How much of tennis is played in the mind?

by User 774433 Sun 16 Sep 2012, 4:58 pm

SportPulse.net (my article): http://www.sportpulse.net/content/how-much-tennis-played-mind-4754

In my eyes there are five main aspects of tennis:
1. Tactics
2. Shot selection
3. Execution
4. Mental Energy levels
5. Physical Energy levels

If a tennis player can perfect these 5 aspects of his game, he has the perfect formula to be a successful tennis player. If you have good tactics and shot selection, but your execution is poor, then you will not be successful. If you have good shot selection and execution, but you do not work hard on your fitness, then your physical energy levels will decrease rapidly as the match progresses, negatively affecting your execution. Conversely a marathon runner could try and play tennis, but as fit as he is, unless he has the shots and the game to perform well, it would be useless.
So, back to the main theme, how much of tennis is played in the mind?

Firstly I believe tactics and shot selection need the mind. Especially shot selection. Tactics can be pre-planned when you are with your coach/ advisors. Target your opponents weaknesses, prepare a plan B if your first plan doesn't work.
But with shot selection you don't have this luxury. On that exact moment you have to make a decision. Do I slice this with my backhand? Or should I run around and try and hit a forehand DTL. Any hesitation, and you're toast. Also do keep in mind, that this decision has to be made in a split second. In tennis the ball is travelling fast, unlike golf you cannot stand for minutes observing all the different angles before completing your shot. Your mind must be quick, alert, and decisive.

So both 'tactics' and 'shot selection' are played out in the mind of tennis players, rather than the court. But what about the other aspects? Let's investigate energy levels.
Now there are two types of 'energy levels.' One if physical, another is mental. I believe the more important of the two is mental. It is very easy to get confused between the two though, and often they go hand in hand. Mental energy is the intensity you need to keep throughout the match. Mental energy is the strength to tell yourself when you have lost the first 2 sets that you can still come back. The players with the best mental strength can go to hell and back but still have the energy to compete. Nadal Wimbledon 2008. He gives everything in the first 2 sets. Wins them. Roger, the great champion that he is, fires back; edging the next 2 sets on close tie-breaks. In 2007 Nadal lost the fifth set to Federer at the same venue. After that match, Nadal cried in the locker-room, knowing he had missed his chance. Federer had won the last 5 Wimbledon titles. But Nadal does it. He gathers mental strength and energy from nowhere, and motivates himself to power on. A similar story in the USO final this year. Murray, who had failed so many times before, looked doomed again in a slam final. But in the toilet break at the end of the 4th set he told himself 'Go for it.' And he did. Arguably it was this mental strength which won him the slam, rather than his 'backhand' or 'forehand' etc. Belief is crucial.
And then we have physical fitness. Critical of course, if you are heading to a 5th set, as if you are tired your execution will suffer. Physical fitness is now more important than ever, as tennis players strive to be complete athletes. Work hard in the gym, put in the effort, as physical fitness is essential. On the other hand it can also be argued that if someone is just physically fit, but can't play tennis, this is no use. So physical fitness by itself is not very useful.

And then we come to execution, which many believe is the most important aspect of the game. In many ways they are right. You could have superb tactics, fantastic shot selection, and have lots of energy, but if you don't execute your shot well you won't win the point. For this skill you need to be very talented (in your hands), and of course practice a lot. If you can combine both these things, than in the practice court you can have perfect execution. But when it comes to a match scenario, another aspect comes into play: Mental strength (belief). Mentally you have to believe. In the crucial moments, you cannot doubt yourself. This is what I believe separates the 'best' from the 'rest.' The belief in the crucial moments, which enables a player to have perfect execution. Having talent, but not the mental strength, leaves you in the position of Richard Gasquet.

As Roger Federer once said 'I always knew I had it in my hands, but the real question was: did I have it in my head?'

So, is a tennis match mainly played out on the court, or in between the ears?
Personally I would say 60% of tennis is played in the mind. To be a great champion, you not only have to have the talent on court, but also a 'great mind.'

Amritia3ee

by socal1976 Sun 16 Sep 2012, 6:18 pm

Excellent post IMBL, I personally think that tennis is extremely mental, I don't know if I am comfortable putting a number on it like 60 percent as you have. Tennis is a sport that requires absolute focus of the mind to maximize any talent you may possess. Look at the players at the top yes they are all talented shotmakers and extremely well rounded players. But there are many players that serve bigger than them, or hit individual shots better than them. Yet, it comes down' to executing in situation filled with distraction and filled with pressure and fatigue that seperates the best from the rest. In terms of ball striking quality little separates a player ranked number 9, 19, 49 from the number 1 or 2 players in the world. But in belief, mental toughness, and warrior ethic that is where the true greats are made.

by User 774433 Sun 16 Sep 2012, 7:47 pm

socal1976 wrote:Excellent post IMBL, I personally think that tennis is extremely mental, I don't know if I am comfortable putting a number on it like 60 percent as you have. Tennis is a sport that requires absolute focus of the mind to maximize any talent you may possess. Look at the players at the top yes they are all talented shotmakers and extremely well rounded players. But there are many players that serve bigger than them, or hit individual shots better than them. Yet, it comes down' to executing in situation filled with distraction and filled with pressure and fatigue that seperates the best from the rest. In terms of ball striking quality little separates a player ranked number 9, 19, 49 from the number 1 or 2 players in the world. But in belief, mental toughness, and warrior ethic that is where the true greats are made.

