RaboP12 (Round 6): Leinster (30) vs Munster (21) k/o - 18:30 Sat, 6 October 2012 (Lansdowne Road)

Leinster Squad Update: 1 Oct 14:30
Rob Kearney (back) and Gordon D’Arcy (rib) are major doubts for the province and they will continue to be assessed ahead of Friday’s lunchtime team announcement. South African second row Quinn Roux suffered a shoulder injury and he is expected to miss this weekend’s derby match.
Meanwhile, Shane Jennings is expected to shake off the ill effects of an ankle injury which he sustained on the hour mark in Connacht, though it is likely to curtail his on-field involvement in training this week. It is hoped that club captain Leo Cullen (arm) will also return to the panel either this week or next, while Isaac Boss (arm) is getting closer to a return to action.

The province are expected to be boosted by the return of the likes of Jamie Heaslip, Kevin McLaughlin, Brian O’Driscoll, Eoin Reddan, Jonathan Sexton and Richardt Strauss to the panel this week.

There are two significant imminent landmarks for the province with Cian Healy, who turns 25 on Sunday, in line to make his 100th provincial appearance, while Naas number eight Heaslip’s next appearance will be his 150th.

Munster Squad Update: 1 October
Good news from the Munster camp is that the injuries picked up in the game on Saturday at the Liberty Stadium are not causing great concern.


Conor Murray required stitches to a cut above his eye but shortly after he returned it was thought to be in his best interests to replace him with Peter Stringer.
Stringer finished the game but suffered a calf injury and his progress will be monitored though the expectation is that both will be fit for consideration. The same applies to Marcus Horan who sustained a facial cut playing for Shannon.

Paul O'Connell (back), Johne Murphy (knee) and Luke O'Dea (ankle) are all expected to take a full part in training this week while Ian Nagle (shoulder) did likewise last week but will be given a week or so before being made available for selection and Cathal Sheridan (hand) and Ivan Dineen (groin) are also looking at a return in the same timeframe.

Mickado wrote:LEINSTER:

15: Ian Madigan
14: Andrew Conway
13: Brian O'Driscoll
12: Fergus McFadden
11: Isa Nacewa
10: Jonathan Sexton
9: Eoin Reddan

1: Heinke van der Merwe
2: Richardt Strauss
3: Mike Ross
4: Damian Browne
5: Devin Toner
6: Kevin McLaughlin
7: Shane Jennings
8: Jamie Heaslip CAPTAIN

REPLACEMENTS:

16: Sean Cronin
17: Jack McGrath
18: Jamie Hagan
19: Tom Denton
20: Jordi Murphy
21: John Cooney
22: Noel Reid
23: Fionn Carr

red_stag wrote:01: Dave Kilcoyne
02: Mike Sherry
03: BJ Botha
04: Donncha O'Callaghan
05: Donnacha Ryan
06: Dave O'Callaghan
07: Sean Dougall
08: Peter O'Mahony
09: Conor Murray
10: Ronan O'Gara
11: Simon Zebo
12: Casey Laulala
13: Keith Earls
14: Doug Howlett
15: Denis Hurley

16: Damien Varley
17: Wian du Preez
18: Stephen Archer
19: Billy Holland
20: Paddy Butler
21: Duncan Williams
22: Ian Keatley
23: James Downey

Post match report (Indo)
Having saddled themselves with the unwanted tag of league leaders in tries conceded, Leinster for a while looked like they might make serious headway in the other direction at Lansdowne Road last night. In the end they managed one more than they conceded, 3-2, and were happy enough to win, never mind miss out on the bonus.

The bad news is that their list of injured has grown even longer. Four players had to leave early from what was an entertaining contest for the huge crowd of 46,280 who fetched up on a perfect night for rugby. Kevin McLaughlin, Isa Nacewa, Brian O'Driscoll and Andrew Conway all took knocks. Conway's exit was via a stretcher, with a stinger, while McLaughlin will need a scan on a hyper-extended elbow, Nacewa is in trouble with a haematoma, and O'Driscoll sprained his ankle.

