Pumas vs All Blacks team announced and more

First topic message reminder :

Argentina have named their side to face the All Blacks in this weekend’s Rugby Championship fixture on Saturday in La Plata, retaining the same starting side that put Australia under pressure a fortnight ago.
The only changes in the 22-man squad sees prop Marcos Ayerza and lock Tomas Vallejos included on the replacement bench, replacing Juan Pablo Orlandi and Leonardo Senatore respectively.
The Pumas let a 19-6 lead over Australia slip away two weeks ago, with the Wallabies piling on 17 unanswered points in the last twenty minutes to edge the game 23-19. This weekend’s home side will no doubt look to seal their first win of the competition in front of an always vocal Argentinian crowd.
Argentina: 15 Lucas Gonzalez Amorosino, 14 Gonzalo Camacho, 13 Marcelo Bosch, 12 Santiago Fernandez, 11 Horacio Agulla, 10 Juan Martin Hernandez, 9 Martin Landajo, 8 Juan Martin Fernandez Lobbe (Captain), 7 Juan Manuel Leguizamon, 6 Julio Farias Cabello, 5 Patricio Albacete, 4 Manuel Carizza, 3 Juan Figallo, 2 Eusebio Guinazu, 1 Rodrigo Roncero
Replacements: 16 Agustin Creevy, 17 Marcos Ayerza, 18 Tomas Vallejos, 19 Tomas Leonardi, 20 Nicolas Vergallo, 21 Martin Rodriguez, 22 Juan Imhoff.

Good on Argentina for coming out positive. Got good reward. Feel jealous I'm not part of this amazing crowd. So good we'll get to see these grounds a lot more and their great fans.

Up due to the Ryder cup and my luck is in. Nz v arg... didn't realise. Good try by the pumas...

Savea made that try keeping his feet and getting the ball wide to Jane. Another great restart. This has been one of our consistent strengths this year. McCaw is having a beaut of a game. He's been everywhere.

I was worried to see 4 changes and the captain goes off. Then again good chance for these young players and we'll need McCaw and Carter for next week. From the lineout Cruden makes a break and gets a good pass away and Nonu, who has been very useful tonight both on attack and defence, gets good reward. Good to see the big man have a good game.

Six tries, and one handling error. Says it all.

Have to say, I have not seen a referee police the off-side line so strongly basically, ever. Refreshing, it's made space and we saw a great game.

Contrast that with Rollaind today who has no control of the offside line and it was day and night in every sense.

Brilliant try from Jane. What a fend on the guy and he did very well to intercept that floating pass.

kiakahaaotearoa wrote:Brilliant try from Jane. What a fend on the guy and he did very well to intercept that floating pass.

Yep, it's that world class fend again....

The only other guy who can fend like Jane can is Dan Carter.

You have to feel for Argentina. They didn't play that badly tonight. Certainly better than Australia did against SA. Yet they copped a thrashing. But it might work in their favour as they'll be fired up to make amends against Australia next weekend.

SA and NZ both look to have found form so it'll be a great match hopefully.

Congratulations NZ.
We have given a masterclass in rugby.
This has been the best result in the history of AB in Argentina, really unexpected for us.

Yes the pre match talk probably went against the argies following the SA result there. The ABs were obviously well prepared for this. I mean who else talks about silencing a crowd as part of its strategy. They've just got all the bases covered.

Well done Hansen to his first trophy as head coach and team is still on track for the 19 wins they need to take the record of lithuania.

Well done argie who had their moments but perhaps a bridge too far this time.

A good performance. To put it in the perspective. It's the most points scored against Argentina at home, and one of their biggest losses at home (probably is for a full strength side in the professional era). I thought pace of the game really showed. That's probably still the difference between NH and SH in general.

Cracking footwork for the Argies first try, but some of the speed at the ruck area the AllBlacks come back with and the off loading was just like art.

The NH rugby is a good decade behind these guys, even the Argies made us lot look like we play in slow motion

" even the Argies made us lot look like we play in slow motion"

you what.....

