London Welsh vs Saracens English Premiership

by maestegmafia Fri 05 Oct 2012, 4:57 pm

Date: Sunday, October 7
Kick-off: 14:15 BST
Venue: Kassam Stadium
Referee: Luke Pearce
Assistant referees: Paul Dix, Nigel Carrick
Television match official: Graham Hughes
Timekeeper: Brian Abrahams

Two old, now exiled from London, adversaries meet for the first time since 1988. There are six changes that have been made by Lyn Jones to the starting line-up which went down narrowly 31-25 to Gloucester at the Kassam on Sunday.

Hooker Dan George, Gavin Henson and centre James Lewis replace Neil Briggs, Gordon Ross and Sonny Parker Briggs and Parker have injuries. As a key member of London Welsh's Championship winning team last season, former Ebbw Vale/Dragon centre James Lewis will be making his Premiership debut on Sunday. Canadian international Phil Mackenzie comes in on the ring wing, Tom Arscott reverting from 14 to 15, Former Quins academy Centre/Wing Seb Jewell named on the bench. Openside flanker Mike Denbee returns to the side following the injury replacing Michael Hills.

Saracens have rotated Alex Goode, Brad Barritt and Chris Ashton for Charlie Hodgson, David Strettle and James Short.

Like Strettle, George Kruis and Andy Saull both get their first game of the season. Nick Fenton-Wells and Kameli Ratuvou
could make their Saracens debuts.

Form: London Welsh started with two heavy defeats though almost put in three wins on the trot to see them rise quickly up the Prem table. Saracens beat Quins at The Stoop last Sunday without scoring a try. Worryingly for Saracens they haven't crossed the try line for three games. LW have scored four in the same amount of games.

This game may well not be the pasting that Saracens fans thought their team would be giving LW pre season. That said Saracens have to be huge favourites over newly promoted London Welsh who are playing with a budget of less than half Saracens.

The teams:

London Welsh: 15 Tom Arscott, 14 Phil MacKenzie, 13 James Lewis, 12 Hudson Tonga'uiha, 11 Nick Scott, 10 Gavin Henson, 9 Tyson Keats, 8 Ed Jackson, 7 Mike Denbee, 6 Daniel Browne, 5 Matt Corker, 4 Jonathan Mills (capt), 3 Paulica Ion, 2 Dan George, 1 Frank Montanella.
Replacements: 16 Greg Bateman, 17 Tom Bristow, 18 Arthur Joly, 19 Kirill Kulemin, Alfie To'oala, 21 Nick Runciman, 22 Ryan Davis, 23 Seb Jewell.

Saracens: 15 Chris Wyles, 14 David Strettle, 13 Joel Tomkins, 12 Owen Farrell, 11 James Short, 10 Charlie Hodgson, 9 Richard Wigglesworth, 8 Jackson Wray, 7 Andy Saull, 6 Will Fraser, 5 George Kruis, 4 Steve Borthwick (c), 3 Matt Stevens, 2 John Smit, 1 Rhys Gill.
Replacements: 16 Jamie George, 17 Mako Vunipola, 18 Carlos Nieto, 19 Mouritz Botha, 20 Nick Fenton-Wells, 21 Neil De Kock, 22 Kameli Ratuvou, 23 Duncan Taylor.

by ChequeredJersey Fri 05 Oct 2012, 4:59 pm

Fraser at 6 is interesting, not sure he and Saull together have a vast physical presence

by maestegmafia Fri 05 Oct 2012, 5:09 pm

Its still a pretty damn fine Sarries side. Not many weaknesses there. I guess they are looking to impose their vice like grip and strangle LW.

This might not be the impartial viewers recommended game to watch.

by doctor_grey Fri 05 Oct 2012, 5:32 pm

maestegmafia wrote:This game may well not be the pasting that Saracens fans thought their team would be giving LW pre season.

Yes, it will.

Saracens need to score tries. With the emphasis on 'need'. They may give up one or two, but will get their try bonus point easily, methinks.

by maestegmafia Fri 05 Oct 2012, 5:45 pm

doctor_grey wrote:
maestegmafia wrote:This game may well not be the pasting that Saracens fans thought their team would be giving LW pre season.
Yes, it will.

Saracens need to score tries. With the emphasis on 'need'. They may give up one or two, but will get their try bonus point easily, methinks.

