my england v fiji team

1.doran_jones
2.t.youngs
3.cole
4.lawes
5.parling
6.wood
7.robshaw
8.morgan
9.simpson
10.burns
11.ashton
12.tuilagi
13.joseph
14.wade
15.brown

16.webber
17.wilson
18.palmer
19.waldrom
20.b.youngs
21.flood
22.barritt



my ideal team would be
1.marler
2.hartley
3.cole
4.lawes
5.launcbury
6.wood
7.robshaw
8.morgan
9.b.youngs
10.ford
11.ashton
12.burrell
13.tuilagi
14.wade
15.foden

16.youngs
17.corbesiero
18.garvey
19b.vunipola
20.simpson
21.burns
22.joseph

If the second team is your preferred onbe, what the hell is the first?
Why have you included long term injured?

second one more for 2015

I think you have to make space for Fearns on the bench v Fiji...Gary Gold has got him firing ...(probably lots to do with his fitness)

Not sure how flavour of the month Burrell has jumped over one of Englands stand out players over the last 12 months - Barritt at 12.

Burns has played more games than Ford and looked very good...so i would say he has to be ahead at the moment.

Dont forget though...as many have said before...the AI's go towards WC seedings...so you wont see too much experimentation.

I would have thought Danny Care is doing really well and definitely the guy for the #9 shirt. Is Burns doing that well to creep ahead of Flood and Farrell.

A question - how is Jordan Turner Hall doing this year. I always liked him is he is contention for Saxons/England?

Stag,

I would have Burns in the squad...if his form stays the same...but probably start Flood with Burns on the bench.
Farrell should be nowhere near the England team until he improves his basic skills like passing and running with the ball.

Care would be my starter aswell.

I cant really comment on Turner hall mate...havent seen him much this season...im Quins fans will inform you.

I dont think there will be any huge surprises to the team...only really injury changes...
The only position i would really experiment against fiji is the Second Row...where we are very poor.

C'mon guys we all know Farrell will be picked ahead of Burns.

Why?

Because Daddy said so.

Hersh,

I hope not mate...he's just not quite ready yet. Everyone knows it...so if he is selected it will look a little biased.

Farrell could be a top player...and i really hope he works on his weak areas...(i think the whole sarries team / backs need to actually)

But for the moment...we need to look elsewhere. Flood will probably start...then its whos playing the best rugby from the youngsters...Burns, Ford, Heathcote etc. At the moment its probably Burns...but that could change.

GeordieFalcon wrote:I think you have to make space for Fearns on the bench v Fiji...Gary Gold has got him firing ...(probably lots to do with his fitness)

Not sure how flavour of the month Burrell has jumped over one of Englands stand out players over the last 12 months - Barritt at 12.

Burns has played more games than Ford and looked very good...so i would say he has to be ahead at the moment.

Dont forget though...as many have said before...the AI's go towards WC seedings...so you wont see too much experimentation.

Absolutely agree. After watching him at the weekend, I'm convinced he deserves a start in the AIs at 6. A backrow of 6. Fearns 7. Robshaw 8. Morgan has great potential in my opinion. The work rate and dogged breakdown effort of Fearns and Robshaw would be immense, and allow Morgan time and space to get ball in hand and do what he does best. Comparing Fearns' season to Wood's so far, I thik Fearns deserves to backrow spot more than him. Johnson's been effective so far this season too, but there's so much competition for a backrow spot, I think SL should experiment against Fiji.

We do need to watch the lineout options in the back row aswell though Blue. It is still a criticial part of the game.

But for the moment without Croft...and Wood not quite firing...i think its between Fearns and Johnson for the starting spot in the AI's.
We should be very strong at the breakdown with that back row you;ve listed and the likes of Cole etc.

What about the second rows. Thats my biggest area of concern...even more than the 12 problem...

