Ulster Discussion Thread

[Kingshu]

In a backrow of Izzy,Timoney and McCann and any Ulster fan will tell you its McCann whos played the best this season. But the other two are the ones called up. It appears that for Ulster players for national selection you are soley judged on the games V Leinster and Munster, the rest of the season the selectors arnt watching. Izzy and Timoney both had great games V them and had some great highlights, McCann was good but no real showreel moments in those games.

[RiscaGame]

Last thread went onto 21 pages, so had to lock it.

[RugbyFan100]

Trophy next season then lads?

[geoff999rugby]

Nope - Front 5 isn't good enough.

If O'Toole is switch to LH by Ireland then we must get a TH.
If that was a decent player ala Toomunga-Allen level we may have a punchers chance in the URC.
We would need Henderson to play a high percentage of games to be competitive.
A QF in Europe would be a major achievement with such a signing, and Henderson playing, without them no chance.
A chance in the Challange Cup would be another punchers chances, again if both prop and a fit Henderson available.

Realistically 5th to 8th in the URC same as this year is most likely.
This was my prediction last year and most other Ulster supporters - we were right

[geoff999rugby]

I know it is more of an Ireland thing than an Ulster thing but I thought Id say how
I view the backrow status of our players in the wider Ireland setup.

POM - a great (much over used word) servant of Irish rugby.
However for me he should not be going to SA.

Without him that makes the backrow Conan, Doris, De Flier with Baird on the bench.
For me for all his atheticism Baird is missing something.
As an example against Ulster Doris and De Flier bested us but I thought McCann and Timoney got the measure of Baird.

After that it seems to me that Farrell likes players who can play Lock and Backrow and that he is looking at another player
besides Baird who can fulfil the role.
Ahern, Izzy and Sheridan are those in the frame.

For core backrowers Farrell wants 5 players - currently POM, Doris, Conan, Timoney, Prendergast
McCann is waiting in the wings when POM leaves the international stage.

Farrell doesn't seem to go for an out and out 7 , in part because of De Flier's quality.
If he wants one it will be Hodnett or Connors

For me Deegan, Coombes and, probably, Penny are on the discard pile
No one else comes to mind as being in the frame (although there are a smattering of promising players
who have yet to break into first XVs)

[carpet baboon]

Sanderson retires after medical advice due to concussion.
Sad way for a promising player to have to leave the sport, but health always has to come first.

[geoff999rugby]

Somebody on the UAFC forum wrote

'Baird, for all his physical attributes, seems to be lacking some rugby IQ'

I think they have a point

Saunderson is just sad.
I was surprised he didn't get a contract.
Upon hearing the reason he has done the wise thing

[Welshmushroom]

Are Ulster still going to sign players this summer or have they finished all their business. I do wish the URC would bring in some summer transfer deadline so all fans know what teams are working with next year.

If they are done, I'm not sure they will do as well as last year's 6th place finish. There's a few reasons for this. One of the main reasons I think there will be more pressure in the Top 8 next year. Sharks with their summer transfers should be a top 6 side. Which I think would push Ulster to 7th-8th. Probably will depend how Benetton recruit as well as they could end up above them.

I do think Ulster's squad on paper does look weaker at the moment than they did last year so without signings they will have a hard task to get into that top 8. That said having seen everyone's recruitment under them so far, none of the teams below them (Welsh, Zebre, Connacht, Edinburgh) will catch them.

The key will probably how they manage the losses they will have at points and making sure it doesnt affect their confidence like it did last year.

All I know is each URC has got tougher every year since inception and I think next year could be tougher again for all teams involved.

