Champions League Group Stage Draw

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Starts at 16.45

As a refresher (this is from memory), 8 groups of 4 teams, each team in a group is selected from a pot. No team can be drawn against one from the same country, and only 2 teams from 1 country can be drawn in groups A-D and E-H for scheduling reasons

The Pots:
Pot One: Chelsea, Barcelona, Manchester United, Bayern Munich, Real Madrid, Arsenal, Porto, AC Milan.
Pot Two: Valencia, Benfica, Shakhtar Donetsk, Zenit St Petersburg, Schalke, Manchester City, Braga, Dynamo Kiev.
Pot Three: Olympiakos, Ajax, Anderlecht, Juventus, Spartak Moscow, Paris St Germain, Lille, Galatasaray.
Pot Four: Celtic, Borussia Dortmund, BATE Borisov, Dinamo Zagreb, CFR Cluj, Malaga, Montpellier, FC Nordsjaelland.

Man City being the only PL team to miss out on Pot 1

Best case scenario for the 3 teams in pot 1 probably looks like : PL team, Braga/Kiev, Anderlecht/Olympiakos, Anyone but Dortmund/Malaga/Montpellier
Worst case scenario being::: PL team, Valencia, Juve/PSG, Dortmund

Whereas for Man City, best would prob be Porto while worst one of the Spanish big 2.

Funnily enough you said we'd never get to the CL, we did!

Still you're bitter twisted hatred shines through, its amusing

As for the group itself, I'm quite pleased with it, being in pot four we're always going to get a hard group but for me this group gives us a chance, watched a bit of Spartak (mainly due to McGeady) and their form has been patchy to say the least, they got murdered 5-0 against Zenit two weeks ago although they beat Dynamo 4-0 the week before, wasn't overly impressed with their Play-Off games either, it'll be a hard ask but I'd like to think we could take 3 points off them at home, away? Who knows

Benfica, we've had them in our group twice, twice they were favourites to best us and twice we reached the last 16 at their expense, again it'll be a hard ask but again its a tie I feel we can hopefully take 3 points from, its also good news that City signed Garcia late on Friday

With Barca in the groups I feel the head to heads will come into play for progression to the last 16 or the Europa League, right now though Celtic stand to make £15m from just reaching the group stages, so that in itself is success but I'd love to see us make the Europa at least and I feel it is a definite possibility, people writing us off takes the pressure off, we've got a young talented side with bags of energy, I'm sure we won't be over-run

People also forget that the big names often fall at the group stages and smaller teams can pull of surprises. I'd say third is definitely achievable.

Small? If size is all its about Celtic would qualify for the latter stages comfortably every single year

Nothing like a nice bit of patronising ehh

the-gaffer wrote:Funnily enough you said we'd never get to the CL, we did!

Still you're bitter twisted hatred shines through, its amusing

As for the group itself, I'm quite pleased with it, being in pot four we're always going to get a hard group but for me this group gives us a chance, watched a bit of Spartak (mainly due to McGeady) and their form has been patchy to say the least, they got murdered 5-0 against Zenit two weeks ago although they beat Dynamo 4-0 the week before, wasn't overly impressed with their Play-Off games either, it'll be a hard ask but I'd like to think we could take 3 points off them at home, away? Who knows

Benfica, we've had them in our group twice, twice they were favourites to best us and twice we reached the last 16 at their expense, again it'll be a hard ask but again its a tie I feel we can hopefully take 3 points from, its also good news that City signed Garcia late on Friday

With Barca in the groups I feel the head to heads will come into play for progression to the last 16 or the Europa League, right now though Celtic stand to make £15m from just reaching the group stages, so that in itself is success but I'd love to see us make the Europa at least and I feel it is a definite possibility, people writing us off takes the pressure off, we've got a young talented side with bags of energy, I'm sure we won't be over-run

Well done for getting through, I actually said it would be hard for Celtic to qualify rather than they wouldn't but sadly (but deservedly) for Celtic and all SPL clubs it will be the last time they do.

