Pro 12, after round 5, How the season is shaping up?

First topic message reminder :

Pro 12 table
http://www.rabodirectpro12.com/matchcentre/table.php

It's aways too early to look judge a team after only 2/3 rounds, however by round 5 we should be getting a picture of how teams are going, and have they moved on from previous years or appearing to be going backwards.

Ulster;
Top of table with a game in hand, unbeaten. Wins against 3 of the 4 play off teams from last year, plus an away bonus point win against Cardiff, no small feat, given the tragic last few weeks. We have carried on strong, some top players still to come back as well. The team have a very good defence, least points and tries conceded (but played a game less), and are dangerous in attack with that, the season looks like it could be a very good season for Ulster.

Scarlets;
Great start to season winning first 3 games, 2 of the last seasons play off teams, including a big win over Leinster, and a good win away in Connacht. Lost Derby to Ospreys, and followed up with a loss to Terviso, has taken wind out of sails a little, will look to get season back on track against Dragons. Look to have improved and to be genuine play off contenders this year, playing the attacking rugby they are famed for showing as they are top try scorers in the league.

Munster;
New coach in, looking to play closer to a super XV team style, wins against Edinburgh, Terviso and Dragons, loses to Ospreys and a close Ulster game, (both away). Look to be beating the teams they are expected to beat, losing the tough away games, performing well and as expected at present, big game away to Leinster next will tell more, and how they do at home against the top teams. Going as expected so far.

Glasgow Warriors;
Lost to Ulster, Scarlets, look back on track with wins over Ospreys, Connacht and Zebre. Looking in decent shape, but just feel they are not playing as well as last year, but have won the expected games, though Zebre was to close to be comfortable, could improve, but currently feel they are winning playing badly, but thats not a bad thing to build on, and could make the play offs again, but will be hard work and need to find that bit more.

Cardiff Blues;
Beat Connacht, Dragons and Terviso lost to Edinburgh and Ulster. Performing like a mid table team, beating teams expected to be below them losing to ones expected to be above them. Have lost a lot of players and are rebuilding, and having injury problems in some positions. Think that the squad may not be strong enough to mount a top 4 challange, and will be a tough season, that said they are still in 5th place but next games against Warriors, Leinster and Munster may be hard to get points from. Overall not going as bad as feared by some, plenty of positives, but squad depth may be their undoing.

Leinster;
Normally start slowly, but this has to be the slowest start ever, and maybe starting to worry fans, that leinster haven't found their mojo and Munster then H-cup are up next!
Close win v Terviso and good wins against Edinburgh and Dragons, but heavy losses to Scarlets and Connacht, see's them midtable. We know Leinster are prob the best team in League and Europe but currently have a few injuries. Things like having shipped the most tries, and most points in the league, are worries, but everyone is just waiting for Leinster to click, but they are running out of time to do it with big games coming up.

Edinburgh;
Lost to Munster, Leinster and Dragons beat Blues and Zebre. Had a poor league last year, and its hard to tell if this season will be different. Picked up losing BP against Munster and Leinster suggest they can mix it with the top teams, 2nd top try scored shows they are still playing their attacking game, but big loss against Dragons shows maybe last seasons issue of lack of depth or slipping up against teams they are expected to beat are still there? Looking like they will do better in the league, but still can't tell will it be a lot better or just a bit better. To be fair, playing Munster, Leinster and Blues within first 4 games is a tough start.

Connacht;
Lost to Blues, Scarlets and Glasgow, won against Zebre and Leinster. Bonus point win against Leinster was the standout, and will prob have Harliquins fans a little nervous. Would have hoped for a better start winning one of the home games against Blues or Scarlets, but beating Leinster was one they wouldn't have expected and are therefore sitting where they would have expected to be at this time. Away to Ulster and Ospreys will prob see them slide down table, but look an improved team from last year, which was their best every finish, and look like they could repeat it, but prob not better it.