[carpet baboon]

Unless injuries occur I don't think anyone else will be coming in.
The depth in the front 5 and centre is an issue for me, mainly due to the few genuinely URC proven players we have there. A couple of injuries and we will be hoping some of our academy boys step up. At prop especially I don't think we have much outside the six first team players, unless we have another Scott Wilson that steps up seemingly from no where
Second row is pretty low on numbers. Hopes from the academy looks good but needs to put on some size, Sheridan has proved so far he can play this level but our 3 senior rows (Henderson Treadwell and big Al) 2 seem to be injured a lot and the other is on the downward slope of his career.
Not sure if Izzy will be permanently playing 6 or swapping between there and the row.
McCann and Timoney are class and with Izzy it looks like a good balance, but again after these 3 we have some average or always injured (rea, reffell) a couple of the academy lads look promising, Mcnabey has already played a couple of times and not looked out of place, and personally I have high hopes for Ward, a big fast 7 who has good hands and is a proper menace over the ball.
Also forgot to mention Ruben Crothers, very talented 7 who has a couple of senior caps.

We do h

[carpet baboon]

We do have a lot of 9s cooney is still first choice with Doak as understudy and shanners is the most enthusiastic water battle carrier in the URC.
At ten we are hoping our new kiwi/iq player hits the ground running, and he does seem to like.running, then we have an untried Humphreys junior, and Richie Murphy's lad in the academy.
Centre we will start the season with stu, Moore and poselthwait as our only fit centers, Hume will still be out and stu may be on mandatory rest after the tour to SA .
Wingers we have a good few but no out and out 15. I can see Moore.being moved there.

So all in all we have a good 1xv and some weeks a decent bench. Then there will be a good few kids given a chance

If anything it will be interesting.

I'm sure I have forgotten some players so feel free to correct me gents

[geoff999rugby]

If we dont sign a prop we will be forced to an injury emergency.
Given who we have that is a racing certainty

Ulster will be stronger this year not weaker for the simple reason a significant number of players are no longer switch off
or, effectively, not wanted -
EOS, AOC, Izzy, Baloucoune to name 4.
They are like 4 new players as well as McDonald, Kok and Morgan.
Plus Cooney, Stockdale are in a much better frame of mind.
Given that the likes of Sheridan, McCann and Wilson are going from strength to strength I expect a very similar return.
only Kitshoff departed and he was here only a few months and his performance were a huge disappointment

We wil lmake the top 8 with the set up in place.

[Pete330v2]

I was talking to a person well connected to Ulster rugby and he told an interesting tale, if this has already been told then apologies for missing it. When Ritchie first arrived at Ravenhill apparently there was a split in the camp with the senior players and junior players barely communicating and kitting out separately etc. Ritchie simply told them to wise up and get back to business or forget pulling on the jersey, he wasn't going to deal with whatever petty issues had arisen and the slate was being wiped clean. What caused the rift wasn't specified but Dan's management obviously had allowed the rot to set in if not being the cause in the first place.

I can foresee Ulster performing better next season as Geoff has already alluded to. What Murphy's eventual master gameplan will be for the season is yet to be seen but from those green shoots of hope at the end of this season will fingers crossed emerge what it is we're all hoping for. Performance aside that doesn't mean we'll finish any higher up the table. For example, what are the chances of doing to double on Leinster next season? There's points that will need to be made up elsewhere. It's going to be interesting.

[geoff999rugby]

Clearly the dressing room was toxic.
McFarland had to go

[Maine man]

So Leinster have signed Rabah Slimani on a 1 year deal apparently. That's nice.

[Pete330v2]

So Leinster have signed Rabah Slimani on a 1 year deal apparently. That's nice.

Leinster, despite having a deep squad have built on that with the signings for next season and with the likes of RG and Slimani on the books along with the Ireland squad and a nice coaching ticket perhaps they'll win some silverware next season.
As it stood this season we best them 2-1 in matches and won the same silverware and that was with all that was going on at Ulster. That's a win for us

[geoff999rugby]

I know Leinster can get foreigners whenever they want.

By my reckoning they have 4 NIQ players next year + 2 Residency Qualified players
Ulster by contrast have 1 NIQ ans no Residency qualified players.
Now I know it is, to some extent, down to money but at the same time it is clear Ulster are not
being allowed to sign a NIQ prop (one rules for them?)

What is even more disturbing is Leinster enquired about O'Toole and Bealham.
Both players who are under contract for next year, key to their respective Provinces and part of the full strength match day squad
There lost would be a body blow to their Provinces.