Saracens seem far more concerned with winning than scoring tries.

by doctor_grey Fri 05 Oct 2012, 6:11 pm

That's the truth, mate. But Saracens have gone three matches without crossing the goal line. And in that time they had one win, one draw, and one loss. Not steller results for a team with their expectations. Even for the stodgiest (is that a word?) teams, that is a very long time. For a team which actually does have attacking talent, that is even worse. They need to cut loose and have a big victory, if for no other reason to get them back on track. This is why I believe this will be a big score: They will actually come out attacking and try to use their talent to the full.

by **LondonTiger** Fri 05 Oct 2012, 6:21 pm

I doubt they will be all out attacking. They will be trying to play a direct game and will try and keep the game in the LW half. Sarries attack can struggle with strong physical teams - hence why they seem to want to grind out wins. Against a fairly porous defence like LW though, I can see Charlie directing the attack with aplomb and a TBP secured.

by maestegmafia Sat 06 Oct 2012, 7:38 am

By Tom Moore wrote:London Welsh ace Daniel Browne: "Saracens should take us seriously or pay the price"

Friday, October 5, 2012
8:40 AM

London Welsh lock Daniel Browne believes that sides will start taking the Exiles seriously after their impressive start to the campaign.

The now-Oxford based side have won two of their first five games, with defeats coming against Harlequins, Leicester and Gloucester but claimed good wins over Exeter and Sale and the 26-year-old has seen some positives from the season so far.

“I think teams will start taking us more seriously now,” Browne told London24. “Those wins came against good sides. I think sides will be taking us a lot more seriously.

“Survival is the aim. If we can transfer the hard work onto the field we should be there or thereabouts.”

The next game for London Welsh is the visit of Saracens on Sunday and the All Black knows it is going to be a tough game.

“Saracens are playing some good rugby,” he explained. “They’ve been right in the hunt for the title. It’s not getting easier.

“We’re still going to work on our game plan. Hopefully we can transfer those things into the game.”

The key man for Mark McCall’s men is fly-half Owen Farrell, who showed his class with a 100 per cent display with the boot against Harlequins last weekend.

“The way he came back from his nightmare at Wembley [where he fluffed his kicks] shows the character he is,” Browne said.

“Discipline will be an important part for us. We can’t afford to give any penalties inside our own half. We’ve got to be whiter than white.”

The main aim for Browne and his team is to survive in England’s top flight and build the club in Oxford.

“This season is a real learning curve for us here,” he admitted.

“It’s the first season for London Welsh in the Premiership. We’re still getting to grips with everything.

“We’ve got a relatively small squad compared to others. We’re doing well so far and we need to keep building on our performances.

“The first two games were difficult for us. It was tough to get the two best teams in the league straight off the back.

“We bounced back from those defeats and proved we can compete in this division.

“I think we have to look at our game. We lacked a bit of experience and they had a few chances and they took them.

“We missed a few chances and took some bad options. Gloucester are a good side and they made us pay.

“The Kassam is a great stadium. It’s perfect for us. If we can get some support to come to the games, it’s going to be based on our performances.

“We had a lot of chances to win against Gloucester at the weekend. Hopefully the good people of Oxford will come and support.”

Despite a good start to the league campaign Browne is not going to allow himself to be carried away.

“Nobody expected us to do as well as we have,” he added. “We can’t look too far ahead. We’re realistic about where we want to be this season. We want to try and get some more wins.”

by BigTrevsbigmac Sat 06 Oct 2012, 8:00 am

Injury to Gordon Ross is a big loss to LW. He was key in their 2 wins so far.

by maestegmafia Sat 06 Oct 2012, 8:11 am

Ross has been magnificent for LW for a good three years. He's been a massive part in winning championship enabling the promotion.

Injuries effect clubs on small budgets much harder than the big boys. I saw Saracens dropped 8 cap Farrell for 36 Cap Hodgson, as well as Brits for Smit...

Tough life at the top eh...?

by BigTrevsbigmac Sat 06 Oct 2012, 8:19 am

maestegmafia wrote:Ross has been magnificent for LW for a good three years. He's been a massive part in winning championship enabling the promotion.

Injuries effect clubs on small budgets much harder than the big boys. I saw Saracens dropped 8 cap Farrell for 36 Cap Hodgson, as well as Brits for Smit...

Tough life at the top eh...?

I could go down the road -

Well if LW had taken their time & built up a solid business, squad etc it would be less of an effect. But I won't!

More pressure on the Orange One today then.

by maestegmafia Sat 06 Oct 2012, 8:25 am

BigTrevsbigmac wrote:
maestegmafia wrote:Ross has been magnificent for LW for a good three years. He's been a massive part in winning championship enabling the promotion.