Ospreys;
The one consolation Leinster fans had, was if they had a slow start the current champions got off to a slower one. Loses to Terviso, Ulster and Glasgow have been followed up by good wins against Scarlets and Munster. Look to have got the season back on track now after poor start, and hitting form at the right time. Even with poor start they have only have shipped 5 tries, second lowest in the league so defense isn't an issue unlike Leinster. Ospreys fans expected a slow start (just not as bad), after losing some key players from last year and taking a bit of time for players to gel, look to have done this now and are back to being a dangerous outfit, next games against Zebre and Connacht and expected to continue their climb up the table.

Dragons;
Lost to Leinster, Blues and Munster won against Zebre and Edinburgh. Plan this season was to turn Rodney Parade back into a very tough place to visit, 2/3 so far at home. No shame losing to Leinster and Munster away from home, so overall not a bad start for the Dragons. Losing Dan Lydiate for the season could make their job harder as they have one of the weaker squads in the league. Was always going to be a tough year for Dragons, but they look like they have accepted the challenge and are meeting it head on so far. If wanting H-cup next year its Cardiff blues they will be targetting, so in that regards will be disappointed by the home loss to them, 5 points now behind. May not make H-cup but look to be able to fulfill primary concern of making RP a tough place to go.

Benetton Treviso;
Look to have moved up a level this year, home win over Ospreys, followed by loses to Leinster, Munster and Blues then win over Scarlets. Have made Stadio di Monigo a very very hard place to visit. Beat Ospreys and Scarlets there and only lost to Leinster by a point by a last minute drop goal, gives an indication of how hard a place it now is. Road form may be an issue and their aim this year is to keep Stadio di Monigo a fortress and improve on the road. Looking to be going well as playing Leinster, Munster, Blues, Scarlets and Ospreys is a very difficult opening 5 games for any team and 9 points is a good return. Don't think anyone, will go to Stadio di Monigo looking for a BP win anymore as just to get a win will be a real challange, not sure yet how well they could do, but sitting second last is a bit misleading I feel, and if had a different first 5 games it would prob be around midtable.

Zebre;
We didn't expect much, and thats what we got, Losses to Dragons, Connacht, Edinburgh and Glasgow. However that said, they were much improved against Glasgow (away from home) and could be considered unluckly not to win, picked up a LBP. Also in fairness they have only had one home game so far. If we expected Ospreys to take a little time to gel, with some new players, we have to give Zebre more time as a new team. Think we are beginging to see signs that as the season goes on they will get stronger and stronger, but even at this early stage the wooden spoon looks inevitable, but a good season wil be determined by how many wins they pick up, and are showing signs that they may be able to upset a few teams.

What about your conclusions, do you agree?

HERSH wrote:

HERSH wrote:If you disagree then debate it rather than shouting wum and telling tales, some of you are acting like kids, grow up and please try and a have a view on the subject or just ignore it and continue agreeing with the previous posters views.

Ahh You said it was your last word. Poor little Hersh mummy's little soldier. (was that some good attention or what!?)

and yet you still can't debate, only throw insults at a fellow 606er who’s views differ to your own.

Now who’s trolling?

By the way great post Kingshu

Cheers for the thread/analysis Kingshu - makes very interesting discussion (if you ignore the predictable idiot).

Agree with your view of the Scarlets - i'm generally pleased with them but disappointed they haven't wised up to playing the ref or combating the more physical sides. We do seem to have plenty of strength in depth though (ignoring LH prop), I just hope that McCusker has learnt a lot in the last few games.

Smirnoffpriest wrote:Cheers for the thread/analysis Kingshu - makes very interesting discussion (if you ignore the predictable idiot).

Agree with your view of the Scarlets - i'm generally pleased with them but disappointed they haven't wised up to playing the ref or combating the more physical sides. We do seem to have plenty of strength in depth though (ignoring LH prop), I just hope that McCusker has learnt a lot in the last few games.

Looked previously that Scarlets were going to be the Brazil of the RP12 and that small details like "playing the ref" would matter little for their fluent running rugby would win the games and us rugby lovers over...!

It's so true - and we've always been the Brazil of the Welsh Riviera! But it's so frustrating when we lose games we could win, or because we aren't savy enough - like the 2 Munster losses last year.