Thanks Socal Ok!

I think the mind plays a huge role in sport, but especially tennis. This is because in tennis, due to the scoreboard, the many matches are decided in a few key moments. It's the players who can play their best game in these moments that are the champions.
We could have a 6-4 6-4 6-4 match, which in the news will be reported as an easy win.
But the BPs in each set could be: Player A- 1/1 1/1 1/1 and Player B 0/3 0/2 0/4. Total points won could be Player A 80-80 Player B.
Yet it will be reported a straight-forward win for the winner, which really shows the importance of mind in tennis.

by Mad for Chelsea Sun 16 Sep 2012, 8:17 pm

excellent question, and a very good post Amrit Very Happy

I've always believed tennis is probably more of a mental battle than any other sport. Interestingly, a friend who plays cricket with me - Clinton Ferreira - used to be a pro tennis player (never cracked it in singles, but was a good doubles player), and he always said tennis is a mental battle more than anything else. I think there's several reasons:

- at the end of the day, it's just you vs your opponent. Sure you can talk with your coach about tactics beforehand, but it's up to you to implement them, and if they're not working to change them around and find the winning formula. One of the main reasons I'm utterly against on-court coaching.

- what Amrit said about the scoring system means tight (or sometimes not so tight) matches hang on a few points. It's being able to bring your A game to those key points, or produce the big serve at the right time, that can mean the difference between winning and losing.

- on a similar level, prize money in tennis is purely on how far you get in a tournament. That means a few points can be the difference between enough money to see out the month or not (for the journeymen). Not such an impact on the top players granted, but think how much pressure you must feel say serving for the match if you're struggling to get by.

"Belief is crucial" Amrit says, and absolutely nails it right there. If you don't believe you're better than the other guy, and are going to win the match, then it's no point turning up...

by User 774433 Sun 16 Sep 2012, 8:35 pm

Mad for Chelsea wrote:excellent question, and a very good post Amrit

Thanks MFC thumbsup

Mad for Chelsea wrote:
I've always believed tennis is probably more of a mental battle than any other sport. Interestingly, a friend who plays cricket with me - Clinto Ferreira - used to be a pro tennis player (never cracked it in singles, but was a good doubles player), and he always said tennis is a mental battle more than anything else. I think there's several reasons:
- at the end of the day, it's just you vs your opponent. Sure you can talk with your coach about tactics beforehand, but it's up to you to implement them, and if they're not working to change them around and find the winning formula.

So so true. In tennis you have to find a solution by yourself, and you are on your own

Mad for Chelsea wrote:
- what Amrit said about the scoring system means tight (or sometimes not so tight) matches hang on a few points. It's being able to bring your A game to those key points, or produce the big serve at the right time, that can mean the difference between winning and losing.

"Belief is crucial" Amrit says, and absolutely nails it right there. If you don't believe you're better than the other guy, and are going to win the match, then it's no point turning up...

Indeed!
Nadal vs Ferrer Barcelona 2012 is a big example. Nadal wins 7-6 7-5. Ferrer had lots of set points in the first set, and only converted 3/15 BP opportunities. But in the key points Nadal raised his game, and that won him the match.

by socal1976 Sun 16 Sep 2012, 9:11 pm

Yes I agree with both MFC and Amiritia, tennis to me is the most mental. Because it is an individual sport first off you can not rely on a coach or another player to bail you out when you aren't feeling it. That is a crucial factor. A second factor also is of course what IMBL pointed to that the tight scoring system where matches are really decided on a few break points either way lends it self to the more confident and focused player winning a much higher percentage of the time.

Also one must look at the technical variety and chess aspect of tennis tactics as another mental intangible that the top players do so much better. Every opponent has textbook of the right way to play him to unlock him. And for the same opponent you may need multiple textbooks if he is a very up and down player or a very craft and varied player. The mentally more astute and focus tennis player will pick up on the tendencies and weaknesses of the other player faster and make the needed adjustment. This requires both knowledge, confidence, and the technical ability to pull off a variety of game plans. Tennis is in many ways a physical version of chess. You first take the middle and then try to attack your opponents weaker flanks.

by User 774433 Sun 16 Sep 2012, 10:30 pm

socal1976 wrote:Yes I agree with both MFC and Amiritia, tennis to me is the most mental. Because it is an individual sport first off you can not rely on a coach or another player to bail you out when you aren't feeling it. That is a crucial factor. A second factor also is of course what IMBL pointed to that the tight scoring system where matches are really decided on a few break points either way lends it self to the more confident and focused player winning a much higher percentage of the time.

