All Blacks for Argentina.

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Dagg
Jane
C.Smith
Nonu
Savea
Carter
A.Smith
Read
McCaw(c)
Vito
Retallick
Romano
O.Franks
Mealamu
Woodcock

Bench:
Hore
Charlie Faumuina
Whitelock
Messam
Weepu
Cruden
B.Smith.


Faumuina to make his All Black debut.

Conrad Smith, what a player!

ABs clicking into gear but Argie are defending exceptionally well.

ABs just scored.

I thought Albacete shouldve won the penalty a bit earlier that wouldve led to Argy attacking, instead it led to the yellow, shame but he had to kill the move or it was try time anyway!

Good try. More patience is doing this. Much more accuracy.

Ah crud

Finally ABs make the extra player count.

After all the derogatory reports written about Argentina before the 4Ns started in some SH media outlets I hope some humble pie is being eaten.

mckay1402 wrote:Very poor yellow in my opinion.

Really, looked the perfect call to me? Were you looking for the pen try too?

eating it now...yummm

Taylorman wrote:eating it now...yummm

Excellent news


You feel NZ should pull away a little now, but I doubt they are looking forward to the trip to Argentina.

Sensational pass there.

Fitness has now told

rainbow-warrior wrote:

Biltong wrote:keep it civil boys

Will do Biltong, just don't like being insulted by a <insult removed >

RW, apologising for an insult and carrying on the name calling is rather petty. Lay off.

Squint feed to the scrum called? Jeebus that's a rarity! Why that one and not any of the others tho?

Because he only just remembered the rule

By the way Wellingtonians make better lattes than Aucklanders anyway

As in the QF the 60th minute is when we got on top and dominated. Trouble is we've been so inaccurate that those last 20 may not have been enough to wipe a deficit in other games. What surprised me was that Argentina still faded despite having an extra 20 mins of rest.

We did ok in that the conditions and the extended break favoured the visitors. But still a hell of a lot to work on.

Conditions first half were very NZ favourable, the 20 minute break allowed the conditions to die down and from 10 mins into the 2nd half Argy had very little favour from the conditions!!!

The lull after the 60 generally seems to be the bench from Argy, the quality just isn't there and when the starters run out of puff they are replaced by inferior players.

For me first half Argy were near dominant up front, and at half time NZ's wheels were all but off, if the weather had stayed strong I think Argies wouldve put more points on the board.

How can you say that the conditions favoured NZ in the 1st half Bluesman? NZ play a continuity based game that required high ball skills and that will be diminished by inclement weather.

Good match. Gave Hansen something to work on. The yellow didnt help argie and thats when we scored but at least we were able to fix that first half quickly enough. The silly passes went without stemming the flow, the patience was there and the attacks straighter.

No taking it away from the Argies and it does put SA's draw into perspective a little more with Oz and us due to go there. Had argie managed to get up it would have blown this tournament wide open.

Not a good sign for the NH sides either with Argie more than likely to make it the SH top 4 within a year or two.

Well done Argie, good luck Oz and SA tonight.

NZ had a gale blowing in from behind them, everytime they put boot to ball it went 80 yards, in comparison a number of kicks/up and unders came back to it's original spot or was taken away from Argies.

If NZ don't have the nous to divert from the gameplan it doesn't mean the weather was unfavourable, it means NZ's mindset to the weather was unfavourable.

ZArgies game plan revolves around a strong kick chase game, so in that instance the weather was just as unfavourable to their usual gameplan than the kiwi's who had the much better of the wind and rain over the 80.

Taylorman

If Argie take points from narrow losses and draws from the others SH sides it also means the SH sides lose points, so Argies gains will be nuetralised by Sanzar teams losses, meaning the 6N teams stand a better chance of reaching the top spots as much as Argies have a chance at 3rd!!

I think there is a mindset underneath the Argie team that they really rely on momentum. Italy are the same.

For example: The Pumas tails were up when they were making those huge tackles putting big players on their a$$es. When their scrum one a penalty. When they got the try. All of those things really give them a boost and inspires them to go and do it again or something similar.

I find that when they work for something and then get turned over it has a huge effect on them.