As for making £15m. Not sure what difference that will make. You'll still be playing in a one team domestic league with an appalling UEFA coefficient, never to be seeded in qualification again as of next year, so any decent players are unlikely to want to join just to win tinpot domestic silverware and be knocked out at the qualification stage every year. Can't blame them.

You don't know that, Miku signed this year, he's very highly rated and by all accounts knocked back two Premiership clubs in Swansea and Reading to come here, he said he was motivated by the thought of winning trophies, Celtic aren't blameless for the state of the Coefficient but in the last three years I feel we've had some credible results, wins at Dynamo Moscow, Helsinki and Helsingborgs, draws at Rennes, Udinese, Hamburg and Rapid Vienna and holding our own at home, of course their has been some disasters along the way, Braga in hindsight wasn't a disaster but I do feel we arrogantly underestimated them and Utrecht which was a complete bum-steer, on the whole though I feel we've held our own, whether people accept it or not

Our league is struggling for finance, that hinders teams like St Johnstone and Motherwell from competing when that step up is required

I also feel its premature to blindly say "it'll be the last time you qualify", you like me have no idea what the future holds, Celtic might not be many peoples preferred choice of club but they have a business model that is geared to make money and if they continue to do that and continue to attract young often unknown talent then it's not inconceivable that they'll surprise a few European teams, punch above their weight and help build our coeffiecient for the future

Scotland fell to 29th, from what I understand off the back of Celtic's results alone so far this season Scotland will jump at least 4 places, the coefficient isn't something that can be repaired instantly, it takes time, I'm happy with the direction my club are going, it could be better but it could be a whole lot worse

Gaffer, having read the UEFA website for info about CHampions league qualifying can you really see Celtic who are likely to be unseeded based on their team ranking, qualifying against a seeded team like Arsenal, Kiev, Dortmund etc? Not a chance.

Coefficients are calculated on the last 5 years, so a couple of wins against a team like Helsingborgs won't do much to change it. In fact i'd be surprised if they didn't drop from 63rd as they are currently ranked as a team.

Jumping 4 places won't do any good either as next year Celtic will still face tricky ties, and when they are inevitably knocked out the league and club coefficient will drop yet again, plus due to the lower league ranking will more than likely have to play yet another qualifying round. It's up in the air as to whether Celtic will be seeded. Perhaps only just, but the league going down the tubes means more qualifying rounds to negotiate.

Playing non competitive football in a one team league where they aren't stretched is hardly going to make things any better.

Celtic won't draw an Arsenal, Kiev or a Dortmund in any future draws, the Champions path doesn't allow it, the whole thing is designed to give more Champions from lesser European Leagues the opportunity to progress to the Group Stages

I also feel it's highly disrespectful to say Celtic are playing 'non-competitive football', tell the Hibs fans that on Saturday or the Ross County fans that a couple of weeks vback, the Aberdeen match on the First day of the season was also highly competitive.

Celtic will win the league, there's no doubting that however to say these games lack competitivesness or it's edge is ignorant of the facts and highly inaccurate, some of the football may not be to the taste of the purists among us but something that is never short is effort and desire, those attributes will always see games competitive

They are competitive in a way, but not in a Champions League context or in a way which prepares Celtic for such a competition, same reason why Levein shouldn't pick any Scottish based players.

The SPL is without doubt on of the lesser leagues now, certainly UEFA considers it so, so it's perfectly possible and highly probable that Celtic will be drawing far better teams than Helsingborgs in the next couple of years and qualification will be a nigh on impossibility, certainly if the authorities insist on the ridiculous notion of playing winter football.

