ABs with plenty to work on. That's how I like it.
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Biltong
kiakahaaotearoa
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ABs with plenty to work on. That's how I like it.
After the Sydney test, a blowout looked on the cards. Especially with more injuries to the Wallabies' frontline. But instead of a blowout we got a blackout. The frustrating thing was though, it could have been both.
From a psychological point of view, I'm not sure which is worse. Bob Dwyer came out in defence of Robbie Deans. Australia, he said, did well to hold out the ABs. But at the same time, he added, it doesn't do much good to think that the ABs were capable of putting 50 unanswered points on Australia rather than 22.
Deans and his players were quick to admit that the ABs had schooled Australia with a masterclass performance. The truth is the ABs will be disappointed once again their attack failed to click properly. Even more frustrating was that players were in a position to score and didn't. McCaw only had to grab the ball and ground it. If Read backed himself to ground the ball with an outstretched arm, then he should've done a better job. Carter inexplicably chose to throw a wild pass when putting his head down and driving for the line seemed a much better option. Those are examples of three tries that would've got NZ a bonus point and more of a lock on the championship.
That said, any side that can shut out an opposition from scoring in the modern game is doing a lot of things right. The defence of the Wallabies was impressive but so too was the AB defence. It's clear their gameplan is to play the game at pace and find offloads in the tackle all over the park. The accuracy is not matching the pace at the moment and there are far too many errors. Masterclass performance, not by a long shot.
Argentina will be disappointed they face NZ first at home rather than Australia. The week off may be a good thing for recharging their energy levels but you get the feeling with the momentum they created at home they would love to have a crack this weekend. What will the AB tactics be against Argentina? NZ lose SBW but gain Conrad Smith and Woodcock. Smith in particular is a welcome addition. Nonu will be back in his favoured position at 12 and Smith will be able to distribute ball to the back three a little better. NZ need to be mindful of SA the following week at home. That is a must win and will all but shut the gate on the championship, particularly if NZ get a bonus point against Argentina in Wellington.
I think it's a good moment to tweak the team a little. Cruden could come on for Carter and Carter move to the bench. I think Cruden could be more effective at opening up space against a smothering Argentinian defence. I don't think it'll happen but I'd like to see Savea come on for Gear. The more rugby this boy gets at the top level the better. Argentina is a good game to introduce him. There shouldn't be that many changes in the forwards because the ABs need a solid platform to get their backs some space. But if NZ do build a lead, then Hansen should clear the bench in anticipation of SA, even if it comes at the expense of continuity. Argentina have showed that they are not a side to be underestimated but they are playing in NZ and we should not underestimate our chances to control the game and create space out wide.
Every team is looking for the perfect performance. A blackout suggests a very pleasing defensive purpose. But that is not enough and the AB attack needs a lot of work still. The lineouts are shabby and that has been a recent strength so improvement must be found there. Often the danger of putting in a complete performance is that there's only one way to go after that. So whilst I'm not happy with the overall performance of NZ particularly on attack, I actually think it's a good thing to have lots to improve on. Far better for the players to concentrate on things at training rather than have hot air blown in their faces when they pick up a newspaper.
2 weeks in to this championship and 2 home games coming up. They are must wins and that must be the focus. Then and only then, can the ABs focus on their most difficult away matches in La Plata and Soweto. Talk of a world record winning streak is premature. It should be a goal, no doubt, but plenty of rugby yet to come and plenty to improve on. That's how I like it.
From a psychological point of view, I'm not sure which is worse. Bob Dwyer came out in defence of Robbie Deans. Australia, he said, did well to hold out the ABs. But at the same time, he added, it doesn't do much good to think that the ABs were capable of putting 50 unanswered points on Australia rather than 22.
Deans and his players were quick to admit that the ABs had schooled Australia with a masterclass performance. The truth is the ABs will be disappointed once again their attack failed to click properly. Even more frustrating was that players were in a position to score and didn't. McCaw only had to grab the ball and ground it. If Read backed himself to ground the ball with an outstretched arm, then he should've done a better job. Carter inexplicably chose to throw a wild pass when putting his head down and driving for the line seemed a much better option. Those are examples of three tries that would've got NZ a bonus point and more of a lock on the championship.