HERSH makes some good points here. Sadly though, sometimes good points arnt enough in conversation.

You need to be likeable.

Hersh doesn't have to be likeable to make valid points that are listenable to. He should have his say and certainly be allowed it.

But he says Leinster don't now, and Munster probably haven't in the past, tried in Pro12?

To suggest so firstly, and righteously, undermines the quality of the Pro12. It says the 'bigger' sides can afford to take the foot off the gas because the opposition can be beaten easily by playing 2nd and 3rd string sides against them.... That's a presumption that can be found out when HEC does arrive and lowly Pro12 sides can hit outside league sides quite heavily and make them suffer and embarrass them. So much for the idea that lowly Pro 12 sides can't mix it with big teams.

So that kinda stops Hersh's theory in its tracks unless you take it off on a tangent. For Hersh to find some argument of merit he really has to make us believe that all Pro12 sides play the game of not taking the Pro12 league seriously, and they all keep their best performances for the HEC. (It has to be noted firmly that this is NOT Hersh's claim - he only accuses some Pro12 sides of abusing the league) But to go with the idea that all sides willingly underperform. Edinburgh then just holds back in Pro12. So Ospreys too are holding back... so Connacht are holding back, so Dragons are holding back, so Ulster is holding back, so Treviso is holding back.

And we all play this underperforming crud stuff over and over, all season long, and somehow all of us are still ready and able to rise two levels in ability and fitness to hit a needed peak at HEC that, for the time being, the best of England and France find it difficult to challenge?

The idea doesn't hold water. We're either all good and pretending to be bad in Pro12 or we're all bad and therefore shouldn't be making any inroads in the high quality atmosphere of HEC, and certainly none of us should be encroaching on the play-off stages. Can't have it both ways. Pro12 either produces the sides that can compete at HEC level or it doesn't - and I'd prefer to use that judgement as a basis for saying how good or bad a league is.

Good summation Kingshu. Spot on re Treviso. They had Leinster beat too, only for a moment of magic by Sexton. They can beat anyone in Europe at home now. Never mind the PRO12. None too shabby away either.

Id love to see Connacht rise up the table with them, after that thrashing they gave us last week. They will be an even stronger force, when they get 3 or 4 of their injured players back. Parks was a revelation for them. Really suits their style of play.

I also believe that Scarlets and Ulster, will find it harder as the season goes on and the HC kicks in. I believe they will contest that 4th spot. As could Blues, who are hard to work out, but they have some great players and will be thereabouts, as per. I expected Glasgow to move on up from last season and challenge for the Playoffs, but its not looking good right now. There is plenty of time yet. For Edinburgh too. Munster & Leinster will be in the Top 3. As will Ospreys. We all know that in our heart of hearts. Maybe this year will be different. I hope so. It would be healthy for the best League in the NH. Sexiest too.

It will be as close as last year - in my opinion, when 7 teams had a playoff-chance going into the last 2 games. Or even closer. Edinburgh & Glasgow(again), have it in them to make it.
Id love to see a team from each of Ireland, Scotland, Wales and Italy in the Playoffs - before long. Now wouldn't that be kudos? A Pan-European club league that actually works as designed?

Could BT afford or even conceive of that?

Believe.

hersh point is repeated time and time again - and its pish

The league starts in August and ends in May. A marathon runner who attempts to sprint from start to finish will definitely not win the race. He'll come last if he finishes at all.

Playing your best 15 players in every single match would be absolutely moronic as it would guarantee you won't win the league. A team has a squad of 30+ players for a reason you know. In fact the team that uses all their squad the most effectively is invariably the one that finishes top.

Every team rotates its squad - the english ones as well. the england squad players are limited in the number of games they can play.

TJ wrote:Every team rotates its squad - the english ones as well. the england squad players are limited in the number of games they can play.

TJ, FFS don't go telling the Truth man. It will cause a Posse Riot.

They just need sweet little lies to keep them in the HC game. The money won't solve what's really gone wrong at home. It goes far deeper than that. Best say nowt and see what gives.

When it comes down to the HC - they'll give. McCafferty is dust.

What an imbecile.

Posse Riot.