World Cup Qualifiers Thread, 7th and 8th September

by Duty281 Fri 7 Sep 2012 - 16:02

First topic message reminder :

Russia v Northern Ireland (16:00)
Kazakhstan v Republic of Ireland (17:00)
Moldova v England (19:45)
Wales v Belgium (19:45)
Scotland v Serbia (15:00, Saturday)

Predictions:

Russia 3-1 NI
Kazakhstan 0-3 ROI
Moldova 0-4 England
Wales 1-3 Belgium
Scotland 1-1 Serbia

by Liam Sat 8 Sep 2012 - 17:16

again when you have Mackie and Rhodes on the bench you have to question the team selection from Levein. They have some good players Scotland, I really rate Naismith. It seems they just need to be told to go out there and play with freedom.

by Duty281 Sat 8 Sep 2012 - 17:27

the-gaffer wrote:
Crimey wrote:I would have thought a draw against Serbia is a decent result, Serbia qualified for the last World Cup when Scotland didn't.

I think they're probably booing the way the team plays rather than the actual result.

It's not a decent result, Serbia aren't a good team, that'll be proven over the course of this group, they'll finish 4th/5th, the fans where booing because the scoreline was predictable from well before kick-off, I put two bets on today 0-0 and 1-1, utterly predictable

Poor manager with a poor team selection and when he made his substitutions it was was like for like and far too late in the day to make a real difference

And nor are Scotland. In fact, Serbia are ranked higher than Scotland by FIFA.

by Kay Fabe Sat 8 Sep 2012 - 17:34

Very true, Scotland aren't a great team, that being said I don't let rankings dictate who I believe is better

England are 3rd best team in the World according to the famous ranking system

by **Crimey** Sat 8 Sep 2012 - 17:35

As I pointed, out they also have qualified for a World Cup 3 years ago.

Looking through their squad list they have some decent players, particularly in defence. I wouldn't say Scotland have a much better squad.

by mystiroakey Sat 8 Sep 2012 - 17:37

Rankings are just based on results. You could argue how that is factored. But the top ranked teams rarely lose.

by Duty281 Sat 8 Sep 2012 - 17:38

the-gaffer wrote:Very true, Scotland aren't a great team, that being said I don't let rankings dictate who I believe is better

England are 3rd best team in the World according to the famous ranking system

England have only lost 2 competitive matches since December 2007 though, so I can sort of see how the FIFA rankings calculate them into 3rd. I still don't agree with it though.

by Kay Fabe Sat 8 Sep 2012 - 17:38

FreekShow wrote:Gaff, how long before they cut their losses with Levien?

Personally, as long as he doesn't take a real hammering against anyone I think he'll see out the entire qualifiers

I think we need to be looking at 5 wins 2 draws and 3 losses from the 10 games, I think by the end of the tournament we'll have something like 3 wins 3 draws and 4 losses and I feel that kind of record will be enough to keep him in a job through-out this tournament

by **Crimey** Sat 8 Sep 2012 - 17:42

Do you think Scotland will make it to the World Cup?

by Kay Fabe Sat 8 Sep 2012 - 17:42

Duty281 wrote:
the-gaffer wrote:Very true, Scotland aren't a great team, that being said I don't let rankings dictate who I believe is better

England are 3rd best team in the World according to the famous ranking system

England have only lost 2 competitive matches since December 2007 though, so I can sort of see how the FIFA rankings calculate them into 3rd. I still don't agree with it though.

That's the problem, its the way these things get calculated, listen, these rankings came into play in 1993, in that time England have only ever got to the last 4 of a tournament once and that was the tournament they played every game at their own Stadium, regardless of qualifying results how that then makes them the 3rd best Country in the World is beyond belief

Still, that's a conversation for another day, today was about Scotland and today they didn't win because they where scared, they're always scared under this manager, that's his whole bag, that's what he's all about

by Kay Fabe Sat 8 Sep 2012 - 17:45

Crimey wrote:Do you think Scotland will make it to the World Cup?

I believe we've got the squad that could take us to Brazil, I'm sure the Welsh, Croatians and Serbians think that too, all with good reason, apart from Belgium it's a potentially tight group.

