Why is it the hooker who throws into lineouts?

Way way back in the day it used to be wingers whgo did. But why not have your best thrower do the throwing in? take Ross ford - a great hooker around the field and in the scrum but sometimes his throwing goes to pieces. Why not test everyone to see how good they are at throwing into lineouts and use the best?

Maybe the best thrower is the centre, so the hooker could go to centre. Reckon that'd work?

emack will know

aucklandlaurie wrote:
Maybe the best thrower is the centre, so the hooker could go to centre. Reckon that'd work?

But wingers used to do it. I do not understand why rugby is so inflexible in the positioning of players. A very few teams use different lineups in attack and defense - like when Dan Parks drops to full back in defense. Why do not more teams do this? Occasionally we see a back go onto the scrum to allow a flanker in the middle on attacking ball

Say your best lineout thrower is a centre - a flanker drops to the centre position and the hooker stays in the lineout - or the winger to the centre and the hooker defends the wing on the lineout side. All he has to do is block a narrow alley.

I just do not see why it has to be the hooker who thorws in. Why was the change made from it being the winger? ( I know it was a long time ago :-)

aucklandlaurie wrote:
Maybe the best thrower is the centre, so the hooker could go to centre. Reckon that'd work?

Or the Scrum-Half, or maybe the Out-half?

I think maybe the Hooker is doing it for a reason! I know as a winger I was pretty rubbish. Maybe that's why Hookers took over in the first place

I am sure there is a reason - I jut cannot see it.

TJ wrote:

aucklandlaurie wrote:
Maybe the best thrower is the centre, so the hooker could go to centre. Reckon that'd work?

But wingers used to do it. I do not understand why rugby is so inflexible in the positioning of players. A very few teams use different lineups in attack and defense - like when Dan Parks drops to full back in defense. Why do not more teams do this? Occasionally we see a back go onto the scrum to allow a flanker in the middle on attacking ball

Say your best lineout thrower is a centre - a flanker drops to the centre position and the hooker stays in the lineout - or the winger to the centre and the hooker defends the wing on the lineout side. All he has to do is block a narrow alley.

I just do not see why it has to be the hooker who thorws in. Why was the change made from it being the winger? ( I know it was a long time ago :-)

TJ, on your own throw you are looking to attack, not defend.

I obviously meant the hooker holds that position on the wing - close to the lineout to support / help with a maul and close to the scrum half to help if the ball is bad.

Rava wrote:

TJ wrote:

aucklandlaurie wrote:
Maybe the best thrower is the centre, so the hooker could go to centre. Reckon that'd work?

But wingers used to do it. I do not understand why rugby is so inflexible in the positioning of players. A very few teams use different lineups in attack and defense - like when Dan Parks drops to full back in defense. Why do not more teams do this? Occasionally we see a back go onto the scrum to allow a flanker in the middle on attacking ball

Say your best lineout thrower is a centre - a flanker drops to the centre position and the hooker stays in the lineout - or the winger to the centre and the hooker defends the wing on the lineout side. All he has to do is block a narrow alley.

I just do not see why it has to be the hooker who thorws in. Why was the change made from it being the winger? ( I know it was a long time ago :-)

TJ, on your own throw you are looking to attack, not defend.

Back when they made the change lineouts were a lot more contested though. Lifting didn't come in until the '90s.

I remember a story about an ABs tour match back in the 70s where they had to play a centre on the wing due to injuries. He'd never thrown into the lineout so he and the other winger had to swap sides of the field depending on the side the ball went out on.