I know Ulster have enquired about some Leinster players but not once has it been for a player who is a member of the starting XV
and very rarely one who has a contract for the upcoming season.

Of course Leinster are the engine room of Irelands current success but I am convinced that Ireland long term interest is in having 3, or even 4 good competitve sides not one near the top at the expense of the other three.

Treat all Provinces equally in terms of NIQ players and dont allowed first team 23's to be approached when they have a contract with
their existing provinces for the upcoming season.

Otherwise when JPG retires are Leinster allowed to approach Doak?
When Lowe retires are Leisnter allowed to approach Hansen?

Such moves would be to the long term detriment of Irish rugby.

[geoff999rugby]

As a postscript I reckon we could be very competitve if we had Slimani and Snyman in our front 5.

As I say one rule for one, and one rule for the rest.

[formerly known as Sam]

As a postscript I reckon we could be very competitve if we had Slimani and Snyman in our front 5.

As I say one rule for one, and one rule for the rest.

If you could keep Snyman fit and if 34 year old Slimani (35 in October) can play sufficient minutes. He played a lot of minutes this season to be fair but given his age profile it's going to be a big ask to keep that level of workload going and probably why Clermont didn't opt to renew him.

[Unclear]

I agree entirely that the future of Irish rugby needs 3 and preferably 4 strong provinces. But bringing in high quality NIQ players can be a useful thing to do if it drives up standards. Leinster have flattered to deceive again this year and need something, who knows exactly what, to reach the heights of previous years. Will Slimani, Synman, and Barrett do it? Who knows? I know times were different but we did have Pienaar, Muller, and Afoa at the same time I think, and won nothing, so we can't complain too much.

The attempt to "poach" other provinces top players is much more serious in my view. As we can see Leinster are more than able to afford to buy in help if required, the other provinces (even Munster) not so much. Attempts to concentrate all the Irish talent in one province will be a long term detriment to rugby across the island. Interest in the other provinces will drop, with inevitable drop off in participation and income.

Lower tier players looking to move to get game time and better opportunities should be encouraged as it will benefit all sides. Personally I think we should never have had to take a punt on an aging Ewers given the numbers of back rowers at Leinster with potential but limited game time at Leinster. Obviously they had different views about demonstrating and reaching their potential.

But ultimately whinging about things will get us nowhere. Having had players like Pienaar, Afoa, Piutau, Payne, Muller, and most recently Kitshoff and not winning anything, we can only look to the various s**tshows we have had coaching and running the province and make sure they change.

[geoff999rugby]

Provinces being treated equally when it comes to NIQ/Project players is all I ask.

That isn't the case now
Leinster 6
Ulster 1

[carpet baboon]

Tom Stewart out for 6 months is the rumour

[LeinsterFan4life]

Provinces being treated equally when it comes to NIQ/Project players is all I ask.

That isn't the case now
Leinster 6
Ulster 1

Why compare just Leinster? What about Munster?

[mikey_dragon]

As a postscript I reckon we could be very competitve if we had Slimani and Snyman in our front 5.

As I say one rule for one, and one rule for the rest.

If you could keep Snyman fit and if 34 year old Slimani (35 in October) can play sufficient minutes. He played a lot of minutes this season to be fair but given his age profile it's going to be a big ask to keep that level of workload going and probably why Clermont didn't opt to renew him.

I think Clermont were going to offer 1 year if he fit that in with some coaching. Leinster offered a player contract for 2 years from what I read, not 1.

[Unclear]

Provinces being treated equally when it comes to NIQ/Project players is all I ask.

That isn't the case now
Leinster 6
Ulster 1

If we were offered the opportunity to sign another 5 quality NIQ players could we afford it? I assume not 5, possibly 1? Could Connacht afford any more? The whole issue of equality or equitability is difficult. I'm not sure we want equality, but all provinces being treated equitably might be an aim. Leinster will always be in pole position to attract outside money, not even Munster can compete on that. Do we really want equal funding to them from the IRFU? I want the IRFU actually trying to get Ulster (and Connacht) up to the levels of Munster and Leinster and that might mean additional funding. Hopefully getting Murphy as coach is the start of that process, and I agree getting some reinforcements (particularly in the front row) will be essential.

