England v South Africa, Lords, 3rd Test Thread

[eirebilly]

First topic message reminder :

Yeah, the fielding certainly has left alot to be desired. Still the chances are being created and things must surely stick soon.

[trebellbobaggins]

Now watch England get a thrashing in India. Going to be a while before we do well in tests again.

Can they compete against SA in the odi series? I think so but SA are so good.

[Liam]

to come to England and play this well is pretty impressive. To win 2-0 really reflects how good this south african side really is. Well played to Matt Prior and particularly Philander

[liverbnz]

Well that's that then. Congrats to South Africa. Deserved winners and worthy of their world number 1 spot.

Plenty of questions for England.

[Duty281]

No. Game over. Well done South Africa. England have saved some face with the fight they gave but our reign at No.1 is over after a year. I'm sure we'll be back very soon. Expecting Strauss' retirement now.

[alfie]

Ah...

That must be it

Well played Matt Prior

Was a great chase ...but Finn goes first ball ...

Well done South Africa ...but England fought that all the way...

Praise all round for an outstanding Test Match

[ShahenshahG]

Great stuff Prior, unfortunate but well done for daring

[GSC]

Congrats to SA. Ultimately the best team throughout this series.

Few tough decisions coming for England. Still a very good team, but some deadweight needs jettisoning.

[Mike Selig]

And a perfect outswinger to Finn first up.

Well done SA, thoroughly deserved the series win, although 2-0 flatters them.

Well done England on a wonderful fightback today, and playing their part in a fantastic test match.

[eirebilly]

Well done SA. Much prefer going down fighting like this than whimpering away.

Philander now has 63 wickets in 10 matches, thats incredible

[mystiroakey]

best lost test i can remember!!

[trebellbobaggins]

Only a little more application at the top could have won that.

England need to find a new opener. Where though?

[mystiroakey]

taylor trebbs.

bairstow is also a dead cert for no 5/6

[JDizzle]

Nice to see the players actually talking to each other during the handshakes and conversing, shows the mutual respect between the sides. It has been a really, really good Test series! Lived up to the hype.

[kemet]

Well played to England. The English did well to give South Africa a huge fright. From England's perspective, the match turned on that Swann run out.

So the tenth wicket gives Philander a five-fer. Apropos I guess.

[trebellbobaggins]

Yep bairstow has real promise.

And Taylor given time could be great. Agreed.

[VTR]

Trott to open for me with Bell back at 3. KP back in if possible, young players at 5 and 6, Bairstow obviously one of those for now.

[eirebilly]

What a shame its over, that was one of the best test matches i have seen, even if England lost.

[Duty281]

Can I just say as well, this game has been a victory not only for South Africa, but for Test Cricket as well. Today's drama alone has had more in it than a full season of IPL rubbish.

[eirebilly]

Trott to open for me with Bell back at 3. KP back in if possible, young players at 5 and 6, Bairstow obviously one of those for now.

I really dont want Trott moved to opener, he is up there as the best #3 now, no need to change that.

[trebellbobaggins]

Yes true that.

Do folk think KP should come back?

If he hasn't any loyalty to his side, do they want tha influence in the team?

[alfie]

Now watch England get a thrashing in India. Going to be a while before we do well in tests again.

Can they compete against SA in the odi series? I think so but SA are so good.

No , trebs ...you don't have to start reversing for India yet...after seeing the way England fought that out I have no doubt they can beat anyone ...India will be a tough tour but there is no reason to fear them

Sort out a couple of issues and the train will be rolling smoothly again...believe !

[ShahenshahG]

fantastic test cricket all year and last year? I wonder why its picked up - it used to be that we'd get one series a year but there have been a fair amount of decent tests

[eirebilly]

Yes true that.

Do folk think KP should come back?

If he hasn't any loyalty to his side, do they want tha influence in the team?

I am still really in 2 minds about that. Great batsman but just not sure he fits into the teams dynamics anymore and am afraid that too much damage has been done.

[VTR]

Trott to open for me with Bell back at 3. KP back in if possible, young players at 5 and 6, Bairstow obviously one of those for now.

I really dont want Trott moved to opener, he is up there as the best #3 now, no need to change that.

But he comes in after Strauss. There's a name for that: opening the batting

[alfie]

Can I just say as well, this game has been a victory not only for South Africa, but for Test Cricket as well. Today's drama alone has had more in it than a full season of IPL rubbish.

[Duty281]

1st Test Team v India on 15th November:

Cook (C), Trott, Bell, KP, Bairstow, Prior, Bresnan, Broad, Swann, Anderson and Onions.

Strauss has had a wonderful career and is a Treble Ashes Winner and will be remembered for leading his country to victory in Australia to end 24 years of hurt. Now is the time to gracefully retire and let Cook take the team forward in a new direction and I boldly predict we'll be back in the No.1 Test spot by January 2014.