That said, any side that can shut out an opposition from scoring in the modern game is doing a lot of things right. The defence of the Wallabies was impressive but so too was the AB defence. It's clear their gameplan is to play the game at pace and find offloads in the tackle all over the park. The accuracy is not matching the pace at the moment and there are far too many errors. Masterclass performance, not by a long shot.
Argentina will be disappointed they face NZ first at home rather than Australia. The week off may be a good thing for recharging their energy levels but you get the feeling with the momentum they created at home they would love to have a crack this weekend. What will the AB tactics be against Argentina? NZ lose SBW but gain Conrad Smith and Woodcock. Smith in particular is a welcome addition. Nonu will be back in his favoured position at 12 and Smith will be able to distribute ball to the back three a little better. NZ need to be mindful of SA the following week at home. That is a must win and will all but shut the gate on the championship, particularly if NZ get a bonus point against Argentina in Wellington.
I think it's a good moment to tweak the team a little. Cruden could come on for Carter and Carter move to the bench. I think Cruden could be more effective at opening up space against a smothering Argentinian defence. I don't think it'll happen but I'd like to see Savea come on for Gear. The more rugby this boy gets at the top level the better. Argentina is a good game to introduce him. There shouldn't be that many changes in the forwards because the ABs need a solid platform to get their backs some space. But if NZ do build a lead, then Hansen should clear the bench in anticipation of SA, even if it comes at the expense of continuity. Argentina have showed that they are not a side to be underestimated but they are playing in NZ and we should not underestimate our chances to control the game and create space out wide.
Every team is looking for the perfect performance. A blackout suggests a very pleasing defensive purpose. But that is not enough and the AB attack needs a lot of work still. The lineouts are shabby and that has been a recent strength so improvement must be found there. Often the danger of putting in a complete performance is that there's only one way to go after that. So whilst I'm not happy with the overall performance of NZ particularly on attack, I actually think it's a good thing to have lots to improve on. Far better for the players to concentrate on things at training rather than have hot air blown in their faces when they pick up a newspaper.
2 weeks in to this championship and 2 home games coming up. They are must wins and that must be the focus. Then and only then, can the ABs focus on their most difficult away matches in La Plata and Soweto. Talk of a world record winning streak is premature. It should be a goal, no doubt, but plenty of rugby yet to come and plenty to improve on. That's how I like it.
kiakahaaotearoa- Posts : 8287
Join date : 2011-05-10
Location : Madrid
Re: ABs with plenty to work on. That's how I like it.
The reality is it seems the all Blacks will not currently be pushed by any team.
Both the Springboks and the Wallabies have injury problems that has shown the next incumbents aren't good enough.
Deans seems to have stifled Australian creativity and wants the basics to be performed with more dominance and accuracy, without Horwill and Pocock, I can't see this happening.
Australia's biggest issue for me is their stars aren't perfroming, why I don't know, it could change in a fortnight or not.
SA has bigger problems, I actully don't know where to start really. But based on the first five tests under Meyer it doesn't look good at all.
This is certainly not good when one team has such an apparent gap in quality and perfromance compared to the rest of the world.
Both the Springboks and the Wallabies have injury problems that has shown the next incumbents aren't good enough.
Deans seems to have stifled Australian creativity and wants the basics to be performed with more dominance and accuracy, without Horwill and Pocock, I can't see this happening.
Australia's biggest issue for me is their stars aren't perfroming, why I don't know, it could change in a fortnight or not.
SA has bigger problems, I actully don't know where to start really. But based on the first five tests under Meyer it doesn't look good at all.
This is certainly not good when one team has such an apparent gap in quality and perfromance compared to the rest of the world.
Biltong- Moderator
- Posts : 26945
Join date : 2011-04-27
Location : Twilight zone
Re: ABs with plenty to work on. That's how I like it.
Well I definitely agree that it appears Australia and SA are capable of lifting their performance a lot. The same is true though for NZ. Ireland showed they could compete for one match. So far the championship has only dealt one game where it was a tight tussle. Obviously it would be ideal if every game was like that.
