Top 3 Scrum-halves in world rugby

Pick 3...

As I have said on another thread, Australia have all the best backs, Will Genia is pure class in a glass, Ruan Piennar just oozes class and he can kick a good pen and conversion, I then picked Mike Phillips because I am Welsh and he is the best of the "different" type of scrum half if you know what I mean.

Genia is world class...not so sure about the rest of the Aussies

I really like Pienaar, but his lack of selection for SA means I have gone with A.Smith.

Genia despite his recent form, Smith because of his, then Parra. Youngs and Care and Pienaar and Peel up there

Piri Weepu might be one of the best half backs (scrum half) in World rugby , but he wouldnt be one of the best half backs in New Zealand rugby.

aucklandlaurie wrote:
Piri Weepu might be one of the best half backs (scrum half) in World rugby , but he wouldnt be one of the best half backs in New Zealand rugby.

Well...not quite true..he'd be about fifth...
Smith, Kerr Barlow, perenara, ellis then the pie man.

Hehe.. Piris the opposite to Lemon and Paeroa.

"World famous in New Zealand".

LordDowlais wrote:I then picked Mike Phillips because I am Welsh

I guess it's one way of choosing. I imagine the other four picked him with the same reasoning. Still, at least you're honest

On top form, Phillips can be influential on a game and probably is in the top 3. He is likely to be the Lions SH for the second time next year aswell.

Piri Weepu was peerless at the RWC. All composure and accuracy. Prior to the terrible injury he sustained just 12 months prior he was the best 9 in the world and would make a top 10 rating as a fly half. The AB selectors know his ability and his personality and they keep him in the team now, even in his post-RWC rehab because they know just how tallented he is. Now just ahead of him is an incredible enigma of Aaron Smith. He has stepped onto the world stage like he own it already. Completely out-classed Genia in two outings on his first attempts as he did against Ireland already, and he kept the experienced Weepu on the bench until the dying seconds. This guy is a serious legend in the making.

aucklandlaurie wrote:
Piri Weepu might be one of the best half backs (scrum half) in World rugby , but he wouldnt be one of the best half backs in New Zealand rugby.

A kiwi was saying to me on Saturday poor ole Weepu's simply in the side to lead the haka... though I disagreed and said I think he's a pretty good scrumie

Weepu is pies (well he ate all the pies). Tawera Kerr-Barlow and TJ Perenara are streets ahead of him and he was only picked because of his experience - very tough on Ellis who steadied the ship for the AB's in the RWC final when he came on and was playing far better that Weepu in the Super 15.

Not brilliant or particualy exciting, but does the basics right and quite a staunch defender I reckon

Weepu is a good player but his form has looked poor for a while

At his best Weepu is very good. But he has never been VERY GOOD and I never thought that he could be great.
Smith and Perenara I reckon could be VERY GOOD soon and the one that eventually has regular game time for the ABs could become great.
Crikey sound a bit like a POM overrating a young player.
Better stop here.

LordDowlais wrote:As I have said on another thread, Australia have all the best backs, Will Genia is pure class in a glass, Ruan Piennar just oozes class and he can kick a good pen and conversion, I then picked Mike Phillips because I am Welsh and he is the best of the "different" type of scrum half if you know what I mean.

I do agree with Genia and Piennar being the best 2 in the world.

But then i would have Morgan Para over Mike Phillips any day.

And i am English.

Piri couldnt even make the Auckland team today..


http://www.itmcup.co.nz/itmCupNews/20271/Auckland-named-for-Canterbury

Pretty tight really. I'd have Youngs ahead of Phillips though. Agree about Weepu's composure but he made a bad judgment call in taking the kicks in the final when he had tweaked his groin. Should have given Cruden the kicks.

Genia the number 1 comfortably. Give Smith a year or two and hopefully he'll challenge. So excited to have him in the ABs.

I rate the two French halfbacks too. Pienaar needs tests to be considered for mine.

Genia out on his own despite a bad spell.

I'd have Smith (seriously good season) & Ben Youngs behind and Hougaard, Parra etc following up.

I went for,Genia, who else, he is the best SH in the world ATM.

Parra, the little general

Phillips, very good player although lots of people dislike him for some aspect of his game.

drsambo1928 wrote:I went for,Genia, who else, he is the best SH in the world ATM.

Have you not watching the 4N so far? Genia is well off form. He looks to be carry too much weight. His decision making has gone wrong, and he missed two crucial tackles in two games. He now prefer just to kick the ball away too much.

Still the best

anotherworldofpain wrote:Piri Weepu was peerless at the RWC. All composure and accuracy. Prior to the terrible injury he sustained just 12 months prior he was the best 9 in the world and would make a top 10 rating as a fly half. The AB selectors know his ability and his personality and they keep him in the team now, even in his post-RWC rehab because they know just how tallented he is. Now just ahead of him is an incredible enigma of Aaron Smith. He has stepped onto the world stage like he own it already. Completely out-classed Genia in two outings on his first attempts as he did against Ireland already, and he kept the experienced Weepu on the bench until the dying seconds. This guy is a serious legend in the making.

Weepu was never best in the world and always looked the weak link in class All Black teams. I completely agree with you on Aaron Smith though. Best NZ no.9 since Byron Kelleher.

Morgan,
Marsall was a better 9 for the AB's than Kelleher. Thats why he tended to get picked more often. NH comments re 'best players' tend to be based on the players form or ones preference while playing in the NH club scene...two different things.

anotherworldofpain wrote:

drsambo1928 wrote:I went for,Genia, who else, he is the best SH in the world ATM.

Have you not watching the 4N so far? Genia is well off form. He looks to be carry too much weight. His decision making has gone wrong, and he missed two crucial tackles in two games. He now prefer just to kick the ball away too much.