It remains to be seen who is fit for the opening defence of their Heineken Cup title, against Exeter in the RDS on Saturday, but as far as last night was concerned they were stuck with a back three of replacement scrumhalf John Cooney, outhalf Ian Madigan (in fairness he was selected at fullback) and Fionn Carr, who surely would have started if he hadn't missed a bad tackle in the five-try defeat in Galway last weekend.

Smelling the weakness in their opponents, Munster -- who came through the game in much better shape physically -- chased the home team down like men possessed. On 53 minutes they looked like they would be beaten out the gate when an outstanding try from O'Driscoll, converted from the touchline by the excellent Jonny Sexton, put Leinster 30-14 ahead.

Going down the final straight, however, it was a mad scramble. Conor Murray spread a bit of panic in the home crowd when, from a couple of metres out, he took advantage of empty corridor to dot the ball down. Replacement Ian Keatley nailed the conversion with a great kick, and Munster were on the charge. A couple of minutes later they looked on the verge of making it a one-point game.

Keith Earls was held up inches short, and when the ball squirted up referee Leighton Hodges said it was forward and Leinster escaped. Earls made another great burst heading into overtime, but by then the chances of two scores were non-existent.

When the game wasn't stopped for injuries it moved along at a cracking pace, helped by the service of man of the match Eoin Reddan -- his contribution to O'Driscoll's try was first class -- and, in the subtext of showing form for Ireland, Richardt Strauss made a compelling case. He looked like the player who took Leinster by storm when he arrived here three years ago. He did well to finger-tip-score the opening try, after just four minutes, but way better again in keeping the ball alive for the second, for Madigan.

"Yeah I thought he was really good," Joe Schmidt said. "There was one pinball effort where he took a ball behind him and was hit by two guys -- [Casey] Laulala was one of them, who tends not to leave a lot behind when he hits -- and ricocheted away in the lead-up to scoring [Madigan's try]. I thought he was very good."

It remains to be seen if Declan Kidney thinks the same. The Ireland coach will have been pleased with the form of Earls, and Simon Zebo, but it was hard for Munster to get a secure platform given the damage Mike Ross was doing to their scrum. Dave Kilcoyne, his opposite number, is a willing and aggressive ball carrier, but as you would expect he spent more time learning than lecturing in the tight. The ref did him for two penalties in a row -- one hit and one miss for Sexton -- and you felt for him.

Early on Munster looked like they had plenty to offer, with Peter O'Mahony responding within a couple of minutes of Strauss's try. By half-time Leinster had slipped out to 20-14. Ronan O'Gara kept Munster in touch with three penalties but then hit the post with a handy one early in the new half.

Straight from there, Leinster got motoring and hit their opponents with 10 points in four minutes -- first Sexton goaled from the touchline, and then O'Driscoll finished brilliantly after Fergus McFadden laid the groundwork through the middle, riding O'Gara's tackle, before great hands from Reddan kept it all going.

Rob Penney will be delighted with the way his team stuck to the task, but they badly need to get all their big players fit if their game is going to work. Schmidt, while wondering why so much trauma has landed at his door, will be glad that his team can generate this sort of momentum with so many players missing.

Scorers -- Leinster: R Strauss, I Madigan, B O'Driscoll try each; J Sexton 3 pens, 3 cons; Munster: P O'Mahony, C Murray try each; R O'Gara 3 pens; I Keatley con.

Leinster: I Madigan; A Conway (J Cooney 65), B O'Driscoll (N Reid 64), F McFadden, I Nacewa (F Carr 55); J Sexton, E Reddan; H van der Merwe, R Strauss (S Cronin 57), M Ross (J Hagan 65), D Browne (T Denton 73), D Toner, K McLaughlin (J Murphy 12), J Heaslip (capt), S Jennings.

Munster: D Hurley; D Howlett (capt), K Earls, C Laulala, S Zebo (J Downey 65); R O'Gara (I Keatley 60),C Murray; D Kilcoyne (W du Preez 57), M Sherry (D Varley 51 yc 54-64), BJ Botha, Donncha O'Callaghan (B Holland 49), D Ryan, Dave O'Callaghan (P Butler 70), P O'Mahony, S Dougall.