NZ has only played their two games against Australia. They've won 14 games out of their last 17 against Australia so it's hardly a new trend. Australia have looked abject on attack but credit should be given to the AB defence. Let's see how SA fare in Australia in two weeks.
NZ has only played their two games against Australia. They've won 14 games out of their last 17 against Australia so it's hardly a new trend. Australia have looked abject on attack but credit should be given to the AB defence. Let's see how SA fare in Australia in two weeks.
kiakahaaotearoa- Posts : 8287
Join date : 2011-05-10
Location : Madrid
Re: ABs with plenty to work on. That's how I like it.
The game schedule is almost ideal for NZ. With Argentina next, it gives us the physical forward battle but with a backline who aren't used to competing against the quality of that of NZ. The ABs won't get the go forward ball nor will they dominate the collisions, and this will be a great test. But the backs I feel will be able to attack their way out of trouble as they run at the space and not at the man.
Soweto is the big one for me now. La Plata will be huge too-but I feel the Pumas will run out of steam in the second half.
Do you think it was a media strategy by Aussie to exaggerate how good NZ were? I've never seen an Aussie side so effusive in their praise but NZ bombed so many points out there it was infuriating. Foster gets a pass mark for the backs creating opportunities but the finishing again needs a lot of work.
We're never that far ahead of SA and Aussie so Brisbane and Soweto will be a hell of a game. I expect SA to take their frustrations out on the Aussie pack.
The goal for NZ is to win every game, so if we achieve that for just over a season well it's in the bag obviously. But I just hope every Test gets the focus it deserves.
Soweto is the big one for me now. La Plata will be huge too-but I feel the Pumas will run out of steam in the second half.
Do you think it was a media strategy by Aussie to exaggerate how good NZ were? I've never seen an Aussie side so effusive in their praise but NZ bombed so many points out there it was infuriating. Foster gets a pass mark for the backs creating opportunities but the finishing again needs a lot of work.
We're never that far ahead of SA and Aussie so Brisbane and Soweto will be a hell of a game. I expect SA to take their frustrations out on the Aussie pack.
The goal for NZ is to win every game, so if we achieve that for just over a season well it's in the bag obviously. But I just hope every Test gets the focus it deserves.
disneychilly- Posts : 2156
Join date : 2011-03-23
Location : Dublin
Re: ABs with plenty to work on. That's how I like it.
I think the second test against Ireland will always be used as a reminder of the importance of taking one test at a time disney.
The Aussie reaction was a surprise. They're wily ones though. They may be trying to play mind games with SA saying you may think we're rubbish but you guys haven't played NZ yet. It may also be a case of giving an admission of defeat already at Brisbane and then rallying for that and focusing on winning there to get some much needed psychological relief. The Aussie stars like Genia and Beale seem to be burdened by this need to win against NZ. The AB defence contained danger men like Ioane, Genia and Beale and they just seemed rattled. Winning breeds confidence and that's when these players are at their most dangerous.
The Aus SA game will be a cracker. Both teams have plenty to play for after disappointing starts. The Wallabies might have the advantage in my mind simply because they will feel thank goodness we're playing somebody else!
What I like about Argentina in this comp is that they add another dimension. If Australia lose against them, it may well be the final nail in the coffin and they start putting some real focus and attention on forward play. That's what's really hampering them against NZ.
The Aussie reaction was a surprise. They're wily ones though. They may be trying to play mind games with SA saying you may think we're rubbish but you guys haven't played NZ yet. It may also be a case of giving an admission of defeat already at Brisbane and then rallying for that and focusing on winning there to get some much needed psychological relief. The Aussie stars like Genia and Beale seem to be burdened by this need to win against NZ. The AB defence contained danger men like Ioane, Genia and Beale and they just seemed rattled. Winning breeds confidence and that's when these players are at their most dangerous.
The Aus SA game will be a cracker. Both teams have plenty to play for after disappointing starts. The Wallabies might have the advantage in my mind simply because they will feel thank goodness we're playing somebody else!
What I like about Argentina in this comp is that they add another dimension. If Australia lose against them, it may well be the final nail in the coffin and they start putting some real focus and attention on forward play. That's what's really hampering them against NZ.
kiakahaaotearoa- Posts : 8287
Join date : 2011-05-10
Location : Madrid
Re: ABs with plenty to work on. That's how I like it.