Yes, I believe this is what separates the Top 5-10 from the Top 50.

socal1976 wrote:
Also one must look at the technical variety and chess aspect of tennis tactics as another mental intangible that the top players do so much better. Every opponent has textbook of the right way to play him to unlock him. And for the same opponent you may need multiple textbooks if he is a very up and down player or a very craft and varied player. The mentally more astute and focus tennis player will pick up on the tendencies and weaknesses of the other player faster and make the needed adjustment. This requires both knowledge, confidence, and the technical ability to pull off a variety of game plans. Tennis is in many ways a physical version of chess. You first take the middle and then try to attack your opponents weaker flanks.

by Henman Bill Sun 16 Sep 2012, 10:51 pm

Tennis is a mental game for me and it is a big factor.

by User 774433 Sun 16 Sep 2012, 11:20 pm

Henman Bill wrote:Tennis is a mental game for me and it is a big factor.

I agree absolutely.
Being able to step your game up in the key moments, and having the intensity.

Personally I believe mentally Nadal is the greatest, while in pure shot-making ability Federer is the greatest.

by bogbrush Sun 16 Sep 2012, 11:25 pm

Can anyone give an example of a sport that doesn't depend on mental strength or processes?

by User 774433 Sun 16 Sep 2012, 11:28 pm

bogbrush wrote:Can anyone give an example of a sport that doesn't depend on mental strength or processes?

All sports depend on mental strength to some degree.
But in team sports like football you have other players in your team, the pressure is not as much.
In tennis you also don't have a coach (in the ATP anyway) who can talk with you mid-match, if things go wrong you have to have the mental strength inside you to turn it around.

by lydian Sun 16 Sep 2012, 11:35 pm

Exactly. The use of the mind is actually use of the body...unless the brain is now defined as being outside the body!

All sports are hugely mental....whether its Sunday club leagues or major professional tournaments. It's the relative differences in mental focus and strength under extreme pressure that sorts out competitors across all levels. The stress top tennis pros feel compared to a Sunday leaguer is merely relative within their own level...both can feel under the same amount of pressure. We often put the professionals on too high a pedestal...there are amazing feats of mental strength going on all the time across loads of sports lower down. They just don't have the technique/ability of the top guys at actually playing the game.

by bogbrush Sun 16 Sep 2012, 11:36 pm

In football you have 10 colleagues but 11 opponents. If you're mentally weak you're a liability and the team will expel you.

In tennis you can only be defeated, not expelled. Also in tennis your opponent doesn't have access to a coach so he's handicapped.

Football doesn't look like an easier ride to me.

by User 774433 Mon 17 Sep 2012, 12:31 am

I agree that all sports need mental strength if you want to be successful.
We could compare the different sports, although that is not the topic of this article, it is an interesting comparison.
BB you say in tennis .your opponent doesn't have access to a coach so he's handicapped.. In my eyes this just makes it so that both players have more pressure on them.
Just because your opponent doesn't have a coach helping him, doesn't take pressure off you IMO.

Then we can go to cricket, where it can be argued the pressure for a batsman is much higher than for a bowler. When batting if you have on dip in concentration you can lose your wicket, and your innings is over. But for a bowler you bowl a poor spell, but one wicket in one delivery can make up for it.

BB, Lydian what do you think specifically about tennis. How important do you think the mind is as a factor?

by lydian Mon 17 Sep 2012, 8:26 am

I find it too hard to separate mental vs physical...one feeds the other, i.e. is a player strong in matches because they know their ground strokes or technique, or fitness never break down, or does being mentally strong mean can push that technique harder than others? Chicken and egg for me.

by barrystar Mon 17 Sep 2012, 9:17 am

lydian wrote:I find it too hard to separate mental vs physical...one feeds the other, i.e. is a player strong in matches because they know their ground strokes or technique, or fitness never break down, or does being mentally strong mean can push that technique harder than others? Chicken and egg for me.

Absolutely spot-on.

When Nadal sees Federer the other side of the net on a medium-slow court outdoors he knows his lefty topspin forehand to the Federer backhand will score in the long term probably 8 times out of 10, so he gains huge confidence and knows, for example, that if Federer goes on an impossible tear of form that he almost certainly can't keep up with the likelihood is that he'll be able hang on and win provided he sticks to his gameplan. Similarly when Fed faces Nadal indoors on a medium-fast surface at the WTF he must take confidence from that knowing that his backhand is now a considerable weapon and that Nadal has never beaten him in such conditions.

The bottom line is that any top-class tennis player, let alone a multi-slam winner, has and needs huge mental strength, they need to get themselves up to win match after match when they are tired, have a niggle, have had a week when nothing seems to go quite right in practice, or perhaps wake up wondering what's the point of it all. They have won plenty of clutch points - extracting themselves from bp's and winning bp's or tie-breakers. Part of the reason why they practice and practice and practice is that they need confidence in a honed technique and a gameplan so that when they need to draw on reserves of mental strength they have something real and concrete to rely upon as part of feeling confident - that they don't face the additional pressure of needing to make it up as they go along.

Attempts to extract a player's "talent" or his "mental strength" from the make up of his game usually says more about the writer and his prejudices than the player and his game - some like to portray Federer as an effete but talented player who can't hack real pressure, others like to portray Nadal as an extraordinary warrior who can win on strength of will alone. Both are grossly one-sided over-simplifcations.

by dummy_half Mon 17 Sep 2012, 9:23 am

It's an interesting discussion, although as Lydian says, it's difficult to show a clear distinction between the mental and physical sides of the game. After all, execution of skills under pressure is as much a mental ability as a physical one: it is no fluke that Sampras or Federer so often pull off an ace or unreturnable serve break point down - as much to do with the space between the ears as the ability in the racket.