They are competitive in a way, but not in a Champions League context or in a way which prepares Celtic for such a competition

That's supposedly always been the case though, yet somehow some way some of our clubs always seem to find a way, on the flip side Celtic have the prospect of resting the majority of their first choice Champions League XI the weekend before any group matches

As for your point about the SPL being one of the lesser leagues now, its hard to argue, we're ranked at 29th, however Sweden are ranked at 27th, off the back of Celtic's results so far this season the SPL will rise to at the very least 25th, hopefully a couple of CL results and possible qualification for the Europa League we could jump another 4 places

No doubt Celtic in the future could play better teams than Helsingborgs in the Champions League Play-Off round but as long as they're the Scottish Champions it won't be a big gun from Spain, England, Germany, Italy, France, Portugal or Russia, so taking that into account then there will always be a realistic opportunity to qualify from those particular rounds

Still, all that talk of future Qualification is for another dayn we simply rejoice in the fact that we've got a Scottish Club in the competition again, particularly with all the doom mongering that was predicting Armageddon for this season

Yeah, but how long ago was that, at least 4 seasons, and also when other leagues in direct competition weren't as strong and there was more of a level financial playing field. The SPL has been left behind by other leagues and their dreadful administration and shortsightedness. (nothing to do with that club which went bust by the way)

The 15 million which Celtic may receive from this is chicken feed, especially as little will get reinvested into the squad and will do very little to persuade players of proper Champions League quality sufficient to win enough games to sufficiently raise the clubs or league coefficient to join the club.

Celtic might not draw a team from England, Spain , Italy etc, lets be honest they'd get hammered if they did, but even teams from Belgium, Holland, Portugal , Greece etc who they could well face will be incredibly hard matches.

You have to be a top 16 league to get the qualification benefits, so rising a mere 4 places from 29 will do nothing to help them. I can't see the SPL ever reaching those heights again.

It was 4 seasons for Celtic yes, but not 4 seasons for the SPL, it was only last season that the SPL never had a representitive, also, you don't seem to quite grasp the 'Champions Path' for the CL, the Champions of Scotland won't draw teams from Holland, Belgium, Portugal or even Greece, the Champions path is Champions of Countries like Scotland against Countries of similar European Stature, it's an inititive put in place a few years ago by Platini in order to get more Champions into the Champions League

As for your point about not attracting "players of Champions League quality"...for me that's what's wrong with your logic, you call yourself a realist yet any realistic fan will know that its simply not financially viable for a Scottish club to sign those types of players, the transfer fee and the wages simply wouldn't be realistic, however that's not to say there aren't players out there in so called untapped markets that clubs with a modest level of money can sign, hopefully improve, allow them to compete in the Champions League and then sell on for a hefty profit and do it again, you say Celtic won't attract players that will see them win enough games to raise the coeddicient, however that's said without having seen them play one game in it, guys like Forrest, Ledley, Kayal, Mulgrew, Matthews, Izaguirre and Wanyama cost the club a combined total of £2.75m, 3 of those players are 21 or under, the other four are mid 20s, all have learned their European trade with Celtic, it's impossible to say that these guys won't or can't win football matches in the Champions League until they have been properly tested in that enviroment

£15m might sound like 'Chicken Feed' to you, however that allows Celtic to invest that money in their squad by giving them better contracts which in turn allows the club more leverage in negotiating a better fee when these players eventually leave which in turn helps the club re-invest into the playing side of the squad

Realism is very much needed when discussing the prospects of how well a Scottish club can do in the Champions League

You can hardly say they've learned their european trade with Celtic when Celtic have had no significant European representation other than the Europa league, and very fleeting and embarassing appearances in that too.


We shall see how Celtic do in the champions league. It's good that they got through, but I feel they are going to get their ar$es handed to them, even though they got a lucky group. Can't wait to see Barcelona stick 5 past them at "paradise".(calling anything "Paradise" in that hellhole Glasgow is delightfully ironic)

As for Forrest, Mulgrew, Ledley and Matthews, come on. They'd be average (and have been) in the Championship, so lets not kid yourself you'll be selling them on for much.

Celtic and the SPL are seriously small fry now. It's a fact, and given the fact you accept that one CL appearance in 4 years is an amazing achievement, something you appear to have subconsciously accepted.

Fleeting and embarassing,??? that's the reason why very few are willing to discuss Scottish Football with you, the fact you need to sensationalise things for nothing other than effect and an attempt to antagonise!

