Heineken Cup Overall records - English,Scots,Irish and Welsh clubs.
+20
Pot Hale
The Great Aukster
Biltong
SecretFly
maestegmafia
Morgannwg
HERSH
Funkingfullback
ScarletSpiderman
AsLongAsBut100ofUs
Bathman_in_London
Hookisms and Hyperbole
broadlandboy
red_stag
RuggerRadge2611
Pete C (Kiwireddevil)
Dubbelyew L Overate
Jimpy
Kingshu
beshocked
24 posters
The v2 Forum :: Sport :: Rugby Union :: Club Rugby
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Heineken Cup Overall records - English,Scots,Irish and Welsh clubs.
Welsh sides
Scarlets
107 games
56 wins 1 draw 50 losses – 52% win ratio
Cardiff
104 games
53 wins, 4 draws, 47 losses -51% win ratio
Ospreys
59 games
29 wins, 3 draws, 27 losses – 49% win ratio
Dragons
42 games
9 wins, 33 losses -21% win ratio
Scottish sides
Edinburgh
93 games
34 wins, 3 draws, 56 losses – 36% win ratio
Glasgow
81 games
25 wins, 2 draws, 54 losses – 31% win ratio
Irish sides
Munster
124 games
87 wins, 1 draw, 36 losses – 70% win ratio
Leinster
117 games
79 wins,3 draws,35 losses – 67.5% win ratio
Ulster
105 games
49 wins, 3 draws, 53 losses -46% win ratio
Connacht
8 games
2 wins, 6 losses – 25% win ratio
English sides
Leicester
112 games
74 wins, 4 draws, 34 losses – 66% win ratio
Wasps
78 games
51 wins, 1 draw, 26 losses – 65% ratio
Saracens
41 games
25 wins, 16 losses – 61% win ratio
Saints
73 games
44 wins, 29 losses – 60% win ratio
Bath
72 games
43 wins, 1 draw, 28 losses -60% win ratio
Gloucester
58 games
35 wins, 1 draw, 22 losses – 60% win ratio
Sale
39 games
18 wins, 21 losses – 46%
London Irish
38 games
16 wins,1 draw,21 losses -42% win ratio
Harlequins
57 games
21 wins, 3 draws, 33 losses – 37% win ratio
Exeter
2 games
0 wins,2 losses – 0% win ratio
London Welsh and Worcester – N/A
Thoughts?
Scarlets
107 games
56 wins 1 draw 50 losses – 52% win ratio
Cardiff
104 games
53 wins, 4 draws, 47 losses -51% win ratio
Ospreys
59 games
29 wins, 3 draws, 27 losses – 49% win ratio
Dragons
42 games
9 wins, 33 losses -21% win ratio
Scottish sides
Edinburgh
93 games
34 wins, 3 draws, 56 losses – 36% win ratio
Glasgow
81 games
25 wins, 2 draws, 54 losses – 31% win ratio
Irish sides
Munster
124 games
87 wins, 1 draw, 36 losses – 70% win ratio
Leinster
117 games
79 wins,3 draws,35 losses – 67.5% win ratio
Ulster
105 games
49 wins, 3 draws, 53 losses -46% win ratio
Connacht
8 games
2 wins, 6 losses – 25% win ratio
English sides
Leicester
112 games
74 wins, 4 draws, 34 losses – 66% win ratio
Wasps
78 games
51 wins, 1 draw, 26 losses – 65% ratio
Saracens
41 games
25 wins, 16 losses – 61% win ratio
Saints
73 games
44 wins, 29 losses – 60% win ratio
Bath
72 games
43 wins, 1 draw, 28 losses -60% win ratio
Gloucester
58 games
35 wins, 1 draw, 22 losses – 60% win ratio
Sale
39 games
18 wins, 21 losses – 46%
London Irish
38 games
16 wins,1 draw,21 losses -42% win ratio
Harlequins
57 games
21 wins, 3 draws, 33 losses – 37% win ratio
Exeter
2 games
0 wins,2 losses – 0% win ratio
London Welsh and Worcester – N/A
Thoughts?
Last edited by beshocked on Fri 26 Oct 2012 - 11:04; edited 1 time in total
beshocked- Posts : 14849
Join date : 2011-03-08
Re: Heineken Cup Overall records - English,Scots,Irish and Welsh clubs.
No comments so far, sums up peoples opinions on this.