[Liam]

Baistow has stepped up to the plate, he has to stay for India. Taylor is excellent against spin and on flat wickets I think he could really step up to the mark, so I don't see where KP get's in anyway, despite his immense talent. Just who comes in at opener for Strauss, like to see Root, good time to blood new youngsters if you ask me.

[eirebilly]

Trott to open for me with Bell back at 3. KP back in if possible, young players at 5 and 6, Bairstow obviously one of those for now.

I really dont want Trott moved to opener, he is up there as the best #3 now, no need to change that.

But he comes in after Strauss. There's a name for that: opening the batting

VTR you tart

[Liam]

1st Test Team v India on 15th November:

Cook (C), Trott, Bell, KP, Bairstow, Prior, Bresnan, Broad, Swann, Anderson and Onions.

Strauss has had a wonderful career and is a Treble Ashes Winner and will be remembered for leading his country to victory in Australia to end 24 years of hurt. Now is the time to gracefully retire and let Cook take the team forward in a new direction and I boldly predict we'll be back in the No.1 Test spot by January 2014.

Why would you leave out Finn?

[kemet]

Can I just say as well, this game has been a victory not only for South Africa, but for Test Cricket as well. Today's drama alone has had more in it than a full season of IPL rubbish.

Agreed. Test cricket is still the ultimate for me and worth risking the wrath of the boss for!

[Duty281]

1st Test Team v India on 15th November:

Cook (C), Trott, Bell, KP, Bairstow, Prior, Bresnan, Broad, Swann, Anderson and Onions.

Strauss has had a wonderful career and is a Treble Ashes Winner and will be remembered for leading his country to victory in Australia to end 24 years of hurt. Now is the time to gracefully retire and let Cook take the team forward in a new direction and I boldly predict we'll be back in the No.1 Test spot by January 2014.

Why would you leave out Finn?

I think Onions, who is in tremendous form, would be better suited to the wickets out there than Finn.

[alfie]

You're all wrong.

Strauss will lead the team to India , as he should.

But I am weary of selection stuff and am , for the moment , just happy to have seen a great Test Match.

Well done SA , congrats and goodnight all...

[Liam]

1st Test Team v India on 15th November:

Cook (C), Trott, Bell, KP, Bairstow, Prior, Bresnan, Broad, Swann, Anderson and Onions.

Strauss has had a wonderful career and is a Treble Ashes Winner and will be remembered for leading his country to victory in Australia to end 24 years of hurt. Now is the time to gracefully retire and let Cook take the team forward in a new direction and I boldly predict we'll be back in the No.1 Test spot by January 2014.

Why would you leave out Finn?

I think Onions, who is in tremendous form, would be better suited to the wickets out there than Finn.

I would agree, but I think Finn has shown he has that X factor which against the best batsmen on flat surfaces will be needed. He keeps his place ahead of Bresnan, Broad and Swann have shown they can play so no need for another bowling all rounder.

[Mike Selig]

Taylor looks compact enough and plays the ball late so certainly seems technically able to open, but hasn't ever really batted there apart from a couple of times in the Lions. Is he ready for it mentally? More generally I am a bit concerned about whether he has the mental edge he needs at test level, a lot of this is based on appearances, but he seems so apologetic at the wicket.

Bairstow has surely made himself undroppable with his batting and fielding (he is an outstanding fielder) in this test.

I am fairly undecided on Strauss: part of me says that's now 4 disappointing series England have had, 3 of which Strauss has done very little in, and it may be time for a change; the other half says India is a tough place to blood a new captain and a new opener, Strauss has done well in India in the past and with time away to work on his game could come back stronger. I think the man concerned probably knows better than anyone, and I suspect he'll discuss the issues with Flower. I doubt he'll be pushed, it will be a joint decision.

From the bowling perspective Finn was very impressive in the 2nd dig, after being a bit all over the place before that during the series.

Anderson had a rare off day. He bowled very well in the first innings but too short in the 2nd innings and was clearly unhappy.

Swann I thought bowled well, at times very well, without any luck, and on another day could have had 4 or 5 wickets. In any case, 2 wickets and an eco rate of 2 will do the job just fine in India.

Broad is a worry, not so much his stats as the way he's bowling. I'm not sure Onions is the 2nd coming some people proclaim (as they did with Finn when he wasn't in the team - it's well known you're always a better player with the fans when you're not playing), and would be very hesitant to go in with a tail with Anderson, Finn and Onions. Bresnan could be very handy as 3rd seamer in India, keeping things tight and finding reverse swing, if Broad doesn't get his nip back.

What goes of Tremlett BTW?

[Galted]

Fantastic test, good thing I got a few cans in to help me over the finish line. Has helped massively to quell Olympics withdrawal symptons.

[Gerry SA]

So proud to be South African today!