I think Robshaw is underrated in the lineout- he's a very dependable jumper in my opinion. Combined with two locks (either Parling and Palmer, or Parling and Botha, or Lawes even if he's ready) who are both good lineout options, I think we could afford that backrow.

adambarney wrote:1.doran_jones
2.t.youngs
3.cole
4.lawes
5.parling
6.wood
7.robshaw
8.morgan
9.simpson
10.burns
11.ashton
12.tuilagi
13.joseph
14.wade
15.brown

16.webber
17.wilson
18.palmer
19.waldrom
20.b.youngs
21.flood
22.barritt



my ideal team would be
1.marler
2.hartley
3.cole
4.lawes
5.launcbury
6.wood
7.robshaw
8.morgan
9.b.youngs
10.ford
11.ashton
12.burrell
13.tuilagi
14.wade
15.foden

16.youngs
17.corbesiero
18.garvey
19b.vunipola
20.simpson
21.burns
22.joseph

Just a couple of things really. I know Paul Doran-Jones can cover both sides of the scrum, but he is almost exclusively a tighthead for Saints now and for my money Marler is already a better scrummager.

The looseheads we have in the EPS and Saxons at the moment are; Alex Corbisiero (injured), Joe Marler, Matt Mullan and Mako Vunipola. So assuming he isn’t injured, I’d bet my landladies house on Joe Marler being the starting loosehead in a months’ time. In fact if Matt Mullan gets injured (he always gets injured) I have a sneaking suspicion that Vunipola might get the bench spot for the Fiji match.

I agree that Danny Care must get the starting nine shirt, he is the best performing English nine at the moment. Give Youngs a chance to get back into club rugby and then see where we go for the later AI’s.

I agree about Wood too. He needs to play his way back into form, he's not had long back from a long injury lay off. I'd like to see Fearns given a go, but I suspect it will be Johnson (who is a very good player too TBH)

Whoevers selected Cumbrian Johnson or Fearns...and in the other spots...we need to see much more from the guys with the ball this time.

Morgan needs to show he can carry and play for 80mins....Marler needs to show his running ability now he has experienced SA...Fearns is a power house and needs to make the yards...and Johnson is a very very good runner who after probably being in shell shock about SA's power needs to show what he can do...and we need to see this starting against Fiji.

PS i think it'll be something like...

1 Marler
2 Hartley (VC)
3 Cole (imagine he gets injured v Fiji )
4 Palmer
5 Parling
6 Johnson
7 Robshaw (C)
8 Morgan

9 Care
10 Flood
11 Monye
12 Barritt
13 Tuilagi
14 Ashton
15 Brown

16 Tom Youngs
17 Davy Wilson or Doran Jones
18 Lawes
19 Vunipola
20 Simpson
21 Burns
22 Joseph
23 Fearns

Ideal England line-up:

1. Corbisiero
2. Hartley
3. Cole
4. Lawes
5. Garvey
6. Robshaw
7. Armitage
8. Morgan

9. Youngs
10. Burns
11. Tuilagi
12. Twelvetrees
13. JJ
14. Ashton
15. Brown

Subs: Youngs, Marler, Launchbury, Fearns, Care, Ford, Wade

What we end up seeing will be very very different.

As we have discussed on the other thread mate....id be amazed if we saw Garvey in there....i would like it...but be amazed!!!

I firmly believe Armitage is not in the picture at all...
And Tuilagi isnt a winger...
BUt a few good suggestions all the same...

We need to think...Fiji wont be a pushover...however we should still beat them quite comfortably...thus putting Flood, Barritt etc in to give them a chance to run some plays and try to create things. We also need to see our big carriers getting on the ball sucking defenders in and creating space.
Fiji is the best team to practice against cos we wont get much space or time in the next 3 games....

If they cant do it against Fiji then we do have a problem in the midfield...

I think it'll be:
Marler, Hartley, Cole, Palmer, Parling, Robshaw, Wood, Morgan; Care, Flood, Ashton, Barritt, Tuilagi, Joseph, Brown

Would like it to be:
Marler (never going to be Wood, but it should be!), Hartley, Cole, Lawes, Palmer, Johnson, Robshaw, Morgan; Care, Burns, May, Tuilagi, Joseph, Wade (again should be Sinbad, on form the best English winger at the mo), Brown

GeordieFalcon wrote:As we have discussed on the other thread mate....id be amazed if we saw Garvey in there....i would like it...but be amazed!!!

