Edinburgh V Munster Build up thread

by **RDW** Wed 29 Aug - 10:35

First topic message reminder :

Edinburgh team

15 Greig Tonks  

14 Lee Jones
13 Nick De Luca 
12 Ben Atiga
11 Tim Visser

10 Greig Laidlaw CAPTAIN 
9 Richie Rees  

1 John Yapp
2 Ross Ford 
3 Willem Nel 
4 Grant Gilchrist
5 Sean Cox 
6 David Denton
7 Ross Rennie 
8 Stuart McInally  

Substitutes :
16 Andy Titterrell
17 Allan Jacobsen
18 Geoff Cross 
19 Perry Parker
20 Dimitri Basilaia
21 Chris Leck
22 Gregor Hunter
23 John Houston

Munster Team Named:

01 Wian du Preez
02 Damien Varley
03 BJ Botha
04 Donncha O'Callaghan
05 Billy Holland
06 Paddy Butler
07 Sean Dougall
08 James Coughlan
09 Duncan Williams
10 Ian Keatley
11 Luke O'Dea
12 James Downey
13 Casey Laulala
14 Doug Howlett (capt.)
15 Denis Hurley

16 Mike Sherry
17 Marcus Horan
18 Stephen Archer
19 Dave Foley
20 Barry O'Mahony
21 Peter Stringer
22 Scott Deasy
23 Ivan Dineen

by GLove39 Sat 1 Sep - 21:39

Tim Visser completes his hatrick

by valjester Sat 1 Sep - 21:40

Forward pass surely? Started one side of the line and caught on the other side.

by funnyExiledScot Sat 1 Sep - 21:40

I take that back! Nice work from de luca to create the score.

by GLove39 Sat 1 Sep - 21:40

Visser over in the extreme corner, Laidlaw pulls the kick wise, those 6 points might be very costly

by MBTGOG Sat 1 Sep - 21:41

Hat trick for Visser. That is what Edinburgh needed, to get Denton into the outside centre channel where he can commit men. Then De Luca ran an excellent line off him.

by Thomond Sat 1 Sep - 21:41

Oh feic. Close it lads, would be a very good start to the season. Deasy interesting move. Stringer should have been on, Williams is not very good unfortunately. Well done to the Dutchman, 3 already. Will get over 10 for the season probably.

I'm worried.

by GLove39 Sat 1 Sep - 21:49

No more scores and Munster get the win.
Gutting star to the season, good start & finish for Edinburgh but we dropped off inbetween.

by MBTGOG Sat 1 Sep - 21:52

Really enjoyable game of rugby that. Munster just about made it out with the victory in the end. I think the physicality in the midfield for Munster made a big difference.

Munster backrow had a very big game, if not individually but as a unit, they were very strong and went about their jobs very well.

by Thomond Sat 1 Sep - 22:00

DOC was stunning in the second half and I'm guessing he did the same in the first. That was a solid performance from the lads, poor start and finish but very good middle.

by Artful_Dodger Sat 1 Sep - 22:00

Well played Munster.

by bsando Sat 1 Sep - 22:11

Enjoyed that game! Pretty frustrating though, Edinburgh seemed sloppy but they had moments of brilliance. I thought there was a lack of input from a few of the summer signings, but I'm sure we'll see more from likes of Atiga, Reese and Nel in coming months. After all, it was Munster Edinburgh were up against and it is the first game of the season. Tonks had a brilliant game, really impressive! Sure things will only improve. Congrats macvisser on your hatrick and Congrats Munster!

by **RDW** Sat 1 Sep - 22:13

Feck sake - not worth the 25 sheets I spent on that, and I suspect a lot of othee Edinburgh fans thought the same! Pretty poor from Edinburgh. No cohesion and not aggressive enough.Startwd well but maybe started tol well as we didn't raise the intensity.

Fair play to Munster - didn't do a massive amount but didn't have to!

Thought tonks had a very good game - gives a nice balance to the backline with his kicking game with the left foot.

Ref was crap - but I suspect for both teams!

Massive disappointment and must do better. The boys looked ragin at the end which is a good thing.

by funnyExiledScot Sat 1 Sep - 22:33

Agreed on tonks, looks a handy attacking fullback. Brown has stiff competition there.

Thought cox and denton played well too.

In general munster played better as a team and worked together. Lots of good individual stuff from edinburgh but no cohesion.