I fully understand you can't force players to move, but the IRFU should be ensuring that a route to a place on the international squad is through being first (or possibly 2nd) choice for your province, not just getting game time when the actual internationals are injured or being rested. That would encourage the spread of talent across the provinces I think.

Anyway I think we agree we need reinforcements in more areas than is comfortable, but that the crisis is on hold at least until the start of the season ..........maybe.

[geoff999rugby]

I don't expect world beaters but it is my understand we can afford a reasonable Orop and another forward and we are certainly being blocked signing a NIQ prop.

[LeinsterFan4life]

Provinces being treated equally when it comes to NIQ/Project players is all I ask.

That isn't the case now
Leinster 6
Ulster 1

If we were offered the opportunity to sign another 5 quality NIQ players could we afford it?  I assume not 5, possibly 1?  Could Connacht afford any more?  The whole issue of equality or equitability is difficult.  I'm not sure we want equality, but all provinces being treated equitably might be an aim.  Leinster will always be in pole position to attract outside money, not even Munster can compete on that.  Do we really want equal funding to them from the IRFU?  I want the IRFU actually trying to get Ulster (and Connacht) up to the levels of Munster and Leinster and that might mean additional funding.  Hopefully getting Murphy as coach is the start of that process, and I agree getting some reinforcements (particularly in the front row) will be essential.

I fully understand you can't force players to move, but the IRFU should be ensuring that a route to a place on the international squad is through being first (or possibly 2nd) choice for your province, not just getting game time when the actual internationals are injured or being rested.  That would encourage the spread of talent across the provinces I think.

Anyway I think we agree we need reinforcements in more areas than is comfortable, but that the crisis is on hold at least until the start of the season ..........maybe.

Provinces not being able to outbid each other isn't working in that regard. Ulster should be able to offer the likes of Deegan more money to go play. It isn't enough to just offer more game time for somebody to leave their own province.

[Kingshu]

Provinces being treated equally when it comes to NIQ/Project players is all I ask.

That isn't the case now
Leinster 6
Ulster 1

If we were offered the opportunity to sign another 5 quality NIQ players could we afford it?  I assume not 5, possibly 1?  Could Connacht afford any more?  The whole issue of equality or equitability is difficult.  I'm not sure we want equality, but all provinces being treated equitably might be an aim.  Leinster will always be in pole position to attract outside money, not even Munster can compete on that.  Do we really want equal funding to them from the IRFU?  I want the IRFU actually trying to get Ulster (and Connacht) up to the levels of Munster and Leinster and that might mean additional funding.  Hopefully getting Murphy as coach is the start of that process, and I agree getting some reinforcements (particularly in the front row) will be essential.

I fully understand you can't force players to move, but the IRFU should be ensuring that a route to a place on the international squad is through being first (or possibly 2nd) choice for your province, not just getting game time when the actual internationals are injured or being rested.  That would encourage the spread of talent across the provinces I think.

Anyway I think we agree we need reinforcements in more areas than is comfortable, but that the crisis is on hold at least until the start of the season ..........maybe.

Provinces not being able to outbid each other isn't working in that regard. Ulster should be able to offer the likes of Deegan more money to go play. It isn't enough to just offer more game time for somebody to leave their own province.

Provinces outbidding each other would be bad news, Leinster could easly out bid Ulster and Connacht for ToT and Bealham.

As mentioned Leinster can pay their 2nd XV more than the other provinces can pay thier 1st XV. Deegan would in fact have to take a pay cut ( when tax rebate is calculated) to move to Ulster. He's probably earning more than Timoney to warm Leinsters bench.

[Don Alfonso]

Provinces not being able to outbid each other isn't working in that regard. Ulster should be able to offer the likes of Deegan more money to go play. It isn't enough to just offer more game time for somebody to leave their own province.

Provinces outbidding each other would be bad news, Leinster could easly out bid Ulster and Connacht for ToT and Bealham.

