Ulster v Munster Friday 14th Sept. Discussion Thread

[Rava]

First topic message reminder :

Ulster XV & replacements to face Munster, RaboDirect PRO12, Friday 14th September, Ravenhill (7.05pm):
(15-9): J Payne; A Trimble, D Cave, L Marshall, M Allen; P Jackson, P Marshall;
(1-8): T Court, N Brady, J Afoa, J Muller (c), L Stevenson, S Ferris, S Doyle, N Williams;
Replacements (16-23): R Herring, C Black, D Fitzpatrick, N McComb, M McComish, M Heaney, P Nelson, C Gilroy.

Ulster Ravens team and replacements to face Munster A, Friday 14th September, Deramore, Park, Belfast (kick off 3pm):
(15-9):Ricky Andrew, Chris Colvin, Stuart McCloskey, Nevin Spence, Chris Cochrane; Niall O’Connor, Blane McIlroy;
(1-8): Richard Lutton, Niall Annett, Conor Carey, Alan O’Connor, Dan Tuohy, Iain Henderson, Chris Henry (c), Sean O’Connell;
Replacements (16-23): John Burns, Michael Cromie, Glenn Sinnamon, James Simpson, Neil Faloon, Scott Gibson, Ritchie McMaster, Michael McCauley.

Munster: Denis Hurley; Doug Howlett Capt., Casey Laulala, James Downey, Luke O’Dea; Ian Keatley, Duncan Williams; Dave Kilcoyne, Damien Varley, BJ Botha; Donncha O’Callaghan, Billy Holland; Dave O’Callaghan, Sean Dougall, James Coughlan. Replacements: Mike Sherry, Marcus Horan, Stephen Archer, Dave Foley, Tommy O’Donnell, Conor Murray, Ronan O’Gara, Keith Earls.

Munster A: Sean Scanlon; Ronan O’Mahony, Danny Barnes, JJ Hanrahan, Ivan Dineen; Scott Deasy, Peter Stringer; James Cronin, Sean Henry, Christy Condon; Philip Donnellan, Brian Hayes; Niall Ronan, Barry O’Mahony, Paddy Butler. Replacements: Duncan Casey, Kevin Griffin, Alan Cotter, Cathal O’Flaherty, Shane Buckley, Cathal Sheridan, Corey Hircock, Cian Bohane.

[MrsP]

It's gotta be better than the trolling though, no?

[MrsP]

It was the quality of the man not his province I was talking about T so count yerself included!




What are bacon fries?

I didn't really stir anything though? I just gave an honest assesment, wecould be all day nitpicking things referees miss like, no point in doing it. Most games are won and lost on a teams own execution anyway.

T?

I think you got the wrong end of that stick buddy.

I was including you with the good guys!

[drsambo1928]

Ah trolling is too fun, anyone here ever seen oldboy. See its fun

[Don Alfonso]

Indeed. It was a fantastic game and a great ad for the Rabo. That both teams have 6+ of their best players to come back is very exciting.

Well done to both sides and delighted to see see Munster fans made the trip. Felt like the season has been kickstarted with a bang.

[Thomond]

Ah right I just didn't want another crazy Ulster wagon after me. 2 is enough like

[asoreleftshoulder]

Yeah it was a very good game and shows serious improvement from both sides.The skill levels of both teams seems to have gone up a notch across the board.

Being honest as a Leinster fan I had no major worries about either province really challenging us this season but looking at the first 3 matches from each team I'm not nearly as comfortable.

[MrsP]

You'd better indeed!

[MrsP]

Yeah it was a very good game and shows serious improvement from both sides.The skill levels of both teams seems to have gone up a notch across the board.

Being honest as a Leinster fan I had no major worries about either province really challenging us this season but looking at the first 3 matches from each team I'm not nearly as comfortable.

ASLS,

Is that because you see an impovement in Ulster and Munster or because you feel you guys have slipped back?