I do suspect that the most significant factor that separates the best from the good is mentality - a combination of mental toughness, coolness under pressure and self belief (whether from belief in your shotmaking ability as with Federer or in your tactics and execution as with Nadal).

by User 774433 Mon 17 Sep 2012, 11:22 am

I do agree with Lydain's sentiments that mental belief is very much linked to how good your game is.
You are much more likely to have belief you are going to win, if your ability is good enough, and you have the shots.

However it is not black and white. This isn't always the case- Gasquet for example has the shots, but mentally doesn't have the focus or intensity needed to become a champion. David Ferrer has a stunning intensity, but doesn't necessary have an array of shots like others in the Top 20.

by bogbrush Mon 17 Sep 2012, 11:44 am

It Must Be Love wrote:I do agree with Lydain's sentiments that mental belief is very much linked to how good your game is.
You are much more likely to have belief you are going to win, if your ability is good enough, and you have the shots.

However it is not black and white. This isn't always the case- Gasquet for example has the shots, but mentally doesn't have the focus or intensity needed to become a champion. David Ferrer has a stunning intensity, but doesn't necessary have an array of shots like others in the Top 20.

Do we know that's what ails Gasquet? Perhaps he doesn't have the fitness or reliability of shot production; such weaknesses would play on the mind and lead to lapses. We'd then say he's a mental midget, but perhaps with such frailities in their game Nadal or Federer would be the same. I've certainly seen Nadal look very despondent when he's in a position that he knows he has no hope in; the WTF last year was an example where by the end he seemed accepting of his fate.

Speaking personally, I know I can appear massively determined in business but in reality I know that to a large extent that depends on my confidence that I know what I'm doing; if I'm in a situation that I truly believe I can't win then I'm as prone to being despondent as anyone (I just keep myself away from that position as much as I can!).

by erictheblueuk Mon 17 Sep 2012, 12:35 pm

It Must Be Love wrote:In my eyes there are five main aspects of tennis:
1. Tactics
2. Shot selection
3. Execution
4. Mental Energy levels
5. Physical Energy levels

Shouldn't "5. Physical Energy levels" must rate higher ?

Watching Novak in the USO 2012 final, he got everything right when he came back from 2 sets down but he just didn't have the physical energy to keep it up in the fifth set.

The main reason sportsmen retire and end their careers , apart from injury, is that they just don't have the physical energy anymore.

by User 774433 Mon 17 Sep 2012, 5:15 pm

Eric, good to see you firstly thumbsup

When I listed the 5 aspects I didn't mean to put them in order of importance or anything, I just listed the 5 aspects.
I don't know which is the most important, although it is clear that all the 5 aspects are linked in different ways.

by User 774433 Mon 17 Sep 2012, 5:35 pm

bogbrush wrote:
It Must Be Love wrote:I do agree with Lydain's sentiments that mental belief is very much linked to how good your game is.
You are much more likely to have belief you are going to win, if your ability is good enough, and you have the shots.

However it is not black and white. This isn't always the case- Gasquet for example has the shots, but mentally doesn't have the focus or intensity needed to become a champion. David Ferrer has a stunning intensity, but doesn't necessary have an array of shots like others in the Top 20.
Do we know that's what ails Gasquet? Perhaps he doesn't have the fitness or reliability of shot production; such weaknesses would play on the mind and lead to lapses. We'd then say he's a mental midget, but perhaps with such frailities in their game Nadal or Federer would be the same. I've certainly seen Nadal look very despondent when he's in a position that he knows he has no hope in; the WTF last year was an example where by the end he seemed accepting of his fate.

Speaking personally, I know I can appear massively determined in business but in reality I know that to a large extent that depends on my confidence that I know what I'm doing; if I'm in a situation that I truly believe I can't win then I'm as prone to being despondent as anyone (I just keep myself away from that position as much as I can!).

BB, as a whole I would agree with your sentiments, that belief and shot-making ability are inherently interlinked.
Over the years on 606, across different forums, I have seen 2 possible versions of how to explain the difference in mentality between the top 100.

1 argument is:
The top players are just naturally more talented it than the rest, this is why they are champions. Their great mentality and belief comes from the fact that they know they are the best, and they know they have the ability.

But another opposing view could be:
The difference in talent and shots between around top 10 and the top 50 is not actually that huge, but what separates the top few is their mentality. The champions have a great mentality, and this is what divides them, and makes them champions. Whether it's the environment they were growing up in (compare the hard force of Uncle Toni and the difficulties that Djoko had to go through in Serbia, to the upbringing of Gulbis) or they could have just been born with it.

by lydian Mon 17 Sep 2012, 5:40 pm

Tennis, like golf, is perhaps unique in terms of the range and wealth of technique needed to excel at the sport. Other ball sports dont come close in my opinion....and certainly not Matthew Syed's table tennis.

Where technique is involved on such a large court/pitch/course there is always the possibility for technique to break down. Stopping technique from breaking down under pressure for me is a sign of mental strength, but its also a sign of drilled practice. However, concerted drilled practice over years also requires mental strength!

