All Black squad for Arg/ SA Rc matches named

http://www.allblacks.com/news/20553/AllBlacks-squad-announced-for-Pumas-and-Boks

Forwards:

Hookers
Andrew Hore and Keven Mealamu.

Props
Charlie Faumuina, Ben Franks, Owen Franks and Tony Woodcock.

Locks
Brodie Retallick, Luke Romano and Samuel Whitelock.

Loose forwards
Sam Cane, Richie McCaw (captain), Liam Messam, Kieran Read, Adam Thomson and Victor Vito.

Backs:

Halfbacks
Aaron Smith and Piri Weepu.

First five–eighths
Beauden Barrett, Daniel Carter (vice–captain) and Aaron Cruden.

Midfielders
Tamati Ellison, Ma'a Nonu and Conrad Smith.

Outside backs
Israel Dagg, Hosea Gear, Cory Jane, Ben Smith and Julian Savea.

I reckon decision to take three 10's over an extra prop is an odd one considering the two sides they'll go up against, the engine room needing to be as strong as it possibly can be. Seems we are yet again covering for Carter's injuries.

I think NZ don't have another option at Prop is another possibility?

We do have props,its just that it would be foolhardy to use them.

Surely the point is why those 4 props.,3 are regulars why drop the 4th Crockett who is a world class loosehead .For one with due respect that is S15 at best?
Presumeably Read will be used as a 4th Lock if required?Carter has been passed fit to travel? or play?4 props would be the norm for most squads.It seems to me that thinking is give Carter another 3 weeks and start him against the Boks.The other two will start versus Argentina, Cruden people may think has overtaken Carter as the NZ 10.Not on what I have seen he has looked solid at best and does`nt have his kicking game yet.Seems most in NZ have written him off,in the same way McCaw was spoken of a few weeks ago.RM made them think twice maybe DC will too?

Emack
With Northern hemisphere refs its pointless using Wyatt Crockrtt and Ben Tamiefuna.

That is a lot of loose forwards for 2 games. Reality is that 2 of them won't ever be required to even wear a tracksuit let alone get on the field.

Cruden has rather flatlined- perhaps since SBW left. Talk is Beauden Barrett is potentially number two and I would argue with that either. I like the three of them. Barrett does seem to just slot in so easily. Better than we've had in a while...

We'll be in the same pos with our 9's next year.

nganboy wrote:That is a lot of loose forwards for 2 games. Reality is that 2 of them won't ever be required to even wear a tracksuit let alone get on the field.

I'd like to see Tamati Ellison get more of a run too. We really are short on 12 and 13 after Nonu and Smith.

How about try Barrett at 12 eh?
a kicking, play making, gap finding 12: wouldn't that be a novelty.
Just imagine
9 Smith
10 Carter
11 Jane
12 Barrett
13 Smith
14 Smith
15 Dagg

Reserves when all available
Perenara
Cruden
Ellison/Kahui/Taylor

All speed and skill get rid of all the big bash boys

Observations firstly I think 6 loose forwards have been picked as insurance for Lock cover.Read would be the 4th Lock,Thomson as the best Lineout Option at 8.Cane may get time versus the Pumas with RM going to 6,or start Cane at 6.
Since the loss of Aron Mauger the traditional 5/8 system has been abandoned with NH style basher at 12 creator at 13 .Nonu is a prime example,BUT HE has a kicking game if he chooses to use it.The 10/12/15 position NZ has so much depth it`s ridiculous.All those last few years under 20 RWC winners coming into Super squads.Players like Anscombe,Taylor,Bleyendahl,Robbie Robiinson[10 is his preferred position].Not to mention Slade,Cruden,Barrett and Dan the man.Its like buses for years theres been none for ages,now there is 4 at a time.

Wondering if DC is going to play Argentina at all or if they'll keep him in cotton wool for the Soweto game. I'd lik eto see him play both but since Barrett's going that could well happen.