For instance not getting that kick in the second half, you could see that heads went down. They had to work hard to get there and then to come away with nothing and then the level of intensity dropped.

If they had got that kick I think the Argies could have gone on and pushed the AB's very close.

Well if that were the case it would be happening with the third side already. My point is the experience and exposure here to these teams will mean the argie matches vs NH sides will start to go more and more in their favour, as theyll be of a higher standard.

Not necasarily, the next generation of Argies may be flops due to their junior system not being top notch, or maybe they take over the rugby championship alltogether.

Either way the Allblacks generallydominate the world rankings and Aus/SA take it in turns to lose/gain the 3rd spot. The tri nations favours ranking points because there are so few teams, the more teams it introduces the more it will struggle to dominate ranking points.

SA for example will have taken a hit in points because of the draw, and if they and Aus struggle for results in the AI's of which I can see in Aus's case then 3rd spot could come up north, and stay up north throughout next seasons 6N.

In the game that I watched the All Blacks were always going to win, it was just a question as to whether it would take 60,65 or 70 minutes to break Argentina down.
Argentina played with passion and hit hard in defense and for that they should be applauded, however by the time Liam Messam and Andrew Hore turned up the frequency which the ABs were getting to the outside fringes, the Argentinian pack had to all of sudden cover a lot more ground and from then on they were never going to score points.

Always going to win? At half time they weren't in the game despite such a huge wind behind them.

Argy carved out the better chances first half but made mistakes, it was only after the weather died down and the Argies emptied their bench that the all blacks were able to go wider and intensify.

I agree NZ were never in that much trouble, but they were on the back foot at half time and that 20 minute break really helped them when it came to the weather dying down.

Mind you I was surprised to see roncero and co come off at the same time he always does, with the extra rest I thought he could've gone an extra 10/15

well one of the argies commented that at the same time the yellow was given they were tiring, and couldnt cover the close in stuff as well as when the abs went wide.start of the second there was less 50/50 passes and it looked from there.

I was talking about the game that I watched, I dont know what game you saw, To say that they werent in the game at half time probably even implies that they werent even leading on the scoreboard, which just isnt true.
Both teams made mistakes in the first half, but I dont see how anyone could say that Argentina carved out better chances, let alone cashed in on their chances. however the gamer is played over 70 minutes not 40, and to that end it was just a matter of when.

As I said above, the All Blacks were always going to win that game tonight.

yeah I wasnt comfortable till about the fifty minute mark. Wasnt terribly concerned at any point.

Well done Argentina. Thought their close in defence at times was brutal. Just got back and kids are in bed. I'm left with a feeling that the jury is out both on Argentina and NZ. Thought Argentina played well and are good enough to beat any of the other teams on their day. Not sure about the AB's. We're good, but beatable. We have to step up to the next level at some point this year if we are going to push on. Next weeks game should be interesting.

You always felt that Argentina needed to get their noses in front at half-time to have a shot, or if not then early in the second half. I feel like if you don't see that you didn't understand the game.

You're not going to outscore the All Blacks in the last twenty or thirty when you're having to work so much harder than them in the first fifty. So you're gonna want to be ahead and make them chase the game.

Up until Rodriguez missed the penalty at 9-5 it was a brilliantly brave, courageous display to really make the All Blacks sweat. After that, New Zealand essentially controlled the game and it was just a matter of whether or not they were clinical enough to make it safe. They were.

What a torrid, physical game. Well played Argentina tonight I thought defence in particular was magnificent and they didn't concede an inch for most of the game. NZ will look back and probably see that they tried to force the game in the first half in the face of stubborn resolute defence but stepped up after the 50 min mark.

I can see Argentina posing more trouble at home, and to be honest I can see them beating either NZ or Aus, but would almost certainly pick an Arg win v Aus.

Well done on a credible performance so far Argentina, and well done NZ for toughing it out to claim victory like the champion side they are

So Argentina didn't make 3/4 critical errors in NZ's 22 in the first half?

Was Argys maul not totally dominant? If the 2 lineouts a few metres out had been taken clean I'd have put money on them scoring tries!