Kingshu- Posts : 4124
Join date : 2011-05-30
Re: Heineken Cup Overall records - English,Scots,Irish and Welsh clubs.
beshocked wrote:Welsh sides
Scarlets
107 games
56 wins 1 draw 50 losses – 52% win ratio
Cardiff
104 games
53 wins, 4 draws, 47 losses -51% win ratio
Ospreys
59 games
29 wins, 3 draws, 27 losses – 49% win ratio
Dragons
42 games
9 wins, 33 losses -21% win ratio
Scottish sides
Edinburgh
93 games
34 wins, 3 draws, 56 losses – 36% win ratio
Glasgow
81 games
25 wins, 2 draws, 54 losses – 31% win ratio
Irish sides
Munster
124 games
87 wins, 1 draw, 36 losses – 70% win ratio
Leinster
117 games
79 wins,3 draws,35 losses – 67.5% win ratio
Ulster
105 games
49 wins, 3 draws, 53 losses -46% win ratio
Connacht
8 games
2 wins, 6 losses – 25% win ratio
English sides
Leicester
112 games
74 wins, 4 draws, 34 losses – 66% win ratio
Wasps
78 games
51 wins, 1 draw, 26 losses – 65% ratio
Saracens
41 games
25 wins, 16 losses – 61% win ratio
Saints
73 games
44 wins, 29 losses – 60% win ratio
Bath
72 games
43 wins, 1 draw, 28 losses -60% win ratio
Gloucester
58 games
35 wins, 1 draw, 22 losses – 60% win ratio
Sale
39 games
18 wins, 21 losses – 46%
London Irish
38 games
16 wins,1 draw,21 losses -42% win ratio
Harlequins
57 games
21 wins, 3 draws, 33 losses – 37% win ratio
Exeter
2 games
0 wins,2 losses – 0% win ratio
London Welsh and Worcester – N/A
My findings are that English sides deserve their 6 places because they have 6 sides with 60% plus win ratio. Surprised by Quins to be honest.
Thoughts?
I think that for some reason, you're trying to perpetuate an argument on a subject that many find hugely immotive and that everybody has an opinion on.
We've all had some fun, but seriously, you're like a dog with a bone. Let it go...
Jimpy- Posts : 2823
Join date : 2012-08-02
Location : Not in a hot sandy place anymore
Re: Heineken Cup Overall records - English,Scots,Irish and Welsh clubs.
Awww kingshu that's so sweet of you to put down a comment just to make me feel better.
I just don't think too many Pro12 fans are pleased with the findings. Can't blame them to be honest.
I just don't think too many Pro12 fans are pleased with the findings. Can't blame them to be honest.
beshocked- Posts : 14849
Join date : 2011-03-08
Re: Heineken Cup Overall records - English,Scots,Irish and Welsh clubs.
Exeter are rubbish, throw them out immediately.
Dubbelyew L Overate- Posts : 1043
Join date : 2011-06-22
Re: Heineken Cup Overall records - English,Scots,Irish and Welsh clubs.
Jimpy wrote:beshocked wrote:Welsh sides
Scarlets
107 games
56 wins 1 draw 50 losses – 52% win ratio
Cardiff
104 games
53 wins, 4 draws, 47 losses -51% win ratio
Ospreys
59 games
29 wins, 3 draws, 27 losses – 49% win ratio
Dragons
42 games
9 wins, 33 losses -21% win ratio
Scottish sides
Edinburgh
93 games
34 wins, 3 draws, 56 losses – 36% win ratio
Glasgow
81 games
25 wins, 2 draws, 54 losses – 31% win ratio
Irish sides
Munster
124 games
87 wins, 1 draw, 36 losses – 70% win ratio
Leinster
117 games
79 wins,3 draws,35 losses – 67.5% win ratio
Ulster
105 games
49 wins, 3 draws, 53 losses -46% win ratio
Connacht
8 games
2 wins, 6 losses – 25% win ratio
English sides
Leicester
112 games
74 wins, 4 draws, 34 losses – 66% win ratio
Wasps
78 games
51 wins, 1 draw, 26 losses – 65% ratio
Saracens
41 games
25 wins, 16 losses – 61% win ratio
Saints
73 games
44 wins, 29 losses – 60% win ratio
Bath
72 games
43 wins, 1 draw, 28 losses -60% win ratio
Gloucester
58 games
35 wins, 1 draw, 22 losses – 60% win ratio
Sale
39 games
18 wins, 21 losses – 46%
London Irish
38 games
16 wins,1 draw,21 losses -42% win ratio
Harlequins
57 games
21 wins, 3 draws, 33 losses – 37% win ratio
Exeter
2 games
0 wins,2 losses – 0% win ratio
London Welsh and Worcester – N/A
My findings are that English sides deserve their 6 places because they have 6 sides with 60% plus win ratio. Surprised by Quins to be honest.
Thoughts?
I think that for some reason, you're trying to perpetuate an argument on a subject that many find hugely immotive and that everybody has an opinion on.
We've all had some fun, but seriously, you're like a dog with a bone. Let it go...
If you don't have a worthwhile opinion on the topic then don't post. I thought people might be interested by the stats clearly labelled out. It displaces a few myths and strengthens the English club's position.
Why don't you actually talk about rugby for once instead of arguing with me?
beshocked- Posts : 14849
Join date : 2011-03-08
Re: Heineken Cup Overall records - English,Scots,Irish and Welsh clubs.
Dubbelyew L Overate wrote:Exeter are rubbish, throw them out immediately.
You know I don't think Exeter are rubbish right? I am only putting out the stats as they are.
It's hard to gauge Exeter because they haven't been competing in European competitions for long.
