RaboP12 (Round 5): Connacht (34) vs Leinster (6) k/o - 20:00 Fri, 28 September 2012 (Sportsgrounds, Galway)

by thebandwagonsociety Mon 24 Sep 2012, 3:14 pm

First topic message reminder :

Connacht usually up their game when the men from the east arrive. This might be a game for the avid supporters. I'm expected a hard hitting gritty game with few tries run in by either side. And a typical Galway breeze to keep the kickers honest.

Jenifer McLadyboy wrote:LEINSTER:

15: Rob Kearney
14: Fergus McFadden
13: Brendan Macken
12: Gordon D'Arcy
11: Isa Nacewa
10: Ian Madigan
9: John Cooney

1: Heinke van der Merwe
2: Thomas Sexton
3: Jamie Hagan
4: Quinn Roux
5: Tom Denton
6: Ben Marshall
7: Shane Jennings CAPTAIN
8: Leo Auva'a

REPLACEMENTS:

16: Sean Cronin
17: Cian Healy
18: Mike Ross
19: Devin Toner
20: Jordi Murphy
21: Luke McGrath
22: Noel Reid
23: Fionn Carr

Jenifer McLadyboy wrote:Connacht XV

15. Robbie Henshaw
14. Tiernan O’Halloran
13. Eoin Griffin
12. Dave McSharry
11. Fetu’u Vainikolo
10. Dan Parks
9. Kieran Marmion

1. Denis Buckley
2. Adrian Flavin
3. Nathan White (captain)
4. Michael Swift
5. Mike McCarthy
6. Eoin McKeon
7. Johnny O’Connor
8. George Naoupu

Replacements (from):

16. Jason Harris-Wright
17. Brett Wilkinson
18. Ronan Loughney
19. Dave Gannon
20. Willie Faloon
21. Dave Moore
22. Miah Nikora
23. Mata Fifit

Leinster Squad Update
With a large number of players away at international squad training until Wednesday, a reduced panel took to the field.
Gordon D’Arcy experienced discomfort after sustaining a blow to the ribs during the first half of Saturday evening’s win over Edinburgh but the Ireland centre should be fit to play on Friday night in Galway.

Eoin Reddan (minor quad strain) was a late withdrawal from Saturday’s line up and he too will be monitored by the medical team this week.

Shane Jennings (illness) and Jonathan Sexton (forearm) were both replaced as precautions, but the St. Mary’s College duo are expected to be available ahead of Thursday’s team announcement.

Jamie Heaslip’s next game will mark the Naas number eight’s 150th Leinster appearance.

by Sin é Mon 01 Oct 2012, 11:59 am

SecretFly wrote:
Sin é wrote:Crickey Fly, you are losing the run of yourself. An academy isn't a stud either

Aidan O'Brien from Ballydoyle Racing Stables (the most successful in the world) would not be taking in any old crap from Coolmore, no matter who the foal's daddy was. The foals would be teenagers/young adults and would have shown serious ability before making it into the Ballydoyle Academy. I'd suggest that any horse that makes into into Ballydoyle will be a success unless they get injured.

I'd suggest I know what I'm talking about, Sin é and there is NO guarantee on pedigree performing.... and trainers are only too aware of it. You can't guarantee the deal until they pay you back for the effort you put into to their nurturing.

I agree, there is no guarantee on pedigree performing (if that was the case, Calum Best would be a great soccer player). My point is that most of the pedigree wouldn't make it out of the Coolmore nursery and into the Ballydoyle Racing Academy (we are talking about the most successful racing stables in the world). They might end up in other racing stables though.

by Sin é Mon 01 Oct 2012, 12:08 pm

Jenifer McLadyboy wrote:
Sin é wrote:
Jenifer McLadyboy wrote:not sure they had academies in Redan boss and rosses day.cronin and Strauss I'll give you. Big Leo was just a guy from Wellington who turned up over here and played for Belvo. got spotted by Leinster and signed as squad cover. same as his fellow kiwis undone who played for clontarf.

The point I'm making is that Leinster have a fair few players who haven't come through the Leinster system. The Academy has been there since about 2003/04 now and you'd expect 'the best academy in Europe' to be able to have more graduates in the team at this stage, particularly in key positions like hooker, TH, locks & scrumhalf.