Do I think Scotland will make it? Not under this management

by Thomond Sat 8 Sep 2012 - 17:49

Posted this in the rugby pub but most of it is applicable

Think my earlier comment yesterday pretty much summed it up! Pure tripe, and not good enough. It might be the first time Kazhakstan have lost at home in like 2 years but the performance was pathetic. McGeady is one of the best at beating full backs and getting into good spots, does jack all after that. Glenn Whelan has to be one of the worst players to have amassed nearly 50 caps in a long time. Simon Cox shouldn't be in the team to begin with playing him out of position on the left wing for the second time was possibly the most idiotic thing Trap has done during his tenure. He has one of the better wingers in the premiership in McClean sitting on the bench and a very good one in Pilkington sitting at home. Not playing Seamus Coleman at either right back or right full is a mystery, playing O'Dea and St,.Ledger guys who play in America and the Championship is disgraceful. Move O'Shea to centre, Coleman to right full and pick Clark! Ward is our best LB but that's not saying much. I believe we have some incredibly talented players, the msot we have had in a long time. At present and in the future we will have several extremely good players. I talking the likes of Conor Henderson, Conor Clifford, James McCarthy, Dave Meyler, John Egan, Shane Duffy. As well as plenty of other guys. Trap is not the man to bring this team forward.

He is a symptom of the massvie disease that is the FAI. The worst run organisation in Ireland, don't support their local league at all and pay their CEO 360k a year. 400k until about 3 months ago. They are a disgrace.

Did you see the game? RTE's analysis was superb or at least it was by one person. Brady is blinkered due to his association with Trap. Sadlier may be a bit too dramatic in making his point but he has nailed it here, you don't have to watch all of it but some. He makes some great points.

Spoiler:

by mystiroakey Sat 8 Sep 2012 - 18:04

Ermm.. the gaffer.. rankings are based on results. England rarely lose matchespecially in full time. I suppose you would rather wins and losses be counted on and including extra time and penalty kicks. That's fair enough but probably not as true an indication of quality as the rankings suggest by only applying wins losses and draws in 90 mins.

by **Crimey** Sat 8 Sep 2012 - 18:06

Yes but the problem obviously lies in that a team that is a runner up in a competition may lose more than a team in the group stages ala World Cup 2010 where New Zealand were unbeaten yet were knocked out. Clearly the runner up side is better.

by mystiroakey Sat 8 Sep 2012 - 18:13

The rankings arnt perfect . But it's just the way they are done in all sports. Take England and Wales in the rwc 2011. Wales got to a semi but ended up losing 3 games. England knocked out in the quarters and only lose one game and come of better in the rankings. In football thisIs even more prominent due to full time extra time etc... but at the end of the day rankings are immaterial . However getting into top 8's is very material but being any number between 1 and 8 is almost irrelevant. But very important due to seedings. All the same the top 8 in football deserve it as they dk in rugby as well.

by Kay Fabe Sat 8 Sep 2012 - 18:14

mystiroakey wrote:Ermm.. the gaffer.. rankings are based on results. England rarely lose matchespecially in full time. I suppose you would rather wins and losses be counted on and including extra time and penalty kicks. That's fair enough but probably not as true an indication of quality as the rankings suggest by only applying wins losses and draws in 90 mins.

If Brazil and England had a match tomorrow who do you think would be favourites?

Bearing in mind that England would be the third best side in World football and Brazil arn't even top 10

by mystiroakey Sat 8 Sep 2012 - 18:18

Not sure I get your point mate. Rankings are Based on results not what you or I think. It is there for seeding purposes only.

by mystiroakey Sat 8 Sep 2012 - 18:19

Gaffer start of by not applying rankings with the word best.

by Guest Sat 8 Sep 2012 - 18:21

I would put at least a dozen teams ahead of England. Those rankings need to be taken with one great big dollop of salt.

by **Crimey** Sat 8 Sep 2012 - 18:21

However getting into top 8's is very material but being any number between 1 and 8 is almost irrelevant. But very important due to seedings.

As Ricky Gervais would say... this is the ramblings of a mad man.

by Kay Fabe Sat 8 Sep 2012 - 18:22

Yes but if you don't associate it with being the best then it's simply inaccurate, seeding kills fair sport, ranking teams off the back of friendly results is borderline moronic

by mystiroakey Sat 8 Sep 2012 - 18:23

I think something that is much more relevant would be to discuss why home cup teams automatically get seeded top. Over trying to argue a ranking system because people somehow believe that should equal best. That is nonsense anyway..

by Guest Sat 8 Sep 2012 - 18:23

Crimey wrote:
However getting into top 8's is very material but being any number between 1 and 8 is almost irrelevant. But very important due to seedings.