The 4N so far for Genia is 2 games against a dominant forward pack. Also he was getting criticised by the commentators for not kicking enough in the last test.

Taylorman wrote:Morgan,
Marsall was a better 9 for the AB's than Kelleher. Thats why he tended to get picked more often. NH comments re 'best players' tend to be based on the players form or ones preference while playing in the NH club scene...two different things.

When they were both playing for the All Blacks Kelleher was better IMO. Marshal is still the most capped scrum-half isn't he?

They both had surprising amounts of caps. A bit like Mealamu and Hore. Their position and the fact they were two different players often meant they were interchanged for different reasons.

I'd like to see Smith stay out on the park the whole match. Weepu is there for cover and the haka but really Smith's pass is so good you want that at the end of the game when legs are tired. Even Kelleher didn't provide quick enough ball. You have to go back to Bachop for that kind of quick service and even he would get shown up by Smith. It's such a breath of fresh air because we've been so poor comparatively for so long in this area. We used to have real problems at 10 and 9 and now we seem set up in this area for years to come.

Typo

I reflect On the recent RWC most here I guess. The worlds best perform the best on the greatest stage. Therefor it was clear cut that Phillips was the standout scrum half, with Genia and Weepu close behind.

Phillips influence on Wales world cup was massive, similarly his impact as a British lion was also immense.

He is my number one at the moment.

Though players like Aaron Smith, Tavis Knoyle and Rhys Webb are the stars of the future.

Agree, NZ had some average players at no.9 for the past few years, but Aaron Smith looks like he could be world class. Could say the same for Cruden, I think when he steps up teams are going to be looking to smash his brittle body thus taking him out of the game.

Morgannwg wrote:Agree, NZ had some average players at no.9 for the past few years, but Aaron Smith looks like he could be world class. Could say the same for Cruden, I think when he steps up teams are going to be looking to smash his brittle body thus taking him out of the game.

Crudens made of fairly tough stuff morgan. The same could be said about Goosen who looks very slight to me. I think escalating him any earlier than bench on the AI's would be detrimental to his career, especially since Meyer doesn't appear to know how to build the correct gameplan around him. Goosen will get tarred with thesame brush...and likely injured.

Morg, in general that tactic doesn't work unless his tackling technique is flawed or he does a Wilko and tries to do his backrow's tackling. If he can play against the likes of the Bulls at S15, what more can be thrown at him?

I also feel Cruden is no doubt made of tough stuff but it dosent matter how tough you are if 19 stone fowards are constantley running at you for sheer pleasure, no fly half can take that for a full match, concussions, shoulder injuries and general knocks come about, some may disagree with this but I mean he kinda does have to be protected.

And he will be as is almost every other 10 on the planet. Otherwise someone in the backrow isn't doing their job properly!

Teams will defientley target him though, i mean look at ROG, any chance the got to have a go at him they took it. A smaller player is like lions trying to attack the youngest wildebeast, they know its the easiest option and when he misses his tackle, they smell blood and dont stop.

There's a difference between being small and not being a good defender though

Im not doubting his defence(although maybe i am) but you cant do a load of tackles on men much bigger then you who arent gonna slow down through a match. I mean he weighs in the low 80 kg area, can you name a low 80 kg players who tackles charging fowards all day long?

You probably can, if so shut me the f**ck up.

drsambo1928 wrote:Im not doubting his defence(although maybe i am) but you cant do a load of tackles on men much bigger then you who arent gonna slow down through a match. I mean he weighs in the low 80 kg area, can you name a low 80 kg players who tackles charging fowards all day long?

You probably can, if so shut me the f**ck up.

To be honest, can't think of many since Gregan...

Riki Flutey was a big tackler, and I believe he weighs in at around 86 KG (just a guess).

Is flutey really though? And even Gregan could take a break from tackling and just stand behind the ruck, cruden, however cant.

I've never seen Cruden have an issue in defence in ITM or Super rugby, not quite sure why he'd suddenly develop one at Int level?!?

I'm not saying Cruden has an issue in defence i'm just saying that he cant make a load of tackles all match long.

drsambo1928 wrote:Is flutey really though? And even Gregan could take a break from tackling and just stand behind the ruck, cruden, however cant.

Yes Flutey was. He stood out in the Heineken Cup to me, him and Waters were an excellent midfield. I remember when Wales played England and he tackled our two big strike runners (Roberts and Powell) all game. I think the last time he played for England, was against Wales in Twickenham in a RWC warm-up; he was strong in the tackle in the game also. What's happened to him? He was a great player.

Whats happened to him, all those tackles took there tool, just joking, i don't know what happened to him.

drsambo1928 wrote:I'm not saying Cruden has an issue in defence i'm just saying that he cant make a load of tackles all match long.

Why would he have to more than any other FH?

Cruden will have been targeted all his career as a possible weak link and he seems to have come through it pretty well.

Agreed he's never going to smash Alberts back in a tackle but as long as your technique is right (which Crudens seems to be) you can take down big men all day.

He would have to do more because the opposition would target him. Obviously the first tackle is crucial, if he brings them down no problem this discourages them but if you are a foward taking it on the crash, who are you gonna run into, Nonu on your left or McCaw on your right, you will always take on Cruden, again I don't doubt his defence, im just saying he cannot make lots of tackles on big men all day long.

Most tackles these days are two person jobs. Cruden goes low, another big bugger goes up top. Simple. He'll drop em-he's no Quadey in D. Not as good as breaking and entering though.

Running at Cruden means a lot of the time you'll find yourself running at McCaw anyway

Fair enough but it wont always be that scripted but you are right about McCaw being there, thus he is protected and he can worry about kicking and getting the backline moving.

Can see your point drs but I just don't think it's as simple as targeting Cruden all game, especially against the AB's who generally have the ball anyway!