Well you are the only one I have seen saying it is "the best in Europe" I believe you that others have said it, but have not seen it myself.

Just because a few lads on a forum say it does not mean anyone in the Leinster organisation thinks it.

We have had problems in those areas for sure but we have adressed most of them, and we produce back rowers and outside backs for fun.

5 props in the academy now (a lot more than other provinces) and the 2 THs are very promising. Cooney and McGrath are promising at SH, we sent Harris Wright off to England and he is now at Connacht, the other hooker is Tom Sexton who has had not had much game time. 2 guys in the Academy too one of whom has a LH prop for a twin brother, and while 2nd row is still a problem we just got 2 lads in first year who are said to be serious prospects.

Jen, they have. The press bang on about the Academy.
I'd question the quality of your backs and backrowers (only ones I'd rate are Conway, Jordi Coughlan & Gilesenan). Ruddock & Ryan are way over rated.

They rest are still only prospects and a good few years away from being Leinster starters.

by SecretFly Mon 01 Oct 2012, 12:08 pm

Sin é, these academy players only prove or disprove themselves when they're hit with Pro12 (the toughest version) and or HEC..and then on to International. Every step up is another proving ground. And International is - well it's the Classics (to continue the racing analogy)

You can't cut them (the kids) out of the herd based on their performance graphs in the scooling yard. You cut one out that doesn't look promising, and send him to a new yard, well, you're just footshooting in many regards (unless he's a complete dud) because some players need the step up to ...step-up. Coaches know this - some players will shine in the spot light. But that spotlight is the end of the academy journey, not the beginning or middle of it.

But I keep to my point - some here seem to be suggesting a 'strong' academy is the foolproof future handed out to a lucky team. I say it is simply an educated guess school. All of them are.

by red_stag Mon 01 Oct 2012, 12:13 pm

To me it is pretty obviously. When a team is strong the amount of academy lads who step up is limited.

Example: Leinster have had Sean O'Brien, Rob Kearney, Fergus McFadden, Devin Toner, Luke Fitzgerald, Jonathan Sexton, Cian Healy, Jamie Heaslip etc who all made the step up a few years ago when Leinster were not that good.

Now their young guys struggle to get into the team.

Similarly at Munster during our Horan, Flannery, Hayes, Wallace, Leamy, Quinlan, O'Gara years we saw very very little academy success.

Now that we have stopped winning we have seen Peter O'Mahony, Conor Murray, Keith Earls, Mike Sherry, Simon Zebo, Danny Barnes, Tommy O'Donnell etc starting to get themselves proper game time.

Necessity is the mother of invention.

by SecretFly Mon 01 Oct 2012, 12:27 pm

Leinster's young guys find it hard to get into THE team - yes, I suppose. Not an extremely strong yes, though.
Leinster have been upfront and possibly most active in that old AP/Pro12 argument creator - Rotation!!! Indeed, they were the side most hailed for doing it and making it effective last season.

Yes, Munster might have been forced to now use their 'future' more regularly as they continue the rebuild but they're just at a different stage of a cycle.

I think enough young Leinster guys get a chance to influence certainly the Pro12 each season.

by Sin é Mon 01 Oct 2012, 12:41 pm

I'd look at the Leinster 'A' team performance rather than make excuses for them not taking their chance when they do get a chance at senior level. Considering that Leinster dominate at underage level, you'd expect them to be dominating at the 'A' level as well. Munster is considered to have the worst academy of all 4, but the Munster 'A' team have generally performed well and has helped the likes of POM, Sherry, Murray, Barnes & Zebo to adopt easily enough when they moved onto the first team.

by **rodders** Mon 01 Oct 2012, 12:44 pm

How times have changed. Munster v Leinster used to be the big one, now it's like two bald men arguing over a comb.

by SecretFly Mon 01 Oct 2012, 1:25 pm

Two bald men fight over the comb next weekend.

If one of them finds it............... well.................. those two crown hairs will be slicked back just so, with the help of some spit. Those two crown hairs............... they're the difference. If they're in place, Samson regains all his prowess.