I dont like the lay out of the rugby champion ships my self.
New Zealand played Australia in the first game away, and then played them again at home in the second game.
In my opinion New Zealand should have played Australia in the first game, and then played South Africa or Argentina in the second game. It would of been more of a contest in my opinion.
Who ever thought of this way of playing the tournament did not think it out proper.
New Zealand played Australia in the first game away, and then played them again at home in the second game.
In my opinion New Zealand should have played Australia in the first game, and then played South Africa or Argentina in the second game. It would of been more of a contest in my opinion.
Who ever thought of this way of playing the tournament did not think it out proper.
majesticimperialman- Posts : 6170
Join date : 2011-02-11
Re: ABs with plenty to work on. That's how I like it.
I disagree completely. The games have been well thought out geographically. That's a ridiculous travel schedule you're suggesting I'm afraid.
Australia play in Perth then move to Argentina. They play in Argentina after playing in SA.
SA play Argentina at home and then away and then play Australia in Perth and NZ at home. Then they play both NZ and Australia at home.
What you want is one week at home against one team and then another match away in every sense against another. You have to limit the travelling as much as possible. This isn't the 6N. The distances are huge and the players need to limit travelling as much as possible. Especially as none of the games in Argentina is being played in Buenos Aires.
Australia play in Perth then move to Argentina. They play in Argentina after playing in SA.
SA play Argentina at home and then away and then play Australia in Perth and NZ at home. Then they play both NZ and Australia at home.
What you want is one week at home against one team and then another match away in every sense against another. You have to limit the travelling as much as possible. This isn't the 6N. The distances are huge and the players need to limit travelling as much as possible. Especially as none of the games in Argentina is being played in Buenos Aires.
kiakahaaotearoa- Posts : 8287
Join date : 2011-05-10
Location : Madrid
Re: ABs with plenty to work on. That's how I like it.
Credit where credit is due. I thought Ben Smith had a strong game. Came on at centre and finished at fullback and looked sharp on attack. Best game in black for him.
kiakahaaotearoa- Posts : 8287
Join date : 2011-05-10
Location : Madrid
Re: ABs with plenty to work on. That's how I like it.
Agreed Kia. Very pleasantly surprised by him at centre. ope he plays more at centre at SXV and ITM levels.
Messam again didn't do anything wrong and is starting to establish himself. Great for him and the team.
Also agree about the scheduling. Minimising travel fatigue is the biggest factor in the scheduling.
Messam again didn't do anything wrong and is starting to establish himself. Great for him and the team.
Also agree about the scheduling. Minimising travel fatigue is the biggest factor in the scheduling.
disneychilly- Posts : 2156
Join date : 2011-03-23
Location : Dublin
Re: ABs with plenty to work on. That's how I like it.
Messam's performance is encouraging.
Still undecided about the Romano and Rettalick combination. That way does seem the best way to play them as Romano's bigger frame has more sting to it on defence and attack. His offloading is a plus but I think he needs to choose it carefully. This game he gave a few hospital passes and did his team mates no favours whatsoever. They're still young so you can't judge them too harshly as they don't look out of their depth but there is definitely much to learn and improve on for them.
Still undecided about the Romano and Rettalick combination. That way does seem the best way to play them as Romano's bigger frame has more sting to it on defence and attack. His offloading is a plus but I think he needs to choose it carefully. This game he gave a few hospital passes and did his team mates no favours whatsoever. They're still young so you can't judge them too harshly as they don't look out of their depth but there is definitely much to learn and improve on for them.
kiakahaaotearoa- Posts : 8287
Join date : 2011-05-10
Location : Madrid
Re: ABs with plenty to work on. That's how I like it.
I'm excited about Romano actually. He's stepped up as an abrasive 4 and we really need one. He still needs work as a scrummager but he should be persevered with as all the skills are there. Retallick is handy but haven't seen enough of either obviously to make concrete judgments.
