Death of the Face?

Just an idea I have been having recently whilst watching WWE programming, I seem to be noticing a huge lack in the face market and wonder where on earth this is going to change for WWE.

On this forum alone when asked about the stars of the future you hear names like Dolph Ziggler, Cody Rhodes, The Miz, Dean Ambrose (to appease Hero), Wade Barrett,Damien Sandow and yet every single one of these men is a proven heel and a very good one at that, in my opinion.

You don't often hear people saying "Justin Gabriel.....Tyson Kidd, they'll be big fan favorites soon enough". Sure they are talented, but when you switch on your tv to watch Raw or Smackdown, do you really want these guys to win?.

John Cena is the face of WWE (that is a given) and up until recently CM Punk was a top face as well which is absolutely fine because we need plenty of faces to combat the list of growing heel stars. Randy Orton is a decent face but most people prefer him as a heel, and to be honest Sheamus is becoming more and more annoying as a good guy as the weeks go on.

My question is, do the WWE actually know how to make a face star anymore?

Being a heel and turning someone heel is a tried and tested measure that very rarely doesn't pay off. You look at WWE's roster and there is an abundance of heels, many of which are still going to be around in the next 5-10 years.

But then you look at the faces of the company, and besides Cena, Orton and Sheamus, who else is there?

And I don't mean guys that necessarily compete in the main event, I mean up and down the card there is a legitimate lack of believable good guys that get the crowd on their side.

I don't mean kids on their side, I mean the crowd as a whole.

Then I thought, are we as fans just as much to blame as the WWE for our lack of support?

Alot of people jumped on the Zach Ryder bandwagon last year. Said he deserved a shot at the limelight. WWE delivered it and he won the US Championship, then everyone complained that he was becoming annoying. Was it our own fickle ways or was he rammed down our throats too much?.Should WWE have slowly developed him into something important, or were the fans just not buying into it?

I have to be honest, wrestling crowds now are ridiculously poor and I think they have a part to play on how a character is perceived, which just does not happen anymore. It has become cool to cheer a heel, no longer do we find ourselves really hoping to see a shining face character come through and fight off the bad guys.

But why?

This is supposed to be "sports entertainment" and for every good heel, we need a good face because that is exactly what builds a feud and rivalries that we never forget.

The Miz is the Intercontinental Champion, Antonio Cesaro is the United States Champion and who I ask are going to be the men that challenge them and really get the crowd on their side?. WWE isn't even building midcard face talent and now more than ever their lack of depth is showing through.

Santino is a joke (and an ageing joke at that), Brodus Clay is a fat dancer who cannot wrestler very well and the whole gimmick is not made for a feud. Ryback is a decent character but built around the same mould as Goldberg and nobody got a rub from that either.

Kofi Kingston is a decent character and one of the only guys I actively want to see win as a face, but he is locked up in the tag team division right now and to be honest that is a good thing because we need some tag teams to keep that division growing.

R-Truth is of course the other tag team champion but he is pushing 40 now and no way is he going to be around for a whole lot longer.Rey Mysterio is one more blown knee away from retirement and Sin Cara is one of the most woeful botch machines I have ever seen.

Christian is another good example, whilst he is very able in the ring and I am a fan of his, he isn't getting any younger. He is used as cannon fodder for the "main event" now and isn't even deemed to be a threat to anyone. This isn't how a "face" should be treated, a former world champion "face" at that.

I mean who else is there?. Who do you as a fan want to see win matches when you watch Raw and Smackdown every week?.Because I imagine the list is quite short, WWE just does not make us invest in the characters anymore, most of us really don't care and there lies in the problem.

I look at NXT and Seth Rollins could be a very big face character in WWE, Bo Dallas perhaps is another one. But even at development level most of the standout stars are heels. And I know everyone says that all that can change, Rock was a heel, Austin was a heel and look at them now. But the fact is they were developed as such and turned when the time was right,I am not so sure WWE even knows how to pull that off anymore.

I watch TNA and I like Aj Styles, Kurt Angle, Jeff Hardy,Austin Aries, James Storm because they are developed characters that combat "heels" but with their own unique style. They aren't all macho, superman types but they are perceived as the "good guys". I have admiration for their heels, Bobby Roode, Kaz,Daniels etc but in most cases the wrestling fan within me is happy to see a "face" come out on top in a battle.

Look back through WWE eras and the face characters they had: MVP,Shelton Benjamin,Dlo Brown, Scotty Too Hotty,Rhyno,Jeff Hardy,Marty Jannetty,Crash Holly,Matt Hardy,Jake Roberts,Davey Boy Smith and the list goes on.Most of those guys never got anywhere near the main event but when they performed in the midcard, the fans wanted to see them win because their characters were developed and actually meant something.