Giggle up, Rodders...fill your reserve tanks too, you might need them come seasons end Wink

by **rodders** Mon 01 Oct 2012, 1:31 pm

by red_stag Mon 01 Oct 2012, 1:34 pm

Its pretty well known that Ulster are always just 1 defeat away from being IN CRISIS!!

by Sin é Mon 01 Oct 2012, 2:03 pm

Talking about Academies etc., looks like Darren Sweetnam (Cork Senior Hurler) has opted for Munster rugby. He seems to be very versatile as I've seen reports of him playing 10, wing and fullback. That will be a big blow to Cork GAA.

by SecretFly Mon 01 Oct 2012, 2:46 pm

Sin é wrote:Talking about Academies etc., looks like Darren Sweetnam (Cork Senior Hurler) has opted for Munster rugby. He seems to be very versatile as I've seen reports of him playing 10, wing and fullback. That will be a big blow to Cork GAA.

This'll seem very impolite of me but............... I don't care. I'm certainly not the most avid GAA watcher in this country by a long shot but in recent years I'm looking at them develop and become more and more virtual professional sportsmen in all but name and...wages. And I sometimes think what a waste, or maybe more accurately, I think 'hmmmm, he could handle rugby'.
No, I'm not against them playing GAA and loving it - I'm just saying they now put so much of themselves into preparation - long hours of training, weights, conditioning etc.... and some of them look like they could quite easily go a level up in physicality and weight gain and give rugby a go (I know Sweetnam already has). Am I being too greedy, though? Maybe - but I never said I wasn't selfish.

by Sin é Mon 01 Oct 2012, 2:59 pm

Personally, gaelic footballers moving to rugby doesn't bother me, but hurling is such a skilled game and so few play it. Its sad to see such talented & skilled players giving it up. For instance, I'm glad Joe Canning stayed with hurling rather than changing to rugby as apparently he was thinking of doing.

by Feckless Rogue Mon 01 Oct 2012, 3:09 pm

Fly if there's any player who's good enough at both sports to play at the highest level, surely they'll nearly always pick rugby. It's a well paid career. GAA stars have to train pretty much to pro standards, but don't get paid and have to get a real job. I know which one I'd pick.

I think Niall Ronan and Shaggy could have had a crack at playing football for Meath, but pro rugby is just a much more attractive option.

by SecretFly Mon 01 Oct 2012, 3:10 pm

I think the fact that it's skilled and few play it is the nutshell, Sin é. The GAA as an organisation should be much more involved in promoting it nationwide - both in actual promotion and in the practicalities of putting some of their money that way. I went to a school where if you didn't play Gaelic you didn't do physical eduation - period. Nothing else was offered. It should be much more centrally structured for GAA clubs and counties to have a programme to get Hurling played more as an addition to Gaelic not (as is usual in siege mentality GAA circles) - as something that challenges Gaelic's supremacy.

by SecretFly Mon 01 Oct 2012, 3:16 pm

Feckless Rogue wrote:Fly if there's any player who's good enough at both sports to play at the highest level, surely they'll nearly always pick rugby. It's a well paid career. GAA stars have to train pretty much to pro standards, but don't get paid and have to get a real job. I know which one I'd pick.

I think Niall Ronan and Shaggy could have had a crack at playing football for Meath, but pro rugby is just a much more attractive option.

Yeah, well that's how people who think more about rugby than GAA (someone like me! - and maybe you, though I'm not presuming I know what or how much you're involved in GAA) think about it, Feckless. But I still think the majority of players who play GAA do so because it speaks to them more than rugby does, it's in their blood, their traditions, their culture, their family, their community - whatever connections are there are strong and I'm saying that's fair enough - but when I look at some of the guys and the skills they possess and their body contour, I just think even a small percentage of them switching over would be quite beneficial to our sport.

Anyway, just thoughts. Don't send the hounds after me, GAA Wink

by Sin é Mon 01 Oct 2012, 3:36 pm

SecretFly wrote:I think the fact that it's skilled and few play it is the nutshell, Sin é. The GAA as an organisation should be much more involved in promoting it nationwide - both in actual promotion and in the practicalities of putting some of their money that way. I went to a school where if you didn't play Gaelic you didn't do physical eduation - period. Nothing else was offered. It should be much more centrally structured for GAA clubs and counties to have a programme to get Hurling played more as an addition to Gaelic not (as is usual in siege mentality GAA circles) - as something that challenges Gaelic's supremacy.

