Which is the best shot?

I have found 5 fantastic shots on you-tube, and five jaw-dropping rallies all of which I think are awesome.

Which ones do you think are the best?

BEST SHOTS:
1/ Nadal hot dog+ lob vs Djokovic Madrid 2011 F
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hppngMvcMi0


2/ Federer hot-dog vs Djoko USO 2009 SF
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=boL4ce9Y-Ic


3/ Murray round the net vs Cilic AO SF 2010
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mb8yMnikMmk


4/ Djokovic return ace vs Federer, USO 2011 SF
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yWci2eSsYcQ


5/ Nadal banana shot vs Verdasco AO 2009 SF
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IuXsWt53cHs


BEST RALLIES:
1/ Nadal vs Federer https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EQ7kyUknYjM

2/ Hewitt vs Federer https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9tZhQi8aDcg

3/ Federer vs Lopez https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ETpvrKfmpw4

4/ Nadal vs Djokovic https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QSX_QCKIl-s

5/ Connors vs Haarhuis https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9AuBGmLw1ZY

What do you think?

I always liked this one

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=xc1RCqidtTg

bogbrush wrote:I always liked this one

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=xc1RCqidtTg

Yes, that's a really good shot.

Which was your non-Federer favourite out of my links?

2 is the best.

Henman Bill wrote:2 is the best.

Personally I felt number 1 was very similar.
Rafa had to lob Djokovic perfectly, if it was too low Djokovic would have smashed it, too high it would have floated over the base-line.
The placement on both shots (1 and 2) were perfect.
Number 4 was arguably at the most crucial shot, importance wise.

5 & 2, 4, 3, 1

2 needs no explanation. 5 I think sums up what's appealing about Rafa and makes me want to like him as a player. 4 was a lucky shot but I admire Novak for having the guts for going for it and it changed the match and probably won the tournament for him.

break_in_the_fifth wrote:5 & 2, 4, 3, 1

2 needs no explanation. 5 I think sums up what's appealing about Rafa and makes me want to like him as a player. 4 was a lucky shot but I admire Novak for having the guts for going for it and it changed the match and probably won the tournament for him.

I'd say I agree with that analysis, except for having 1 last.
Did you see the dip!! From a hotdog shot as well, the guy wasn't even looking and the ball dipped perfectly onto the line!

I marginally prefer it to 2, but that's probably the Nadal fan speaking in me lol

I would have: 1,5,2,3,4

Edit: I am a biased Nadal fan, as you can see

No probs lol this stuff is open to interpretation.

Well there is no question which was the biggest shot and by far the most significant individual shot we have had in the sport. Any time you send the maestro into a belligerent news conference on the way out of the USO, on the strength of one herculliean swing, well you have to give it special consideration. If it is the most significant shot well I believe only one of those shots has been produced on Match point. Always easier to pull of a great shot when it isn't match point.

Either way all those are quality I like fed's tweener myself in terms of pure skill but that shot didn't come at such a significant time. Only one shot can be called "the shot" and I think we all know which one I am talking about. But in terms of highlight real quality alone Fed's shot is the most audacious and aesthetically pleasing. But Novak's is by far the shot of the bunch in terms of significance.

It Must Be Love wrote:

bogbrush wrote:I always liked this one

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=xc1RCqidtTg

Yes, that's a really good shot.

Which was your non-Federer favourite out of my links?

Probably 5, coming after a tough rally and off a good shot itself. It also has a zero luck factor, which gives it a big plus IMO. Number 6* also.

6* = my contribution

bogbrush wrote:

It Must Be Love wrote:

bogbrush wrote:I always liked this one

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=xc1RCqidtTg

Yes, that's a really good shot.

Which was your non-Federer favourite out of my links?

Probably 5, coming after a tough rally and off a good shot itself. It also has a zero luck factor, which gives it a big plus IMO.

The ball curved like mad! Only Rafa can generate that spin!