But I cant say how much tennis is mental in terms of % points...clearly its huge. An article a few years back looked at why top tennis players were successful. It boiled down to 3 mental things:

1. High levels of repressive coping....i.e. can handle/suppress huge amounts of pressure
2. Low level of neuroticism....i.e. dont worry much about things going wrong
3. Able to switch between high or low levels of hypnotic susceptibility...high to stay focused in the moment when necessary...low when needed to change game plans mid-match.

by barrystar Mon 17 Sep 2012, 6:00 pm

I have put this newspaper reference on the "Myth of Talent" thread because I think it's relevant to that thread too - Agassi making an A*se of himself saying in 1992 that Courier is all about hard work and no talent....

http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=110&dat=19920606&id=Rg1QAAAAIBAJ&sjid=RlUDAAAAIBAJ&pg=5630,5449256

by socal1976 Mon 17 Sep 2012, 6:13 pm

lydian wrote:Tennis, like golf, is perhaps unique in terms of the range and wealth of technique needed to excel at the sport. Other ball sports dont come close in my opinion....and certainly not Matthew Syed's table tennis.

Where technique is involved on such a large court/pitch/course there is always the possibility for technique to break down. Stopping technique from breaking down under pressure for me is a sign of mental strength, but its also a sign of drilled practice. However, concerted drilled practice over years also requires mental strength!

But I cant say how much tennis is mental in terms of % points...clearly its huge. An article a few years back looked at why top tennis players were successful. It boiled down to 3 mental things:

1. High levels of repressive coping....i.e. can handle/suppress huge amounts of pressure
2. Low level of neuroticism....i.e. dont worry much about things going wrong
3. Able to switch between high or low levels of hypnotic susceptibility...high to stay focused in the moment when necessary...low when needed to change game plans mid-match.

I agree there is no comparison to how multi layered and mental tennis is when compared to most other sports. Lydian is absolutely correct here. The suggestion that every sport is mental and tennis is no different is in my mind incorrect. The fact that it is one on one sport, the fact that there is so much technique involved, so much strategy involved, and the battle you have to go through on an island makes it way more mental and psychologically involved than lets say ping pong, or football, or basketball. Of course every sport is mental, no champion at the highest levels is mentally weak. But tennis has so many more layers of thought and focus involved. I mean you can play American football and at most you could play 10 or 20 plays a game representing a very specialized and limited contribution. Teams have longsnappers on their team whose only job is that he is really good at pitching the ball back to the kicker at the proper height and spin for him to catch and kick. Every sport has a large psychological aspect but singles tennis is among the highest.

by lydian Mon 17 Sep 2012, 6:23 pm

Tennis players know that 2mm can make the difference between winning or losing a match on a hawkeye challenge, or net cord...on a 78ft court! Thats how fine or precise matches can get.

Its things like this that make some players go, or not go, for their shots at critical times. Tennis due to its large court dimensions, scoring system where the other player can always come back, multi-hour duration, 1-on-1 combat infront of 20,000 fans, no coach - just the person out there having to focus amongst everything else for along time, and those knife-edge in or out shot results put a huge demand on mental ability.

And all this makes it surely one of the best sports to watch.

by barrystar Mon 17 Sep 2012, 6:29 pm

Add to Lydian and Socal's points the scoring system in Tennis, which has two main effects:

(a) The fact that you have to finish a match playing winning tennis; you can't build up a big advantage and then scrape your way home playing worse than your opponent relying on having built up an unassailable lead at a time of slightly less pressure as you can in so many other sports (Golf included). Even with an early break in the last set you still have to serve out.

(b) The fact that the basic unit of a game turns on relatively few points means that there is potential for there to be many pressure points throughout the match as well as a build up of intensity during each separate set for so long as there is no clear lead.

by lydian Mon 17 Sep 2012, 6:31 pm

Yep barry...its a completely unique scoring system...almost genius in a way. Or rather hindsight makes it appear that way. But what a wonderful sport to challenge the mind and body...no wonder its the largest participated sport, i.e people playing rather than watching, in the world Wink

by socal1976 Mon 17 Sep 2012, 6:36 pm

Exactly, lydian and Barry tennis is chess where most other sports are checkers or at best backgammon. There is a lot of strategy involved in backgammon, I am lethal backgammon player. But comparing the strategy of backgammon to chess is like a whole different level. Tennis is like that as well the scoring system that creates a series of pressure points throughout the match and requires absolute focus throughout most of the match is another major factor. It is a truely genius scoring system for building drama.

by User 774433 Mon 17 Sep 2012, 6:47 pm

Barrystar, Lydian, Socal absolutely fantastic points clap

I agree that in tennis, due to the scoring system, a continuous intensity is crucial.

Could it then be argued that this intensity, which is of course played 'in the mind', is one of the thing which separates the top players from the rest.

by User 774433 Mon 17 Sep 2012, 6:48 pm

Without turning this into a Fedal debate, I have seen many occasions in the past, where Federer has a lapse of concentration. In his prime quite a lot, but more often now he is older. Just throws in a few casual games where he makes sloppy errors, gives away a few games, before pulling himself up and getting back to business.
Sometimes it costs him.