Who are the refs for those two games by the way?

Barrett at 12 someone has suggested?

That sounds pretty good. In fact, you could see him forging a strong partnership outside Cruden or Carter and inside...wait for it Robbie Fruean! Having a playmaker inside at 12 would allow the selectors to use a game buster on the outside whereas the Nonu/Smith combo is the reverse.

I’m not saying it could happen but there’s certainly scope for this partnership if they’re looking to develop new centres.

Freuan's a weird one for me. I'm still really worried about him defensively but it's something he can definitely work on. Wish he had Wayne Smith to help him out. Sadly I think by the time he does improve enough to merit inclusion he may well have become disillusioned enough to sign a European contract.

We need one of our centres to break the advantage line and we'll lose a lot of ball if we don't have go forward bue to getting caught behind the advantage line. So I don't think Barrett should be considered at anything other than 10 and maybe 15 at a pinch.

I hope Barrett gets some game time at least. Cruden has failed to deliver and looks to be missing his team mate SBW. The kid looks composed at this level and if he's in the squad, then get him on the park. Cruden is hardly bursting with experience and I don't think he played well enough to warrant staying on. I know you disagree with me Alan but sometimes you have to take a punt like what has been done with Aaron Smith.

I like how Tamati Ellison has been included. He could be a centre of the future and I like what I've seen of him. Someone with great strength and able to break the advantage line. I remember reading Nonu was going to make an announcement on his future in two weeks so we must be close to that. There are a few players like McCaw, Carter, Smith, Hore and Mealamu who aren't going to be around for much longer so it'd be good to at least have that in mind in the coming years to put potential players in the frame now in some bench capacity. The centre partnership has been stable for years but you only need to look at Ireland to see the dangers of that for the long term.

I also read that there were going to be no bolters from the ITM making the AI squad. I really hope that doesn't include Hoeata as he's already toured and might be classed as fringe. He's playing well at Taranaki and can be a six and cover for lock. We need to look at an alternative to Messam and sadly Thomson doesn't balance the backrow with McCaw and Read in the side. He isn't combative enough.

This all seems crazy to this Wales fan. There's been a glut of threads/posts about AB dominance "another level" " strength in depth" the "lost generation who can't get the jersey going abroad for international honours" . Now you look at this squad and it's the same old same old. People moaning about RM and DC and Cruden's not up to it. People used to talk about Wales like this. Ffs lighten up or are the ABs human after all? Gives me hope for Wales in November!

When you come to depend on a constant supply of wins Don, you get cagey thinking about threats to those victories and when you win on a regular basis you tend to focus more on performance rather than the end result.

But don't worry. With the Black Caps we know all about life on the other side of the equation. There or thereabouts but frustratingly inconsistent and just lacking that mental discipline at key times.

But I'll give you hope. You may win against Australia this November. You may also beat the ABs. But we'll all sleep safe in the knowledge that regardless of the result, Wales on their day would have beaten them both regardless of which Wallaby or AB side turned up.

Kia,you talk as though 30 is old age to make the statement you`ve made with modern Sports medicine is naive.I would`nt in the least surprised to see DC,RM ,and CS run out RWC 2015.Hore/Mealamu definitely not but thhe rest every chance.

Well I admire your optimism Alan. You could be well right but I think we need to prepare at least for the prospect of those 3 wise men not turning up in 2015. Indeed, if we can find viable alternatives for them we would be doing them a service by managing their workloads correctly. The way Richie snatched that ball off the post last weekend shows he's not very good at managing himself in that regard.