Celtic weren't embarassed last year, we should get thet straight, they where cheated in the Europa League qualifier and in turn they where aptly reinstated ASAP, when they got into the group Sion were drawn into they found themselves in a Champions League-esque group, were they embarassed? I wouldn't say so, they lost 2 games in the group to the eventual winners Atletico Madrid, a team with a striker they just spent £30m+ on, they did very well against Udinese at Celtic Park and were by most observers opinions the better team in Italy, this was at the time when Udinese sat top of Seria A

So Fleeting and Embarassing? Na it wasn't, we both genuinely know that, although the Realist in me truly knows deep down they should have won all 6 games ehh

As for your rant ...."can't wait to see Barcelona stick 5 past them"

Could you not have just said that at the start and stopped all the nonsense that you've only got the best interests of Scottish Football at heart, we all know its just down to simple jealousy that you've such a negative opinion of football in scotland and any club/player/fan who have the audacity to promote it in a positive way, you try to hide it though through nonsense about your worry of the coefficient, that coefficient isn't and won't be in your thoughts when Barca come to town obviously, as for them beating Celtic and taking 5 off them...who knows, maybe they will, maybe they won't, if it happens it happens, Celtic won't be the first club they've done that too and they won't be the last, infact it wasn't long ago that the mighty Real Madrid got cuffed by that margin

As for your opinion on Forrest and Ledley and Matthews, again that shows you up for what you are, and it certainly isn't a realist

Celtic getting to the Champions League is a great achievement, only 32 clubs can get there every year, we've not managed it in previous years because we didn't spend beyond our means in a bid to win the League Title, it may yet be revealed that those past titles are awarded to Celtic because of another clubs possible financial doping, if so then the club would have realistically be involved in the Champions League at least twice in those 'missing' years

I was enjoying this debate albeit cautiously as I remembered how negative you were however felt like giving you another chance, the sinister nature of your last post shows that you type with blind biased hatred instead of realism, logic and knowledge.

Fair cop though, you had me hooked for a few days

super_realist wrote:You can hardly say they've learned their european trade with Celtic when Celtic have had no significant European representation other than the Europa league, and very fleeting and embarassing appearances in that too.


We shall see how Celtic do in the champions league. It's good that they got through, but I feel they are going to get their ar$es handed to them, even though they got a lucky group. Can't wait to see Barcelona stick 5 past them at "paradise".(calling anything "Paradise" in that hellhole Glasgow is delightfully ironic)

As for Forrest, Mulgrew, Ledley and Matthews, come on. They'd be average (and have been) in the Championship, so lets not kid yourself you'll be selling them on for much.

Celtic and the SPL are seriously small fry now. It's a fact, and given the fact you accept that one CL appearance in 4 years is an amazing achievement, something you appear to have subconsciously accepted.

Forrest would definetly not be an "average championship player" he's one of the top young talents in Europe according to UEFA and from what i've seen i'd back them up on that. He was being linked to Liverpool and Spurs as a teenager, what tosh you talk sometimes.

I've blocked it again, he's a WUM, it's time we stop trying to converse with someone who has no other intention other than antagonising, I suggest everyone puts him on block, he can't WUM if he can't be seen

super_realist wrote:

JamesLincs wrote:you dont know that. if they get a half decent draw in the group then they can qualify or even get 3rd. the celtic fans will make sure of 3 tough games at celtic park

They'll be like Ireland at the euro's.

woops!

Great performance by Celtic, totally deserved it and what a chance now to at the very least get third in the group. They will fancy their chances at home against Spartak (they have an even worse away record of losing than celtic), not a celtic fan but our game has had such a terrible couple of years that this is a tremendous result. Not many teams would win there, even teams with 10 times the budget. Hooper was tremendous, England could do a helluva lot worse than give him a try.

Kay Fabe wrote:I've blocked it again, he's a WUM, it's time we stop trying to converse with someone who has no other intention other than antagonising, I suggest everyone puts him on block, he can't WUM if he can't be seen

Yeah I know, the guy also comes on and spams the tennis forum from time to time with his BS.