The reason possibly that GAA was the only thing provided was because the GAA funded the coaching (and all schools will take anything they can get for free). About 10 years ago, the GAA (Dublin County Board) offered free coaching to Dublin Secondary Schools. Its very noticeable about where I live now - a few years ago you would never see a hurley - now there is a hurling shop in the area and loads of kids walking around carrying hurleys. You even see people pucking a ball around Herbert Park now. The GAA has done a great job promoting hurling in Dublin.

by Feckless Rogue Mon 01 Oct 2012, 3:36 pm

You're right Fly, but a lot of those guys have never held an oval ball. I'm talking about the minority who do play both to a high level. There'll be much more of these in the future. Because rugby is more popular now and the old "garrison game" stigma is completely gone in most the country. More people will be playing both. And the best ones will have to choose one eventually. And rugby offers them a better living.

By the way I'm a hurling lover above all else. It's the best game in the world. Then rugby; then Gaelic football, then soccer. But I'll watch anything with two sides competing. Was cheering on Europe in the Ryder Cup till the early ours of the morning. And I've never even played a round of golf.

by Sin é Mon 01 Oct 2012, 3:40 pm

SecretFly wrote:
Feckless Rogue wrote:Fly if there's any player who's good enough at both sports to play at the highest level, surely they'll nearly always pick rugby. It's a well paid career. GAA stars have to train pretty much to pro standards, but don't get paid and have to get a real job. I know which one I'd pick.

I think Niall Ronan and Shaggy could have had a crack at playing football for Meath, but pro rugby is just a much more attractive option.

Yeah, well that's how people who think more about rugby than GAA (someone like me! - and maybe you, though I'm not presuming I know what or how much you're involved in GAA) think about it, Feckless. But I still think the majority of players who play GAA do so because it speaks to them more than rugby does, it's in their blood, their traditions, their culture, their family, their community - whatever connections are there are strong and I'm saying that's fair enough - but when I look at some of the guys and the skills they possess and their body contour, I just think even a small percentage of them switching over would be quite beneficial to our sport.

Anyway, just thoughts. Don't send the hounds after me, GAA

I don't have a problem with a few moving over (I'd welcome it) - its the special talents though - and I think Darren was a special talent - not many 18 olds studying for their Leaving Cert make a County team such as a top tier county like Cork. Joe Canning is the only other I can think of to make it at such a young age.

by SecretFly Mon 01 Oct 2012, 3:47 pm

Don't talk to me an Sin é about Golf, Feckless! We've met (online that is) some of the Golfing 606 guys and........it's a treat Whistle

.

Personally, I'll dip into other sports... extremely casually; but the only sport that gets my blood boiling has always been rugby. It's just war on a playing field, for me nothing else matches that physical intensity.

by Sin é Mon 01 Oct 2012, 3:50 pm

Joe Canning Q&A:

Q: Have you ever shown any talent in a sport other than hurling and would you like to have pursued it? 
A: In rugby, yeah. I used to play for Ballinasloe. I often think about it, should I have stayed? There was a time there a few years back that I was nearly inclined to go at it. I mightn’t have been too good at it, but you would often wonder if you could have got better. I played mostly in the backs – out-half, centre and full back but never on the wing. I wasn’t fast enough for that.

Q: Do you follow the fortunes of any team in another code?
A: I would support Liverpool in the soccer. I go to a lot of games in rugby too – whether it’s Connacht or Munster because I am down in Limerick (in college).

Q: What’s the best game you’ve ever been to as a spectator?
A: The Munster-All Blacks game in Thomond Park a few years ago. Everything about it, even before the game and after it, was unreal. I got to meet Jonah Lomu and stuff like that. That whole week. We got to meet the New Zealand team with Adidas so that whole experience was the best ever.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tsht1n005fI

Sean Og reckons Nonu would have made a hurler!