As mentioned Leinster can pay their 2nd XV more than the other provinces can pay thier 1st XV. Deegan would in fact have to take a pay cut ( when tax rebate is calculated) to move to Ulster. He's probably earning more than Timoney to warm Leinsters bench.[/quote]

Would Timoney not be getting additional money for playing for Ireland? If that's the case, I'd imagine that ironically means he makes more than Deegan, although I agree Deegan is probably on a higher salary.

[LeinsterFan4life]

Provinces being treated equally when it comes to NIQ/Project players is all I ask.

That isn't the case now
Leinster 6
Ulster 1

If we were offered the opportunity to sign another 5 quality NIQ players could we afford it?  I assume not 5, possibly 1?  Could Connacht afford any more?  The whole issue of equality or equitability is difficult.  I'm not sure we want equality, but all provinces being treated equitably might be an aim.  Leinster will always be in pole position to attract outside money, not even Munster can compete on that.  Do we really want equal funding to them from the IRFU?  I want the IRFU actually trying to get Ulster (and Connacht) up to the levels of Munster and Leinster and that might mean additional funding.  Hopefully getting Murphy as coach is the start of that process, and I agree getting some reinforcements (particularly in the front row) will be essential.

I fully understand you can't force players to move, but the IRFU should be ensuring that a route to a place on the international squad is through being first (or possibly 2nd) choice for your province, not just getting game time when the actual internationals are injured or being rested.  That would encourage the spread of talent across the provinces I think.

Anyway I think we agree we need reinforcements in more areas than is comfortable, but that the crisis is on hold at least until the start of the season ..........maybe.

Provinces not being able to outbid each other isn't working in that regard. Ulster should be able to offer the likes of Deegan more money to go play. It isn't enough to just offer more game time for somebody to leave their own province.

Provinces outbidding each other would be bad news, Leinster could easly out bid Ulster and Connacht for ToT and Bealham.

As mentioned Leinster can pay their 2nd XV more than the other provinces can pay thier 1st XV. Deegan would in fact have to take a pay cut ( when tax rebate is calculated) to move to Ulster. He's probably earning more than Timoney to warm Leinsters bench.

That MIGHT be one player that a provinces losses to Leinster but there are far more players that could potentially leave Leinster for better pay. At the end of the day it's a job for the players and offering better pay is quite simply the best way to get players to move between provinces.

[Kingshu]

Provinces being treated equally when it comes to NIQ/Project players is all I ask.

That isn't the case now
Leinster 6
Ulster 1

If we were offered the opportunity to sign another 5 quality NIQ players could we afford it?  I assume not 5, possibly 1?  Could Connacht afford any more?  The whole issue of equality or equitability is difficult.  I'm not sure we want equality, but all provinces being treated equitably might be an aim.  Leinster will always be in pole position to attract outside money, not even Munster can compete on that.  Do we really want equal funding to them from the IRFU?  I want the IRFU actually trying to get Ulster (and Connacht) up to the levels of Munster and Leinster and that might mean additional funding.  Hopefully getting Murphy as coach is the start of that process, and I agree getting some reinforcements (particularly in the front row) will be essential.

I fully understand you can't force players to move, but the IRFU should be ensuring that a route to a place on the international squad is through being first (or possibly 2nd) choice for your province, not just getting game time when the actual internationals are injured or being rested.  That would encourage the spread of talent across the provinces I think.

Anyway I think we agree we need reinforcements in more areas than is comfortable, but that the crisis is on hold at least until the start of the season ..........maybe.

Provinces not being able to outbid each other isn't working in that regard. Ulster should be able to offer the likes of Deegan more money to go play. It isn't enough to just offer more game time for somebody to leave their own province.

Provinces outbidding each other would be bad news, Leinster could easly out bid Ulster and Connacht for ToT and Bealham.

As mentioned Leinster can pay their 2nd XV more than the other provinces can pay thier 1st XV. Deegan would in fact have to take a pay cut ( when tax rebate is calculated) to move to Ulster. He's probably earning more than Timoney to warm Leinsters bench.

That MIGHT be one player that a provinces losses to Leinster but there are far more players that could potentially leave Leinster for better pay. At the end of the day it's a job for the players and offering better pay is quite simply the best way to get players to move between provinces.