United and Chelsea should both win easily tonight, but you never know with what happened last year.
Great results for Celtic clearly, 4 points from the first two games is more then would they would have imagined- 3rd place in the group it possible.

What an unbelievable result, I truly couldn't see it coming before the game, I did think if we were going to sneak an away result then I thought we could get a draw in Russia.

Gary Hooper was simply phenomonal tonight, what a performance, his best in Europe since he bossed the Udinese defence last December, I also thought Scott Brown was superb, a real leader and Lustig (who I'm hyper critical of) was also excellent, really impressed.

I'll admit though I'm surprised we managed to win when our passing was so poor on so many occassions, just coz I'm in a good mood I'll blame their plastic pitch

It must be love, if we get 3rd and European Football after Christmas it'll be great but as is the nature of the beast, I'm hoping we qualify, the last two times Benfica have been in our group we've managed to qualify

Still, it's early days yet

super_realist will be raging.

What a great result for Celtic! Still a bit of life in Scottish football eh!

ive been saying since i first saw hooper, he is a fantastic finisher, world class imo and he will soon be snapped up by a top european club or atleast a top 7 side in england for over £10 million

Agreed, the problem is these days teams really look down on Scottish football but usually the ones who actually take a gamble are rewarded handsomely. Fletcher and Jelavic particularily i'm thinking of.

Jelavic was an absolute steal at £5m, if Rangers were in any sort of financial position then they could have got double that, Hooper won't be sold for less than £10m, he scores big goals in big games

He's at the right club just now, he still has a bit of his game to work on and his all round fitness could be a little better, still, another year or two up here then off to the Premiership for big money and we do it all again with someone else, unfortunately that's the way we have to make money up here, buy them young and sell them on at a profit

Dortmund could quite easily have scored 4 or 5 tonight had Joe Hart not brought his A game. City already have a monumental task getting out of this group after only two games.

6 points probably vital vs Ajax now

You do wonder about Mancini. Inter making no headway in the CL under him played a part in his sacking

Couldn't believe Dortmund didn't see that out, they where head and shoulders above City in every department, major point though, going 6 behind and still needing to go to Germany would have been a big ask

He's a bit of a fish out of water at this level by the looks of it. They were awful tonight. A draw was an injustice.

Mancini is a tube of the highest order and when he has any actual managing to do makes a complete mess of it.

I'd like see how Fergie would have handled a team like Dortmund Ent or more than likely avoid being humiliated!

They are much better than Spurs you know!

The biggest job for managers at a top club is managing egos. City have more than a few ****holes, but Mancini seems to have molded them into a unit. Even Tevez is in shape.

I think the problem is that it's hard to adjust from Premier League to Champions League for teams without experience of it, a lot of City's players have never played for the top team in the country so won't have experienced the different way you have to approach games.

In the Premier League, the players know that they are a feared team, sides will approach them in the same way. In the Champions League, teams like Real Madrid are bigger, or teams like Dortmund or Napoli are certainly on level or just below the level of City so can feel free to attack them.

super_realist. would you like any sauces with your words??

Such a shame for Celtic, 40 seconds left then that. I'll tell you something though Celtic are far from a pot 4 team, they don't get much respect from recent European campaigns but i see them as no worse than middle order of the champions league teams. They still have every chance of second, good performance tonight.

Really proud of the Bhoys tonight, this whole European Campaign reads like played 7 won 5 drawn 1 lost 1, that one loss being in the dying seconds at the Camp Nou, we're a young team with plenty of potential, while I doubt we'll scare anyone I'd like to think we've got a bit of respect back

Man City are being ripped apart here. Embarrassing.

At this rate, they'll struggle to even get Europa League.

I can see Mancini getting sacked at the end of this year. Guardiola or Mourinho to replace him.