I firmly believe Armitage is not in the picture at all...
And Tuilagi isnt a winger...
BUt a few good suggestions all the same...

We need to think...Fiji wont be a pushover...however we should still beat them quite comfortably...thus putting Flood, Barritt etc in to give them a chance to run some plays and try to create things. We also need to see our big carriers getting on the ball sucking defenders in and creating space.
Fiji is the best team to practice against cos we wont get much space or time in the next 3 games....

If they cant do it against Fiji then we do have a problem in the midfield...

Yea, I know, but as I said - my ideal team, not that that I think will start.

I just think having Manu or JJ on the wing allows us to get both of our most dangerous attacking threats on the ball at the same time.

Obviously not literally

For my money, we have to nail Fiji, this is all about 2015... for that reason, I would limit experimentation, bring in Allen alongside clubmate Tuilagi and give them a chance. This is by no means an ideal selection but the one I think that makes the most sense and is the most possible selection by Lancaster :

1. Marler
2. Gray (assuming Hartley is injured - Youngs can't throw lineout ball)
3. Cole
4. Lawes (if still fit and showing form)
5. Parling
6. Johnson (the shirt is his to lose, and has been playing well)
7. Robshaw
8. Morgan
9. Care
10. Burns (although god help me it will be Flood won't it)
11. Wade
12. Allen
13. Tuilagi
14. Ashton
15. Brown

subs
Webber
Wilson
Doran-Jones
Haskell
Flood
Josephs
Goode

2. Gray (assuming Hartley is injured - Youngs can't throw lineout ball

Its improved rapidly though...and with Youngs physicality and agression i have him way over Gray.

Obviously didn't see most of the filth he has been throwing at lineout time all season then!!! Single handedly nearly cost Leicester the game against London Welsh of all teams, and was then shocking in their home defeat by Quins. For all he gives in the loose (and I am a massive admirer) if you can't throw lineout ball you should be nowhere near the first team of a Prem club - let alone a bloody International side!

Wydnej wrote:Single handedly nearly cost Leicester the game against London Welsh of all teams

Didnt you win by a 25 point margin.

I am no Tigers fan good sir! Merely meant that on multiple attacking lineout ball against Welsh normally around 5 metre line, the ball he threw was poor. Meaning that what could have been a Tigers romp, was merely a pedestrian win which could have been turned (ok admittedly unlikely) into a Welsh win...

Fact remains, if George Chuter has to come on to save your arse... you're not ready.

I didnt think it was as bad as that.

I agree that lineout is key which is why im dissapointed with Lindsay at Wasps as he would be sensational ...but just cant throw.

Hartley is out on his own at the moment. Im just simply not a fan of Gray...

Gray to me seems a little lightweight, but he does get through some carries, not in the same ball park as Hartley in his pomp, but what he does have is accurate lineout ball. If we play any of these teams in the AI's with a poor lineout throw then we will be in trouble - Saffers will pilfer us left right and centre, one of our main attacking components won't function against the Aussies... and well, it probably won't matter either way against the Kiwis.

Gray is the best option at present to back up Hartley. As you say Lindsay and George haven't kicked on yet, and when Youngs sorts his throw out we'll have a good selection. At least things are developing from where they were 2 years ago with Mears as back up!

I dont think Gray is lightweight per say...he 6'1 and 16st i think...i cant put my finger on it...just doesnt get my vote.

George is getting some gametime but not enough in my eyes to start making the big progress he should be and Lindsay needs to do serious overtime on his throwing.

Hartley starts...then i think it'll still be Youngs...but you may be right with Gray.