Like I said NZ always had the capability to open up, but they were lucky with the weather 2nd half and Argys bench always struggle to make an impact, they tend to fall out of games.

Notch is right when he said Argy needed to get ahead, sadly for them the pens missed and the weather agree'd with NZ.
You also make a good point about Rodriguez missed penalty, seemed to deflate Argy, not that the crowd helped any. I find it funny how the commentators called the Argy crowd uneducated in the ways of rugby for whistling the kicker when the NZ fans were much worse!!

thebluesmancometh wrote:Always going to win? At half time they weren't in the game despite such a huge wind behind them.

Have to admit that's a good one. Perhaps an AB lead of 1 translates to not being in the game given their usual expectation. One of the AB strengths is to keep sucking in the opposition all match until they can't cover both the short channel and out wide. The two wide passes to jane summed that up. Despite the massive argie onslaught the key difference is when they need to pull them out of the bag the usually do.

C. Smiths layup for nonu/ Savea was classic smith.

SA next week and they appeared to be injury free. Just can't understand all that kicking. Both sides kept doing it. One lead to habanas try but as a primary tactic its a bit hit or miss. Next week will be indoors so better conditions for taking the high ball and running it back so I wonder if SA will do the same.

Yes, Conrad smith drew all three defenders to set up that try, an example of a classic centre at work.

Having just watched both matches,Argentina played a sensible game in the conditions.The experience in there side showed The All Blacks tried to play there normal game despite the conditions.[In the first half]The Lineout went well for them.The Scrums were a joke constant resets/penalties/freekicks.Pumas insdiscipline in normal conditions would have cost them 15-18 points in the first twenty minutes.Second half AllBlacks adapted there game,Messam on for the
ineffective Vito.Disagree with Fitzy Mc Caw was every where in both halves,saw little of Retalick but he was no doubt doing the grunt stuf.Romano was awesome he plus Whitelock would be my starting locks.Aron Smith had a mare and Crudon was no more than solid,But Conrad Smith,Nonu and the Hurricanes mafia turned the game.The Yellow was correct a deliberate professional foul even maybe a penalty try.The turning point was when Piri Weepu came on the old Hurricanes back division less Isreal Dagg.He had the experence and the game to get the AB`s in the position to score.Apart from that the rest of the bench was just run ons.Playing at high speed for much of the game tired the older Pumas out they were struggling in the last 20.The Pumas in any conditions are notoriously hard to score trys against two in those conditions is a good result.More important no matter how a win is a win.
Boks versus the Wallabies,Boks lineout went well,scrum was decidely iffy kicked to much until last 10.Oz some very strange tactics Lineout had problems,a lot more injuries .Suicidal keep running the ball out of there own 22,and indifferent kicking game.Kept up the running game well but some of the execution was poor.Habana how badly is he injured?Genia looks out for awhile,next week is crunch time in Dunedin under the closed roof.Pity Oz could`nt have denied them a bonus point.

In the conditions cruden especially and smith were fine. It was crudens long left handed pass to jane that kicked them clear. Retalick was excellent I thought and his rise is nothing short of meteoric having played first xv rugby as recently as 2009. Point is we have 3 top locks and have now sufficiently replaced thorn enough to go forward with.

In one year we've now filled thre positions last year we were struggling with- 9, 10 and lock. We still need a consistent left wing and messam is starting to fill kainos gap.

12 is now a concern. Nonu is the only permanent and I thought ellison would have been developed by now.

Compared to oz and SA we certainly can't moan.

I think the answer is obviously no. Don't get me wrong Argentina played well and were well in it at half time. But to say the AB's weren't in it is over the top. The AB's had the advantage of position and possession in the first half. The Ab's spent more time in the opposition 22, but made more errors. To my mind the defence definitely contributed to the AB's errors, but so did the wet ball and option taking. Whilst Argentina was competing well in close and on defense, they were already starting to creak at the set piece and even the maul. The AB's did have the advantage of the wind in the first half, but the fact the wind died in the second wasn't necessarily as big an advantage as you might think. The reality is for all their strengths Argentina was limited on attack. To win they needed to be able to pin the AB's in their own half. That didn't look like it was going to happen today.