Referee: L Hodges (Wales)

Don Alfonso wrote:Really? You want to see ROG start?

Feckless Rogue wrote:The Feva' in the Aviva III.

I'd like everyone to refer to these Leinster v Munster clashes in the Aviva using Roman numerals like I have above. It makes it easier for Leinster fans to keep count of the number of times in a row we've kicked the culshie's out of our national stadium with their tails between their legs.

red_stag wrote:

Don Alfonso wrote:Really? You want to see ROG start?

Not especially I'd rather have Keatley at 10 and Earls at 15. However the ROG at 10 and Keatley at 15 has sort of worked up to now. Having an extra playmaker really helps ROG (Warwick playing 15 for Munster, Sexton playing 12 for Ireland).

Don Alfonso wrote:

red_stag wrote:

Don Alfonso wrote:Really? You want to see ROG start?

Not especially I'd rather have Keatley at 10 and Earls at 15. However the ROG at 10 and Keatley at 15 has sort of worked up to now. Having an extra playmaker really helps ROG (Warwick playing 15 for Munster, Sexton playing 12 for Ireland).

Fair enough. Personally, I'd agree with Keatley 10 and Earls 15. I think Keatley has simply been much better than ROG (or perhaps more "suitable"), and having Earls at 15 allows Laulala (at 13, mind), Zebo, Howlett and Earls on the pitch. Do you expect ROG to start the Racing HEC game?

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:I'm not sure he will stag, as we are so light in the back 3. If Kearney is injured we are buggered.

Mackin seems to be preferred to Hudson I think. Madigan may be putti 12 with ferg at 11......

thebandwagonsociety wrote:If darcy starts, then Munster run the ball through Laulala and Downey down that channel all day, guaranteed 5-10 yard gains on a consistent basis.
If Macken starts in his place, exact same outcome.
If McF starts then that might be more secure, but put pace around the outside of BOD and hope the winger drifts in to help.

or

Anything down the left hand side of the field as our backline defence isn't doing well drifting from left to right.

I think Leinster will need to have >50% possession in the game in order to win it. The defence isn't strong enough to hold out for sustained periods of time.

Leinsters front 5 is okay, but really it is a case of a strong front 3 trying to cover for a weak second row. I've held my view on this long enough, Denton doesn't cut the mustard. Neither does Roux. Both are anomynous in games and neither is the enforcer role that we need. Also, they aren't that feckin tall, Marshall and McL I reckon are the same height as both of them and there is a bit of creative measurement going on!

Need a big game from Heaslip, McLaughlin will give his all. The backrow battle will be epic.

red_stag wrote:I think we have left it too late for that experiment I feel. I liked what I saw from the O'Gara at 10, Earls at 11, Keatley at 15 setup although I would prefer to see Zebo replace O'Gara with some reshuffling for Heineken Cup Rounds 3 and 4.

Injuries could be telling for Leinster. Is McFadden finally about to get a go in the centre for Leinster?

red_stag wrote:I thought it worked nicely against Dragons. It was by no means perfect but it was early days. I think it has a future - maybe Hanrahan at 10 and Keatley at 15 moving forward.

I wont complain if we see ROG dropped altogether though. Keatley MUST play - whether that is at 10 or 15 I dont mind. Like I say though as it stands I would rather him at 15.

I dont see how he can be dismissed. I think we add a second playmaker to our attack and if used right could be excellent.

I am still seething that we did not do the most obvious thing in the world against Ulster - use ROG as a decoy and let Keatley score what would have been the winning drop kick.

red_stag wrote:

valjester wrote:
Keatley is not a full back in any shape or form. I'd probably put TOH, or Gilroy, there ahead of him, they might not end up as full backs but they will do a better job than Keatley there.

Based on what? A few appearances he had there for Connacht as a nipper. I think he has looked well there against both Ulster and Dragons. I expect we are likely to see him feature there against Leinster and in the Heineken Cup.

profitius wrote:Munster are getting +7pts in the bookies. Good value going on the season just gone.