Yes I liked your number 6* option too, Federer genius slice!

socal1976 wrote:Well there is no question which was the biggest shot and by far the most significant individual shot we have had in the sport. Any time you send the maestro into a belligerent news conference on the way out of the USO, on the strength of one herculliean swing, well you have to give it special consideration. If it is the most significant shot well I believe only one of those shots has been produced on Match point. Always easier to pull of a great shot when it isn't match point.

Either way all those are quality I like fed's tweener myself in terms of pure skill but that shot didn't come at such a significant time. Only one shot can be called "the shot" and I think we all know which one I am talking about. But in terms of highlight real quality alone Fed's shot is the most audacious and aesthetically pleasing. But Novak's is by far the shot of the bunch in terms of significance.

Yes Djokos shot is the most important, situation wise, but was it the most difficult shot to pull off?

socal1976 wrote: Only one shot can be called "the shot"

This is what clinches number 4 for me.

In isolation perhaps it is not the best, at least in terms of "spectacular". But this is a shot that I don't think can be divorced from its setting. In a moment, the course of a match and a tournament was turned.

The reaction also has to be taken into account. Djokovic's appeal to the crowd following it is just as much a part of the sequence as the shot itself. He appealed to the crowd... and won them! (Ooh, I'm going all misty-eyed just thinking about it! Incidentally, this is an enjoyable article on it): http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/6961013/shot-confrontation

I also like it as it is a shot that is typical of the player - an amazing service return. It's for this reason I also really like number 5. Only Rafa could have hit that.

And finally, lest I ramble too much, I've always felt there has been a touch of the double standard in the judgement of The Shot. It is often held to be a player getting "lucky". Yet I don't hear the same judgement about Fed's shot in the 2009 USO Semi. Yes, I know Fed has hit that shot on more than one occasion but I could equally point out the number of service return winners Novak has hit. It's not a shot that we should be surprised at Novak making.

With 1 Nadal just hits the ball and estimates correctly without hitting it any special way, a less than 1 in 2 shot though, I guess. Novak doesn't even try to go for it though you feel if he really wanted to he could have got it. His reaction is just like 'fair enough'. With Fed's shot, it would have been good even if he wasn't facing away from the net and it has topspin on it.

It's not that surprising that Novak made the shot but he swung at it in an all or nothing manner that he doesn't usually do when he hits those kinds of winners.

No 5...Vintage Rafa

McEnroe's shot here, on the point beginning at 2:42
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/tennis/wimbledon/8106183.stm

It Must Be Love wrote:

socal1976 wrote:Well there is no question which was the biggest shot and by far the most significant individual shot we have had in the sport. Any time you send the maestro into a belligerent news conference on the way out of the USO, on the strength of one herculliean swing, well you have to give it special consideration. If it is the most significant shot well I believe only one of those shots has been produced on Match point. Always easier to pull of a great shot when it isn't match point.

Either way all those are quality I like fed's tweener myself in terms of pure skill but that shot didn't come at such a significant time. Only one shot can be called "the shot" and I think we all know which one I am talking about. But in terms of highlight real quality alone Fed's shot is the most audacious and aesthetically pleasing. But Novak's is by far the shot of the bunch in terms of significance.

Yes Djokos shot is the most important, situation wise, but was it the most difficult shot to pull off?

Hell yeah it is difficult to pull off he guessed right on the serve because on the wide serve everyone tries to go out the forehand of Djokovic on the deuce court so before the ball was even hit Novak had to have a read on where Roger was going to hit that first serve, and he still had to take a fed slice serve wide, cut it off and blast it for a winner right inside the line.

Have to agree with Murdoch that is a great post. That shot will be more remembered and significant than all the others ones posted. It turned a slam around completely and it can not be divorced from the setting and its impact.