The good news for them is they are improving and they are a very real chance in the return fixture. Next weeks game could be interesting given Australia's horror run of injuries. The bad news for us is we probably aren't as good as we hoped we are.

thebluesmancometh wrote:So Argentina didn't make 3/4 critical errors in NZ's 22 in the first half?

Was Argys maul not totally dominant? If the 2 lineouts a few metres out had been taken clean I'd have put money on them scoring tries!

Like I said NZ always had the capability to open up, but they were lucky with the weather 2nd half and Argys bench always struggle to make an impact, they tend to fall out of games.

Notch is right when he said Argy needed to get ahead, sadly for them the pens missed and the weather agree'd with NZ.
You also make a good point about Rodriguez missed penalty, seemed to deflate Argy, not that the crowd helped any. I find it funny how the commentators called the Argy crowd uneducated in the ways of rugby for whistling the kicker when the NZ fans were much worse!!

Carters out for the bok match as well with the same calf strain. So much for the saving him for the bok theory...

I think that was your theory Taylor.

I was at the game and thought that the Argies played very well. Excellent defence hardly missed a tackle. They put a lot of players into the rucks and rattled Smith so he had an average game.

I thought our attack wasn't very interesting though Savea worked fairly hard getting around the park.
Conrad was good but a bit rusty as was Nonu in the first half.

McCaw had a good 2nd half leading by example a few times with ball in hand.

I never felt we were going to lose but it sure was a good tight game.

Laurie raised it. I called it 'interesting'.

I don't mind which of the two we would play.

Was thinking of going as tickets were available last week. Till I heard the forecast. Interesting night.

Did you feel at the time we could lose it.

Sometimes its different at the park.

Ngan
Last night kamo said Argentina missed 17 tackles to the All blacks 5.

A good win for NZ - felt that Argentina made them work very hard for it in the first half, but ultimately class showed thru - real positive for the ABs that they kept their composure thru'out, and in the end it was a comfortable enough win

The unforced changes meant that some of the combinations were`nt there and 9/10 struggled early on.I wonder how much input Ted had regarding revealing AB gameplan and player weaknesses.The Wind unlike at the old Athletic Park does`nt blow straight up and down but has a funnel effect.The AB tactics were naive in the first half,corrected in the second.Game turned on the ability of the Huricanes backline with Piri Weepu orchestrating it .Felt the ABs were never going to lose ,but not the blow out many were expecting.Face facts the Pumas are no Italy,they have many notches on there belt.In fact think stastically the third most successful team in world rugby after aAllBlacks and Boks.The side in the 4Ns is the strongest it has been for years arguably stronger than the RWC side2011.Hope the All Blacks produce on Saturday a win there will seal the 4Ns probably.Tough end of season for ABs two away matches Pumas and Boks are never easy at home.

So we're 13 and 0 now. 495 points to 125 (at 5-1 tries)
Also 35 from last 38 as well...

8 more tests this year makes it a possible 21 and the all time record by a couple.

Lets hope they dont stuff it up again- the two last away matches vs two sides with nothing (tangible) to lose is about as hard as it gets.

Hi Tman,

8 more this year would be a fantastic effort, and not to belittle the effort that the NH teams will put in, its really only SA, Arg and Aus that have a chance to stop us.

As regards the game on Sat night, I think a few AB's fans are being very harsh on the AB's, especially the backline. I said to my mate as soon as the I saw the conditions that they would be a real leveller as difficult handling conditions (not just wet but trying to pass with that kind of wind is tough) would likely mean a tighter game.

I was glad to see however that notwithstanding the conditions, the AB's did still try and use the ball positively and if anything, for me, the scratchy first half was down to a lack of numbers/commitment at the rucks by the AB's forwards and not so much to do with the backs. This resulted in (i) poor protection for Aaron Smith and (ii) too many Argy forwards being allowed to stand in the backline making running difficult. The old adage of having to do the hard yards first before going wide certainly applied in this game and was definitely addressed in the second half.