Quick decisive scrum half is needed for Wales

i think your going abit far there pal.. NZ make everyone look pedestrian though

Argie fan wrote:Congratulations NZ.
We have given a masterclass in rugby.
This has been the best result in the history of AB in Argentina, really unexpected for us.

To be honest I think the result is a bit un-reflective.

No disrespect to Argentina, but they have not played in such a high intensity competition compressed in the short time, that goes on so long. This is harder than the world cup because every week there is a top 3 team to face, and also the effects of travelling.

It will take some years to get the conditioning of the players, and build the depth and experience across the squad to compete every single week the way Argentina did in the earlier weeks.

I predicted a bigger score line to NZ because I thought eventually this incredible passion and aggression will get tired and the more clinical nature of the top teams will prevail.

However, Argentina should not be dismayed by the scoreline, the rugby they played so far in the tournament has been first class and worthy and results such as this are not unusual even between the existing 3N members.

I suspect Argentina may turn over the wobblying wallabies next week for an historic first RC win. I will certainly be cheering them on.

one last note: The Argentinian anthem before the game was the most empassioned anthem singing I have ever seen. The atmosphere was immense and when the ABs brought out Kapo O Pango in response it was spine tingling. And the crowd response was just awesome! both vociferous and respectful. Top marks. What a spectacle. Argentina have brought a new welcome dimension to the SH rugby calendar.

anotherworldofpain wrote:

Argie fan wrote:Congratulations NZ.
We have given a masterclass in rugby.
This has been the best result in the history of AB in Argentina, really unexpected for us.

To be honest I think the result is a bit un-reflective.

No disrespect to Argentina, but they have not played in such a high intensity competition compressed in the short time, that goes on so long. This is harder than the world cup because every week there is a top 3 team to face, and also the effects of travelling.

It will take some years to get the conditioning of the players, and build the depth and experience across the squad to compete every single week the way Argentina did in the earlier weeks.

I predicted a bigger score line to NZ because I thought eventually this incredible passion and aggression will get tired and the more clinical nature of the top teams will prevail.

However, Argentina should not be dismayed by the scoreline, the rugby they played so far in the tournament has been first class and worthy and results such as this are not unusual even between the existing 3N members.

I suspect Argentina may turn over the wobblying wallabies next week for an historic first RC win. I will certainly be cheering them on.

one last note: The Argentinian anthem before the game was the most empassioned anthem singing I have ever seen. The atmosphere was immense and when the ABs brought out Kapo O Pango in response it was spine tingling. And the crowd response was just awesome! both vociferous and respectful. Top marks. What a spectacle. Argentina have brought a new welcome dimension to the SH rugby calendar.

Thanks for your opinion friend, I appreciate it so much.

I feel asleep on the 72nd minute I think, so I missed Jane's third try. I think Argentina were always in the game and agree that the score isn't a true reflection. A few NZ tries came from Arg errors, they should cut out the mistakes though with experience. The team can be proud, that's only one drubbing after they were predicted several.

Puma's should beat a crippled Wallabies next week, that's the only result I can see. Both teams will be looking to make amends on an end of year tour to the NH but may be better off using it as a 'development tour.' Very unlikely though.

As for the crowd, yeah they were passionate, but too similar to football fans. As the game grows in Argentina they need to distance themselves from these people.

I'd prefer the Argie fans stay as they are. They were passionate but ultimately nullified by the AB's turning it on. Why should they change and for what reason? Watching last night as an AB fan, I didn't see or hear them doing anything wrong.

They booed the kickers? So what in my opinion. It's disrespectful to boo in the NH and I understand that, but it doesn't mean that it is disrespectful everywhere else.

Yep whistling during the Haka could get the whole of the Argentina served with a fine and a pitch side ban when the Kiwis tell the IRB that someone stood up to there "war"" dance.

I liked the Argie fans, vocal but not aggressive, it's good to have a broad spectrum of fans on the international scene.