By the way, Joe Canning has some decent sponsorships.

by Kingshu Mon 01 Oct 2012, 3:55 pm

Sin é wrote:
SecretFly wrote:
Feckless Rogue wrote:Fly if there's any player who's good enough at both sports to play at the highest level, surely they'll nearly always pick rugby. It's a well paid career. GAA stars have to train pretty much to pro standards, but don't get paid and have to get a real job. I know which one I'd pick.

I think Niall Ronan and Shaggy could have had a crack at playing football for Meath, but pro rugby is just a much more attractive option.

Yeah, well that's how people who think more about rugby than GAA (someone like me! - and maybe you, though I'm not presuming I know what or how much you're involved in GAA) think about it, Feckless. But I still think the majority of players who play GAA do so because it speaks to them more than rugby does, it's in their blood, their traditions, their culture, their family, their community - whatever connections are there are strong and I'm saying that's fair enough - but when I look at some of the guys and the skills they possess and their body contour, I just think even a small percentage of them switching over would be quite beneficial to our sport.

Anyway, just thoughts. Don't send the hounds after me, GAA

I don't have a problem with a few moving over (I'd welcome it) - its the special talents though - and I think Darren was a special talent - not many 18 olds studying for their Leaving Cert make a County team such as a top tier county like Cork. Joe Canning is the only other I can think of to make it at such a young age.

My opinion is while you may argue that Rugby pays and thats why they should switch, GAA is more that that. If your from a GAA background, what would make your family, friends, community prouder of you, for most it will be playing GAA at the highest level. Think how proud the Whole of Donegal is at the minute for winning the All Ireland, and how proud the players familes are, I'd say each Donegal player will have more pints brought for him over his lifetime than BOD or POC will for winining 2 H-cups. Since its a smaller area they are representing, the local pride is far more intense, plus it is a wider followed sport locally. Now if a player has a chance to do that for his family, or play rugby and earn a very good living, the draw of the local game still sways it.

by thebandwagonsociety Mon 01 Oct 2012, 4:03 pm

Sin é wrote:
LeinsterFan4life wrote:Mcsharry for connacht looks a really good young player. Which probably means we won't see him on ireland team for another 5 years.

Who would you drop to accommodate him?

(btw, O'Halloran was in the last 6Ns training squad).

I don't know whether someone would be dropped for him. But if Darcy's ribs don't recover, he could get a chance as an injury replacement.

My thoughts on the game were;
TO'Halloran is class and Connacht look dangerous anytime he gets the ball.
Griffin & McSharry owned midfield.
Isa couldn't catch a cold.
Connacht's pack was exactly what I thought it would be... immense.
TOH's yellow card was harsh, but was it his hit to the back of Kearney after Rob had caught the ball and called a mark was surprisingly underhanded by him (I'd put it down to a brainfart, or youthful exuberance).
Healy/Cronin/Ross was fabulous at scrummaging once they came in.
When Leinster kept the ball tight and drive hard straight lines they made ground but then after multiple phases of play they became too lateral.
Will Connacht put down a performance like that again this season? I hope so, but..... consistency has to be their key.

by thebandwagonsociety Tue 02 Oct 2012, 5:30 pm

Okay, so just want to check.... were there any citings from the game last friday?

by **rodders** Tue 02 Oct 2012, 6:19 pm

The provinces don't cite each other I don't think?

by SecretFly Tue 02 Oct 2012, 6:33 pm

Don't officials do that for them...if need be.

by thebandwagonsociety Wed 03 Oct 2012, 12:03 pm

There is meant to be an independent official in the stands for games, from memory. But they only ever report if there is a bench clearing fight.
Usually citings are down to one team reporting on the other (and as said above, Irish don't cite Irish). It just means that there is one lucky Leinster boy this week.

by SecretFly Wed 03 Oct 2012, 12:15 pm

No wonder the 'derbies' turn into such bloodbath free-for-alls. "Marquess of Queenbury rules, lads - meaning they don't apply for this game. God's speed and good hunting!"

by **rodders** Wed 03 Oct 2012, 12:18 pm

Whos the lucky boy then? Missed most of this one.

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RaboP12 (Round 5): Connacht (34) vs Leinster (6) k/o - 20:00 Fri, 28 September 2012 (Sportsgrounds, Galway)

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