The point is Kia.Ritchie played for the full 80 minutes plus,his value to the ABs is beyond price.He could ask his own price in the NH and Japan but he has publicly stated he wants to finish his career in NZ.There are players who can cover 7 or 10,or whatever but as YET the cannot take over.This season more than ever RM has showed his worth,last year on one leg he was "Captain Courageous".This he is "Captain Fantastic" he only knows one way follow me
the win stats when he plays are ridiculous.More important when matches are tight he calls the right options. RWC 2015 who cares? I might not be around to see it.Just keep on winning that will do me bringing in the new boys as required
not for the sake of doing it.Matt Todd is a more complete 7 than Cane and would like to see him given game time.Wonder if Perenara when fit will be given a chance to start at 9.

Interesting litle comment in there Emack.

I was watching Sam Cane last night in the Hawkes Bay V Bay Of plenty game and for mine I thought he was pretty ordinary, maybe he was saving himself for the ride in the big silver bird today.

My point is Alan, if you manage Richie smartly, then we get to see more of him in a black shirt. Regardless of whether he makes the 2015 RWC or not, I'd rather see more years of him being in the AB environment than burning down his wick the fastest now. The guy doesn't really know much about self preservation on the field. Thankfully we've seen him recover from the foot injury last night and he has been instrumental this 4N. We'd be a bit lost without him now. I think in test rugby he's instrumental. What I'd like to see is his Crusaders duties curtailed as next year the season starts even earlier due to the Lions tour. So after the autumn tour rest him to April. Give himself a proper break and like Carter make sure any niggling injuries are sorted and not to play them when they're not right.

Hansen said today that they want to manage McCaw so that he makes 2015, he used the term 'sabbatical' to be used between now and then. Will probably just mean joining the s15 late but could mean missing one whole season altogether

In my opinion for what it is worth the Super comp expansion has been at the expense of the test arena.To have one finish 14 days before a RWC was ludicrous but then i`m not a bean counter.The problem is two fold obviously the franchises want to do well so rotation of players is rare.BUT the Super system is used as a test trial now those have gone out of fashion.The top 2 franchises form the basis of the test side usually.Crusaders/Hurricanes and Blues/Stormers have been the basis of NZ/SA teams for example.In the Hurricanes case players may now be at other franchises they are still that back line less A.Smith and Dagg.You are absolutely correct in what you say and Blackadder/Hansen will no doubt co -operate.M cCaw this season had to cover Read to some extent Matt Todd is a more than adequate back up and deserves a shot in Black.
As i`ve written just want to see AllBlacks win could`nt care less about RWCs proves nothing the AB`s have been top team since 1996 bwith brief breaks whoever holds the RWC.

Lots of plusses and minuses for the Soweto match.

Plusses on the NZ side:
-Since 96 we're 12-9 up in SA though thanks largely to the 96 tour. Since then its been even.
-We've won the last at the ground thanks to the Nonu Dagg try
-We're on a run of 14 and need 3 tough ones to equal the record of 17- Hansen will have this firmly in his sights regardless of what he says publicly.
-We've won last 5 from 6 against SA, the loss being when several went AWOL in Port Elizabeth last year.
-SA have not managed to be 100% against any of its four opponents so far this year- Oz and NZ yet to meet them at home.
- SA have a dilemma at 10 that needs to be sorted in one match against Oz- go with the status quo and risk getting more of the same- go with Goosen and risk the rabbit in the headlights scenario
- Other than Carter we're generally injury free in terms of the current playing squad.

In SA's favour..

-Theyre at home and are generally hard to beat there.
-They have a home match vs Oz to prepare
-NZ play a potentially hostile and physical side in Argentina and need recoup quickly and travel further against the clock in short time to SA- probably the most telling factor for this match.
-They have huge potential in playing a potentially world class 10
-They have the satisfaction of knowing they could have beaten the AB's away had a couple of things gone in their favour

All that without even going to the player level which in my opnion is a slight advantage to the AB's in the forwards for the experience over the physicality that the Boks will bring and a bigger advantage in the backs which have generally been substandard other than cameo's from Habana.

I wonder if there will be a local man drafted in on short notice to operate as the fouth match official after the official match official mysteriously falls ill the night before, again?