As Ricky Gervais would say... this is the ramblings of a mad man.

by Kay Fabe Sat 8 Sep 2012 - 18:24

FreekShow wrote:I would put at least a dozen teams ahead of England. Those rankings need to be taken with one great big dollop of salt.

Exactly, that was my point when someone seemed surprised I was disappiointed from not winning against a team simply because that team are ranked higher than Scotland

by mystiroakey Sat 8 Sep 2012 - 18:25

Crimey wrote:
However getting into top 8's is very material but being any number between 1 and 8 is almost irrelevant. But very important due to seedings.

As Ricky Gervais would say... this is the ramblings of a mad man.

I think it's time you got an education and stopped pretending to be a mod. You are a sad wum. Now get a life. Either contribute or get lost.

by Guest Sat 8 Sep 2012 - 18:26

The only flaw with that Myst is he is a mod. No pretending there. Don't bite all the time!

by mystiroakey Sat 8 Sep 2012 - 18:26

the-gaffer wrote:
FreekShow wrote:I would put at least a dozen teams ahead of England. Those rankings need to be taken with one great big dollop of salt.

Exactly, that was my point when someone seemed surprised I was disappiointed from not winning against a team simply because that team are ranked higher than Scotland

Rankings are rankings. That's all. Its a statistical analysis on form based on results. Just remember that.

by Kay Fabe Sat 8 Sep 2012 - 18:28

FreekShow wrote:
Crimey wrote:
However getting into top 8's is very material but being any number between 1 and 8 is almost irrelevant. But very important due to seedings.

As Ricky Gervais would say... this is the ramblings of a mad man.

+1

by mystiroakey Sat 8 Sep 2012 - 18:29

Freek the said poster needs to get a life. I deal with constant rubbish and abuse from him.

by mystiroakey Sat 8 Sep 2012 - 18:30

Well done crimey. Do you feel good about yourself. You have just turned a decent debate into child's play.. plus 100000

by **Crimey** Sat 8 Sep 2012 - 18:34

I have an education, I've just completed my A-levels and am about to start a degree in Law at a top Law School.

I'm also not a mod, I'm an admin. Wink

It's quite hard for anybody to make a contribution in debates when you point-blank refuse to see what they are saying, gaffer isn't saying that the FIFA rankings are wrong, just that they don't mean anything and can't relate to his disappointment at Scotland not beating Serbia.

by mystiroakey Sat 8 Sep 2012 - 18:36

You clearly don't have any comprehension skills crimey. I am adding to debate and admit rankings are flawed. You are just acting up like a spoilt brat again..

by Duty281 Sat 8 Sep 2012 - 18:37

How many games of football have England lost at major tournaments in the last ten years? I believe it is only 3 out of 22. And how many games of football have England lost at the knock-out stages of major tournaments since 1986? I believe it is only 3 out of 15. That's why England get a high ranking.

by Guest Sat 8 Sep 2012 - 18:37

Crimey wrote:

I'm also not a mod, I'm an admin.

You're my favourite Modmin Crimey. You top my rankings. thumbsup

by **Crimey** Sat 8 Sep 2012 - 18:39

Right okay, if you don't like my posts mysti, feel free to report me, or just foe me and then you can ignore my posts and I won't be able to see yours.

Thanks Freek, the cheque is in the post.

by mystiroakey Sat 8 Sep 2012 - 18:40

by mystiroakey Sat 8 Sep 2012 - 18:42

Crimey just start acting like an adult. And everything is fine. Btw I don't care what u say to me. I will just allways tell you what I think about it.

by Guest Sat 8 Sep 2012 - 18:48

Lets all make up peeps. Hug

Here is one for you all:

Wouldn't you just love to see - if only once - an international tournament with an FA Cup style draw? 64 teams with no seedings.

Discuss.

by mystiroakey Sat 8 Sep 2012 - 18:54

Fine by me. I never hold a grudge with him.

by Duty281 Sat 8 Sep 2012 - 18:59

FreekShow wrote:I would put at least a dozen teams ahead of England. Those rankings need to be taken with one great big dollop of salt.

Who?

by Guest Sat 8 Sep 2012 - 19:10

Duty281 wrote:
FreekShow wrote:I would put at least a dozen teams ahead of England. Those rankings need to be taken with one great big dollop of salt.

Who?