Still, better than the saints game....

by **RDW** Sat 1 Sep - 22:46

Agreed - they were the better 'team'

Atiga offered nothing again. We need Matt Scott's dynamism sharpish

by funnyExiledScot Sat 1 Sep - 23:15

Atiga tackled well and is aggressive in contact, but so far nothing to suggest scott won't come straight back.

by drsambo1928 Sat 1 Sep - 23:17

Isnt Atiga the ex All Black (1 cap anyway)?

by **RDW** Sat 1 Sep - 23:42

Yeah, and ex world junior player of the year. He hasn't played in over a year though and isn't fit.

by drsambo1928 Sat 1 Sep - 23:46

Well you want to make use of that talent, not all the time you get ex All Blacks playing for you. Not to mention the polynesian New Zealanders are ridicuosly strong and physical and aggressive, something any team would like.

by **RDW** Sat 1 Sep - 23:49

I think he'll be a good signing for us, he just needs to get fit and back to speed after a long time out the game!

by drsambo1928 Sun 2 Sep - 0:00

I'm sure he will too, as long as he dosent play well against Leinster.

by **Notch** Sun 2 Sep - 0:01

Considering they were at home, and Munster very much weakened, that is a TERRIBLE result for Edinburgh. They should be taking that game every time.

Will watch it tomorrow but that is a really bad start.

by **RDW** Sun 2 Sep - 0:14

My thoughts exactly notch

by **Notch** Sun 2 Sep - 0:44

Visser is well on his way to being the leagues top scorer in a losing team for another year though.

by **George Carlin** Sun 2 Sep - 8:25

RDW_Scotland wrote:My thoughts exactly notch

Totally agreed - we absolutely cannot start regarding home defeats as acceptable. This is an appalling start for Bradley, nothing more and it is rather self defeating to be scrabbling for positives.

Particularly against a talented Munster team but one which presumably offered them half time banana rusks, bottles of formula and a short session of watching Barney the Dinosaur.

by eirebilly Sun 2 Sep - 8:31

I really enjoyed the match myself. Thought that it was great and Ed were so close in the end. Munster were there for the taking and Ed can feel a bit upset at that loss.

by MBTGOG Sun 2 Sep - 9:09

Why shouldn't you scrabble for positives? As long as negatives are noted, I see no harm at looking at some of the good things that happened. Remember, there is still a whole season to ho, good to know what works for the team.

by eirebilly Sun 2 Sep - 9:46

I dont know about you Munsty but i rewatched the game again this morning and that centre pairing looked even better the second time watching Very Happy

by **RDW** Sun 2 Sep - 9:52

How did laulala come back on? The guy was clearly knocked out not not entirely with it and was subbed off - I'm assuming he had blood?

by LeinsterFan4life Sun 2 Sep - 12:36

Im sure downey silenced any doubters after that game. I thought he played great.

by justified sinner Sun 2 Sep - 12:47

RDW_Scotland wrote:How did laulala come back on? The guy was clearly knocked out not not entirely with it and was subbed off - I'm assuming he had blood?

I was puzzled at the time. I thought the 5 min concussion protocol was in place in the Rabo this season. He played on after some smelling salts and was then hauled off for what was announced as a blood sub. Clearly no blood, the medics did another quick check then reversed the sub. I was pitchside near the Munster bench at the time and it all looked a bit weird.

by **RDW** Sun 2 Sep - 12:53

Thought the 5 min thing was only in the AP? Looked pretty dodgy to me

by MBTGOG Sun 2 Sep - 15:16

eirebilly wrote:I dont know about you Munsty but i rewatched the game again this morning and that centre pairing looked even better the second time watching

You've nearly convinced me to watch it all again.

by **profitius** Sun 2 Sep - 17:50

Tim Visser had this to say.

"Munster shouldn't have won this game," said Visser.

"They played half the game we did but compared to last year we have made huge progress.

"We dominated physically and we are putting good phases together but just our inability to keep hold of the ball at crucial moments meant we lost this game.

"It's hugely frustrating because we dominated them physically in the contact.

"They (the tries) were all good, it's good just getting what I can from the players around me.

"They are putting me away which helps and I am always happy to finish things up."

Tim is deluding himself. Munster were easily the better team. I backed Edinburgh but they never looked like winning the match. They were sloppy, with loads of handling errors.

by **RDW** Sun 2 Sep - 17:52

Yeah, visser is talkin pish!

by Thomond Sun 2 Sep - 17:53

He has a point. We played a good 20/30 minutes of the game with some dominance. We took our opportunities. After that Edinbrugh were dominant yet didn't capitilise on it.

by MBTGOG Sun 2 Sep - 18:00

Sorry Thomond, but Edinburgh scored their first two tries quite against the run of play though they were good. They had good spots but Munster were the stronger side for well over half of that match.

I heard Visser say that after the match yesterday but it was straight away afterwards, so people are always more extreme at that point.

by Thomond Sun 2 Sep - 18:03

Fair enough, I think they had the dominance in the first period and in the latter stages. It was even for some parts. Munster had 20.30 minutes of superiority. I felt it was relatively even after that. But that's just my take on it.

by MBTGOG Sun 2 Sep - 18:11

I don't think they had dominance at any point in the first half. Munster were stronger throughout though not dominant. Like I said, Edinburgh scored their two first half tries against the run of play, especially the second. Edinburgh had their best spell right at the end of the game.

by **RDW** Mon 3 Sep - 8:51

Ah well - congrats to Munster and best of luck for the season! guinness

(Until we play you in the Heineken of course....!)

by red_stag Mon 3 Sep - 10:01

This was a great win for Munster. This should give us a platform for two more wins in the next few weeks against Treviso and Dragons.