And of course there is a double standard Murdoch vis a vis fed and Djoko. If fed does something it is great, Novak's accomplishments are denigrated and chalked up to luck. As Henman Bill stated it is amazing how lucky Djokovic gets on match point over and over again hitting lines. S

Same double standard rears its ugly head when talking about the RG 2012 final. We had a flood of people calling it much more one sided than the scoreline and that Novak obviously won the 8 straight games because the rain got so bad the balls wouldn't kick up on Rafa's spin. But Rafa was won the first two sets in the rain, when he wins in the rain it is because he is a legend, when Novak wins a set in the rain it is because he is lucky it is raining. Again I have to mention Henman Bill who destroyed this denigrating myth on this website for stating that he was actually at the 2012 final when they stopped it and it wasn't raining any harder than before when Nadal was winning. And I believe his exact words were "I didn't even have an umbrella and hardly got wet".

So in the future remember Murdoch when Djoko wins in the rain it is because he is lucky it is raining, when Nadal wins in the rain it is because he is great.

may not be everyones favourites but these two always make me smile
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W5no258uZ5E&feature=related
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nugM-5YJeLs

IMBL its difficult to beat Fed's mastery and skill, Nadal can come up with Hot Dog or Tweener but how many times he tried it and how effective it has been compared to Fed?

Even I can produce a Tweener by fluke may be after million attempts but that won't put me on par with Federer.

Federer's Tweeners are special so is his Lob smash, Nadal has played better running forehands than this tweener, Nadal's running forehand may be the best in the game and it would have been appropriate had that shot be compared with Fed's best than these two shots.

To add more Fed has played around the post shot in his career as well and that too from the backhand wing, which I see as more complicated shot than Forehand around the post.

Here is the link

https://youtu.be/0qevhV0jxNg

What about these two burning Forehands from Gonzalez

https://youtu.be/0E40rfx3rYc

Nobody stands a chance on this shot.

Gonzo came back several times in this match first from set down then again from 5-3 down in 3rd set to close his first ever win over Federer. These two bombs in my certainly played its part.

IC, good links

break_in_the_fifth wrote:With 1 Nadal just hits the ball and estimates correctly without hitting it any special way, a less than 1 in 2 shot though, I guess. Novak doesn't even try to go for it though you feel if he really wanted to he could have got it. His reaction is just like 'fair enough'. With Fed's shot, it would have been good even if he wasn't facing away from the net and it has topspin on it.

It's not that surprising that Novak made the shot but he swung at it in an all or nothing manner that he doesn't usually do when he hits those kinds of winners.

Apologies I don't agree with that at all.
Both hotdogs were sensational, but with Rafa's one he had to not only play a hotdog but also had to lob Djokovic perfectly. Too much on it and it would drift long, if it had too little Djokovic would smash it. Federer's hotdog was sensational as well, a good passing shot but I don't think the margins were as high risk.

i loveeee this shot here against novak in the 200aussie semi.
absolute genius!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WgUx_LCrKKI
0.43.
'roger did not have an angle so he made one up!'

LuvSports! wrote:i loveeee this shot here against novak in the 200aussie semi.
absolute genius!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WgUx_LCrKKI
0.43.
'roger did not have an angle so he made one up!'

That's a brilliant BH DTL from Roger.
However I think the BH DTL passing shot he hit championship point down against Nadal W2008 final was even better.

socal1976 wrote:
But Rafa was won the first two sets in the rain, when he wins in the rain it is because he is a legend, when Novak wins a set in the rain it is because he is lucky it is raining.

Well I'm a Nadal fan myself, and I didn't say that at all. Djokovic won those 8 games because he played better for those games (irrelevant of the conditions).
In-fact if not anything Nadal was lucky the rain came down even harder so they had to leave, as Djokovic had the momentum at that time. Overall though on the basis of the play of both men, I think a close 4 set match was around right.

OK, now for a bit of controversy time. It's analysis on the play of the 'Nadalovic' tripoly.
I believe that Federer and Nadal play more 'wow' shots than Djokovic. Federer normally comes up with sensational awesome shots on the attack (and on the defence as well- but due to his aggressive style of play he is attacking for the majority), while Nadal comes up with some amazing 'wow' shots on the defence.
Djokovic meanwhile, I don't think he comes up with as many jaw-dropping shots. He is very steady no doubt, and has an incredible return of serve which always bounces with depth and puts him in a strong position in the point. Both his groundstrokes are 'very consistent, no one can doubt that.