Well, you couldn't use a back because that would throw off any chance of a successful backs move off of the lineout. Missing a centre or a winger would be a huge disadvantage when passing the ball out wide. So it would have to be a forward really. Props are needed for lifting since they're typically the strongest, locks obviously are the tallest and therefore the best jumpers, and the flankers tend to be secondary jumpers since they're usually the lightest of all and make good extra options. That pretty much leaves the hooker really, who's somewhere between a prop and a flanker. Too heavy maybe to be lifted, but not as strong to do the lifting...? They're really the only reasonable choice as thrower!

bluestonevedder wrote:Well, you couldn't use a back because that would throw off any chance of a successful backs move off of the lineout. Missing a centre or a winger would be a huge disadvantage when passing the ball out wide. So it would have to be a forward really. Props are needed for lifting since they're typically the strongest, locks obviously are the tallest and therefore the best jumpers, and the flankers tend to be secondary jumpers since they're usually the lightest of all and make good extra options. That pretty much leaves the hooker really, who's somewhere between a prop and a flanker. Too heavy maybe to be lifted, but not as strong to do the lifting...? They're really the only reasonable choice as thrower!

Bluestone - far far too convincing

Missing the winger on the lineout side would not be a huge disadvantge - how often do they get the ball off the lineout? - thats what used to be used. Having a forward in that position would allow them to support the scrum half better?

i see your reasoning but still believe that if you have a great hooker who is not a great thrower then why not find someone else to thow? whay are the positions so inflexible anyway?

Roos ford - is the same size and shape as many back row players - and these days many backs as well.

I just think it would cause too much confusion TJ to be honest. Using even the winger from the lineout side would still be a hindrance. I imagine in the modern game, most teams bring them into play somehow, either as a decoy runner or have them looping around the back.

Also, what use would a winger be at a rolling maul off of a lineout?!

Anyway, that's my thinking.

Rava wrote:

bluestonevedder wrote:Well, you couldn't use a back because that would throw off any chance of a successful backs move off of the lineout. Missing a centre or a winger would be a huge disadvantage when passing the ball out wide. So it would have to be a forward really. Props are needed for lifting since they're typically the strongest, locks obviously are the tallest and therefore the best jumpers, and the flankers tend to be secondary jumpers since they're usually the lightest of all and make good extra options. That pretty much leaves the hooker really, who's somewhere between a prop and a flanker. Too heavy maybe to be lifted, but not as strong to do the lifting...? They're really the only reasonable choice as thrower!

Bluestone - far far too convincing

Have to admit, I'm surprised at myself for such a long post on a Tuesday (Monday) morning!

TJ wrote:Missing the winger on the lineout side would not be a huge disadvantge - how often do they get the ball off the lineout? - thats what used to be used. Having a forward in that position would allow them to support the scrum half better?

i see your reasoning but still believe that if you have a great hooker who is not a great thrower then why not find someone else to thow? whay are the positions so inflexible anyway?

Roos ford - is the same size and shape as many back row players - and these days many backs as well.

The blindside winger is often the most potent threat off a lineout. He could be a trail runner for a centres move, you've just lost a strike runner and any potential for an inside runner at real pace (not hooker pace).

You would also disrupt training as the winger would have to work with the forwards on lineout practice and backs for back moves, which are usually done in training at the same time.

Tj
From memory (which is always dodgy way to start), main reasons were:

By using two wings (each side) consistency in the throw was lost.Also because they were not seeing as many lineouts they were slower on the uptake to read how the opposition were attacking "your" lineout.

In terms of any back throwing it in,you are giving up one of your specialist backs in the backline on your ball, which wasnt very smart.

In training sessions a reason at the time of the change was that if a wing or any back went off to do Lineout drills with the forwards, it meant the backs couldnt constructuvely do anything else becasuse they were missing a man.

The way the game has evolved over the last ten years, now sees the hookers paramount skill as a lineout thrower replace what used to be his ability to hook the ball in scrums.

You are quite right though to say that who ever throws the ball in should be the best in the team, and this line of thought has only seen the hookers specilaise in the task even more.

Thanks for that folks

Alan Jacobsen should thrown in for the Scots. He's smaller than Ford and i doubt he is more effective in lifting in the lineouts!

Does chunk know how to throw a ball? - he would probably eat it. :-)

Most Hookers are aggressive and uptight, so I expect no one wants to tell them that someone else can do it better.

HERSH wrote:Most English Hookers are aggressive and uptight, so I expect no one wants to tell them that someone else can do it better.

Fixed that for you Hersh

Dutch hookers are laid back, but remember, what goes on tour stays on tour.