To be honest I expect every player in the black jersey to have ball skills. They all must catch and pass well. The benefits of this are plain to see whenever the ABs turn the ball over. The ball often goes through the hands of props and locks who in turn put it onto the chest of the next player. So much time and space is bought by everyone hitting the man's chest. England in particular need to learn from this. Agree about offloading in dodgy situations but man it's unstoppable if you have multiple guys breaking the advantage line and offloading.
To be honest I expect every player in the black jersey to have ball skills. They all must catch and pass well. The benefits of this are plain to see whenever the ABs turn the ball over. The ball often goes through the hands of props and locks who in turn put it onto the chest of the next player. So much time and space is bought by everyone hitting the man's chest. England in particular need to learn from this. Agree about offloading in dodgy situations but man it's unstoppable if you have multiple guys breaking the advantage line and offloading.
disneychilly- Posts : 2156
Join date : 2011-03-23
Location : Dublin
Re: ABs with plenty to work on. That's how I like it.
For such a big man, he has soft hands and an eye for the gap. I remember in the first test in Sydney he put Read into a gap where there didn't seem to be anything on. Read knocked on but he knew a chance went begging as he was through the line.
There's definitely a big learning curve for both Romano and Retallick but I think that's a good thing. We lost a lot with Thorn and Kaino leaving but in Messam and Romano we seem to have found at least replacements who can offer up similar abilities. They deserve to be persevered with. They obviously can't be expected to play like Thorn and Kaino right off the bat. The important thing is the signs seem encouraging.
Speaking of Smith stepping up, I think Ben Franks has played well too recently. If he can perform against SA and Argentina like that, then his versatility makes him a valuable member.
There's definitely a big learning curve for both Romano and Retallick but I think that's a good thing. We lost a lot with Thorn and Kaino leaving but in Messam and Romano we seem to have found at least replacements who can offer up similar abilities. They deserve to be persevered with. They obviously can't be expected to play like Thorn and Kaino right off the bat. The important thing is the signs seem encouraging.
Speaking of Smith stepping up, I think Ben Franks has played well too recently. If he can perform against SA and Argentina like that, then his versatility makes him a valuable member.
kiakahaaotearoa- Posts : 8287
Join date : 2011-05-10
Location : Madrid
Re: ABs with plenty to work on. That's how I like it.
The context of the draw in Mendoza will be highlighted next round. This should be the ABs best result if initial seedings are anything to go by.
SA are in a difficult position in that they're away and they'll be facing a hugely desperate oz side who will have two weeks to prepare, some of which SA will be using for travel.
The oz defence did impress and I think its just a matter of time before the backs click. They'll smell blood from last weekends match and they've generally had it over SA recently.
They will miss Pocock and SA will be wanting to extract revenge for Brycegate.
I'm going for Oz primarily because of their potential and the fact that their two matches so far has required them at a higher level against the ABs.
SA have real problems. Two draws against lower ranked sides from five tests doesn't read well for meyer. He's picking the wrong players and executing the wrong gameplan. Backplay is neglected with SA unable to create real time, space or opportunity. They still view backplay as supplementary to the real effort up front.
SA are in a difficult position in that they're away and they'll be facing a hugely desperate oz side who will have two weeks to prepare, some of which SA will be using for travel.
The oz defence did impress and I think its just a matter of time before the backs click. They'll smell blood from last weekends match and they've generally had it over SA recently.
They will miss Pocock and SA will be wanting to extract revenge for Brycegate.
I'm going for Oz primarily because of their potential and the fact that their two matches so far has required them at a higher level against the ABs.
SA have real problems. Two draws against lower ranked sides from five tests doesn't read well for meyer. He's picking the wrong players and executing the wrong gameplan. Backplay is neglected with SA unable to create real time, space or opportunity. They still view backplay as supplementary to the real effort up front.
Taylorman- Posts : 12343
Join date : 2011-02-02
Location : Wellington NZ
Re: ABs with plenty to work on. That's how I like it.
On the NZ side of things the Wellington match is the chance to give the AB fans their treat for the year. Every now and then a sublime performance comes along an I think this will be it for 2012.
Argie just might have an understandable tinge of complacency now that the question of whether they should be in this tournament has been answered. Their staying power will also be tested.