Finally we've climbed the top of the tree.

Philander has been unreal and deserved his 5fer today.

[ShahenshahG]

Taylor looks compact enough and plays the ball late so certainly seems technically able to open, but hasn't ever really batted there apart from a couple of times in the Lions. Is he ready for it mentally? More generally I am a bit concerned about whether he has the mental edge he needs at test level, a lot of this is based on appearances, but he seems so apologetic at the wicket.

Bairstow has surely made himself undroppable with his batting and fielding (he is an outstanding fielder) in this test.

I am fairly undecided on Strauss: part of me says that's now 4 disappointing series England have had, 3 of which Strauss has done very little in, and it may be time for a change; the other half says India is a tough place to blood a new captain and a new opener, Strauss has done well in India in the past and with time away to work on his game could come back stronger. I think the man concerned probably knows better than anyone, and I suspect he'll discuss the issues with Flower. I doubt he'll be pushed, it will be a joint decision.

From the bowling perspective Finn was very impressive in the 2nd dig, after being a bit all over the place before that during the series.

Anderson had a rare off day. He bowled very well in the first innings but too short in the 2nd innings and was clearly unhappy.

Swann I thought bowled well, at times very well, without any luck, and on another day could have had 4 or 5 wickets. In any case, 2 wickets and an eco rate of 2 will do the job just fine in India.

Broad is a worry, not so much his stats as the way he's bowling. I'm not sure Onions is the 2nd coming some people proclaim (as they did with Finn when he wasn't in the team - it's well known you're always a better player with the fans when you're not playing), and would be very hesitant to go in with a tail with Anderson, Finn and Onions. Bresnan could be very handy as 3rd seamer in India, keeping things tight and finding reverse swing, if Broad doesn't get his nip back.

What goes of Tremlett BTW?

I get the feeling Broad will be very useful in india with the reverse swing but I agree he would be much more dangerous with his usually pace.

[msp83]

Congratulations South Africa, tne Number One Test side in the world!!. Deserved winners of the series, demolished England in the first match, and dominated the better part of the 2nd test only to be ripped apart by Kevin Pietersen who restored some kind of parity for England, and then played the overall better game in the third that they won in the end with a comfortabl margin, although England had their hopes alive for a lot more time than what was expected by many. South Africa's determination has been the standout feature, they almost always took the big moments and fought back from dificult corners.

[msp83]

All the 11 players who took field for South Africa in the series contributed at different points in the series.
Smith made consistent runs at the top in the first 2 tests, and even here got a few to get the side going and saw through the new ball in the 2nd innings. His captaincy too was pretty good.
Petersen came back from a duck in the first test to post his highest test score in the 2nd test, withstanding both the new balls during that fine innings.
Hashim Amla added another massive series to his CV, Stylish and pugnacious at the same time. His 121 in the 2nd innings here embodied all the determination and class of the man. There is nothing more to talk about the 311, he just didn't allow England any way whatsoever to pass through.
Jacques Kallis played his part with the bat in the first match with a big ton, and even here in the 2nd innings just when England was building some momentum played a few shots to get SA back in control. Did his bit with the ball as well, often getting important wickets, although they didn't come in a bunch. Anyone who saw his catch of Steyn to get Trott can do nothing but wonder at the man's fitness and ability at this age!.
Ab de Villiers had to take up the extra responsibility of wicket keeping, and he did a pretty decent job behind the wickets. Didn't produce a typical big innings, but scored over 40 in 3 out of the 4 times he batted.
Jacques Rudolph made a significant 69 standing in for the regular opener Petersen in the 2nd innings of the 2nd test to maintain South Africa's advantage.
This series has been a good come back series for JP Duminy, and I think he has done enough to push Rudolph out if South Africa choose to go for a regular keeper at 7. Was effective with the bat, often batting with the lower order, and played a couple of critical innings in the 2nd and 3rd test. Also chipped in with a few overs and even a couple of wickets as well.
Vernon Philander came to England on the back of a steller start to his test career, becoming the fastest to 50 wickets in the last 100 years. Philander didn't have such out of the world success in the series till the very last moment, but even then he kept things real tight and chipped in with important wickets. When it mattered the most, when the series win was on the line, he outperformed the world's best all-rounder with both bat and ball to stand up for his country.
Dale Steyn was back to his best after a bit of a dip by his standards, and although he didn't take the new ball did his job just fine. Found life even on rather lifeless tracks. Also contributed important lower order runs or even timely resistance with the bat.
Morne Morkel was Morne Morkel, bouncy, pacy,, dangerous and a bit inconsistent. Was given the new ball particularly targeting the England captain, and he didn't disappoint. Again contributed important lower order runs.
The spin battle between Graeme Swann and Imran Tahir was considered an area of asured English advantage before the series started, but at the end of it, Tahir, not most effective of South Africa's bowlers outbowled Swann. Bowled well when the conditions helped him.