Injuries effect clubs on small budgets much harder than the big boys. I saw Saracens dropped 8 cap Farrell for 36 Cap Hodgson, as well as Brits for Smit...

Tough life at the top eh...?

I could go down the road -

Well if LW had taken their time & built up a solid business, squad etc it would be less of an effect. But I won't!

It doesn't look like you need to despite the massive disparity between top four or five of the Prem and the lower ranked Prem sides below are not much different in ability to the Championship teams coming up. As proven two years in a row by LW and EC.

Teams like Wasps, London Irish and Sale would struggle just as much in the Championship as they currently do in the Premiership

BigTrevsbigmac wrote:More pressure on the Orange One today then.

Not sure why that will give Henson any added pressure. Or whether pressure will make any difference to his game.

by BigTrevsbigmac Sun 07 Oct 2012, 7:03 am

Exeter built up slowly & have a good business model, support etc. the exact opposite to LW.
LW had to panic buy to get players in to compete in the AP. Their 2 wins so far have surprised most people. Well done to the players. But that doesn't indicate that the teams in the bottom half of the AP are of similar quality to the Championship.

LI didn't look too shabby yesterday did they?

If I were you I would take a look at the very weak performances of the Blues & Dragons before doing down the likes of Wasps,LI & Sale.

by maestegmafia Sun 07 Oct 2012, 12:44 pm

BigTrevsbigmac wrote:Exeter built up slowly & have a good business model, support etc. the exact opposite to LW.
LW had to panic buy to get players in to compete in the AP. Their 2 wins so far have surprised most people. Well done to the players. But that doesn't indicate that the teams in the bottom half of the AP are of similar quality to the Championship.

LI didn't look too shabby yesterday did they?

If I were you I would take a look at the very weak performances of the Blues & Dragons before doing down the likes of Wasps,LI & Sale.

Bizarre comment Trev??? You seem to take that as some type of slur against the AP...?

London Irish did really well yesterday, no one predicted that did they..!

by BristolTaff Sun 07 Oct 2012, 2:28 pm

7-0 London Welsh!

Go Gav!

Seems like Welsh and Exeter are setting the bar this season. We need teams like Bath and Harlequins to catch up.

Bloody Hell Gav nearly scored a 93m penalty! Don't give any pens away Saracens!

by EnglishReign Sun 07 Oct 2012, 2:30 pm

Gav having a stormer, pleased for the bloke.

by BristolTaff Sun 07 Oct 2012, 2:30 pm

Cracking touch kick from Henson under pressure. The monster boot is still there.

by ChequeredJersey Sun 07 Oct 2012, 2:31 pm

How do Quins need to catch up? We lost against Exeter but we are still 4 from 6, beating Tigers and maiming Welsh. One round of matches a general statement about early season form does not make

by BristolTaff Sun 07 Oct 2012, 2:33 pm

Reds v White. Henson at 10. It's like a Wales v England game.

by ChequeredJersey Sun 07 Oct 2012, 2:34 pm

Except Welsh probably have more English players than Sarries Whistle

by BristolTaff Sun 07 Oct 2012, 2:35 pm

CHARGEDOWN CHARLIE!

I didn't see a chargedown there are you sure it's a try??

by BristolTaff Sun 07 Oct 2012, 2:36 pm

ChequeredJersey wrote:Except Welsh probably have more English players than Sarries

England in red, named as welsh vs South Africa in White, playing in England.

by BristolTaff Sun 07 Oct 2012, 2:38 pm

Wait a sec....

Is Austin Metro commentating?? GIVE ME EDDIE BUTLER PLEASE!

by beshocked Sun 07 Oct 2012, 2:46 pm

Star player for welsh so far is wearing yellow. Having an absolute cracker for them.

by BristolTaff Sun 07 Oct 2012, 2:54 pm

Kazzam stadium crowd only a few thousand higher than the average Ospreys attendance.

by beshocked Sun 07 Oct 2012, 2:55 pm

London Welsh offering nothing. Lucky to be only 9 points down.

by beshocked Sun 07 Oct 2012, 2:58 pm

Ref is heroically doing his bit for Welsh. Constantly penalising superior Saracens scrum.

by BristolTaff Sun 07 Oct 2012, 2:58 pm

Get Henson in the Wales team.

by munkian Sun 07 Oct 2012, 2:58 pm

Boring boring Saffacens. You've kicked most of your points and had 70% territory

by BristolTaff Sun 07 Oct 2012, 3:00 pm

ANOTHER BEAST FROM GAV COMING UP.

by ChequeredJersey Sun 07 Oct 2012, 3:01 pm

Haven't Welsh kicked most of their points too, looking at the score sheet?

by LeinsterFan4life Sun 07 Oct 2012, 3:02 pm

BristolTaff wrote:Kazzam stadium crowd only a few thousand higher than the average Ospreys attendance.

