Why haven't any Olympic stars turned pro?

Normally, post Olympics, there are rumours galore as to what British and Irish stars will do next. Generally, the top GB amateurs turn pro, (I believe only Bradley Saunders stayed as an amateur post Beijing) whereas Irish stars stay amateur, Darren Sutherland, God rest his soul, the only one from 2008 turning professional. However this year the rumour mill has ground to a halt.

John Joe Nevin is so far the only Irishman to cross over to the pro ranks. Katie Taylor has mentioned turning, while Paddy Barnes, Michael Conlan, Adam Nolan and Darren O'Neill have stated they will remain amateur.

From team GB, Anthony Ogogo looks certain to cross, Matchroom being the most likely destination. Fred Evans is also thought to be seriously considering the move. Apart from that, there hasn't been any other mentions of going into the paid ranks. Josh Taylor will stay amateur for the 2014 Commonwealth games in Glasgow. Selby has stated he will remain amateur as long as he is wanted. Joshua has also strongly hinted at staying, likewise Stalker. I haven't read or heard anything about Luke Campbell's next step either. Why is this period different to previous ones?

One possible explanation is that England may be about to start a World Series of Boxing franchise. For anyone who isn't aware of the WSB, it is a team event where boxer's compete in 5x3 minute rounds without a vest or headguard over five weight categories (Bantam, Light, Middle, Light Heavy and Heavy). You represent a Nation or City, initially in a group stage, and the wins and losses of individual contests are tallied, with the top performing Nations/Cities advancing to the finals. It then becomes a knockout tournament. The difference from regular amateur boxing is that the boxers are paid for bouts and given bonuses for wins. This will obviously supplement the grants that boxers are given from their individual nations. For boxers from Nations with no Franchise, they make themselves eligible for the draft, where Franchises select boxers to beef up certain areas of their team. The problem for any London/England franchise is that the draft has already taken place, so they would have to do with their own National boxers or select from what's left of the eligible fighters. Ireland had seven boxers selected in the draft, the most for of any nation.

I watched quite a bit of last season. Whereas a lot of professional cards have one decent headline bout, but an undercard filled with chaff and mismatches, I found most WSB cards to be highly competitive with boxers evenly matched, there were more knock-outs than regular amateur boxing and the team aspect made it all a bit more exciting. Most of the participants are some of the World's top amateurs, all generally have or still represent their Nations in top tournaments.

If there was to be a franchise opened here, would anyone watch it, or even attend the bouts themselves? Would the five round format turn you off? Would the possibility of watching some of the World's best amateurs without vests and headguards appeal? I for one would love it.

It would certainly appeal to me, 6oldenbhoy, not least because you will always see the best taking on the best.

You're much more knowledgeable than me on the subject, but the impression I've had through listening to some interviews is that top-quality amateur boxers can actually make a fairly comfortable living these days, in a way that they certainly couldn't only a few years ago. There will always be those fighters (and Darren Sutherland would have been one) who are better suited to the pro game, but equally, men like Fred Evans and Luke Campbell seem to me to be ideally fitted for the amateur game.

Tough old world, the pros, and if you don't actually have to do it, perhaps the incentive is no longer there.

Because they've good sensible well-adjusted heads on their shoulders! Ogogo is the obvious one for me as he has what could be an aesthetically pleasing style and has probably achieved his limit as an amateur.

You can make a comfortable living in the amateurs, but not enough to set you up for life. I'm not to sure what the top GB stars get paid, but Paddy Barnes from Ireland was given a grant of 40,000 Euros per year. A great salary by most people's standards but that is only in place at best until he is 34. That funding was going to be cut if he did not win a medal, hence his opening ceremony stunt of holding a placard saying "Open for sponsors". Also, if a young rising star displaces him the Ireland International team then that would be cut upon his next review. Anthony Ogogo says he will probably turn pro as he is paid a meagre salary (which I doubt).

Agree with Campbell and Evans being seemingly more suited to the amateur game. Campbell is so tall at 56kg, you have got to wonder how well he would take a solid shot. I've seen Evans being violently KO'd at last year's World Champs, and I'm unsure as to how hard he hits.

I've just moved to England, only an hour or so on the train from London so I would head down as often as I could. Though my allegiances would lie with the team with the most Irish fighters.

The atmosphere was incredible at the Olympics, one that could be replicated, albeit on a smaller scale, with the nationalistic edge this format has.

You have to wonder as well what kind of money is on the table for the amateurs switching over this time round. At the last Olympics there were a couple of three promoters with Sky contracts, Setanta were still kicking around and think even ITV were on the scene. Suspect this meant there were a couple of bids for their services last time round which obviously would drive up the money on the table.

Very different picture this time round. Only Hearn has a sky deal, Warren has boxnation but is cancelling shows left right and centre so even if the channel is not on its arse you have to think things will be tight for him at the minute, and the likes of Hobson, Maloney and Hatton are all on the outs TV wise which will definitely impact on the kind of offers they can make. Have to think a young heavyweight like Joshua would still secure decent offers but the money on the table for the others may not be that great.

Would also be interesting to know if the promoters are getting wary of spending on Olympians because none of those who were at Beijing have exactly set the pro game alight just yet and Jeffries is already retired (albeit in unfortunate circumstances)

i think the quality of boxing wasnt great in the olympics, so maybe staying amatuer for a few years would be the best idea for most of team GB

Yeah Rowley I see what you mean, however Matchroom have signed at least four Team GB boxers who hadn't qualified for the Olympics in the last year, Cardle, Ward, Yafai and Weaver are the ones that I know. All decent prospects but are they more likely to get viewers than say a Joshua or even a Luke Campbell. No idea how much they signed for, but it must have been enough for them to give up their contracts with GB. I wouldn't say any of them look like outstanding pro prospects either.

Maybe Khan with his new company and links to Golden Boy will snap a few more up, possibly put them on American cards on occasion. Maybe even Hennessy to beef up his Channel 5 cards. But these guys are riding the crest of the wave at the moment. Any popularity they have is only going to decrease. Best time to snap them up.

I agree 6B, but you do wonder if the olympians are aware of the offers the likes of Degale and Price received last time round and are thus far hanging around waiting for similar amounts, if this is the case my thoughts are they could be waiting some time in the current climate.

Posibly the promoters arent actually all that sold on the them. Its a big risk offering an unproven pro, even a gold medalists, big money to sign up as you could be waiting a long time to see a return on that if any. Not to mention the chance they ditch you after their formative years int he pro ranks a la Khan or De Gale. I remember Warren saying he wasnt prepared to offer the kind of money he offered the last crop. When you look at the problems Warren has had in the past with Khan (left to GBP), De Gale (contract dispute), Gavin (personal problems) and even Saunders (injury) and what happened to Tony Jeffries or worse with Sutherland its quite a big gamble.

WSB champions automatically Qualify for the Olympics.

It needs to be pointed out that, 50 WSB boxers qualified for the 2012 Games and there wasn’t one Olympic gold medal between them. Ok the format is new and each countries governing body may have been sceptical about entering their Olympic hopefuls therefore refrained from doing so?

Amateur boxers are either amateur or professional, and the distinction is so great that, amateurs aren’t allowed to train in the same club as Pro’s. This begs the question, where are they supposed to go for the extra conditioning? Or, for tactics more suited to the longer duration? Is the ruling going to change, would amateurs be allowed to train with Pros?


Since Olympic boxing became 3x3 the boxers have changed tactics to reflect the greater endurance required for the longer rounds, and this has ultimately resulted in slower paced matches. With The WSB League, boxers fight 5 x 3min in the prelims, and 7 x 3min in the final. I think the enhanced conditioning, brought about by training for these longer bouts, could add to the entertainment value of Olympic boxing; it would allow a more frenetic pace to be set over the 3 rounds. However, WSB uses the same 10 point must system as the pro game. The last decade of Amateur Boxing has taught lads to fight specifically to the computer scoring system. And now they must learn to fight to the professional scoring system also, meaning work rate, aggression and knock downs will be scored. This will cause confusion in the Olympics. Lads may be caught in two minds, not knowing which style to fight to, WSB or traditional?

Owing to the huge differences between WSB rules and Amateur Boxing Rules I find it difficult to see how WSB can add anything to an amateur’s game other than conditioning. However, if WSB takes off, then it will raise the profile of the lads, but even if it didn’t it would still supplement their income.


The WSB is basically Pro boxing over 5 or 7 rounds, but for amateur boxers. It acts as an intermediary allowing for a comfortable transition into the pro game, and the invaluable experience the WSB provides will allow boxers to decide whether they are suited to the paid ranks (though the results of the league will be the final arbiter to that decision). Those suited turn Pro, those that don't, go to the next olympics with the tag...."he'd never have made it as a pro, good amateur though".

The cynic in me sees it as no more than a pugilistic cattle market, where promoters assess their potential goods and bid for them.

The fan in me.... can’t wait!

Its a waiting game. I dont think many amateurs move to the pro game immediately. Its ussually a few months to get the best deal sorted. Regardless of what they say in public, the better ones will go pro before the end of the year. Joshua will go pro as he will be offerred silly money being the gold medalist.

I have high hopes for Fred Evans. I see his style being well suited for the pro game. Agogo will turn pro but will be euro level at best.

6oldenbhoy wrote:
If there was to be a franchise opened here, would anyone watch it, or even attend the bouts themselves? Would the five round format turn you off? Would the possibility of watching some of the World's best amateurs without vests and headguards appeal? I for one would love it.

Has anyone any thoughts on 6oldenbhoy's questions?

Im not really as up to speed with the amateur game or watch it as much. However the WSB appears to a professional system thats open to amateurs only? Seems to be muddying the waters between pro and amateur. I would give it a chance but think there is a danger it falls in between the pro and the amateur game without really satisfying either.

Would really be excited to see Joshua go pro, I wasn't all too sold on Ogogo to be honest, but he sells Sub of the days well enough.

My opinion of the WSB is that it is a temporary arrangement until AIBA roll out the APB format at the end of next year. AIBA probably got sick and tired of losing it's top stars to the professional game. I also assume that they think they stand to make a lot of money if the can convince their top stars to stay under their umbrella, fight as a "professional" but still retain their amateur status at the Olympics. If most of the top stars sign to APB, theoretically it will weaken the pro game we have now. Basically, stop them going pro now by signing to a WSB team, fight for money and then join the APB program when it is up and running.

Even if it is not temporary, it will provide a stepping stone between APB and regular amateur boxing for young amateurs, given them exposure to longer distance fights before they step up fully to APB.

The problem with APB is that I have no idea how it will work. Will fights be twelve rounds? Will there be World Champions? Again, theoretically if there are to be World Champions then will two people in their first bout fight for the title? Will there be tournaments to decide Champions? AIBA have asked all member federations to re-brand to drop the word 'amateur' from their federation's titles. I'm not sure how that will go down with certain federations, there is a lot of history that comes with those names. AIBA want federations to amend any laws and constitutions so they will support the launch of WSB.

Agree with almost everything you say, Mackem however to pick up on your point that there was no Olympic Champions in last seasons tournament, only three of the twelve participating nations produced an Olympic Champion, Zou from China, that Russian chap with the unspellable name and Sapiyev from Kazakhstan. Not every boxer will want to enter APB, Zou is a superstar in China, he probably doesn't need the money. If a Ukrainian and a British team enter, as AIBA hope, that there will be quite a few Olympic Champions in it. There were quite a couple of Silver as well as former World Champions, so a good standard nonetheless.

Azania, you say that Freddie Evans will make a good pro, however he was violently knocked out by a Lithuanian at the Worlds. You tar David Price with the chinny brush for being on unsteady legs when Cammarelle stopped him, so does the same apply to Evans? Here's the link, watch from about 6:40.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7qHqbxc0j5A

radio silence from 606v2's resident WUM.....

Sorry to bump this, but word has it that John Joe Nevin is going to renege on his agreement to go pro with Amir Khan and will instead remain amateur for the next four years. He's has been offered 60,000 Euro a year by the Irish sporting council as well as supplementing that with earnings from the WSB and APB. I doubt Khan will be happy, if he does so that slashes his stable by 50%.

6oldenbhoy wrote:Sorry to bump this, but word has it that John Joe Nevin is going to renege on his agreement to go pro with Amir Khan and will instead remain amateur for the next four years. He's has been offered 60,000 Euro a year by the Irish sporting council as well as supplementing that with earnings from the WSB and APB. I doubt Khan will be happy, if he does so that slashes his stable by 50%.

Its a calculated risk. He probably doubts if he can cut it big time in the pro game. He could walk away with £100k per year which is very good for a kid. Heck for anyone.

How much do the get in the WSB?

It's estimated he received around 70K in Euros for his participation in two seasons. The second season he wasn't involved that much due to the Olympic buildup, only had a couple of bouts, so that probably doesn't reflect his true earning value.

It seems like the margins between pro and amateur are becoming less defined now. I think the head protectors will be gone again for the next Olympics and possible changes on the scoring system. Then with the financial investment in athletes from the State aswell as pseudo amateur competitions like the WSB which offer further earnings like most things in the Olympics its not really amateur per se anymore. I think Katie Taylor opted to stay amateur despite significant offers from promoters in the pro game. I wonder how much she was offered a year to stay amateur as I would guess the Irish would be keen on retaining her for the next Olympics.

Yeah, going back to the ten point must system next year and the headguards are going. AIBA are rebranding everything, amateur boxing as we know now will be known as 'Olympic Boxing'.

Katie would be on more than any other person in the High Performance Unit. She is also sponsored by Sky Sports which must add a bit to her income. Being signed to the amateur contract also means you have free access to physios and psychologists, benefits that would come out of your own pocket if you turn pro. IABA also pay for your accomodation and meals for forty weeks a year as well as travel to all tournaments, so overheads would be a lot smaller. They also used to help with your education, or used to anyway, so it's a great gig if you can get it.

I wonder if the judges will be as corrupt. Perhaps they should have pro judges.....not that they're much better.

I dont really think the 10 point system works that well in 3 rounders. I would prefer a system that rewarded the decisiveness of how a round is won for fights that are three rounds.

I agree, in my opinion it will place to much emphasis on aggression, less so on the fundamental skills of the boxer.

How would you like to see it scored, Manos? I always liked the button pressing scoring system. It was flawed, but any sport that relies on human based scoring is going to be subjective. Rewarded quality rather than quantity.

6oldenbhoy wrote:I agree, in my opinion it will place to much emphasis on aggression, less so on the fundamental skills of the boxer.

How would you like to see it scored, Manos? I always liked the button pressing scoring system. It was flawed, but any sport that relies on human based scoring is going to be subjective. Rewarded quality rather than quantity.

I thought the button pressing system brough its own set of problems but what I wouldnt mind experimenting with is a system that maybe differentiates between a round won clearly and a round won narrowly. In boxing many rounds can be tight with one fighter shading it. This has the equivalent value of a round won by a clear margin. Over 12 or 1 rounds the variance is greater so its not as big a problem but over three rounds I think it can be. For example the first two rounds in a contest are nip tuck but the last round is won decisively by fighter x. But fighter y is deemed to have edged the first two rounds and progresses. It can be quite unreflective of a contest over three rounds.

Maybe awarding 1 point for a tied round, 2 points for a round won narrowly and 3 points for a round won clearly. Or perhaps even departing from a round by round scoring system for three round fights and judging it as who won the contest overall.