PS will it matter without the likes of Croft, Wood in poor form, and not being totally impressed with Parling or Robson in the other parts of their game away from the lineout...ie Bortwhick

Bit harsh on Parling, I think he's put in a fair bit of application to bring up the other areas of his game, his tackle count for one is definitely up. With Lawes alongside him and Robshaw and Johnson as additional line out options we should have enough of an armory there, its certainly worth defending what potential we do have with a good thrower.

To be honest Win SR is the area im most concerned with when talking about England.

Lineout Guys:
Parling - is decent lineout operator...but never going to be in a Worlds Best team.
Robson - for all i appreciate his lineout expertise...looks lightweight in the rest of his game...
Kitchener - Improving with every game. Lineout guy with some considerable skills.
Kennedy - In France and never fancied
Hudson - Playing in championship for Falcons.

Power Second Rowers:
Garvey - Well who knows whats happened there....personally i think hes a cracking player...but something happened in that Saxons game
Slater - Young Powerhouse...learning with Tigers. Too soon?
Attwood - Finally seems to be finding his feet again under Gary Gold...should be back in the squad
Savage - Powerful guy...is he at the international level?
Deacon - Injured, seemingly forever.
Kohn - Monster forward...is he international class...or too old for this regime?
Botha - He tries hard...but not good enough.

Alrounders:
Lawes - Is he a power forward or a lineout guy - a mix (complete) or a 6. Plus hes still finding his feet after a long time out.
Launchbury - The big hope...will probably get game sin the AI's
Palmer - The complete modern lock forward...maybe im overly critical of him. He has been excellent in recent years for England.

Am i overly critical?

Is Hartley actually going to be fit for the AI's?

I think the team that we'll see will be:

1. Marler
2. Hartley- Youngs if Hartley is broken
3. Cole
4. Palmer
5. Parling
6. Johnson- Haskell if Johnson is bust
7. Robshaw
8. Morgan
9. Youngs
10. Flood
11. The only position where it could genuinely be anyone- Wade, May, Monye, Joseph, Tuilagi,Lowe
12. Barritt
13. Tuilagi
14. Ashton
15. Brown

We'll see very little variation except where it's been forced by injuries, but perhaps that's a good thing.

Red Stag, as to JTH he is a very good ball carrier and tackler at 12 but doesn't really offer anything different to Barritt and there is still the tinyest chance that Barritt may learn to pass as well.

Yappy - agree with your pick, that's definitely the most likely selection by Lancaster, only quibble might be Palmer being replaced by Botha or Lawes.

I'd also suggest that Lancaster may prefer Goode over Brown. Not my choice as I believe Brown to be a superior full-back.

Wade will certainly get some game time at some point in these internationals. Lowe is crocked so out of the running, and he didn't shine on the wing against Wasps in the LDH! However that was more to do with the cover tackling that was abysmal and left him isolated.

Wydnej wrote:Yappy - agree with your pick, that's definitely the most likely selection by Lancaster, only quibble might be Palmer being replaced by Botha or Lawes.

I'd also suggest that Lancaster may prefer Goode over Brown. Not my choice as I believe Brown to be a superior full-back.

Wade will certainly get some game time at some point in these internationals. Lowe is crocked so out of the running, and he didn't shine on the wing against Wasps in the LDH! However that was more to do with the cover tackling that was abysmal and left him isolated.

Ah yea I forgot Lowe was busted. I was going from his very good showing on the wing for the midweekers on the SA tour.

Regarding Hartley, from the news reports I have found, the Saints medical team expected him to be fit two weeks after the injury was sustained at the end of September/ start of October. Should be fine for the AIs.

Wydnej wrote:Obviously didn't see most of the filth he has been throwing at lineout time all season then!!! Single handedly nearly cost Leicester the game against London Welsh of all teams, and was then shocking in their home defeat by Quins. For all he gives in the loose (and I am a massive admirer) if you can't throw lineout ball you should be nowhere near the first team of a Prem club - let alone a bloody International side!

Dont think your being that accurate with your assessment there. He has a success rate of over 85%, of course it could do with improvement but its nowhere near as bad as your making it out to be.