But I think the reason he does not have as many fans as Federer and Nadal (you can check the facebook stats- Fedal both have more than 10 million and I believe Federer is marginally ahead by 1%), is to do with the fact he doesn't come up with these 'wow' shots. As he plays for longer he'll pick up more fans, but I don't think he'll reach the levels of Federer and Nadal even after they have retired.

For example this is just the highlights of some shots from Nadal against Ancic in just one match:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xvJ2AhXLU6g&feature=related

I know I included Djokovic's 'shot' at number 4, but I feel that was more impressive due to the importance of the situation rather than the eye-popping amazingness of the specific shot in isolation.

Apologies for the lack of variety but here are a few of Fed's finest for me:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Hp-EArV6s8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QlcLo_RL7ms&feature=plcp
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CCmnFj8eaKM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lcVHvh55bP0 (0:37)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3IWsgkAJpu0

But this is the greatest rally I have ever seen:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EQ7kyUknYjM

As for the best of the list, I'd go:
2
1
5
3
4

Fed's hot dog is better for me as he has less time than Rafa, more pressure and I think it is slightly more aesthetically pleasing.
But I don't think that's even Federer's best shot, likewise Rafa.

This is my favourite rally - starts at 1:01
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9AuBGmLw1ZY&feature=related

Couldn't resist
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gtuf12Uw1dk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y2qCtuKzK5I

Thanks Julius and thelosty, good links

It Must Be Love wrote:

socal1976 wrote:
But Rafa was won the first two sets in the rain, when he wins in the rain it is because he is a legend, when Novak wins a set in the rain it is because he is lucky it is raining.

Well I'm a Nadal fan myself, and I didn't say that at all. Djokovic won those 8 games because he played better for those games (irrelevant of the conditions).
In-fact if not anything Nadal was lucky the rain came down even harder so they had to leave, as Djokovic had the momentum at that time. Overall though on the basis of the play of both men, I think a close 4 set match was around right.

No that wasn't you I was thinking of BB and lydian made these arguments, you actually were more balanced as a true Nadal fan. But I just remember all the nonsense from the aftermath of that match. Djokovic was flattered by the score it was actually so lucky for him that it was raining and the ball didn't kick up. And then the same people are trying to cram down my throat the idea that Nadal's routine wins against fed in 4 sets on clay are nailbitting and close affairs when I would posit that AO 2012 was at least as close if not closer than AO 2011 final.

To me it is just funny that they were exposed in their anti-djoko bias when Henman Bill basically shot them out of the water by stating that he was at the final, and was surprised they stopped it when they did because in his words: "I didn't have an umbrella and I hardly got wet". That wasn't the line of nonsense being sold to us by BB. He was saying that the rain got out of control and torrential and that was why djoko won the set and those 8 games in a row. The man has exposed his bias and his lack of ability to accurately portray events. Where the hell did he get his information that the rain got more severe when Djoko was winning?

It Must Be Love wrote:OK, now for a bit of controversy time. It's analysis on the play of the 'Nadalovic' tripoly.
I believe that Federer and Nadal play more 'wow' shots than Djokovic. Federer normally comes up with sensational awesome shots on the attack (and on the defence as well- but due to his aggressive style of play he is attacking for the majority), while Nadal comes up with some amazing 'wow' shots on the defence.
Djokovic meanwhile, I don't think he comes up with as many jaw-dropping shots. He is very steady no doubt, and has an incredible return of serve which always bounces with depth and puts him in a strong position in the point. Both his groundstrokes are 'very consistent, no one can doubt that.

But I think the reason he does not have as many fans as Federer and Nadal (you can check the facebook stats- Fedal both have more than 10 million and I believe Federer is marginally ahead by 1%), is to do with the fact he doesn't come up with these 'wow' shots. As he plays for longer he'll pick up more fans, but I don't think he'll reach the levels of Federer and Nadal even after they have retired.

For example this is just the highlights of some shots from Nadal against Ancic in just one match:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xvJ2AhXLU6g&feature=related

I know I included Djokovic's 'shot' at number 4, but I feel that was more impressive due to the importance of the situation rather than the eye-popping amazingness of the specific shot in isolation.

No the reason he has less fans is because he has won whole lot less if he wins slams and continues to be number 1 he will win a great deal more fans and close the gap. There is nothing innately charismatic in Nadal or fed's personality. And in terms of jaw dropping shots well that is subjective. Novak hits a lot more winners than Nadal, has more aggressive court positioning, hits more winners off the return, more winners from his backhand, and gets to the net more often. If this makes him less exciting to watch than Nadal well that is a matter for debate. I personally can't get excited by watching either fed or nadal play unless they are playing Novak. It is just a matter of viewing fatigue at this point. But I do not question that they are exciting and great players and very well may always be more popular and accomplished than Novak. That is fine, finishing second to those guys is no shame.

Federer's flying overhead against Roddick is just sick, as is the BH lob against Agassi. The link posted by CAS doesn't capture the impossibility of that shot.

This is a better link

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yidqJM1Xl4U

emancipator wrote:Federer's flying overhead against Roddick is just sick, as is the BH lob against Agassi. The link posted by CAS doesn't capture the impossibility of that shot.

This is a better link

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yidqJM1Xl4U

Fantastic shot!

OK then let's have a vote

Only rule is you can't vote for one which has your favourite player (so I can't vote for Nadal )

OK, I'll start us of.
I vote for number 3, Murray's sensational dig against Cilic!

and your real answer is?
dont be shy bud just say the nadal tweener you know ya wanna!

mines deffo 2!

LuvSports! wrote:and your real answer is?
dont be shy bud just say the nadal tweener you know ya wanna!

mines deffo 2!

Yes it was indeed

OK, have now also added 5 amazing rallies (thanks to thelost and Julius for some suggestions here):

1/ Nadal vs Federer https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EQ7kyUknYjM

2/ Hewitt vs Federer https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9tZhQi8aDcg

3/ Federer vs Lopez https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ETpvrKfmpw4

4/ Nadal vs Djokovic https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QSX_QCKIl-s

5/ Connors vs Haarhuis https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9AuBGmLw1ZY

Murray

JuliusHMarx wrote:Murray

Yes, I liked that shot too!

Which do you think is the best rally?

Connors, but I'm not allowed to vote for it

JuliusHMarx wrote:Connors, but I'm not allowed to vote for it

Yes you are

Was just looking back at some old clips of Bjorn Borg, thought this was a really good dig!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZL__OcegrbY

Hawkeye I know you are a Fedal fan, did you like this rally:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EQ7kyUknYjM

Number 4 is just so memorable and has to be my favourite. I just love the face on Djokovic as he prepares for the return of serve. He has that look of.............."oh yeah, something is about to go down" !!

Takes such balls to go for a shot like that in such a high pressure situation, his inner belief in these situations is unrivalled. Federer dismissed it as a slap shot but Djokovic returns serve so well time and again and hits so many winners off it. He consistently saves match points with incredible winners that you simply cannot dismiss this as pure luck. I have never seen a guy who returns the ball as well as this guy and i include Agassi. The ball strike off he makes off this return requires exceptional timing and skill.

This one shot was so instrumental and important, he would go on to win the tournament beating Fed and Nadal back to back and would finish with one of the greatest years in the history of tennis. Not only that it kept his dream of winning all four slams in a row alive. Such a shame he fell at the very last hurdle in the French, given what he had done to win the other 3.

Funny he ended up saving match points again against Tsonga in QF at the French open this year.

such a legend

When Djokovic goes match points down and has nothing to lose he tends to go for broke.
It tends to work quite often as you say, I think Djokovic relishes those circumstances.

However it can backfire- championship point down in the FO Djokovic limped to a double fault.
I don't think Federer or Nadal would ever double fault championship point down.

That is the only time i can recall it backfiring to be honest. His strike rate is certainly impressive