Now with higher skill levels in forwards, many a flanker is used in a set move or something off a shortened lineout. So using a winger to throw in would not necessarily diminish an attack of a set move.

So may be there used to be a good reason but that doesn't mean it can't happen again.Would also mean that little move where the lineout reciever passes directly back to the throw could result in more metres assuming winger has a good burst of speed.

Why do the hooker throw into a line out?
Because if the ball could be kicked in, it would have been the flyhlaves job.
Because he can't catch?
Because he is too fat to lift?
Because they are used to standing on the side? (pavements)
What else will he do, you see how the opposition hooker just stand off the line out when it isn't their throw, looking totally lost.

Well hookers don't hook anymore so if you reinstate wingers throwing into the lineout then you could do away with hookers altogether. Seemples

Rava wrote:Well hookers don't hook anymore so if you reinstate wingers throwing into the lineout then you could do away with hookers altogether. Seemples

True, then the scrums can go as well, we can drop the two slow props for one faster more agile runner and change the code to League.

Biltong wrote:

Rava wrote:Well hookers don't hook anymore so if you reinstate wingers throwing into the lineout then you could do away with hookers altogether. Seemples

True, then the scrums can go as well, we can drop the two slow props for one faster more agile runner and change the code to League.

Love it!

It's purely because out of the 15 blokes on the pitch , he's the one perceived as having a free set of hands so might as well let him throw in.

In defense he just stands in the channel.

because we can

:-)

Tradition. At school our tighthead always used tonthrow in

ChequeredJersey wrote:Tradition. At school our tighthead always used tonthrow in

He didnt go in for that lifting business then?

SCW tested this out and Mike Catt had the best throw accuracy in the team. dunno.

its simple, hookers need to throw well, as well as scrummage.

its not like they need decent off-loading skills whilst running and lurk on the wing (Tommo did this once much to the pubs amusement, he accelerated quite quickly but run out of steam after 3seconds flat out)

Because hookers are used to finding their own jumpers after the balls have gone out.

aucklandlaurie wrote:

ChequeredJersey wrote:Tradition. At school our tighthead always used tonthrow in

He didnt go in for that lifting business then?

Nah, one of our other flankers was a monster and could cover LH prop so he lifted and the hooker cleared up at the tail. Or if that flanker was at LH, I lifted. Lots of variation but our TH always threw in.

I understand why teams would want the hooker throwing.

What I don't understand is why they don't take the throwing duties off him when his throwing has obviously gone to pieces in a very important match. They might replace him with a another hooker. But they'll never get anyone else to take the throws.

NZ used Ma'a Nonu to throw to the lineout in Wales a few years back, or was it Tana Umaga a few more years back?

Hookers don't 'hook' any more so if you take away the lineout throwing too they might get a bit bored.

Positionally, you might lose out a bit by using another player (especially a back), but if you lose every other throw because the hooker is no good at it (or goes to pieces) then you may as well try something else.

Because hookers have the most developed right arm muscles...

In reality the Hookes these days are generally scrummaging back rowers, or mobile props.

There isn't much of a hook at scrum time anymore, and at the lineout it's just too risky in this day and age to let a back throw in because of how defenses and attacks are structured.

There is absolutely no reason why a prop can't throw into the lineout, but if that is the only positional skill required why not get him converted into a hooker and get a better prop in? Or if the hookers a good scrummager convert him to prop.

I for one always have my best forward (including SH) throwing in at junior level, no matter what his position.

In general in the adult game the hooker will be the best thrower in though, if he goes to peices during a game it is not an issue of getting a better thrower to do it as there isn't one. It will be a mental or elemental issue, of which if you take the throw in away from him you risk hampering his development, and confidence, especially at the higher levels!

French used wingers back in the 70s. more than other Europeans. Maybe French wingers can throw straight. Laws forbid it now, not sure ?

Other considerations:
Pack: tall blokes need to be in the line, heavy fat blokes for the lifting, so that leaves, err I suppose the hooker as the least useful in the lineout.
Shortened line outs: anyone could have a go at throwing in, but it needs specialist practice.. so back to one guy who does it all the time.