Hard to imagine the second one applying.

[Thomond]

Munster are a while away yet ASLS. Some improvements needed but we have always been capable of palying this kind of rugby, Irish people are great athletes and we have good hands by and large (partially due to mixing the psorts, GAA with rugby etc).


Our rugby was never too bad though, we were relaint on the pack but we played good stuff. Last few years not so much but back in the day most definitely.

We never played like Deccie's Ireland if you listen to people who say that then you yourself are a buffoon.

[asoreleftshoulder]

Yeah it was a very good game and shows serious improvement from both sides.The skill levels of both teams seems to have gone up a notch across the board.

Being honest as a Leinster fan I had no major worries about either province really challenging us this season but looking at the first 3 matches from each team I'm not nearly as comfortable.

ASLS,

Is that because you see an impovement in Ulster and Munster or because you feel you guys have slipped back?

Hard to imagine the second one applying.

It's an improvement in both sides,I don't think we've slipped back but maybe we are standing still a little bit.

Little things like Earls getting involved twice and throwing 2 nice passes before scoring the try.He didn't really do things like that last season and it makes a huge difference to their attacking threat.
On the Ulster side it's more about how they've done without the top players,last year Ulster were very much a 15-20 man squad and after that the drop in quality was very noticeable but this year already you've managed to win tough matches while missing some big stars,it bodes well for how you'll do when the internationals come back in.

[Rory_Gallagher]

Well that was one of the best games of rugby I have seen in a while. Some fantastic rugby from both sides. I really wish I went to the game, the regs must have really enjoyed that one!

As for Earls, well he looks like he has a point to prove this season doesn't he? He has proven me wrong in many ways. I am not sure where his best position is, but he is capable of some incredible rugby no matter where he is played. I really hope he can continue to show that kind of form.

Payne was another standout, and easily my MOTM. He just makes it look easy, and he is such a deceptive runner. Keeps the ball in both hands, leaves the defence guessing and then just slides through. Sublime player.

[Rory_Gallagher]

Also I think Munster looked more like their older self in terms of the pack mentality, something that I feel was lacking last season. They just totally dominated the breakdown, and the pressure they put on Ulster was immense. It is very difficult to play against a team like that.

[asoreleftshoulder]

Well that was one of the best games of rugby I have seen in a while. Some fantastic rugby from both sides. I really wish I went to the game, the regs must have really enjoyed that one!

As for Earls, well he looks like he has a point to prove this season doesn't he? He has proven me wrong in many ways. I am not sure where his best position is, but he is capable of some incredible rugby no matter where he is played. I really hope he can continue to show that kind of form.

Payne was another standout, and easily my MOTM. He just makes it look easy, and he is such a deceptive runner. Keeps the ball in both hands, leaves the defence guessing and then just slides through. Sublime player.

Problem is there's no way he'll play like that under Kidney.

[clivemcl]

Payne was another standout, and easily my MOTM. He just makes it look easy, and he is such a deceptive runner. Keeps the ball in both hands, leaves the defence guessing and then just slides through. Sublime player.

and less than two years until he takes over from Kearney

[BelfastNI]

A few thoughts from last night:
Stevenson played well. He's a huge specimen, and dependent on the opposition, could take Touhy's place in the biggest games.
Doyle was quiet but should be given time to develop, though I think Henry's physicality in the 7 shirt will be a welcome addition.
Paul Marshall put in a mature performance - he's not the 'rabbit in the headlights' player he was a few years ago.
Jackson will take a lot of confidence from this performance and win - the Heineken Cup horror show has been put to bed.
Luke Marshall - I love him. He's like Paddy Wallace with an upgrade. I'd love to see him own the 12 shirt for us this season!
What strikes me about Allen is his confidence. He doesn't seem to have blinding pace, but I can see him being a very useful utility player for us for years to come.
Trimble looked like he was playing his first game of the season. I hear he received two punches, but just putting himself in that situation in the first place when we'd won the ball back with two minutes to go was stupid, especially just after been singled out by the ref to be told to calm down. Whatever happened after, he deserved a rollicking from his teammates! On the plus side, when he channelled his aggression into his tackling, the hits he produced were immense!
Gilroy came on and furthered his claims to be a first choice winger.
Payne oozed class - great to see the player who was pushing hard for All Black selection when we signed him!