I know people are saying Cruden and Aaron Smith didn't play well, however I think this was down to some fantastic defensive work from Argentina and also the lack of protected ball at rucks - Vito was a massive failure and does not impose himself physically enough to wear the 6 jersey; Messam made a huge difference when he entered the fray. Also, the Argentinian defenders were allowed to join rucks and come through rucks from the side and even tackle Smith while not staying on their feet.

Frankly, for all that they shut New Zealand down in the first half, Argentina never seriously looked like winning that game and their tactics were based on being negative and disrupting New Zealand (yellow card a prime example - could easily have been a penalty try) rather than really creating anything for themselves. Those tactics will only get you so far and had the conditions been better they would have been royally thumped.

Hi otago, yeah in that weather you have to consider the good with the bad. Didn't think cruden would get that 40 m penalty in that wind even though it was behind him. His pass to jane was excellent so he did get points on the board.

Dunedin will be dry no matter the weather so an interesting contrast. You going along?

I see you're getting woodcock next year...how did joseph work that one in?

The Highlanders forward pack is shaping up. Has Ben Franks been confirmed for the shift yet?

The scoreline flattered NZ but also was an indication of Argentina's enterprise on attack. They must find a way to get into the score zone and tick the scoreboard over. Their spirited defence will keep them in the game but they need that little extra spark on attack to find a way to put teams away. Hopefully that is a trick they can learn because they will be formidable if they can do that.

In saying that, I expect them to be a real tough prospect at home to defeat. The ABs must be smarter in how they counter the wall of passion they will encounter in the away match. The weather didn't help but it was naive to play the game they did in those conditions.

SA will be smarting from a draw and a loss. Meyer will have seen what Goosen adds but will he go into his defensive shell and revert to type? Will he see the Argentina match as a confirmation that only brute strength and aggression will stop the ABs?

Because Argentina did a good containing job for much of the game. But therein lies the problem. If your gameplan is to contain, and you don't throw up much of an attack to tire out your opposition on defence, then eventually you're going to be worn down by the ABs. With aggressive defence you have to offer something else on attack to score points in whichever way you see fit. Because any team is beatable when you're scoring points and ticking the scoreboard over. People rightly pointed out seeing points on the board gives you momentum and three games against NZ in this 4N has seen the ABs largely contained but no pressure placed on them either by keeping the scoreline largely unchanged. A side is only truly rattled when they see they're behind and need to force things. NZ were forcing things on attack to break the deadlock and have been inaccurate on many occasions. Add that inaccuracy when they're behind on the scoreboard and that's where you see the crucial mistakes come that you can capitalise on.

I was still surprised Argentina faded after the extended break. They should have been fit enough to benefit and they'll only get ran around more in La Plata where the weather should be better-so that may cancel out a crowd advantage.

They are one of the very best defensive sides in rugby-no weak shoulders. You saw many ABs driven back when they (and I) expected them to not only go forward but break. But the backs are still easy to defend against and their only chances are rolling mauls and barging over. If teams keep concentration and discipline they are nullified. They are excellent at preventing the field from becoming broken though which is where NZ would kill them no matter the weather.

I reckon NZ will enjoy the indoor stadium on Sat. Lots of running rugby.

I can’t recall who made it but that tackle on Luke Romano when NZ took a quick tap nr the Arg tryline personified the defensive effort. It was a massive hit but credit to, he placed the ball neatly and I think Savea ended up scoring. It was reminiscent of (for those who can remember) watching Manly v Newcastle back in the 90’s when Paul Harrogan and Mark Carroll used to go toe to toe and line each other up from kick off. Awesome stuff!

I hope some NZ provinces are looking at these Puma players. Whether we want to believe it or not, there are Super XV gaps available which need to be plugged by good international players, rather than average ITM Cup players. That’s not to say those ITM players won’t get better but...just look at the Blue’s squad this season.

Just off subject but Woodcock to Otago is interesting. It is implied that he’ll suit up for Otago too (moving his family south) if he is available. They’ve got great front row stocks down there now. Makes me think that Ben Franks will be nailed on for a Wellington or Auckland move now.....Sir JK will be praying he can get him now.

How many times can I use the word “now”!