There aren't enough storylines anymore, everything develops too quickly without thought or indication of the future. In a couple of years time WWE could find themselves in some trouble, apart from their main event scene their product is already becoming stale now.

For me personally, one man who should turn face is Jack Swagger. Have him take a few weeks off, come back as the all-american, colleagiate wrestling machine and go after Cesaro and the US Championship. I think Swagger could be a believable face and one that the crowd supported.

Maybe I am way off the mark, maybe everyone thinks that WWE is going in the right direction but it will be interesting to hear what others think.

Who are your favorite stars in WWE now?.Do you find yourself really cheering people on when they are in matches?.Who do you see as the big faces of the company in the next 5 years?

I'm very surprised they've never gone down the route with Swagger as I agree he would be a fantastic face in the patriotic flag bearing way. With the election in the States coming up the country does tend to go through a surge of patriotism and Swagger is rumoured to be undergoing a push soon so it might be something that they look at.
One of the big issues for faces over heels is the depth of character, for heels it's easy, they have a motivation or weakness that sets them apart, delusions of grandeur, God Complex, paranoia etx. Whilst Faces have to act for the most part 2D, they have their paladinesque code of right & wrong that they abide by and that often then detracts from fleshing out the character.

Excellent article, Triple J.

I don't have alot of time for the product any more, but i believe the lack of faces and the lack of an creative direction for new ones can be attributed to one man........John Cena.

Before people think it's a predictable answer, there is a valid reason. See, every credible Heel that manhandles his way to the top of the roster is quickly dispatched and taken care of by Big John. There are no chances for the newer, younger guys to make a name for themselves.

For me, and probably a fair few others, the biggest trick WWE made was not turning Cena heel and letting Punk go over him. It would've been a money making game changer. Punk; the little guy, the man from obscurity would've finally gotten over Cena and allowed a wave of new talent to make names for themselves. Instead we've had Punk turn heel, with Cena giving the usual schtick about doing it for the fans and stuff. And the problem is Punk isn't even the biggest heel in the business. Cena already dispatched him (Lesnar) in his first match back.

Who is really gonna get a rub from Punk unless he does something drastic.

As for the faces that have been pushed, they are either misused, rammed down our throats or used as foils for other storylines (see Ryder).

Why aren't there any faces? Because WWE wont let them be themselves! They have nowhere near as much freedom that is afforded to heels which is a joke. You look at the the greatest faces like The Rock, Austin, Hogan etc, they were just being an extension of themselves, they were just as cool and funny as the heels they were going up against.

The only real future face star I can see right now is The Miz and that is just woeful considering this is suppose to be the leading wrestling company.

It's much easier to push a heel to main event status because it's more believable. There has to be a reason, realistically, for somebody to make the jump from languishing in the mid-card for years to suddenly be able to compete with the very best.

A heel can trick and cheat his way to the top, it's a bit harder and more effort to push a face to the top.

WWE will probably stick to pushing people up as heels then turning them face once they get there.

I understand what your saying Hero but surely now is the time to invest more heavily in faces?

Even if you look at WWE's partnership with Be a Star, who in WWE is promoting that?.

John Cena and who else?.Surely if WWE is promoting good guys then there should be a damn sight more of them on the screen, in a believable fashion.

Faces don't just have to be one dimensional "good vs evil", they can be all manner of things. Fighting for different reasons, or because of the backgrounds they have come from.Maybe they are just a bada55 like Austin was but targetting heel characters.

WWE just don't put enough effort in. And whilst I agree it's not directly Cena's fault, it is because of him that it is happening. Because every big time heel must be reserved for him, so that he can conquer yet another obstacle.

I never thought I would say this but WWE really is losing its appeal.

I don't buy that it's not "believable" to push a face from the midcard to main event status.

With all WWE's ties to anti-bullying etc, it's like saying that a good person can't get to the top, you should just shaft everyone over instead. Not a great message to be sending out.

Why can't, for example, a face be down on his luck and then decide he needs to train harder?.Or enlist the help of a former great to help him reach his potential?

I don't agree that it's not believable, I just think it boils down to laziness and the fact WWE prefers their little quick fixes instead.

I'm not saying it's not believable, I'm saying it's more difficult to create a believable reason for the rise of a face than it is for the rise of a heel. I agree that WWE only want to do short quick fixes.

If you have a guy that's just a damn good wrestler, and continually beats his opponents without cheating, and occasionally has to overcome a naughty heel... surely he would become a face pretty quickly, right?

Absolutely.

Same thing was done with Kurt Angle and that guy, can't seem to remember his name but think he won the world title at WM XX from HHH and HBK in a triple threat match.

That down the line could be Daniel Bryan, the awesome wrestler that just whoops some a55 because he can.

Sometimes a straight up wrestler will draw all the respect in the world, because quite simply they are a good performer.