On the fans - the atmosphere was special. As ever, quiet at the start but it just grows with the game. It was pure theatre, and both teams deserve a lot of credit!

[Rory_Gallagher]

Payne was another standout, and easily my MOTM. He just makes it look easy, and he is such a deceptive runner. Keeps the ball in both hands, leaves the defence guessing and then just slides through. Sublime player.

and less than two years until he takes over from Kearney

Kearney is also a sublime player. Plus he is actually irish. I doubt that will ever happen.

[valjester]

Yeah it was a very good game and shows serious improvement from both sides.The skill levels of both teams seems to have gone up a notch across the board.

Being honest as a Leinster fan I had no major worries about either province really challenging us this season but looking at the first 3 matches from each team I'm not nearly as comfortable.

ASLS,

Is that because you see an impovement in Ulster and Munster or because you feel you guys have slipped back?

Hard to imagine the second one applying.

It's an improvement in both sides,I don't think we've slipped back but maybe we are standing still a little bit.

Little things like Earls getting involved twice and throwing 2 nice passes before scoring the try.He didn't really do things like that last season and it makes a huge difference to their attacking threat.
On the Ulster side it's more about how they've done without the top players,last year Ulster were very much a 15-20 man squad and after that the drop in quality was very noticeable but this year already you've managed to win tough matches while missing some big stars,it bodes well for how you'll do when the internationals come back in.

This is a complete myth tbf, Earls has always been capable of throwing joining moves and throwing passes.

On Payne, I hope he never plays for Ireland, no matter how good he performs for us.

[asoreleftshoulder]

Yeah it was a very good game and shows serious improvement from both sides.The skill levels of both teams seems to have gone up a notch across the board.

Being honest as a Leinster fan I had no major worries about either province really challenging us this season but looking at the first 3 matches from each team I'm not nearly as comfortable.

ASLS,

Is that because you see an impovement in Ulster and Munster or because you feel you guys have slipped back?

Hard to imagine the second one applying.

It's an improvement in both sides,I don't think we've slipped back but maybe we are standing still a little bit.

Little things like Earls getting involved twice and throwing 2 nice passes before scoring the try.He didn't really do things like that last season and it makes a huge difference to their attacking threat.
On the Ulster side it's more about how they've done without the top players,last year Ulster were very much a 15-20 man squad and after that the drop in quality was very noticeable but this year already you've managed to win tough matches while missing some big stars,it bodes well for how you'll do when the internationals come back in.

This is a complete myth tbf, Earls has always been capable of throwing joining moves and throwing passes.

On Payne, I hope he never plays for Ireland, no matter how good he performs for us.

No it's not a myth,I've watched enough of Munster and Earls to say with confidence that while he may have been capcable of it he wasn't doing it.

[Sin é]

Have a look at this try from Jan 2011. Really great Munster team try with Earls at the heart of it, drawing the defence before giving a great pass.

You'll probably see a bit more of that kind of play, now that Munster have Downey in the centre. You probably won't see him doing that for Ireland alongside D'Arcy or BOD. It was really unfortunate for Munster & Earls that Jean de Villiers didn't stay longer than one season.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DTeK17yVaps

[asoreleftshoulder]

Have a look at this try from Jan 2011. Really great Munster team try with Earls at the heart of it, drawing the defence before giving a great pass.

You'll probably see a bit more of that kind of play, now that Munster have Downey in the centre. You probably won't see him doing that for Ireland alongside D'Arcy or BOD. It was really unfortunate for Munster & Earls that Jean de Villiers didn't stay longer than one season.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DTeK17yVaps

Yeah a nice score and a lovely break and pass off his left hand but that was a rare kind of play for both Munster and Earls.