Ospreys are getting 8k a game. I doubt theres anywhere near as many there.

by BristolTaff Sun 07 Oct 2012, 3:04 pm

LeinsterFan4life wrote:
BristolTaff wrote:Kazzam stadium crowd only a few thousand higher than the average Ospreys attendance.
Ospreys are getting 8k a game.

8k? I'm guessing that their ticket revenue LOL.

by beshocked Sun 07 Oct 2012, 3:04 pm

Munkian are you watching the game? Saracens are doing all the attacking. Only cynical play and the ref are keeping LW in this game.

LW's only decent attack was a Sarries mistake.

by munkian Sun 07 Oct 2012, 3:04 pm

With what little possession they've had and they've got a try.

First Saracens try in 5 hours of play apparently, how many of those hours has Ashton played by the way ? Is he injured today or re re-writing the book on wing play ?

by Guest Sun 07 Oct 2012, 3:09 pm

Hilarious, Austin Healy reckons Henson will struggle with the intensity and physicality of the Premiership! Laugh

by Guest Sun 07 Oct 2012, 3:11 pm

I heard Ashton is close to sealing a second book deal, wing play part deux harder faster stronger this time it's personal.

by BristolTaff Sun 07 Oct 2012, 3:13 pm

Will Shane Williams donate a season to London Welsh after he comes back from Japan and gives Wales a 2nd spell when George North is on his 6 month sabbatical on Krypton?

by Artful_Dodger Sun 07 Oct 2012, 3:13 pm

viewtothegym wrote:I heard Ashton is close to sealing a second book deal, wing play part deux harder faster stronger this time it's personal.

by BristolTaff Sun 07 Oct 2012, 3:14 pm

munkian wrote:Poor Gav, so misunderstood.

No wonder Stevens did loads of coke, I'd need it to stay awake playing for that team too

Saracens are the English Munster. It used to be Leicester.

by beshocked Sun 07 Oct 2012, 3:15 pm

Munkian LW have created absolutely nothing. It was a soft try - a Sarries error.

LW have made Saracens look creative. Just says it all really.

Can LW's star player wearing yellow continue to perform for LW in the 2nd half? If so LW might steal this.

by munkian Sun 07 Oct 2012, 3:15 pm

Poor Saffas, so misunderstood

by Artful_Dodger Sun 07 Oct 2012, 3:17 pm

BristolTaff wrote:
munkian wrote:Poor Gav, so misunderstood.

No wonder Stevens did loads of coke, I'd need it to stay awake playing for that team too

Saracens are the English Munster. It used to be Leicester.

Munster are all about their backs this season.

by LeinsterFan4life Sun 07 Oct 2012, 3:33 pm

BristolTaff wrote:
LeinsterFan4life wrote:
BristolTaff wrote:Kazzam stadium crowd only a few thousand higher than the average Ospreys attendance.
Ospreys are getting 8k a game.

8k? I'm guessing that their ticket revenue LOL.

Wow that was a bad joke picard

by Guest Sun 07 Oct 2012, 3:39 pm

Wow honestly how can this league be touted as the best?
There is so much standing around, its like watching the local cricket team on a lazy summers afternoon.

by Guest Sun 07 Oct 2012, 3:51 pm

Wow you know a league is crud when your top three points scores are Charlie boy, pie man Goode and Olly average

by beshocked Sun 07 Oct 2012, 3:53 pm

Ref continues his shocker. LW are being given so much leeway.

by Guest Sun 07 Oct 2012, 3:58 pm

Henson pulling the strings, shame he hasn't got a decent pack to play behind

by beshocked Sun 07 Oct 2012, 4:02 pm

So many wasted chances. Jammy LW could steal this at the death. Such a shame if an even more limited side than Sarries prevails.

by BristolTaff Sun 07 Oct 2012, 4:05 pm

ABSOUTELY EPIC TRY!!

RIDICULOUS pass from Henson.

Unless Wales start picking Hook at 10 we could really do with a passing 10 like that Smile

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