The fans come across as a bit one-eyed when they boo every single thing (as well as the kicks). Booing kickers happens everywhere so I'm not singling out Argentina. It happens around every single corner of France so perhaps it is a result of being over the top passionate?

Apart from the laser when Cruden made the last kick, I don't think the Argie fans had anything to answer to. They have home advantage and they can boo or make as much noise as they want. I for one wished I was at the ground. Looked like a cauldron atmosphere and only NZ brilliance stopped them from sustaining that volume for longer.

I echo AWOP's sentiments. Argentina were dismissed by most at the start of the tournament and I think they will be frustrated that they didn't close out two wins against SA and Australia home and away already. I expect them to be too strong for a desperately reduced Wallabies side.

They add so much to this tournament and any side with a defence like theirs and a solid set piece platform will do well in rugby. What they need to refine and hone is their use of the ball but no doubt they have the players. I wish them the best for next week. They deserve a win the way they have played throughout the tournament but they will have to play well because nothing is earned in this tournament without hard graft.

kiakahaaotearoa wrote: What they need to refine and hone is their use of the ball but no doubt they have the players. I wish them the best for next week. They deserve a win the way they have played throughout the tournament but they will have to play well because nothing is earned in this tournament without hard graft.

When was the last time you saw a team score a 60 meter try against NZ from a set piece on first phase? That try was amazing. But another thing is that they did a similar tries against AUS and SA too already. They certainly have what it takes and some of the set-play decoy and passing moves (that smacked heavily of Graham Henry's influence) looked slick and clever, with even forwards involved in slick handling! They certainly offer more of a credible threat than some of the more established teams in the top 8...

No doubt AWOP. But where were those moves late in the match when they were really needed? They have to build their fitness and be able to sustain pressure throughout the match. Then they can run in those beautiful tries at any moment of the game. That's where they're struggling at the moment.

I fully expect them to come out the stronger again against the Wallabies. What they need to do though is build a sizeable enough lead because they don't have the puff in the last quarter to close out games.

I'm not so sure how next week will go. I think the tank will be empty for a lot of them. I was predicting them to get hammered in the last two games.

A more sympathetic organiser would have given them the home games up-front. Especially politically for growing the game...

I suspect the remaining Wallabies might have a point to prove next week after the weekend's humiliation. And just like SA, the injuries might just be the catalyst to bring in a few more of the Aussie players who actually performed in the S15...rather than the favourites.

If I was Deans I'd throw in Quade Cooper and ask him to put his money where his mouth was.

I think the Wallaby vs Puma match is a tough one to call, as I suspected from the start the Pumas will eventually run out of gas. For no other reason than this being the toughest competition they have ever faced.

They will again bring much passion and enthusiasm to the game and even though the Australians have lost more players to injury they still have some quaiity individuals.

It will be a close one, Argentina will want to get an early lead and hope to last 80 minutes which they have not yet managed in the competition.

God, I hope Argentina get the win next weekend!

Would mean the world to them.

Australia will win,just! but the bloody little sods will pull it out of the bag as usual.

I think this argie result serves as a reminder of what this AB side is really capable of. While many of us got caught up in the merits of argie at home, their results against SA and us at home, the ABs just went into overdrive and again for the second time this season executed their gameplan to a very high level.

Not perfect, and they had to fight off the inevitable starting passion, but when they get into the higher gear it is nigh impossible to pull them back before its too late.

SA have a big decision to make. They need to ask themselves whether they are at a sufficient level after one game, to take their front foot approach to the ABs in the same way they did oz.

They risk a greater chance of being turned over because they aren't used to this style and its one the ABs are used to playing against during sxv and sides like oz.

Argie decided to attack more but it had the effect of dropping their very high level of defence only two weeks ago. And SA need to gauge very precisely how good they actually were against this particular oz side. They probably won't get the same width or time they seemed to get with players like habana getting yards galore when he is rarely afforded that much space.

