go pro there is no going back to the amateurs so its a big decision. I think they should let pro's box in the Olympics to avoid this problem. We want to see the best boxers in the Olympics. Hopefully for Rio they will allow pro's in and that might make Joshua more tempted to go pro now and he can defend his gold medal in Rio.Joshua needs to keep level headed people around him so he does not get carried away like Harrison did and start believing his own hype. He is still young and the heavyweight division is so bad that I think he would have a good chance of becoming champion if he works hard and keeps focusing. If someone like Lennox Lewis or Mike Tyson were still around as champion I would say stay in the amateurs because he woud not have a chance against them but the way the division is now he has a much better opportunity to become champion.

A double world champion who has earned millions and a former euro champ and world title challenger who also has earned millions.

Pro boxing is about making as much money as possible.

Even if Lennox were around Josh would still turn pro and believe he could beat Lewis. Lets face it, all he had to do is land a punch. 2 average fighters did that and turned his lights out.

by sittingringside Mon 13 Aug 2012, 4:15 pm

Gordy wrote:There are 2 ways of looking at it. If he goes pro now he will earn more money and get hyped up massively. The heavyweight division is the worst around at the moment so Joshua might think to himself, you know what I can become world champion. BUT, He could also be tempted to do what guys like Price and Harrison have done which is to just fight a bunch of nobodies. The media will hype him up and con people into thinking he is great even though he just takes on poor opposition. Real boxing fans can spot this but there are countless amonts who will believe everything the media say. He needs to look at guys like Khan and Harrison who went pro but did not succeed and be aware of the risks.

The other argument is that he could stay amateur and be very successful but he might not earn as much money. Once you go pro there is no going back to the amateurs so its a big decision. I think they should let pro's box in the Olympics to avoid this problem. We want to see the best boxers in the Olympics. Hopefully for Rio they will allow pro's in and that might make Joshua more tempted to go pro now and he can defend his gold medal in Rio.Joshua needs to keep level headed people around him so he does not get carried away like Harrison did and start believing his own hype. He is still young and the heavyweight division is so bad that I think he would have a good chance of becoming champion if he works hard and keeps focusing. If someone like Lennox Lewis or Mike Tyson were still around as champion I would say stay in the amateurs because he woud not have a chance against them but the way the division is now he has a much better opportunity to become champion.

I must say, I am confused as to how Khan is a failed pro by any stretch of the imagination. I think that the Harrison example is valid in that he failed to win a world title after significant investment in his career by the BBC, as well as public support following his olympic success.

by AlexHuckerby Mon 13 Aug 2012, 4:23 pm

Lennox turned pro at 27.

by AlexHuckerby Mon 13 Aug 2012, 4:28 pm

Sittingringside - Gordy is a WUM who will have you believe any currently active boxer is a hype job, however any boxer from the 90's are the greatest ever.

by **88Chris05** Mon 13 Aug 2012, 4:30 pm

Didn't think he was that old, Alex? Couldn't have been older than twenty-four when he had his first fight, surely? He was still the right side of thirty when McCall toppled him, I believe.

by sittingringside Mon 13 Aug 2012, 4:31 pm

29 circa the McCall fight I believe

by AlexHuckerby Mon 13 Aug 2012, 4:36 pm

May have been 25, I'm sure Lennox said 27 yesterday though.

by Gordy Mon 13 Aug 2012, 4:41 pm

Lennox Lewis was 24 when he turned pro.

by AlexHuckerby Mon 13 Aug 2012, 4:45 pm

Ha, I won't argue with Gordy about statistics on Lewis.

by **88Chris05** Mon 13 Aug 2012, 4:52 pm

You're a wise man, Alex! I expect Gordy could also tell us what shorts, socks and boots Lennox wore on his professional debut, too.

by Gordy Mon 13 Aug 2012, 4:56 pm

What people should remember about Joshua is that he didnt dominate his fights. Most of them he only won by a point or two. He did not knock out his opponents or beat them easily. The amateurs is easier than the pro's so even though this is a terrible period for heavyweights the chances are the pro's are still going to be harder to beat than the amateurs. Fights are longer, the scoring is different and there is no protective headgear. If Joshua is only beating amateurs narrowly then there is a good chance he will not beat the pros. Look at Audley Harrison who won a gold medal and was terrible as a pro. When Lennox Lewis won his gold medal he was knocking guys out not just winning by a point or two.

by **hampo17** Mon 13 Aug 2012, 5:00 pm

How long had Lewis been boxing when he won his gold Gordy? Can you name me another boxer who has been boxing for just FOUR years before winning Olympic gold?

Amatuer boxing is all about scoring points and that's what Joshua did, who cares if you win be 1 point or 10? I'd say every guy he faced at the Olympics would beat most of the guys Fury and Price have fought, I'm sure if Joshua turns pro, with the right coaching and management he'll have a very good career.

by Rowley Mon 13 Aug 2012, 5:02 pm

Got to agree Hampo, whatever the margins winning an Olympic Gold medal within four years of taking up the sport is an extraordinary achievement. Truth is as well Joshua has managed something Lennox did not, namely winning the olympic gold at his first attempt.

by fearlessBamber Mon 13 Aug 2012, 5:45 pm

rowley wrote:Got to agree Hampo, whatever the margins winning an Olympic Gold medal within four years of taking up the sport is an extraordinary achievement. Truth is as well Joshua has managed something Lennox did not, namely winning the olympic gold at his first attempt.

Gordy will reply wrote:What people should remember is that experts who have studied boxing for years consider the heavyweight division to the worst around at the moment - so the amateurs are probably even worse. When Lewis won his gold medal he had to beat fighters like Bowe who would clean up today. Unfortunately the public are gullible and have not watched Lennox's fights so will be fooled by the hype machine and will believe Joshua can be the next Lennox Lewis.

by Rowley Mon 13 Aug 2012, 5:50 pm

So easy to forget some things Bamber. In my defence though the accusation I have not watched Lewis fights is one I have to defend myself against I watched his first fights with Rahman and McCall only the other day.

by Gordy Mon 13 Aug 2012, 6:02 pm

fearlessBamber wrote:
rowley wrote:Got to agree Hampo, whatever the margins winning an Olympic Gold medal within four years of taking up the sport is an extraordinary achievement. Truth is as well Joshua has managed something Lennox did not, namely winning the olympic gold at his first attempt.

Gordy will reply wrote:What people should remember is that experts who have studied boxing for years consider the heavyweight division to the worst around at the moment - so the amateurs are probably even worse. When Lewis won his gold medal he had to beat fighters like Bowe who would clean up today. Unfortunately the public are gullible and have not watched Lennox's fights so will be fooled by the hype machine and will believe Joshua can be the next Lennox Lewis.

This is true, there is alot of negativity about Lewis on here and alot of people dont seem to know much about his career or watched him in action. I hope Joshua does well, he seems like a good guy but people have to be realistic and know that he will not become the next Lennox Lewis just becaust that is how he is being built up. Sadly he will probably be more like Audley Harrison who also won gold but found the pro's too hard. What Joshua has in his favour are the current heavyweight champion is poor and the division is at an all time low and he can probably make good money being pro. What he has against him is that the pros are better than the amateurs, fights are longer and harder, he has no protective headgear. If you watched him in the Olympics you will know that nearly all his fights were very close. He won in the amateurs but it will be tougher in the pros so because he was only winning his fights by one or two points the chances are he will not in the pros. Lewis when he won was knocking guys out so you could tell he would have no trouble against the pros.

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