We discussed this on the podcast briefly (podcast plug plug etc) and really there is no popular face with an older audience. They have pushed Sheamus to be Smackdown's Cena, and he does seem popular with the Be A Star and kiddy audience, but their faces are so cheesy, its almost as if theyve given up targeting 'goodies' at an older audience. Zack Ryder, Kofi, Sheamus, Cena are all names that have child friendly gimmicks. The humour comes from heels, and an older audience appreciates that humour more usually.

Arguably, the two most popular wrestlers in WWE for an older audience are Punk n Bryan, who are both meant to be heels, but both are still encouraged to get a pop from a certain aspects of the crowd. Bryan still has the humour, whilst Punk still went out and played to the Chicago crowd.

JJJohnson wrote:
Same thing was done with Kurt Angle and that guy, can't seem to remember his name but think he won the world title at WM XX from HHH and HBK in a triple threat match.

Jesse Ventura!

Jesse Ventura, that is the guy.

I agree that Punk and Bryan are the guys that we as fans are looking for to be our faces. They are believable in the fact that they can lose a match, but they also love a good fight and are very good technically in the ring.I honestly believe WWE should be focusing on these guys as faces instead of heels.Bryan could be a slow burner, earning the fans respect back through some brilliant performances in the ring.

For me though there isn't enough of those types of guys though. Cheesy gimmicks are definitely stunting the development.

For me the one man who could make a really good face is The Miz. He's got fantastic mic skills, and in fairness he got a pretty decent pop when he returned. I think he has all the neccessary attributes to be a very good face, and his character has been more tweenerish since his return.

I think Beer mentioned it earlier on, a huge problem is Cena. He's gone over every heel in the company, it then takes a hell of a lot to build those heels back up to that stature where it makes a difference a new face going over them rather than someone doing something that Cena has already accomplished.

Mat wrote:For me the one man who could make a really good face is The Miz. He's got fantastic mic skills, and in fairness he got a pretty decent pop when he returned. I think he has all the neccessary attributes to be a very good face, and his character has been more tweenerish since his return.

I think Beer mentioned it earlier on, a huge problem is Cena. He's gone over every heel in the company, it then takes a hell of a lot to build those heels back up to that stature where it makes a difference a new face going over them rather than someone doing something that Cena has already accomplished.

The WWE need us Mat.

fantastic article

Miz is "awesome" in my opinion.Face or heel he actually combines a fair few skills for me. He can wrestle, not the greatest but doesn't really matter, mic skills are brilliant and he looks like a star.

He was very good on commentary the other night as well, I expect him to be around at the top for a long time.

Building heels is a whole different thread, I mean a successful heel because WWE aren't the greatest at doing that either.

HHH,HBK,Taker and Cena all did pretty well at ruining the rise of so many heels in the last 5/6 years.

Corporate Beer wrote:

Mat wrote:For me the one man who could make a really good face is The Miz. He's got fantastic mic skills, and in fairness he got a pretty decent pop when he returned. I think he has all the neccessary attributes to be a very good face, and his character has been more tweenerish since his return.

I think Beer mentioned it earlier on, a huge problem is Cena. He's gone over every heel in the company, it then takes a hell of a lot to build those heels back up to that stature where it makes a difference a new face going over them rather than someone doing something that Cena has already accomplished.

The WWE need us Mat.

Give us 3 months and we'd have sorted that mess out!

Mat wrote:

Corporate Beer wrote:

Mat wrote:For me the one man who could make a really good face is The Miz. He's got fantastic mic skills, and in fairness he got a pretty decent pop when he returned. I think he has all the neccessary attributes to be a very good face, and his character has been more tweenerish since his return.

I think Beer mentioned it earlier on, a huge problem is Cena. He's gone over every heel in the company, it then takes a hell of a lot to build those heels back up to that stature where it makes a difference a new face going over them rather than someone doing something that Cena has already accomplished.

The WWE need us Mat.

Give us 3 months and we'd have sorted that mess out!

I just hope Will Young is ready to Debut as his alter ego!

JJJohnson wrote:Miz is "awesome" in my opinion.Face or heel he actually combines a fair few skills for me. He can wrestle, not the greatest but doesn't really matter, mic skills are brilliant and he looks like a star.

He was very good on commentary the other night as well, I expect him to be around at the top for a long time.

Building heels is a whole different thread, I mean a successful heel because WWE aren't the greatest at doing that either.

HHH,HBK,Taker and Cena all did pretty well at ruining the rise of so many heels in the last 5/6 years.

Yeah don't get me started on the heel thing. I appreciate there has to be some sort of payback in terms of a face eventually going over this heel, but the way WWE go about things is completely wrong. All of the heel champions in recent times have had to settle for screwy wins, I think there's nothing wrong with Heels going over clean.