[Biltong]

Well done to England as well, this was a tremendous test series, this must be one of the most tense last days of cricket I have witnessed (ok, I only saw the last 2 hours)

Congrats to my team, it was a well deserved victory, you just got to admire Hashim Amla, when asked about his thoughts about being number 1 bastman in ODI's and number 2 in test cricket, he answered by saying, "well I am not even the second best batsman in my team"

Wonderful person and proud he is a South African.

[FerN]

Nervous moments there for SA. Well played England, your guys didn't give up without a fight

[msp83]

Nice response that is from Hashim!.

[mystiroakey]

"well I am not even the second best batsman in my team"

ermmm well I think he is...

[msp83]

England had to use 14 players in the series.
Cook had one good contribution and then not much.
Strauss was way below average as batsman, and his previously good man management skills didn't come to the fore to save the day with the KP Saga, and although he has now the catching record for an English outfielder, he put a few down as well.
Trott got a few starts, got to 50 a couple of times and then didn't go on as he used to do earlier.
Pietersen played one of his best test innings in the 2nd test to restore parity and showed for the first time in the series that South Africa can not only be challenged but they can even be dominated. Got 4 wickets as well to almost singlehandedly take the match to a fine finish.
Bell hasn't scored a test ton for the last one year, and although he got a few starts like Trott did, he also failed to convert them into match winning tons.
Ravi Bopara had a disappointing first test, and then pulled out of the rest of the series with some personal issues. With Bairstow and Taylor stepping in well, it will be dificult for him to get another chance soon.
Prior was pretty good behind the stumps and made very good contributions with the bat as well.
Bresnan hasn't done much with the bat or ball in the first 2 matches, and was rightly dropped for Finn.
Broad hasn't been at his best with the ball throughout the series. The pace was down and he didn't hit the right length with the new ball most of the times. Could still find enough strength and inspiration to get a few wickets, but the consistency has been missing. His batting didn't click till the very last innings.
Graeme Swann had passages where he looked like the champion bowler that he is. He bowled without much luck, and he has every reason to be disappointed with his overall output for the series. Dropping him for the 2nd test was an idiotic decision, but Swann was some way below his best.
Anderson too didn't make his customary impact with the new ball throughout the series. seemed a bit down on pace and wasn't hitting the perfect length as consistently as he used to do.
James Taylor showed good temprament in his debut innings, one for the future for sure.
Steven Finn didn't do anything special in the first opportunity he got in the series, but showed what he could do with that extra yard of pace in the 3rd test, one with the X factor about him, helped turn SA's momentum with a fine spel. Real fast bowlers have made an impact in India, and he has a good ODI record there, so I would expect him to be there in the 11 in the first test against India.
Jonny Bairstow would not have got an opportunity so soon after his dificult beginning against the West Indies but for the KP saga and Bopara's problems. But his performance in the match was terrific, and he has made a strong case for an extended run at 6.

[DouglasJardinesbox]

I went along to the match today. I knew SA would win, but I am so glad I did. There was a lull at the start, a carnival atmopsphere in the middle, then it got very tense and exciting. Sport at it's best. I stayed for the presentation to applaud both teams. Prior's two 'lives' really infised the crowd.

We talk about how much better the SA's were, but in all reallity, 2 sessions lost at Headingly, an two dropped catches / 2 crazy run-outs today were the difference. Oh, and VP. He's a true great in the making.

I was critical of the JB selection, but that showed how little I know about this great game. Well, I'm Scottish, what do you expect.

Bring on India, KP or not. Strauss or not. Can't wait. My faith has been restored.

[Duty281]

The difference between South Africa and England was Amla. It was his fantastic treble ton that took the game from England in the 1st Test, and it was his century in the 2nd innings of the 3rd Test that took the game away from England once more.

[mystiroakey]

If we didnt need the win today we wouldnt have gone for it. But we did and it was 100% the correct decision. it also gave us alot more hope and pride,,

The frist test was the difference and then from that point on SA strangled us..

SA are one top side- And will be big favs v Oz.

I will also be very positive v india ..

I also admit to being way to critical of baurstow and i have remebered that when it comes to taylor!!

they are both good enough and I hope they both get to play v India

[Liam]

Interesting stat by Botham on twitter, England's 9 dropped catches cost us 600 runs!

[mystiroakey]

Ifs and buts!

[Galted]

Don't think there was one outstanding player who won the series for SA, difference was marginal, there always seemed to be a Saffer or five battling that little bit more in each session. The first test looks like a rout but wasn't too far from a draw. SA deservedly no 1 but Eng don't deserve the rubbish posted about them on this forum, have been massively competitive all through despite some players battling for form and facing a team superbly well drilled & rehearsed for every situation.

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