Both teams will be strengthened for this match. Both teams were poor at the weekend but overall Munster have been better this season.

I'm looking forward to see Dave O'Callaghan against the Leinster backrow. He was missed last weekend for Munster, the same for Dougal.

POM and Donnacha Ryan looked unfit and off the pace when they came on against the Ospreys. I wouldn't start them personally but I think Penney will start them.

Downey, Botha, Keatley and Murray will all make a big difference.

valjester wrote:Keatley is going to be the same as Warwick at 15, they can both be very good at times, and the option of having a second distributor is great. Yet, when it goes wrong is goes horribly wrong, last year against the Ospreys as an example, but even when it goes well there are still problems with it. Last week against the Dragons, Keatley's positioning and ability under the high ball let him down badly, yes he made some great breaks, but they were in the 10 channel. His ability under the high ball will be badly exposed by the better teams, his problem isn't so much catching, but the fact that he doesn't challenge for balls that he should be coming for. You can complain about Hurley, or Earls, but they at least make an attempt to challenge for the ball, and Earls has come on leaps in that regard.

The reason I am dismissing it as a nonsense, is that if you want a second playmaker in the team, fine, that is all well and good but don't do so if it weakens the team overall. Keatley at 10, with someone else at 15, is much more effective than having Rog and Keatley on the pitch together. In a season or two, Munster could have JJ at 12 and you would have a second distributor who doesn't weaken the overall team.

Sin é wrote:

valjester wrote:Keatley is going to be the same as Warwick at 15, they can both be very good at times, and the option of having a second distributor is great. Yet, when it goes wrong is goes horribly wrong, last year against the Ospreys as an example, but even when it goes well there are still problems with it. Last week against the Dragons, Keatley's positioning and ability under the high ball let him down badly, yes he made some great breaks, but they were in the 10 channel. His ability under the high ball will be badly exposed by the better teams, his problem isn't so much catching, but the fact that he doesn't challenge for balls that he should be coming for. You can complain about Hurley, or Earls, but they at least make an attempt to challenge for the ball, and Earls has come on leaps in that regard.

The reason I am dismissing it as a nonsense, is that if you want a second playmaker in the team, fine, that is all well and good but don't do so if it weakens the team overall. Keatley at 10, with someone else at 15, is much more effective than having Rog and Keatley on the pitch together. In a season or two, Munster could have JJ at 12 and you would have a second distributor who doesn't weaken the overall team.

ROG & Warwick were effective enough together. Interesting in that Warwick was poor enough in his first season with Munster and had little or no experience at 15 (played there about twice for Connacht). It was his second season with Munster before he started playing at fullback and he actually really turned into a good option there (defence wasn't great, but great attacker). Warwick didn't weaken the team and it was great having a second kicker on the pitch.

If JJ wants to play 10 (and he says its the position he favours), he will play 10 as he wouldn't be short of offers elsewhere. JJ's agent is English and based in London (a guy who used to work with Steve Black of Wilko fame).

Jenifer McLadyboy wrote:

thebandwagonsociety wrote:If darcy starts, then Munster run the ball through Laulala and Downey down that channel all day, guaranteed 5-10 yard gains on a consistent basis.
If Macken starts in his place, exact same outcome.
If McF starts then that might be more secure, but put pace around the outside of BOD and hope the winger drifts in to help.

or

Anything down the left hand side of the field as our backline defence isn't doing well drifting from left to right.

I think Leinster will need to have >50% possession in the game in order to win it. The defence isn't strong enough to hold out for sustained periods of time.

Leinsters front 5 is okay, but really it is a case of a strong front 3 trying to cover for a weak second row. I've held my view on this long enough, Denton doesn't cut the mustard. Neither does Roux. Both are anomynous in games and neither is the enforcer role that we need. Also, they aren't that feckin tall, Marshall and McL I reckon are the same height as both of them and there is a bit of creative measurement going on!

Need a big game from Heaslip, McLaughlin will give his all. The backrow battle will be epic.

Don't agree with a whole lot of this. Unless you are suggesting Darce will be less secure in defence because of his ribs, I disagree that he is a worse defender than Ferg.