Also not totally convinced by goosen at this level. He did some ok things, was miles better than steyn in terms of effectiveness but did look a little hesitant. I thought he could have made a stronger effort to the line where he seemed to immediately try to recycle the ball back where an extension might have got him there.

His last pass to kirchner although quick had the effect of kirchner having to work harder to get over the line than he possibly needed to.

So the ABs will pay extra attention to this newly adopted play and probably will be more optimistic in getting more ball through turnovers as attacking also makes the ball available more.

Full praise to SA for adopting this style. My thought is they needed to do this from day one against england to refne it. Doing it first against a depleted oz could give them a false confidence and they should probably tone it back, or it could backfire.

Am i correct in thinking the AllBlacks only knocked the ball on twice?
If so that's unbelievable skill from 1-15, considering the pace they played at.

To be honest I don't care whether they are "good enough" or not, they must go. At it with everything they can muster.

Sure the Aussie team had lots of injuries, but they still went into this test with 9 starters who played in the QF with another 2 on the bench vs SA with six starters and one on the bench.

The All Blacks also need to see their break out victory in context, Argentina started well but their errors compounded throughout the match.

For both SA and NZ there is a big challenge ahead, whether they are "used" to this style is arbitrary, no use to go back into their shells because they are playing the mighty All Blacks.

We have done enough of that in the past.

First we didn't play expansive enough to chase a game, should we now not try playing the same way sor
That we can once again not be good enough to chase a game?

As much as we have to execute, as much do NZ need to execute, both teams have shown this weekend they can punish errors.

Yep fully agree there Biltong, and its a refreshing conversation to have. I would have them go full on as well as long term it must bring them closer towards the full 15 man game they need to start dominating in tests.

I just thought a tempered approach, based more on defence, might get them into a position that allows them to maximise the use of the high veldt home advantage ...just for this match.

Then use the AI's to cement the front foot game which, regardless whether they win or lose this week, will give them a world beating side after the sxv next year with Meyer able to look for the more attacking players, conjure up reall attacking strategies based on the already formidable pack which will get better and better.

It was a similar change in focus at this point in 2009- started immediately after the SA 3rd SA loss- that set the AB's on the path to where they are now.

I think SA are in that position now and the rugby world is going to be a very different place at the top next year, something I've been waiting for for a good 3 years at least.

As you know I have been waiting for the change of a proper ten for some time now, I am sure Goosen will be astute enough to not run from anywhere, Meyer will ensure that he tempers his enthusiasm with some common sense, but at the end of the day when the opportunity presents itself to attack Goosen will do it.

We must not get carried away with the win against OZ, but we must acknowledge the fact that we now have the talent in Goosen, Jantjies and Lambie to herald a new era of positive Springbok rugby and we dare not go back to the fear of failure.

...Scary whats ahead to be honest. This week will be a typical AB Bok Smash em up of a match but next year...one team will certainly be improving more than the rest, and that wont be us...

I'm not sure it's fair to portray the AB success as a function of Argentinian incompetence. After all it's the same ARG team who drew with SA at home. Often mistakes are caused by pressure from the other team and NZ certainly applied a lot of pressure.

I think a lot of work went in to the ABs game plan between the ARG knock out game last year, this years home match, in making the new style of play that finally worked in argentina.

This style requires the interplay of the back row, locks and inside backs at various points across the field. It was getting this skills right which was so problemsome in the early part of the RC and made for so many handling errors.

We now see what happens when it works and it is important to pay attention to how different this structure is from the one used by NZ at last years RWC.

I believe this structure is devised to unlock this kind of defense specifically and I will be interested to see if this same approach is used against SA and how it is adapted to care for the differences in SA defending patterns now.

That is why I was so most interested to see the SA "concertina" or "umbrella" system against Australia and how AUS were not able to unlock it.

I half believe next week will tell us nothing because NZ will name the rotated combinator and Meyer had no input into last week's game plan at all. I think you saw a small player rebellion going on there.