Edit: Not that I am saying he has not got great mental strength, of course as a great champion Federer has, having played for so long so well at the top of the game, but his slips and lapses of concentration are still there,.

by barrystar Mon 17 Sep 2012, 6:56 pm

It Must Be Love wrote:Barrystar, Lydian, Socal absolutely fantastic points

I agree that in tennis, due to the scoring system, a continuous intensity is crucial.

Could it then be argued that this intensity, which is of course played 'in the mind', is one of the thing which separates the top players from the rest.

It's terribly circular though - if your technique is properly grooved and your gameplan and ability to switch it properly worked out and practised beforehand and you have total confidence in your fitness the necessary mental intensity probably comes more easily at those crucial points. Mental strength also includes the gumption to work hard in preparation for a match.

by lydian Mon 17 Sep 2012, 7:34 pm

Absolutely Barry, and this also harks back to the points we made this morning - so terribly circular indeed, lol Very Happy

by User 774433 Mon 17 Sep 2012, 8:10 pm

Indeed Lydian, we keep on going back to the chicken and the egg scenario! Chef

Anyway, to see this in a different light, which one of the five aspects mentioned in the article do you think is most important in this day and age of tennis? i.e. if you could have the power to perfect one of those five, which would it be?

I know they are all interlinked, so it is a complex question

by lydian Mon 17 Sep 2012, 9:55 pm

Yes they're interlinked....tactics is arguably mental, as is execution partially....so I don't think it's an answerable question really. But in general the mental side has to be the biggest element of the game at the highest level, even though it's a more physical era. Generally where the mind leads, the body follows.

by User 774433 Tue 18 Sep 2012, 12:13 am

lydian wrote:Yes they're interlinked....tactics is arguably mental, as is execution partially....so I don't think it's an answerable question really. But in general the mental side has to be the biggest element of the game at the highest level, even though it's a more physical era. Generally where the mind leads, the body follows.

Can't disagree with that thumbsup

by User 774433 Tue 18 Sep 2012, 1:48 pm

An interesting question which Murray fans (and others) may like to answer!

What was the main factor behind Murray's US Open victory, which sealed his first Grand Slam:
a) Mentally Murray improved- Lendl played a big role in Murray's mentality change which ensured he was tougher in the key moments.
b) Physical fitness- Murray trained hard had got physically fitter- this made a key difference in the 5th set where Murray did not run out of steam.
c) Shot-making- Murray's improved forehand and second serve was vital for him to secure an all round secure game.
d) All the above had equal importance

by Calder106 Tue 18 Sep 2012, 2:01 pm

The mental aspect IMO. Here's why

Over the tournament he played 6 tie breaks and won them all despite being behind in all of them at some stage.

Played Berdych and Djokovic in very windy conditions but whereas previously he would moaning away about it and got distracted he just adjusted his game to the conditions.

In the final 4-0 in set 2 then pulled back to 5-5. Previously would probably have folded went on to win the set 7-5.

Pulled back to 2 sets each. Again would probably have folded previously. Refocused and played a good fifth set.

Two breaks and 3-0 up in set 5. Pulled backed to 3-2. Worryig times. Serves 4 huge first serves to hold to love and go 4-2 up.

Whatever happened during the tournament (and yes he had some poor matches) he just seemed to have that determination that he was not going to lose.

by User 774433 Sun 28 Oct 2012, 11:36 am

We were talking about Nalbandian on another thread, and I think this aspect may have played a big part in his 'lack' of success.

Bogbrush and a few others earlier argued that 'mental strength' just comes from your level of play.
If you are a brilliant player, you will have confidence in that, and hence have the 'mentality of a champion.' Meanwhile if you aren't so good, you won't have this mentality.

But what do you think about Nalbandian? He had all the shots, he had the talent, but yet he never managed to win a slam and could only get to 1 slam final.
In the WTF, I think 2005, he showed that when he turns it on he can be almost unbeatable, but he never seemed to perform well in the biggest events.

So this raises the question, does Nalbandian's lack of success in majors come due to the mental aspect, or was it something else?

by Born Slippy Sun 28 Oct 2012, 7:58 pm

Tennis is, to a large degree, played in the mind. I am a relatively decent player. I've played against two of the current Brit top 20. If I am down about my game, I struggle to hit the ball with authority. If I am confident I feel I can nail any shot. The top players will obviously have less variation than me but, at that level, I'd have thought any mental doubt makes a massive difference.

In relation to Nalbandian, there are other issues which also hold him back, but there is no doubt in a couple of big matches the mental side kicked in. That said, I partially agree with BB. Fednever struck me as that mentally strong but when his level of play went off the scale the mental side also improved massively. Now, his belief he will win big points, makes a massive difference in some of the closer matches he plays. The best have both talent and mental fortitude.

by socal1976 Sun 28 Oct 2012, 8:22 pm

Yes having talent will make you more confident, Tennis is a very mental game because of the nature of the one on competition and the need to construct and execute a good game plan. However your ability is what gives you the belief in the first place, so everything is interrerelated. Murray showed that it was all about fortitude and continuing to play through the ups and downs. That belief certainly came from his experience of having pushed to the final time and time again till he finally got it right.