Denton came from Leeds I think in the championship and would not be a HC level player. Roux is 20 and has played exactly 1 game for Leinster (he got hurt in the warmup on Friday and lasted about 10 minutes) He had hands like feet and did not play that well, but he looks like he could be an enforcer given time.

Heights. Denton is 6'6" Roux is 6'5" (Same height as Brad Thorn) Heaslip is 6'4 and Kev is slightly taller than Jamie.

Hard to call this game. I think Leo Cullen would be a great asset if he makes it. Bod, Sexton, Heaslip and He would make up for the leadership vacuum we had on Friday.

valjester wrote:

Sin é wrote:

valjester wrote:Keatley is going to be the same as Warwick at 15, they can both be very good at times, and the option of having a second distributor is great. Yet, when it goes wrong is goes horribly wrong, last year against the Ospreys as an example, but even when it goes well there are still problems with it. Last week against the Dragons, Keatley's positioning and ability under the high ball let him down badly, yes he made some great breaks, but they were in the 10 channel. His ability under the high ball will be badly exposed by the better teams, his problem isn't so much catching, but the fact that he doesn't challenge for balls that he should be coming for. You can complain about Hurley, or Earls, but they at least make an attempt to challenge for the ball, and Earls has come on leaps in that regard.

The reason I am dismissing it as a nonsense, is that if you want a second playmaker in the team, fine, that is all well and good but don't do so if it weakens the team overall. Keatley at 10, with someone else at 15, is much more effective than having Rog and Keatley on the pitch together. In a season or two, Munster could have JJ at 12 and you would have a second distributor who doesn't weaken the overall team.

ROG & Warwick were effective enough together. Interesting in that Warwick was poor enough in his first season with Munster and had little or no experience at 15 (played there about twice for Connacht). It was his second season with Munster before he started playing at fullback and he actually really turned into a good option there (defence wasn't great, but great attacker). Warwick didn't weaken the team and it was great having a second kicker on the pitch.

If JJ wants to play 10 (and he says its the position he favours), he will play 10 as he wouldn't be short of offers elsewhere. JJ's agent is English and based in London (a guy who used to work with Steve Black of Wilko fame).

The bolded doesn't add up. When Warwick went well at full back it went fantastic, still doesn't mean he was a full back, or that he wasn't a weakness. I would imagine most teams would much prefer to play Munster with Rog at 10 and Keatley at 15, rather than Keatley at 10 and Earls at full back.

Kingshu wrote:Cheers, Mickado, was hoping that more than 2 could be moved, but Leinster hadn't seen the need to move any more and it would have been an option.

To be honest, Ulster have a really good season, and the League game leinster move to the Aviva is the Leinster Ulster one, then I think that would mark ulster leap frogging Munster.

We can use as the test to who's the 2nd best team or best team in Ireland, by which one Leinster play at the Aviva (seams to be Munster currently).

lets hope next year it's Munster in RDS and Ulster in NLR.

Sin é wrote:The thumping last week against the Ospreys wasn't as bad as I thought it would be. Munster are still in their learning* (honeymoon stage) - i.e., a match away from home which Munster are not expected to win, so I think Penney will be still experimenting and integrating players back into the team, which will all lead nicely into Racing Metro not having a clue with what to expect and an away win which would set up Munster nicely in their group in the Heineken Cup.

*The way Munster continued to play at the end against the Ospreys reminded me of Munster losing to Leinster in Cork (07-08 season) in a gale by continuing to try and throw the ball around. The following week normal service returned.

whocares wrote:afternoon people - are you getting french refs for the coming pro12 round?
next week T14 games going to be reffed by Irish/Welsh/Italian/English/Scots refs (mainly Irish ones) so was wonderign if this was the yearly pre-HC exchange?

thebandwagonsociety wrote:
Darcy, if fit, is miles better defender. But an inside centre with dodgy ribs that have forced him off twice now in successive games cannot be expected to survive direct running from Munster. He should have been rested last weekend and this weekend to try and give time for a knock like that to recover.

Spoiler: