England v Fiji, 19 November

 
ENGLAND v FIJI
19 November 2016
14:30 GMT (UTC+0)
Twickenham Stadium, London

Live on [Sky Sports 1]

Referee: Marius Mitrea (Italy)
Assistant referees: Paul Williams (New Zealand), Lloyd Linton (Scotland)
Television match official: Gareth Simmonds (Wales)
Assessor: Mark Lawrence (South Africa)

A. Head to Head

6 Played 6
6 Won 0
0 Drawn 0
0 Lost 6
245 Points 94

B. Recent Form

18 September 2015
England 35 - 11 Fiji
Twickenham

10 November 2012
England 54 - 12 Fiji
Twickenham

20 October 1999
England 45 - 24 Fiji
Twickenham

20 July 1991
Fiji 12 - 28 England
National Stadium, Suva

04 November 1989
England 58 - 23 Fiji
Twickenham

17 June 1988
Fiji 12 - 25 England
National Stadium, Suva

C. Teams

ENGLAND 

A Goode; S Rokoduguni, J Joseph, O Farrell, E Daly; G Ford, B Youngs; M Vunipola, D Hartley, D Cole, J Launchbury, C Lawes, C Robshaw , T Harrison, B Vunipola.

Replacements: J George, J Marler, K Sinckler, C Ewels, N Hughes, D Care, B Te'o, H Slade.

FIJI

M Talebula; B Masilevu, A Tikoirotuma, A Vulivuli, N Nadolo; J Matavesi, S Vularika; C Ma'afu, S Koto Vuli, M Saulo, A Ratuniyarawa, L Nakarawa, D Waqaniburotu, P Yato, A Qera.

Replacements: T Talemaitoga, P Ravai, L Atalifo, N Soqeta, N Dawai, E Radrodro, N Matawalu, K Murimurivalu.

This is not club rugby......

I see we are down in the records as meeting Fiji 6 times. We've met on at least one other occasion, when we just didn't hand out caps. It's a small shortcoming in the record, because the decision on caps was often arbitrary.

In 1979, England toured Japan, Fiji and Tonga, playing Japan twice, and once each against the two islander teams. Bill Beaumont was captain, and the squad was full or regular England players, but none of the four tests counted as official. England's opponents awarded caps to their players. England won them all but probably should have lost the second match against Japan.

The same happened in 2012 when Ireland played Fiji at Thomond Park. It was a second string Irish side, but I think the only reason it wasn't an official test is due to a contractual obligation to play such matches at the Aviva.

Cheers for that Rugby Fan. Your 1 post was 100x more interesting then 13 pages of Beshocked & 7 1/2 quarrelling.

Listening to EJ I expect a couple of starting changes maximum.

And then more use of the bench if the starters go well.

I have no idea how strong their team was but Fiji were humped by the barbarians. We should expect to take them apart.

From what I've read in several papers, the team looks like something like

15 Brown
14 Yarde/May (I'd start May)
13 Daly
12 Te'o
11 Roko
10 Farrell
9 Youngs/Care (I'd start Care)
8 Billy/Hughes (Billy possibly out injured)
7 Hughes/Wood
6 Robshaw/Hughes
5 Lawes
4 Launch
3 Sinckler
2 Hartley
1 Marler

Genge, George, Cole, Attwood, ???, the other scrum half, ???, ???

I'd guess Beaumont, Ford and Joseph on the bench, but would rather have Slade than Ford

yappysnap wrote:Listening to EJ I expect a couple of starting changes maximum.

And then more use of the bench if the starters go well.

I have no idea how strong their team was but Fiji were humped by the barbarians. We should expect to take them apart.

Not what he's been implying! Every paper reckons Marler, Sinckler, Te'o, Hughes, Roko to start

Sounds like Attwood is out with a knee problem. Could be wrong

lostinwales wrote:Sounds like Attwood is out with a knee problem. Could be wrong

No your right & Charlie Ewells is retained & will cover. Beaumont hasn't been brought in.

Fresh slate from now yappy, promise! Can't wait for this game, got tickets, looking forward to seeing what I expect will be a very good performance and not too many changes.

http://m.bathchronicle.co.uk/england-boss-eddie-jones-explains-exclusion-of-bath-rugby-winger-semesa-rokoduguni/story-29889932-detail/story.html

Eddie Jones wants Roko to get 30 - 40 caps but appears to be managing the mental side of his game carefully. Roko is considered to be a quiet, considerate, humble guy but he is in the military and Jones wants that hard edge to come to the fore.

Jones stated he wants to see more players pushing through, but that their performances have to fully warrant that. He is not willing to gift players caps - which is fair enough.

With Billy having taken a knock, and Attwood out - it would make sense to start with Hughes and I guess Ewels on the bench with Harrison? Elsewhere I can see Roku coming in for Yarde and much longer appearances from the bench for George and Te'o. Doubt we will see Goode play (though I am in the minority who feel he has been decent for England and would be interested in seeing him, but feel we would learn nothing from a game against Fiji). Hopefully Daly gets another runout.

Daly must get another run out, it'd be pointless surely to swap him after 1 start.

His long range boot is key for early scoreboard pressure.

ChequeredJersey wrote:From what I've read in several papers, the team looks like something like

15 Brown
14 Yarde/May (I'd start May)
13 Daly
12 Te'o
11 Roko
10 Farrell
9 Youngs/Care (I'd start Care)
8 Billy/Hughes (Billy possibly out injured)
7 Hughes/Wood
6 Robshaw/Hughes
5 Lawes
4 Launch
3 Sinckler
2 Hartley
1 Marler

Genge, George, Cole, Attwood, ???, the other scrum half, ???, ???

I'd guess Beaumont, Ford and Joseph on the bench, but would rather have Slade than Ford

I do like this side and hope Eddie does not feel the need to play the strongest players again. Whilst I appreciate the benefits of continuity I do think that the more important benefits for this match are to see other players given a chance AND to rest some of our stars prior to playing back to back matches against Argentina and Australia. Therefore giving Mako, Dan, Joe, Billy, Chris and George a rest can only be a good thing. I don't want Joe to get injured or knackered out so hoping Eddie can partner someone else with Courtney.

Others, like Dylan, Courtney, Owen, Elliot, Mike all need the game time.

From the Daily Mail below. Shame on the RFU really It would not have killed them to pay £150k as a gesture of goodwill. They may not have to make this payment, but clearly it would have been the right thing to do.

"Fiji's players are set to earn just £400 each for Saturday's sold-out Test against England after the RFU turned down their request for £150,000 of the bumper revenue.

The Twickenham showpiece is expected to generate up to £10million, but England chiefs have only agreed to give £75,000 as a gesture of goodwill to the cash-strapped Pacific Islanders.

Eddie Jones' stars will earn £22,000 each and Sportsmail understands the Fiji camp are deeply disappointed with the settlement offered to them by the world's richest union.

Host nations are not obliged to share any revenue with their opponents, but Fiji feel they deserve more of a cut because England have not played in Suva since 1991.

A source told Sportsmail: 'It's fine for the big nations like South Africa because they get their pay day when England go back to play in Durban and Johannesburg.

'These guys rarely come to play in Fiji so there's very little revenue there. It's not reciprocated. The Fiji players are only getting pocket money. They're disappointed.

'A £150,000 allowance would have gone a long way because Fiji Rugby are working on a shoestring. They have a limited amount of kit because of things like excess-baggage costs.'
Due to funding shortages, the squad are believed to have used a free training pitch while in camp in Toulouse, where they stayed in Ibis hotel rooms costing less than £50 a night. RFU CEO Ian Ritchie signed off the deal with his Fijian counterpart, having recently earned a £100,000 bonus after helping generate a £407.1m turnover in 2015-16.

World Rugby pay for Fiji's economy airfare, while the tier-one host union are obliged to pay for the cost of hotels, food and coach travel during their time in England.

Furthermore, the Fijian union are fighting to keep hold of emerging players because of the talent drain sparked by the three-year residency rule.

Nathan Hughes is the latest Fijian to qualify through residency, with the Lautoka-born No 8 due to make his full England debut on Saturday against his country of birth.

The RFU recently announced record profits of £102.3m. The RFU declined to comment on Monday.

Thats awful if true.

Are WR still refusing to pay the Fiji union money?

I all ways thought in these games the visiting got 25% of the takings.

No wander the big nations can afford (top) wages for a (top) coach.

That's not good at all - what a huge gulf. Fiji deserve the £150000 even if they're not entitled to it. They bring so much to the game.

Its pretty shocking

1.5% of match revenue is not a lot to give away

That is terrible, really disappointing to hear the RFU have chose. To do that.

Really poor from the RFU. As the richest union in rugby they should be setting a better example than that in terms of investing in furthering the game.

It would be fantastic if the players took matters into their own hands by donating a chunk of their £21,000 match fee to a worthy cause such as Wooden Spoon.

1.Mako 2.Hartley 3.Cole 4.Launchbury 5.Lawes 6.Robshaw 7.Hughes 8.Vunipola
9.Youngs 10.Ford 11.May 12.Farrell 13.Joseph 14.Roko 15.Goode

16.George 17.Marler 18.Sinckler 19.Ewels 20.Harrison 21.Care 22.Te'o 23.Daly

Sounds like that judging by the reports from journalist who have watched combinations in training. I'd like Slade to be involved and George get a start but can't see either happening.

Technically none of the other unions give Fiji anything but covering travel expenses...


The RFU should imo give them more but that doesn't give everyone else a moral free pass

king_carlos wrote:Really poor from the RFU. As the richest union in rugby they should be setting a better example than that in terms of investing in furthering the game.

It would be fantastic if the players took matters into their own hands by donating a chunk of their £21,000 match fee to a worthy cause such as Wooden Spoon.

1.Mako 2.Hartley 3.Cole 4.Launchbury 5.Lawes 6.Robshaw 7.Hughes 8.Vunipola
9.Youngs 10.Ford 11.May 12.Farrell 13.Joseph 14.Roko 15.Goode

16.George 17.Marler 18.Sinckler 19.Ewels 20.Harrison 21.Care 22.Te'o 23.Daly

Sounds like that judging by the reports from journalist who have watched combinations in training. I'd like Slade to be involved and George get a start but can't see either happening.

Wasted team in my opinion.

ChequeredJersey wrote:

king_carlos wrote:Really poor from the RFU. As the richest union in rugby they should be setting a better example than that in terms of investing in furthering the game.

It would be fantastic if the players took matters into their own hands by donating a chunk of their £21,000 match fee to a worthy cause such as Wooden Spoon.

1.Mako 2.Hartley 3.Cole 4.Launchbury 5.Lawes 6.Robshaw 7.Hughes 8.Vunipola
9.Youngs 10.Ford 11.May 12.Farrell 13.Joseph 14.Roko 15.Goode

16.George 17.Marler 18.Sinckler 19.Ewels 20.Harrison 21.Care 22.Te'o 23.Daly

Sounds like that judging by the reports from journalist who have watched combinations in training. I'd like Slade to be involved and George get a start but can't see either happening.

Wasted team in my opinion.

Agreed to an extent CJ. Would much rather see Slade get a chance at 12, Hughes and 8 and George starting. I'd take Haley over Goode as well given he has the potential to be more than a safe pair of hands when injuries strike - which is all Goode currently does in the squad.

Goode at 15 makes sense if Te'o plays 12, otherwise I think not


If Farrell starts at 12 against Fiji we miss a good chance to look at another 12 and/or Farrell at 10 for England with no Ford to create and/or Ford having to take the kicks

Similarly, what's the point in seeing the same props out again?

I think we'll see the same front row simply to give them game time together after the pummeling they took in a few scrums against SA. For 3 guys who have played a lot of rugby together they were struggling as a unit as well individually.

Hartley especially looked way further off his best than he did after his previous injury break. I think George will be sitting on the bench again just to get the skipper as much time as possible to get sharper.

I'd much rather Slade get a chance at 12 and taking kicks because I think he offers much more than Te'o. Farrell, Joseph and Daly have all shown that you don't need to be huge to make yards from hard carries. Good lines, subtle footwork and pace from Daly/Joseph have allowed them to get over the gain line from crash ball. I'd rather not see a guy tried simply as a 'bigger option' if he wont offer more than the incumbents - which I don't think Te'o will.

king_carlos wrote:I'd rather not see a guy tried simply as a 'bigger option' if he wont offer more than the incumbents - which I don't think Te'o will.

Eddie Jones:

Q: Do you think coach Eddie would hire player Eddie?

A: No. Too small. If I had a bigger player I’d get a bigger player. That’s one of the things about coaching now. I don’t favor small players I want big, strong players. But if I see a good player that’s absolutely determined then I’ll pick them.

http://www.asahi.com/ajw/articles/AJ201607050009.html

king_carlos wrote:I think we'll see the same front row simply to give them game time together after the pummeling they took in a few scrums against SA. For 3 guys who have played a lot of rugby together they were struggling as a unit as well individually.

Hartley especially looked way further off his best than he did after his previous injury break. I think George will be sitting on the bench again just to get the skipper as much time as possible to get sharper.

I'd much rather Slade get a chance at 12 and taking kicks because I think he offers much more than Te'o. Farrell, Joseph and Daly have all shown that you don't need to be huge to make yards from hard carries. Good lines, subtle footwork and pace from Daly/Joseph have allowed them to get over the gain line from crash ball. I'd rather not see a guy tried simply as a 'bigger option' if he wont offer more than the incumbents - which I don't think Te'o will.

This seems like a backward step. Why would England want to play Gatlandball?

Fiji got battered by the Baa Baas - we should be winning this with ease no matter which of the 25 players start

Starting Goode is a waste of time in this game, we already know he can look great against Premiership level opposition, and a team that lost 40-7 to the Barbarians is probably barely that

If he does play, I fully expect him to look like a world beater. Just to save myself a week of arguing with beshocked about whether he should then start against Argentina, I dearly hope Jones doesn't play him

I would be disappointed if Daly is shunted out right after his first start. I sincerely hope that if JJ does come in this was a pre-planned thing and both guys knew they were getting a game each.

As far as Goode goes, the only valid reason for selecting him in this game is if he will also play against Argentina. There is very little to learn this week, though I suppose seeing him one on one defensively with some of those big Fijian runners could be illuminating.

LondonTiger wrote:

As far as Goode goes, the only valid reason for selecting him in this game is if he will also play against Argentina. There is very little to learn this week, though I suppose seeing him one on one defensively with some of those big Fijian runners could be comical.

edited for accuracy

Bambam No actually I would rest Brown vs Fiji and play him against Argentina.

Goode looks good against European level opposition too.

I will be disappointed if Jones doesn't make that many changes. It should be about the squad, not just the first XV.

England should beat Fiji even with a weakened side.

It's Jamie George who I want to see start the most, his good form should be rewarded.

hugehandoff Hartley,Brown,Lawes and Farrell do not need game time, they are already sufficiently experienced.

I think it's a waste to play them.


Also I don't like Eddie Jones putting players on pedestals.

Glad to see Wood out, whatever his merits around the park, his scrummaging is pathetic. Hughes will give us a much better platform at the set piece.

Not sure what the point of Goode is apart from resting Brown. The prospect of him standing in the way of Nadolo at full pelt is.....well, comical as someone's already said.

beshocked wrote:Bambam No actually I would rest Brown vs Fiji and play him against Argentina.

Goode looks good against European level opposition too.

I will be disappointed if Jones doesn't make that many changes. It should be about the squad, not just the first XV.

England should beat Fiji even with a weakened side.

It's Jamie George who I want to see start the most, his good form should be rewarded.

hugehandoff Hartley,Brown,Lawes and Farrell do not need game time, they are already sufficiently experienced.

I think it's a waste to play them.


Also I don't like Eddie Jones putting players on pedestals.

It's not just about experience, it's players coming back from injury needing to get up to match fitness/international level speed.

Who is Eddie 'putting on a pedestal'?

Cyril wrote:Who is Eddie 'putting on a pedestal'?

No-one.

LondonTiger wrote:

Cyril wrote:Who is Eddie 'putting on a pedestal'?

No-one.

Definitely not Goode at any rate

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/37994670

Beeb saying Hughes in for Wood at 7, Roko for Yarde and Goode in for Brown at FB, with JJ possibly taking over from Daly at 13. Otherwise Ewels takes over from Attwood on the bench (knee problems)

JJ probably a better defender which may make a difference with the Fijians (assuming they ever get the ball and some space at the same time). JJ is a wonderful player but Daly had about as good a full debut as we could ever hope for.

Cyril send them back to to their clubs then. I thought Jones said he didn't want to hand out caps like confetti.

No point giving it to those who already have enough caps. Do you seriously think England are in a position where we don't need to develop strength in depth?

Gametime for fringe players is exactly what games like Fiji are for.

Why start them vs  tougher opposition like SA if they aren't up to match fitness?

Well obviously Hartley. He's number one in Jones' eyes. Undroppable, untouchable. A deity.

Brown. Billy. Youngs. Guess you could say Farrell too.

Rugby is about the squad, not just the first XV. Sometimes I feel like some fans forget that.

I am more disappointed in Gustard and Borthwick if they agree in Jones' selections. They should know the importance of rotation and having a strong squad.