by lydian Sun 28 Oct 2012, 10:01 pm

We often talk about talent and mentality as separate elements but for me having a strong mindset is also talent. Its what separates the top 4 from all the others, not ball striking talent...they have an in-built belief they will win, and can play break point down like any other point. They unafraid of winning, taking the constant lead, and have a perfectionist profile that stands out from other players...their standards are more exacting. I agree attributes are interrelated but it's belief that drives the best players on and they've probably had 'it' since they were 8-10 years old. Often the best pros players weren't the best junior ball strikers...likewise the best juniors at 12-14 won't be the best top 10 pros.

by socal1976 Sun 28 Oct 2012, 10:13 pm

I agree Lydian there isn't a clear line between physical and mental after all the mind is a part of the body and subject to genetic differences as well. In my opinion the guys who in on the tour are not only high level ball striking and physical talents, they also have to have great tennis minds and have to be bright. I bet all of the top 4 are of average or better intelligence as well as being great athletes, I am not saying they can do high end physics. But that being smart is a big plus in a tennis player because there are no subsitutions or coaches you got to think right and train right to win. And that takes a person who is at least smart enouh to get that.

by lydian Sun 28 Oct 2012, 10:22 pm

I would agree, the top 4 come across as that little bit more circumspect and bigger picture than the others. I guess it's all part of why they're at the top. When you look down the years all the #1s are bright cookies, to stay at the top they have to be able to assess and act on all manner of information given and gleaned from mental and physical bases.

by socal1976 Sun 28 Oct 2012, 10:45 pm

lydian wrote:I would agree, the top 4 come across as that little bit more circumspect and bigger picture than the others. I guess it's all part of why they're at the top. When you look down the years all the #1s are bright cookies, to stay at the top they have to be able to assess and act on all manner of information given and gleaned from mental and physical bases.

Yes i agree with that for certain I can't think of a single number 1 in tennis who has been anything but very smart and engaging. Rios, who I don't really even consider a number 1 kind of seemed to be a real arrogant jerk to the point of stupidity but he is about the only one I can think of. Tennis is so straegic and also detail oriented it favors a great athlete who has a brain. Mcenroe, Lendl, Courier all these guys have gone to show their smarts and acumen. Agassi in his book talks down his own intelligence a great deal but he strikes me as a very emotionally acute individual who gets people and how to build loyalty and a following among people, that is a form of intelligence as well. Laver, you can tell is a really smart guy, he gets that as the greatest old guy he looks so much better by telling everybody that today's boys are amazing. He understands his relationship as almost a father figure to the game and to these players and that modern pro game itself is his legacy, I mean if one player gave birth to it would be Laver and what he accomplished, being so great that his absence almost invalidated the prestige of the slams. All of them very smart, even Connors he was very brilliant in his own vicious way.

by User 774433 Sun 28 Oct 2012, 11:04 pm

Some fantastic points all round guys clap

What do you think about Murray though. His shots were already really good, ok his 2nd serve became slightly better, and he was more risky with his forehand; but for me the reason he won the USO was mainly his mentality was better, he believed in himself in the key moments.

by socal1976 Sun 28 Oct 2012, 11:11 pm

I agree IMBL mental strength pulled him through that fierce competition and wind storm conditions. Although this year his second serve is better in my mind. Just look at Novak's return numbers against second serve against murray from the semi at the AO 2012 and then compare that to his numbers at the USO 2012 final.

by User 774433 Mon 29 Oct 2012, 1:13 pm

socal1976 wrote:I agree IMBL mental strength pulled him through that fierce competition and wind storm conditions. Although this year his second serve is better in my mind. Just look at Novak's return numbers against second serve against murray from the semi at the AO 2012 and then compare that to his numbers at the USO 2012 final.

In the AO I felt Murray was tiring more towards the end, but in the last set of USO you could see Djokovic didn't have much left in the tank.
I know Murray's second serve has improved, but I think a bigger factor towards his improvement was his mental strength. They crucial moment was the first set TB, and the old Murray would have lost that (and gone on to fold).

by User 774433 Tue 18 Dec 2012, 1:55 am

A fantastic article I found on Google, which discusses tips on how to improve mental performance in tennis.
Which players do you think use these:
http://www.personalbestconsulting.com/article_63.html

Secret #1: Mental Rituals

Mental rituals are the cognitive counterparts to physical rituals. Just as you probably do the same thing every morning upon waking (get up, go the bathroom, brush your teeth, etc) to start your day out right, it is equally important that you understand the power of mental rituals.

Mental rituals are important for one central reason: They soothe and pacify us emotionally. In sports, and in tennis, we play our best when we are in a relaxed state of mind, avoiding undue muscle tension that results from a case of the nerves.

A mental ritual could be any of the following:

fixing the strings on your racket while waiting for your opponent to serve
reciting cue words to yourself to keep you focused on the point at hand
going to your towel behind the baseline after tough points to gather yourself and prepare anew
tracking thoughts between games and sets in a notebook for use at a later time in evaluating your game

Secret #2: Selective Amnesia.
Do I need to see my doctor to diagnose this?

First off, no, you don't need a doctor to diagnose selective amnesia. Just ask any person that has been in a long-term relationship about their significant other's recall abilities, and you will discover that this "disorder" is quite common and highly useful situationally. Selective amnesia is merely taking conscious control over those experiences that you allow to affect you. Top tennis players have developed this ability, and use it to put bad points, games, or sets behind them. The fact that they don't allow much room in their memory banks for painful playing experiences allows them to free up room for the storage of positive experiences.