I don't think we'll see him doing it for Ireland either as Kidneys gameplan doesn't put our centres or wingers in the position to make those kind of breaks or defense splitting passes.

[Rory_Gallagher]

I wouldn't say Downey is the difference, Sin.. Laulala more like.

[Sin é]

Have a look at this try from Jan 2011. Really great Munster team try with Earls at the heart of it, drawing the defence before giving a great pass.

You'll probably see a bit more of that kind of play, now that Munster have Downey in the centre. You probably won't see him doing that for Ireland alongside D'Arcy or BOD. It was really unfortunate for Munster & Earls that Jean de Villiers didn't stay longer than one season.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DTeK17yVaps

Yeah a nice score and a lovely break and pass off his left hand but that was a rare kind of play for both Munster and Earls.

I don't think we'll see him doing it for Ireland either as Kidneys gameplan doesn't put our centres or wingers in the position to make those kind of breaks or defense splitting passes.

Ah, so you admit he can do it now, but didn't!

D'Arcy or Paddy Wallace can't truck it up the middle like Downey or Jamie Roberts. We've never really seen Laulala without someone like those 2 to decide that he could play like that if paired with D'Arcy or Wallace.

It was even worse last year because Munster was down to light weight kids in the backrow missing David Wallace & Leamy (and later Coughlan & Ronan).

Can't wait for Stander to arrive!

[Sin é]

I wouldn't say Downey is the difference, Sin.. Laulala more like.

We will soon find out when Downey is rested and Laulala is paired with Danny Barnes as to how he gets on.

[Sin é]

He wouldn't have taken Keats off, if Laulala doesn't get injured ROG sits on the bench as he should. No use hauling Keatley off in one of the bigger games he plays. Even if ROG starts this year, Keatley will have to play in the HC or on the big stage at some point, he needs the experience.

Oh, right, Munster are going to leave O'Gara sitting on the bench for the rest of the year and hope Keatley doesn't get injured!

That was Keatley's 6th start of the season I think! O'Gara hasn't started a match since about last April (HCup QF).

[Sin é]

Trimble looked like he was playing his first game of the season. I hear he received two punches, but just putting himself in that situation in the first place when we'd won the ball back with two minutes to go was stupid, especially just after been singled out by the ref to be told to calm down. Whatever happened after, he deserved a rollicking from his teammates! On the plus side, when he channelled his aggression into his tackling, the hits he produced were immense!

Just rewatched the incident. There was nothing in the tussle between Hurley & Trimble. The player who deserves the rollicking is the Ulster player with the white scrumcap who was 3rd man in and was responsible for it all kicking off.

[asoreleftshoulder]

Ah, so you admit he can do it now, but didn't!

D'Arcy or Paddy Wallace can't truck it up the middle like Downey or Jamie Roberts. We've never really seen Laulala without someone like those 2 to decide that he could play like that if paired with D'Arcy or Wallace.

It was even worse last year because Munster was down to light weight kids in the backrow missing David Wallace & Leamy (and later Coughlan & Ronan).

Can't wait for Stander to arrive!

I'll admit that he might be able to do it,lets not forget he was playing on the wing last night.We have yet to see him really shine like that in the 13 jersey whereas he has had plenty of fine games on the wing.

If Downey is so good that he opens up all these options for his outside centre why was he not doing it for Northampton and why wasn't he picked for Ireland.It's good coaching and a clear gameplan that has Munster looking so effective,if McGahan was still there Downey wouldn't look half as good as he does now.

[pete (buachaill on eirne)]

Agree with that Asore. The entire Munster attitude has shifted, not entirely but a lot. The ball skills are definitely better too IMO. That clip was part of a pretty loose passage of play, last night Munster were doing well against set defences.