But the provinces can't afford to pay the same money for a player that Leinster does, by not only having a bigger budget, but also not having to play a penny (soon to be up to 30%) for 10 top players. Leinster 20th highest earner, would prob be a top 5 earner at another province.

[LeinsterFan4life]

Provinces being treated equally when it comes to NIQ/Project players is all I ask.

That isn't the case now
Leinster 6
Ulster 1

If we were offered the opportunity to sign another 5 quality NIQ players could we afford it?  I assume not 5, possibly 1?  Could Connacht afford any more?  The whole issue of equality or equitability is difficult.  I'm not sure we want equality, but all provinces being treated equitably might be an aim.  Leinster will always be in pole position to attract outside money, not even Munster can compete on that.  Do we really want equal funding to them from the IRFU?  I want the IRFU actually trying to get Ulster (and Connacht) up to the levels of Munster and Leinster and that might mean additional funding.  Hopefully getting Murphy as coach is the start of that process, and I agree getting some reinforcements (particularly in the front row) will be essential.

I fully understand you can't force players to move, but the IRFU should be ensuring that a route to a place on the international squad is through being first (or possibly 2nd) choice for your province, not just getting game time when the actual internationals are injured or being rested.  That would encourage the spread of talent across the provinces I think.

Anyway I think we agree we need reinforcements in more areas than is comfortable, but that the crisis is on hold at least until the start of the season ..........maybe.

Provinces not being able to outbid each other isn't working in that regard. Ulster should be able to offer the likes of Deegan more money to go play. It isn't enough to just offer more game time for somebody to leave their own province.

Provinces outbidding each other would be bad news, Leinster could easly out bid Ulster and Connacht for ToT and Bealham.

As mentioned Leinster can pay their 2nd XV more than the other provinces can pay thier 1st XV. Deegan would in fact have to take a pay cut ( when tax rebate is calculated) to move to Ulster. He's probably earning more than Timoney to warm Leinsters bench.

That MIGHT be one player that a provinces losses to Leinster but there are far more players that could potentially leave Leinster for better pay. At the end of the day it's a job for the players and offering better pay is quite simply the best way to get players to move between provinces.

But the provinces can't afford to pay the same money for a player that Leinster does, by not only having a bigger budget, but also not having to play a penny (soon to be up to 30%) for 10 top players. Leinster 20th highest earner, would prob be a top 5 earner at another province.

Where are you getting this information on player wages? What are the likes of Deegan and Frawley earning?

[geoff999rugby]

Leinster have a similar base budget to the other provinces.
On top of that they have 10 players on CCs.
They have private money.
They have tax advantages that Ulster don't.
Ulster have 1 CC and no private money.

Leinster are paying out the base Salary level to their players without having to worry about 10 of them.
There is no way Ulster can compete.
If Provinces were allowed to compete against each other for players it would be the end of Provincisl rugby.
Ulster and Connacht would become no more than feeder teams for Leinstet

[clivemcl]

Not watched it yet, but I see Berman scored a hatrick for the u20s. Given the above chat re Leinsters' spending power. Ought we to be fearful that if any of these academy prospects prove to be decent, they will just return down the road at the snap of Leinsters' fingers?
Can Ulster actually outbid Leinster if they decide they are worth having back?
Are these guys just treating Ulster as a gap year? Lol, wouldn't be surprised if it was just to get a taste of independence or in their minds experiencing a different culture.

[geoff999rugby]

 Not watched it yet, but I see Berman scored a hatrick for the u20s. Given the above chat re Leinsters' spending power.
Ought we to be fearful that if any of these academy prospects prove to be decent, they will just return down the road at the snap of Leinsters' fingers?

Dont see why we should be fearful
EOS, AOC, Tiomoney etc all decided to stay.

Can Ulster actually outbid Leinster if they decide they are worth having back?

As noted Provinces cannot outbid each other and these players are now in the Ulster not the Leinster set up

Are these guys just treating Ulster as a gap year?

No.