Man City

They're just a pure embarrassment, especially Mancini who is so so negative. He seems to have played for a draw in all 3 Champions League games so far. Couldn't have happened to a more plastic club. Thursday nights, Channel 5? Nope, they'll finish bottom of the group!

There's only so much blame Mancini can take, these guys are all on atleast 100 thousand a week and their performances are utterly disgraceful. They were completely outplayed by a team of great tradition who play football the right way and obviously play for each other, you have to question City's signing's in the summer they bought a couple of completely overpriced squad players and didn't add the strength in the areas needed.

Bad result for Arsenal to, but they will still qualify though it could well be in second.

"Dutch football is not up to much. English League is the best in the World innit? How did that happen? "(c) Terry Venables.


Ultimate mass disillusionment, fed by SKY.

Man City - English Champions squad cost? A Billion plus change?
AJAX squad? 90% AJAX bred and for nowt.

When will they ever learn? Bless.

.

It's the best in terms of excitement just ahead of the Bundesliga but its certainly not the best in terms of quality and skill. There's world class playing in England but the really really top ones over the years tend to play in La Liga or Serie A. Venables is a complete tool, " ingurlund are virtually unbeatable if da great wooney is in da side".

Kay Fabe wrote:Really proud of the Bhoys tonight, this whole European Campaign reads like played 7 won 5 drawn 1 lost 1, that one loss being in the dying seconds at the Camp Nou, we're a young team with plenty of potential, while I doubt we'll scare anyone I'd like to think we've got a bit of respect back

Well said Kay. Im a Tic of old. But, lets be honest man., with such a weak league (less The Hun - is bad for us) there is no way the club will ever reach its Larsson or Jinky days again.

Sad. But true.

They scared de shoite out of Barca though. A draw would have been sublime, but they did themselves proud.

Hail Hail.

monty junior wrote:It's the best in terms of excitement just ahead of the Bundesliga but its certainly not the best in terms of quality and skill. There's world class playing in England but the really really top ones over the years tend to play in La Liga or Serie A. Venables is a complete tool, " ingurlund are virtually unbeatable if da great wooney is in da side".

Oh dear. The Barclays Premier League is still the best in the World, only a fool would question it. The record of English clubs in the Champions League speaks for itself.

Duty281 wrote:Oh dear. The Barclays Premier League is still the best in the World, only a fool would question it. The record of English clubs in the Champions League speaks for itself.

Duty, with due respect an ting... I seem to remember we discussed this before. My comments then, stand even stronger now. The English Prem, is chock-full of overpaid foreigner mercenaries and is massively overrated. Its a rich Brand game, run by Yank & Russian Oligarchs. Supported & funded by disillusioned eejits. Whose National team, is suffering badly because of it.

Arsenal shaaged at home, by Clogs playing for Germans. City hammered away v a weak Dutch side, from a weak Dutch League. Mega-rich, non-English Chelski - beaten by Shakhtar.

3 Billion disillusioned pounds... put in its place by a few bob. Can you see a pattern here?

Maybe the standard of the Bundesliga is a lot higher than people give it credit for. I think Dortmund would win the EPL.

Gibson wrote:

Duty281 wrote:Oh dear. The Barclays Premier League is still the best in the World, only a fool would question it. The record of English clubs in the Champions League speaks for itself.

Duty, with due respect an ting... I seem to remember we discussed this before. My comments then, stand even stronger now. The English Prem, is chock-full of overpaid foreigner mercenaries and is massively overrated. Its a rich Brand game, run by Yank & Russian Oligarchs. Supported & funded by disillusioned eejits. Whose National team, is suffering badly because of it.

Arsenal shaaged at home, by Clogs playing for Germans. City hammered away v a weak Dutch side, from a weak Dutch League. Mega-rich, non-English Chelski - beaten by Shakhtar.

3 Billion disillusioned pounds... put in its place by a few bob. Can you see a pattern here?

So should just 1 week of games take away everything the English clubs have achieved since 2005? Of course they shouldn't. Looking at the bigger picture, United, Arsenal and Chelsea should all make the quarters - no other European League will have 3 quarter-finalists.