I bet right now SBW is kicking himself for leaving at this point. To leave centre stage and go to the rugby backblocks of Japan when he is at the peak of his game must have him feeling stupid right now. Then on to league and he's going to find himself having less space than ever and certainly less of a standout there.
In a short time he's actually been able to work out for himself how to play this game and that must be a fantastic achievement.
What makes it worse for him is the way everyone has supported him in his decisions, despite not really understanding them.
SBW will be looking at himself in the mirror about now and telling himself you stupid #$+- dik!
Argie just might have an understandable tinge of complacency now that the question of whether they should be in this tournament has been answered. Their staying power will also be tested.
I bet right now SBW is kicking himself for leaving at this point. To leave centre stage and go to the rugby backblocks of Japan when he is at the peak of his game must have him feeling stupid right now. Then on to league and he's going to find himself having less space than ever and certainly less of a standout there.
In a short time he's actually been able to work out for himself how to play this game and that must be a fantastic achievement.
What makes it worse for him is the way everyone has supported him in his decisions, despite not really understanding them.
SBW will be looking at himself in the mirror about now and telling himself you stupid #$+- dik!
Taylorman- Posts : 12343
Join date : 2011-02-02
Location : Wellington NZ
Re: ABs with plenty to work on. That's how I like it.
Yeah it's a real shame. He was just getting the hang of it. I only hope he does come back in time for 2015. We definitely could do with him by then.
kiakahaaotearoa- Posts : 8287
Join date : 2011-05-10
Location : Madrid
Re: ABs with plenty to work on. That's how I like it.
I bet he's looking forward to being able to shoulder charge people into oblivion now though!
I'd rather have a tough game against Argentina and use the treat game somewhere else (Soweto?). You are right TM we usually cane someone once or twice a season. Ireland was one I think. I was at Athletic Park for the 93- demolition of Argentina and I must say I did feel sorry for them when I wasn't hanging onto the rails of the Millard.
I dunno about Ben Franks. I saw the scrum creak a bit in earlier games this season and I'm not 100% convinced. Good work otherwise but I get worried. Wouldn't want both Owen and Woody out-Ben and Crockett scare me sometimes.
I'd rather have a tough game against Argentina and use the treat game somewhere else (Soweto?). You are right TM we usually cane someone once or twice a season. Ireland was one I think. I was at Athletic Park for the 93- demolition of Argentina and I must say I did feel sorry for them when I wasn't hanging onto the rails of the Millard.
I dunno about Ben Franks. I saw the scrum creak a bit in earlier games this season and I'm not 100% convinced. Good work otherwise but I get worried. Wouldn't want both Owen and Woody out-Ben and Crockett scare me sometimes.
disneychilly- Posts : 2156
Join date : 2011-03-23
Location : Dublin
Re: ABs with plenty to work on. That's how I like it.
One thing that stood out for me in the oz test is every now and then this bullet of a pass would flash across the screen. When you take a bit of time to watch what he does Smiths passes have got to be the sweetest I've seen for a very long time, if ever. After seeing the replays a couple of times Dagg Smith Read and SBW had truly top of the drawer performances.
Taylorman- Posts : 12343
Join date : 2011-02-02
Location : Wellington NZ
Re: ABs with plenty to work on. That's how I like it.
Taylorman wrote:On the NZ side of things the Wellington match is the chance to give the AB fans their treat for the year. Every now and then a sublime performance comes along an I think this will be it for 2012.Argie just might have an understandable tinge of complacency now that the question of whether they should be in this tournament has been answered. Their staying power will also be tested.
I bet right now SBW is kicking himself for leaving at this point. To leave centre stage and go to the rugby backblocks of Japan when he is at the peak of his game must have him feeling stupid right now. Then on to league and he's going to find himself having less space than ever and certainly less of a standout there.
In a short time he's actually been able to work out for himself how to play this game and that must be a fantastic achievement.
What makes it worse for him is the way everyone has supported him in his decisions, despite not really understanding them.
SBW will be looking at himself in the mirror about now and telling himself you stupid #$+- dik!
And notice how it happens in Wgtn alot!
nganboy- Posts : 1868
Join date : 2011-05-11
Age : 55
Location : New Zealand
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