Okay maybe 12 was a bit OTT but I'd favour Spain, Italy, Brazil, Argentina, Uruguay, Germany, Holland, Portugal and France against our lot in a one off knockout match and I've seen nothing to suggest otherwise Duty.

by Duty281 Sat 8 Sep 2012 - 19:22

FreekShow wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
FreekShow wrote:I would put at least a dozen teams ahead of England. Those rankings need to be taken with one great big dollop of salt.

Who?
Okay maybe 12 was a bit OTT but I'd favour Spain, Italy, Brazil, Argentina, Uruguay, Germany, Holland, Portugal and France against our lot in a one off knockout match and I've seen nothing to suggest otherwise Duty.

Italy couldn't beat us in a one-off knockout match a few months ago. Germany, Uruguay and the Argies are overrated. Holland have a shocking defence. France could only draw with us a few months ago. Portugal are a one-man team. I might begrudgingly favour Spain and Brazil over us though.

by Guest Sat 8 Sep 2012 - 19:51

You are right that Italy couldn't beat us but in footballing terms they were on another planet than us that night and deserved to progress. Perhaps the Germans are indeed overrated but I think they posses a better "team" than us. Uruguay have proven over the past couple of years how good-a-team they are.

Whilst Ronaldo hogs the headlines for Portugal it's a bit ignorant to suggest they are a one man team in my opinion. France outplayed us for most parts of our Euro 2012 match. To be fair the Dutch and Argentina are very much hit and miss but I'd still back them to beat us.

Brazil have slumped in recent years but look like they are on the way back up and Spain? Not a chance.

Not that any of that would blunt your enthusiasm Duty you ledge!

by Kay Fabe Sat 8 Sep 2012 - 19:52

Duty281 wrote:How many games of football have England lost at major tournaments in the last ten years? I believe it is only 3 out of 22. And how many games of football have England lost at the knock-out stages of major tournaments since 1986? I believe it is only 3 out of 15. That's why England get a high ranking.

Nice stats, how about this one, outside of England itself the furthest the England National Team have got in an International tournament is one solitary Semi-Final appearance

by Guest Sat 8 Sep 2012 - 19:54

the-gaffer wrote:
Duty281 wrote:How many games of football have England lost at major tournaments in the last ten years? I believe it is only 3 out of 22. And how many games of football have England lost at the knock-out stages of major tournaments since 1986? I believe it is only 3 out of 15. That's why England get a high ranking.

Nice stats, how about this one, outside of England itself the furthest the England National Team have got in an International tournament is one solitary Semi-Final appearance

But we still kid ourselves into believing we are a footballing super-power when in reality we are second rate at best.

by Kay Fabe Sat 8 Sep 2012 - 20:02

I think losing so often in Penalties helps paper over the cracks for a lot of fans

by Duty281 Sat 8 Sep 2012 - 20:04

the-gaffer wrote:
Duty281 wrote:How many games of football have England lost at major tournaments in the last ten years? I believe it is only 3 out of 22. And how many games of football have England lost at the knock-out stages of major tournaments since 1986? I believe it is only 3 out of 15. That's why England get a high ranking.

Nice stats, how about this one, outside of England itself the furthest the England National Team have got in an International tournament is one solitary Semi-Final appearance

How about this one, Scotland have never made it past the first round of a World Cup.

by Kay Fabe Sat 8 Sep 2012 - 20:12

That's like a dagger in the Heart, it really is...

by Liam Sat 8 Sep 2012 - 20:51

Argentina overrated? if they had a decent manager they would be favourites for the world cup, i would make them favourites for the world cup in brazil. I mean, look at the players they have:

-Messi
-Aguero
-Higuain
-Di Maria
-Banega
-Tevez

The list goes on. England have a decent side and I fully expect them to qualify and win their group. However, for me, they won't get further than the 1/4 finals because they simply haven't got the players. Its when you see they are 3rd in the world that you can simply laugh at the fifa world rankings.

by Thomond Sat 8 Sep 2012 - 21:47

No offence to you Duty but people like you are one of the reasons why England will not become a power in soccer for a long time to come. You're exactly like people were with Trap before the Euros. Putting your fingers over your ears and ignoring blatant problems that exist.

Wrote this a while back and I expect it to cause controversy, but the truth hurts. http://v2journal.com/england-where-next.html

by mystiroakey Sat 8 Sep 2012 - 21:47

the-gaffer wrote:I think losing so often in Penalties helps paper over the cracks for a lot of fans

name one fan that thinks england are the best in the world. You do not have a clue gaffer. Nothing is papered over at all. Rankings are only rankings- i know this is a very hard concept for you to gauge..

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