Keys to self-induced selective amnesia:

ask yourself "Is this something that is beneficial to mentally beat myself up over?" after tough or difficult points/games/matches. Your answer should always be a resounding no.
make a point to find the positives each time you compete, and store them for recall at a later point when you are feeling less-than-confident.
remember that memory is a reconstructive process. The mind remembers what it wants to remember, down to the detail. It then goes about filling in the gaps between these "flashbulb" memories. Make sure your flashbulb memories are positive ones, even if you have to do some "mental editing."

Secret #3: Focus Control

There is only one thing you truly need to focus on in tennis: the ball. Otherwise, you can easily become distracted by other details, such as your opponent, the weather, the crowd, the fact that you are behind by three games, etc. When I attend tennis tournaments or matches, I can quickly predict with accurate results which players are true competitors, as they have a single-minded focus on getting to each and every ball hit their way. They become oblivious to the world outside of their game.

Keys to improving your tennis focus:

make a list of all the potential distractions to your tennis play, in order to better avoid them
remember that sets are won through winning games, which are won through winning points. Take each point individually and separately. "One point at a time" is a great mental affirmation to utilize.
Deliberately tell parents, siblings, friends, and others who may serve as distractions to lay low during your matches. Though they usually mean well, they can become just another distraction.
Practice playing with distractions in order to learn how to ignore them. Loud music, people on the court next to you, outdoors, etc. The more distractions you can throw at yourself during practice and learn how to ignore, the tougher you'll be to "crack" when the pressure is on.

Secret #4: Emotion Management

Tennis is a game in which emotion plays a crucial role. Ideally, it should also play a limited role. In my work with dozens of collegiate tennis players, I have come to the conclusion that emotion can become an acid that eats away at your performance. Not that there isnt a place for a barbaric yelp after winning a tough point or match, but emotional players wear themselves out. The constant up and down of the emotional roller coaster takes a heavy toll on the psyche of tennis players, leaving them drained and unable to gather the strength needed later in the match.

Therefore, emotion management is crucial to your success as a tennis player. Learn to take the emotion out of each point. Depersonalize the competition-your job is to merely win points, not pass judgement on them or yourself for doing so. Top surgeons and airline pilots learn to focus strictly on the tasks at hand rather than the emotion of the situation, allowing them to work more effectively. You should do the same.

Keys to improving your emotion management skills:

stick to the task at hand (hitting the ball, winning the point, etc) rather than the emotion of the situation ("If I lose this point, I'm in deep trouble!").
If you must be emotional, do so during stoppages. Make it short and sweet, and move on. Almost like a mental sneeze, if you will!
realize that tennis can be a game of momentum swings. Allow your opponents emotion to get in their way, and take advantage of those opportunities by staying level-headed.

Secret #5: Acting

What does acting have to do with tennis? Everything! To play a part convincingly, professional actors and actresses need to "be" their roles. They become the person they are being paid to portray (I heard that Tom Hanks had a hard time losing his drawl after filming Forrest Gump in 1994). So, too, must you play a character in competition. The role you must play is the role of the always- confident tennis player.

Tennis is usually a zero-sum game with regards to confidence. This means that the more confident you are, the less confident your opponent feels. It makes them doubt themselves, and they start thinking about everything but the task at hand. On occasion you will find two competitors that understand the importance of acting confident at all times on the court, but this seldom occurs outside of professional tennis. You must learn to "act" confident, even if you are not feeling so confident on the inside. Don't give your opponent any more confidence than they already have-make them earn it through their play.

Keys to improving your acting abilities:

Think of yourself as someone who is out there to play a role, and then do it.
Exude confidence in every aspect of your behavior-your voice, your posture, your behavior between points and on changeovers, etc.
Take a mental inventory of your unique individual strengths (quickness, soft hands, strong serve, conditioning, etc) prior to playing. This will allow you to base your confidence in reality, and is a great stepping stone to acting more confident.

by barrystar Tue 18 Dec 2012, 11:22 am

It Must Be Love wrote:A fantastic article I found on Google, which discusses tips on how to improve mental performance in tennis.
Which players do you think use these:
http://www.personalbestconsulting.com/article_63.html

This will allow you to base your confidence in reality, and is a great stepping stone to acting more confident.

This struck me as the most important sentence in that extract. Mental strength starts with the belief, the insistance, that you will be #1 and to admit that to yourself and to use it to generate the will to go that extra mile in training, not just working hard until you are close to collapse, but being prepared to be innovative, to hear some hard home truths about your techniqe and work on it all the time, to be efficient about your training, to understand your strengths and how to maximise them and so on. It's about not being frightened to set yourself a lofty goal that you may well fail.

Bravado and bluster on court is going to do you no good unless you have appreciated that it is a 24/7 business and you have harnessed it to get yourself ready, I mean really ready, so that your readiness can feed back into your mental strength on the day. Nadal exmplifies this - when he knows he is not where he wants to be he looks quite different to when he's truly "on".

I agree with those that have said that the top 4 go about their business in a different way to the rest and it shows.

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