I was delighted to see the new centres click so well and I was really happy to see Keatley play with such confidence. He needs to keep playing if he is to develop, if we as a team are to develop away from being dependent on O'Gara.

Edinburgh definitly got their first two tries against run of play - I thought it was a very even match overall but Munster were just more clinical. At the end of the day Laidlaw missed all of his conversions - more often than not though, thats just too many points to leave behind against Munster to win.

by reallybored Mon 3 Sep - 10:11

I genuinely think part of Edinburgh's problem is having Laidlaw at fly-half, not that the loss at the weekend was solely his fault.

When we're dictating the pace and shifting the point of attack constantly he's been great, especially last season with Blair. But when we're not on the front foot and can't get momentum, we often seem to go back and forth around our 22. Just doesn't look like he has the range when kicking from hand and we therefore rarely play in the right areas of the pitch, sometimes looks like Godman Mark II.

Would much prefer to see him back at 9, taking the pressure off Leonard or Hunter.

Anyone of the same opinion?

by **RDW** Mon 3 Sep - 10:16

I still think that he is our best, and Scotland's best, fly half and will only get better with even more game time. Look at the first try - his timing of the pass was exquisite! I do agree though that we were shuffling it around a bit when we weren't on the front foot. This is also Scotland's problem though, even if Laidllaw isn't at 10.

What I did like though was using Tonks as a kicking option - he seems to be a really good footballer, good under the high ball and got a big boot on him. He's also left footed too which gives us a good balance. Perhaps Tonks could be used more for his kicking to get us in the right positions?

He doesn't offer as much as Brown attacking wise but looks like he's going to be a real good signing for us. He also converted a 2 on 1 for Visser's 2nd try - how often can we say that about Scottish backs recently??

by **RDW** Mon 3 Sep - 10:20

It was also Laidlaw's first game back after the summer tour and you could expect him to be rusty.

All 3 of his kicks were from the far left touchline and were tough, although you'd maybe expect a man of his kicking ability to get at least 2 of them. Again though it is his first game back so hopefully that will come good soon enough.

by MBTGOG Mon 3 Sep - 10:42

I really hope Felix Jones can come back from his latest injury setback. I think we could see even more from him playing off this centre partnership.

by red_stag Mon 3 Sep - 11:15

Is Earls' place in this Munster backline at risk?

by Sin é Mon 3 Sep - 11:57

red_stag wrote:Is Earls' place in this Munster backline at risk?

No. He hasn't had a chance to do anything to lose it yet.

by red_stag Mon 3 Sep - 12:03

SinÉ,

I don't like the idea of him "losing" his place.

Every player has to earn their place.

I think he could do very well at full back. It will be at least November til Jones plays. I reckon Munster could have a worse backline for HEC than:

09 Conor Murray
10 Ian Keatley
11 Simon Zebo
12 James Downey
13 Casey Laulala
14 Doug Howlett
15 Keith Earls

21 Peter Stringer
22 Ronan O'Gara
23 Denis Hurely

by Sin é Mon 3 Sep - 12:19

Stag, I know Earls will do well at fullback, wing or centre and may end up at fullback, but in the medium to longterm (Laulala will be gone in 2 years and Downey will be getting on), Munster need to work on developing a top class centre partnership that will last us 5/6 years. We've a bit of talent with Zebo & O'Dea & hopefully Felix's injuries are now over and done with.

Howlett is also getting on, so Zebo, O'Dea & Jones need to get experience as well.

by MBTGOG Mon 3 Sep - 12:41

Earls will have to earn his place not lose it. Howlett and O'Dea have already set a high standard on each wing, while at centre, Laulala looked very good. Earls is going to have to play really well to get a starting spot.

by funnyExiledScot Mon 3 Sep - 13:01

I agree with those who think Earls will end up at fullback this season. I've always thought he should settle there, and I can't see him shifting Laulala out of the 13 jersey. Laulala and Downey looks an excellent combination based on what I saw. He isn't going to shift Howlett, and LOD was excellent on Saturday night.

From an Edinburgh perspective the positives were Denton, Rennie and McInally in the pack (Cox was also decent), and NDL, Visser and Tonks in the backs. As a team there was little cohesion though, and I thought individually Rees, Atiga (in attack - good in defence) and Jones were poor.

Poor result to start with. I felt Edinburgh became too passive around the rucks (DOC bullied well in that regard), and allowed Munster to dictate the game. Yes, Edinburgh looked sharp in patches and scored a really nice set piece try in the first half and showed great opportunism to steal a score from under their own posts (McInally was superb in that passage of play), but Munster probably looked more like the home team for most of the match, perhaps apart from the first and last 5 minutes.

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