Still baffled by the last 3 mins of the game, Munster should have slowed it just a fraction, calmed and then gone for the DG when the ruck was just inside the Ulster 22. I thought it was game over.

[Sin é]

Ah, so you admit he can do it now, but didn't!

D'Arcy or Paddy Wallace can't truck it up the middle like Downey or Jamie Roberts. We've never really seen Laulala without someone like those 2 to decide that he could play like that if paired with D'Arcy or Wallace.

It was even worse last year because Munster was down to light weight kids in the backrow missing David Wallace & Leamy (and later Coughlan & Ronan).

Can't wait for Stander to arrive!

I'll admit that he might be able to do it,lets not forget he was playing on the wing last night.We have yet to see him really shine like that in the 13 jersey whereas he has had plenty of fine games on the wing.

If Downey is so good that he opens up all these options for his outside centre why was he not doing it for Northampton and why wasn't he picked for Ireland.It's good coaching and a clear gameplan that has Munster looking so effective,if McGahan was still there Downey wouldn't look half as good as he does now.

Since Jean de Villiers at 12 and Earls at 13, we did see some of it (which was McGahan's preferred centre partnership). Munster's wingers were not pacy enough to keep up with him then - the pacy Zebo & O'Dea will make a huge difference to that. Similar problem at international level. Luke Fitz was the only one able to keep up with Earls and he has been a huge loss for that reason and why Deccie has been looking at a few speedsters like Zebo & Gilroy.

Who'd have though that Munster could field a team that could have Doug Howlett as your slowest back

[Sin é]

Agree with that Asore. The entire Munster attitude has shifted, not entirely but a lot. The ball skills are definitely better too IMO. That clip was part of a pretty loose passage of play, last night Munster were doing well against set defences.

Still baffled by the last 3 mins of the game, Munster should have slowed it just a fraction, calmed and then gone for the DG when the ruck was just inside the Ulster 22. I thought it was game over.

Watched it again. Credit to Ulster for their fairly aggressive defence and for not conceeding a penalty.

[clivemcl]

Trimble looked like he was playing his first game of the season. I hear he received two punches, but just putting himself in that situation in the first place when we'd won the ball back with two minutes to go was stupid, especially just after been singled out by the ref to be told to calm down. Whatever happened after, he deserved a rollicking from his teammates! On the plus side, when he channelled his aggression into his tackling, the hits he produced were immense!

Just rewatched the incident. There was nothing in the tussle between Hurley & Trimble. The player who deserves the rollicking is the Ulster player with the white scrumcap who was 3rd man in and was responsible for it all kicking off.

Sin, I agree with that. Player was McComish. He saw I think Murray rushing in and potentially pre-empted some aggression. Not an excuse though. He was certainly looking a fight.

Your coming across very likeable today Sin. Your upsetting the natural order of things... I'm going to have to go for a lie down...

[red_stag]

Moment of the match.

Munster down to 14 men. Ulster turn down the points and go for the jugular taking a 5m scrum. It looks like a try could happen given Ulster have been dominating. Munster dig deep and Sherry strikes against the head.

Overall I'm very happy with how we did. The backline is whirring nicely, we eased Earls, Murray and ROG back into it and we still have to bring in so many forwards.

Of the pack that started yesterdays game I think only 2 players (BJ Botha and either Coughlan/Dougall) will be starting in the Heineken Cup. Add in Wian du Preez, Mike Sherry, Donncha Ryan, Paul O'Connell, CJ Stander and Peter O'Mahony and it gives our backline a great platform.

I wasn't overly impressed with either Murray or ROG but its their first game back coming off the bench into a very tough encounter. Delivering in those circumstances would have been extraordinary. I think Keatley has a big role to play this season for us.

I was calling for us to use O'Gara as a decoy and let Keatley claim a drop goal at the end of the match. IMO it would have been smart play.

I travelled up to Belfast for the game and thought it was a brilliant interpro and an excellent advertisement for the league.