I think I am right in saying that two of them are studying at Queens.
In the same way McKee (an Ulsterman) is in the Leisnter set up as he is studying at Trinity

The number of players, with contracts, who transfer between Ulster and other provinces is very small
Murphy, Boss come to mind - who else?

[Pete330v2]

So it's a group with Toulouse, Leicester, Bordeaux, Exeter and the Saffer Sharks. Could be worse I suppose, there's no easy draws anyway.

[geoff999rugby]

I like the look of Humpreys latest message -- very clear cut.

No province will be allowed to have any NIQ prop, on their books, from next summer.
Reading between the lines it seems clear he would not have allowed Slimani to sign if he had been in charge.
Also seems that a similar ban on NIQ fly halves is being actively considered.
Is this why Ioane has only a 1 year contract at Connacht with JJ returning from injury by then.

A clear commitment to force all Provinces to shape with regard to players in three key positions.

Also a very pointed shot across the bows, again, about players happy to be 2nd XV and 3rd XV players.
Again emphasised he cannot force players to move and that there is some onus of the provinces wanting players to move to make the move attractive.

HE specifically said:

“If you’re happy to sit third, fourth, maybe fifth choice when you could be playing somewhere
else and potentially developing your career that’s not the sort of player that will be travelling to places like this on tour.”

Looking specifically at Leinster, and one position.my take on this uis that he is sending out a message to some players:
Harry Byrne - stay at Leinster and you have no Irish future
Charlie Tector - you are 23 next year, your 5th choice fly half, you have never started a top flight game and have played 106 minutes in total.
Do you have Irish aspirations or you content with being a squad player.
Ciaran Frawley - do you want to be considered as a Irish 10, if you do you have to move

Will Farrell taking a sabbatical Humphreys will be in a very strong position to have his way next year

[LeinsterFan4life]

I like the look of Humpreys latest message -- very clear cut.

No province will be allowed to have any NIQ prop, on their books, from next summer.
Reading between the lines it seems clear he would not have allowed Slimani to sign if he had been in charge.
Also seems that a similar ban on NIQ fly halves is being actively considered.
Is this why Ioane has only a 1 year contract at Connacht with JJ returning from injury by then.

A clear commitment to force all Provinces to shape with regard to players in three key positions.

Also a very pointed shot across the bows, again, about players happy to be 2nd XV and 3rd XV players.
Again emphasised he cannot force players to move and that there is some onus of the provinces wanting players to move to make the move attractive.

HE specifically said:

“If you’re happy to sit third, fourth, maybe fifth choice when you could be playing somewhere
else and potentially developing your career that’s not the sort of player that will be travelling to places like this on tour.”

Looking specifically at Leinster, and one position.my take on this uis that he is sending out a message to some players:
Harry Byrne - stay at Leinster and you have no Irish future
Charlie Tector - you are 23 next year, your 5th choice fly half, you have never started a top flight game and have played 106 minutes in total.
Do you have Irish aspirations or you content with being a squad player.
Ciaran Frawley - do you want to be considered as a Irish 10, if you do you have to move

Will Farrell taking a sabbatical Humphreys will be in a very strong position to have his way next year

I called the no NIQ props thing but I called it a year early. It's completely understandable given the prop crisis we are facing.

On Harry Byrne, he played in the 6 nations this year, so is absolutely apart of the Irish conversation. Tector on the other hand - I've no idea why he hasn't moved yet, it's ridiculous.

[carpet baboon]

Nice easy start to the Heineken cup for us this year.

[Unclear]

There are no easy fixtures and all those usual platitudes ...

As an ex-pat living in England I try to get to the away game against English opposition, but Leicester and Exeter are about the 2 furthest grounds for me to get to. Given the away game is Leicester at 8.00pm on a Saturday night, the chances of attendance aren't good.

[carpet baboon]

There are no easy fixtures and all those usual platitudes ...

As an ex-pat living in England I try to get to the away game against English opposition, but Leicester and Exeter are about the 2 furthest grounds for me to get to. Given the away game is Leicester at 8.00pm on a Saturday night, the chances of attendance aren't good.

I'm only an hour and a half from Leicester. So might see if the eldest child fancys it.