Ultimately it's all about learning about mistakes from the previous regime.

Maybe it's better for England to give gametime to Haley than Goode at 15 but looking at more 15 options than just Brown is important - regardless of who you rate out of Haley or Goode.

Most players has a natural desire to play every game, they themselves IMO do not understand that they need rest.  It is up to the coaches and management to look after the players.


Londontiger you remind me of one of my oldest friends who I've fallen out with and not patched things up with. Obviously very intelligent but also have an air of superiority. Always looking down on me without outright saying it. I on the other hand obviously run off my mouth too much. I guess me and him couldn't patch things up because he never saw my point of view. Off topic but an interesting observation. I respected him but he never did for me. I see similarities.

My advice to you would be just once in a while, tell someone they are right.

Would have liked to see Daly start every match to get some continuity and a proper chance to impress, that's the disappointment. Had a pretty good debut but you'd imaggine he'll be bench material for a while yet.

beshocked wrote:...Gametime for fringe players is exactly what games like Fiji are for.

I agree with that. Where I tend to disagree with you, is that there aren't enough fringe games in a World Cup cycle to give others playing, so you have to look to do so in more competitive matches too.

no 7 & 1/2 at least Daly started vs SA. Joseph starting vs Fiji makes sense.

Rugby fan fair enough, as you know I see the warm up games as good games too. Even I know it can be a tough balancing act between winning and development, building momentum etc but I think sometimes long term benefit is sacrificed for short term gains.

Though saying that I am no fan of Lancaster obviously but by trying out new players, on purpose/ by accident has put us in a better position now.

Unfortunately I felt at times, Lancaster got the balance wrong. It's not easy but this is what the coaches are getting paid lots of £££ for.

Let's be honest the England job is a great one. Nice pay, a huge player pool, oodles of resources. It's not really surprising Jones jumped at the chance is it?

Of course with this comes greater expectations.

Contrast this to Fiji, England are very lucky.

It's like David vs Goliath.

If you were choosing either to play on your rugby team who would you rather have?

Due to Joseph being completely fine and settled 1st choice yes it does go with what Jones has said about not handing out caps easily. He'll have to impress from the bench and be seen to be in better form in an England shirt.

no 7 & 1/2 and yet certain players will be picked regardless of match fitness or form....

Billy might not even be fully fit yet Jones seems primed to pick him.

Jones will hand out caps easily to some players but others will have a very hard task of getting a cap.

Why should Joseph miss out and not other players? Why give Daly a run and not other deserving players?

It seems odd IMO to reward good form for one player but ignore the form of others.

As he's said he won't hand out caps like confetti. Like I said would have preferred Daly to get a little more of a chance but Jones looks like he's sticking to what he said for once. Will be interesting to see how this back row goes. Looks a great pack for carrying and Fiji's scrum looked woeful on Friday in terrible conditions.

He say he won't hand out caps like confetti though that's what I expect he'll do....

Look at this way do you think any player like Roko,Hughes,Goode,George,Sinckler,Marler etc would be undeserving? Would you say their caps would be like handing out confetti. I certainly wouldn't.

Giving a player a cap whose out of form/not fully match fit I think is more like handing out caps like confetti.

That's how I see it. Especially to players who need the game time less.

It doesn't matter to me if Billy Vunipola wants to play. I would have given him the week off.

Eddie said Daly was picked for SA because he was a little sharper in training.....whos to say that Joseph isn't sharper this week.
Team isn't selected yet so Daly could still start with JJ on the bench.

Harrison looks set to be involved and may well start infront of Hughs (who may also still come off the bench).
Ewels also likely to be bench spot in place of Attwood - I am sure that he will do OK on the physical side (managed well against SA A).
Care could be rotated with Youngs - no problem there.

Front row may also be similar, the benches could come on sooner and get more gametime - but you could equally start last weeks bench and rest Mako, Hartley, Cole - saving them for bench impact if needed. Giving Marler-George-Sinks a start.

Key is really what EJ wants to do at 10-12 - a shake up there will allow further changes in the back line. Keep it the same and there will be minimal changes.

Jones meant he has a preferred set of players and won't make a host of changes. He's lied before so we'll see.

Need to see more of Ewels to make my mind up so looking forward to that along with Hughes and Vunipola setting off like steam trains!

Fiji have plenty of first choice players missing so you could could put out the Saxons second team and still win by 2 scores.