[Thomond]

He wouldn't have taken Keats off, if Laulala doesn't get injured ROG sits on the bench as he should. No use hauling Keatley off in one of the bigger games he plays. Even if ROG starts this year, Keatley will have to play in the HC or on the big stage at some point, he needs the experience.

Oh, right, Munster are going to leave O'Gara sitting on the bench for the rest of the year and hope Keatley doesn't get injured!

That was Keatley's 6th start of the season I think! O'Gara hasn't started a match since about last April (HCup QF).

We're talking HC stuff here Sin of course ROG gets Rabo games but he shouldn't be first choice. The guy is on the way out and isn't capable of this new style. If Penney goes with ROG I will back him and hope he proves me wrong but I have felt he is not up to the task for a while

[Captain Charisma]

The 5m scrum wasnt a strike against the head from Sherry. The ulster hooker struck and the ball ricocheted off the second rows knees. V Lucky.

Munster and Ulster are both on the way up,

Nick Williams was absolutely terrible. He's rapidly climbing up my list of crap foreigners costing Irish players game time.

To think Munster picked him ahead of Coughlan for at least a year.

[red_stag]

I thought Nick Williams was Ulsters go to guy and has already been better for Ulster than he was for us.

As apalling as he was for us he did ok enough last night.

[asoreleftshoulder]

Yeah he played well enough but Ulster overused him a little imo,the Payne try came about when they used Williams as a decoy and Munster focused on him leaving space outside for the backs to exploit.

[Don Alfonso]

Has anyone been on the UAFC board? There's a rumour being reported there that is awful beyond words. I'm nit being glib.

[asoreleftshoulder]

Just saw it on the Munster fans board,doesn't sound good.

[red_stag]

Don we are talking about it in the pub. I think that nothing should be said.until.confirmed

[rodders]

I've seen the rumours and obviously hope its not true. Not saying anything else until there is something official released.

Please god its not true.

[Don Alfonso]

Fair enough. Whoever it is, it's heartbreaking.

[Thomond]

The accident is a tragedy in itself, a terrible thing for any family with them. If that rumour is indeed true than it will be sad sight for Irish rugby. It is a terrible sight regardless though a truely terrible accident. Thoughts with the afflicted parties whoever they be.

[rodders]

Yeah its an awful tragedy regardless but as an Ulster and Irish rugby fan I hope whats been reported on the other forum is a mistake.

[neilthom7]

This is a terrible accident as the son of a farmer I know only to well how easily something like that can happen, I hope it is not Nevin though. Either my thoughts and prayers are with the family of whoever it is.

[neilthom7]

Ian Humphreys and James Sandford of London Irish have posted messages on twitter it looks like it is indeed Nevin Spence

[Cari]

Oh god that's really sad. I don't know what to say.

[rodders]

Jesus Neil I'm stunned. Its all over twitter now. Tragic beyond words.

[Thomond]

Tragedy is the only word to describe something like this, thought are with the Spence family and their friends a terrible thing to happen. I expect Ulster Rugby to show their class by honouring him

[neilthom7]

I can't believe it Nevin was not only a great player but one of the nicest people you could ever hope to meet even with his success he had time for everyone. My thoughts are with his family to lose 3 of the family at once is terrible, I wish his sister who is in hospital well too and hope she makes a full recovery.

[Hookisms and Hyperbole]

Someone whose word I trust at the Ulster Branch told me its true. Honestly I'm just really sad and don't think I have the words to express my sympathy to the Spence family. Forget for a moment that it was Nevin Spence, a great prospect as a rugby player and more importantly as a person. His mother has lost two sons and a husband tonight and her daughter is very fortunate to still be alive. It is truly heartbreaking.

[Thomond]

True hyperbole, a true tragedy regardless of Spence's status and I don't mean that in a bad way. I'm just saying this would be a terrible thing regardless of who was involved. Thought are with his family.

[Sponsored content]