[Kingshu]

Roddy grant released

[carpet baboon]

Any news on a replacement?

[carpet baboon]

Could Faloon be joining Richie? Or maybe we will get John Fogarty up on a timeshare with ireland

[geoff999rugby]

Any news on a replacement?

Already here - Jimmy Duffy

[geoff999rugby]

On Harry Byrne, he played in the 6 nations this year, so is absolutely apart of the Irish conversation. Tector on the other hand - I've no idea why he hasn't moved yet, it's ridiculous.

Harry Bryne will soon be history in short order with Frawley and Prendergast going past him in the pecking order.

[formerly known as Sam]

On Harry Byrne, he played in the 6 nations this year, so is absolutely apart of the Irish conversation. Tector on the other hand - I've no idea why he hasn't moved yet, it's ridiculous.

Harry Bryne will soon be history in short order with Frawley and Prendergast going past him in the pecking order.

Squad depth is one thing but when the other province's are short on 10s why are these guys staying at Leinster where the bag log of internationally capped 10s is longer than most clubs have flyhalf options. Mad.

[geoff999rugby]

On Harry Byrne, he played in the 6 nations this year, so is absolutely apart of the Irish conversation. Tector on the other hand - I've no idea why he hasn't moved yet, it's ridiculous.

Harry Bryne will soon be history in short order with Frawley and Prendergast going past him in the pecking order.

Squad depth is one thing but when the other province's are short on 10s why are these guys staying at Leinster where the bag log of internationally capped 10s is longer than most clubs have flyhalf options. Mad.

They are not cattle who can be forced to move, Humphreys has made that perfectly clear.
At the same time he has made it clear that if they choose to stay in Leisnters 2nd XV or 3rd XV they have no International future.

They make personal choices.

I do wonder if the likes of Deegan, Penny, Harry Byrne have any real desire to play top flight rugby though.

[formerly known as Sam]

On Harry Byrne, he played in the 6 nations this year, so is absolutely apart of the Irish conversation. Tector on the other hand - I've no idea why he hasn't moved yet, it's ridiculous.

Harry Bryne will soon be history in short order with Frawley and Prendergast going past him in the pecking order.

Squad depth is one thing but when the other province's are short on 10s why are these guys staying at Leinster where the bag log of internationally capped 10s is longer than most clubs have flyhalf options. Mad.

They are not cattle who can be forced to move, Humphreys has made that perfectly clear.
At the same time he has made it clear that if they choose to stay in Leisnters 2nd XV or 3rd XV they have no International future.

They make personal choices.

I do wonder if the likes of Deegan, Penny, Harry Byrne have any real desire to play top flight rugby though.

Deegan and Penny are getting game time and in an attritional position. 15 and 16 appearances for them last season. Settling for a squad position place is fairly unambitious but with Penny being 24 with Ruddock, Conan and VDF all into their thirties and Connors at 28 there's the chance for succession there.

Three international flyhalf options plus Ireland training squad member and former under 20. That's not settling for a squad role for two of those five that's settling to bring a training squad player or in Frawley's case just played out of position. Obviously can't force them to move but the IRFU do need to find a way to incentivise common sense.

[clivemcl]

You could almost forget about the fact that no club, even Leinster, want to squander money. As in, the simple fact they have contracts, and continue to get contracts suggests that Leinster themselves feel their position in the squad is valuable.
Nobody gives a living away for nothing.

And that's why ultimately the IRFU can only do and say so much. The only further step they could take would be to enforce a max number in each position across the provinces. Which ain't going to happen.

[geoff999rugby]

Deegan has not started a Championship Cup match since 2019/20
Penny has never started a Championship Cup game and has only come off the bench three times.
When the big game come up these two are not considered.

Connor will be ahead of Penny for years after de Flier retires
Deegan will be behind Baird as well as Doris who are both under 30.
Deegan is already 27.

They are reserves and happy to be so.
As a consequence they are  not in the frame for Ireland and rightly so.

Contrast with Prendergast and Timoney - both Leinster born.
Both went elsewhere and both ahead of Penny and Deegan in the Irish pecking order.
They got off their backsides and made things happen for themselves.

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