And Beer-

So far we The Miz and Jack Swagger as potential candidates for decent face characters in the next 5 years.

Obviously WWE can make some signings, the landscape could change and things could get better but it really is a poor testament that there is not more than that.

I think Tyson Kidd could be a good face at IC/US level if pushed correctly, but then again the Hart Foundation should never have been broken up. Would have allowed Kidd to develop at a steadier pace.

Then you begin to scrape the barrel slightly.

As far as I can tell there is only 3 man event faces right now; Cena, Orton and Sheamus.

Its much easier to build a heel, you can make people hate you but you cant make them like you, they either will or wont.

I think a big problem with the WWE is after Brock Lesnar was pushed to the moon and back, they're afraid to invest any real time anymore. JJJ named a handful of guys with enough talent that a well written push wouldnt be out of place.

I believe the last person to get a really solid believable push was Jeff Hardy. Watching him come so close each time made him finally winning the big one brilliant. I still remember that night at Armageddon fondly.

The WWE is just an absolute mess right now. It needs a mass clearout and start again.

This is exactly what we talked about on the podcast last night (part 3)

I think its a bigger problem than just "where are the faces " but. Problem of what has happened to the midcard.

Would love to get your views of what we talked about in part 3 of the podcast

The issue is that the WWE struggles to book cool, believable and beatable faces. They are either kid friendly dorks, dull and smiley or unbeatable... none of which are a recipe for an interesting character. Orton and Sheamus are great examples of good heels who are boring as faces and not because they can't play faces but because their character suck.

Because of the trend towards cowardly weak heels, the face has to be booked massively over them and so it is hard to have a strong mid card face without them naturally being at main event level because they are overbooked compared to the main event heels.

The thing for me is not who but why.
Create a reasoning for a wrestler to act in a certain manner and for the most part and with a little charisma any wrestler could do it.
Faces though struggle to have these reasons that make them interesting due to the very fact that the characters they portray are the norm.
A heel is a heel because he does something different to what is considered the norm, he plays the character which is perceived as evil because evil is different from what the majority consider normal. He has motives or performs deeds that considered outside of what others would accept.
Yet a face performs within this comfort zone, to act outside would be considered not normal and therefore heelish. Faces too are not leaders but followers, they react to what heels do, so whilst heels innovate the faces simply then follow in their path. Once enough faces have followed then its considered the norm and the process begins again.
the Attitude Era changed this dynamic, then the faces were given the freedom to portray characters from outside the confines of what constitutes the norm, they were heel in every aspect but that they were cheered.

Part of the problem for me is the fact that there is so much TV airtime to be filled now. I've said it before, but I solidly believe there are too many PPV's. They should never have switched Raw to 3 hours every week unless they planned to give the midcard more time - instead they waste it on repeating things that happened 3 minutes ago, just before the break. The amount of airtime means they have to try and keep people hooked. We're in a social media world - twitter, WWE online, the various shows - they all need content. If they can get away with playing it easy, they will. If that means feeding another promising heel (who could later turn face) to the Superman - they will. If that means getting a cheap heel turn from an upcoming face - they will.

I'm not sure I would accept the "cheesy" gimmicks as a valid excuse either - when I was growing up it was all about cheese. It is good vs bad and that is always going to have an element of cheese about it. But the fact that we weren't seeing the Hulk Hogans and Randy Savages of the world on screen every week or, as in some cases, twice per week (Sheamus, ADR etc) meant it wasn't so over played.

We've had to watch Cena crush heels on Raw, PPV and on his occasional SD appearances consistently for years.

There is talent out there and some of them could make great faces if given the proper backing. Swagger is one I've seen mentioned on here for a long time. I agree that they should package him as a new Angle. Ziggler could be a broken away from Vicky and turned in to a new HBK. I would agree that Tyson Kid is a good shout for US title level.

The talent is there - the writers/bookers just need to sit back and recognise it.

Tyson Kidd was the star performer at the smackdown money in the bank match and made the match one of the matches of the year therefore deserves a lot of credit. Im a big Tyson Kidd fan but him as top level champion really?

This is where they need the crusaweight championship as it gives the guys the start from rock bottom to work there why up to mid card all the way to the top if they have what it takes of course.

WWE missed a trick when Ziggler and Swagger seperated from their mini stable with Vickie. They could have had a really good fued between the 2 that could have lasted a few PPV's with Ziggler winning MITB at that time to progress the fued. During this time Swagger could have been cemented as a realistic and believable upper mid card face I believe.

As others have said you could have Swagger just go back to pure wrestling and winning matches honestly, stick him against someone for the US title and play up his all american attributes by having a long US title reign.

I also think this would have pushed Ziggler higher as well. As only recently has he had much to face in terms of Jericho and Orton.