Their first two games have been against Leinster and Clermont - arguably the two best sides in Europe.
beshocked- Posts : 14849
Join date : 2011-03-08
Re: Heineken Cup Overall records - English,Scots,Irish and Welsh clubs.
beshocked wrote:Jimpy wrote:beshocked wrote:Welsh sides
Scarlets
107 games
56 wins 1 draw 50 losses – 52% win ratio
Cardiff
104 games
53 wins, 4 draws, 47 losses -51% win ratio
Ospreys
59 games
29 wins, 3 draws, 27 losses – 49% win ratio
Dragons
42 games
9 wins, 33 losses -21% win ratio
Scottish sides
Edinburgh
93 games
34 wins, 3 draws, 56 losses – 36% win ratio
Glasgow
81 games
25 wins, 2 draws, 54 losses – 31% win ratio
Irish sides
Munster
124 games
87 wins, 1 draw, 36 losses – 70% win ratio
Leinster
117 games
79 wins,3 draws,35 losses – 67.5% win ratio
Ulster
105 games
49 wins, 3 draws, 53 losses -46% win ratio
Connacht
8 games
2 wins, 6 losses – 25% win ratio
English sides
Leicester
112 games
74 wins, 4 draws, 34 losses – 66% win ratio
Wasps
78 games
51 wins, 1 draw, 26 losses – 65% ratio
Saracens
41 games
25 wins, 16 losses – 61% win ratio
Saints
73 games
44 wins, 29 losses – 60% win ratio
Bath
72 games
43 wins, 1 draw, 28 losses -60% win ratio
Gloucester
58 games
35 wins, 1 draw, 22 losses – 60% win ratio
Sale
39 games
18 wins, 21 losses – 46%
London Irish
38 games
16 wins,1 draw,21 losses -42% win ratio
Harlequins
57 games
21 wins, 3 draws, 33 losses – 37% win ratio
Exeter
2 games
0 wins,2 losses – 0% win ratio
London Welsh and Worcester – N/A
My findings are that English sides deserve their 6 places because they have 6 sides with 60% plus win ratio. Surprised by Quins to be honest.
Thoughts?
I think that for some reason, you're trying to perpetuate an argument on a subject that many find hugely immotive and that everybody has an opinion on.
We've all had some fun, but seriously, you're like a dog with a bone. Let it go...
If you don't have a worthwhile opinion on the topic then don't post. I thought people might be interested by the stats clearly labelled out. It displaces a few myths and strengthens the English club's position.
Why don't you actually talk about rugby for once instead of arguing with me?
Its about time you stopped being so childish Timmy, thats an incredibly hypocritical statement given the article you've so painstakingly compiled and in light of the other articles you've been involved with on the same subject.
Jimpy- Posts : 2823
Join date : 2012-08-02
Location : Not in a hot sandy place anymore
Re: Heineken Cup Overall records - English,Scots,Irish and Welsh clubs.
This is about the topic of rugby
I love the irony. Stop hijacking this thread with your bile.
If you don't agree with my thread and stats then don't post.
I know you have a frightening obsession with me but please try keep it under control.
If you get kicks about annoying a completely random stranger you really are a very very sad individual who should get a life.
I love the irony. Stop hijacking this thread with your bile.
If you don't agree with my thread and stats then don't post.
I know you have a frightening obsession with me but please try keep it under control.
If you get kicks about annoying a completely random stranger you really are a very very sad individual who should get a life.
Last edited by beshocked on Fri 26 Oct 2012 - 10:12; edited 1 time in total
beshocked- Posts : 14849
Join date : 2011-03-08
Re: Heineken Cup Overall records - English,Scots,Irish and Welsh clubs.
Jimpy wrote:beshocked wrote:Jimpy wrote:beshocked wrote:Welsh sides
Scarlets
107 games
56 wins 1 draw 50 losses – 52% win ratio
Cardiff
104 games
53 wins, 4 draws, 47 losses -51% win ratio
Ospreys
59 games
29 wins, 3 draws, 27 losses – 49% win ratio
Dragons
42 games
9 wins, 33 losses -21% win ratio
Scottish sides
Edinburgh
93 games
34 wins, 3 draws, 56 losses – 36% win ratio
Glasgow
81 games
25 wins, 2 draws, 54 losses – 31% win ratio
Irish sides
Munster
124 games
87 wins, 1 draw, 36 losses – 70% win ratio
Leinster
117 games
79 wins,3 draws,35 losses – 67.5% win ratio
Ulster
105 games
49 wins, 3 draws, 53 losses -46% win ratio
Connacht
8 games
2 wins, 6 losses – 25% win ratio
English sides
Leicester
112 games
74 wins, 4 draws, 34 losses – 66% win ratio
Wasps
78 games
51 wins, 1 draw, 26 losses – 65% ratio
Saracens
41 games
25 wins, 16 losses – 61% win ratio
Saints
73 games
44 wins, 29 losses – 60% win ratio
Bath
72 games
43 wins, 1 draw, 28 losses -60% win ratio
Gloucester
58 games
35 wins, 1 draw, 22 losses – 60% win ratio
Sale
39 games
18 wins, 21 losses – 46%
London Irish
38 games
16 wins,1 draw,21 losses -42% win ratio
Harlequins
57 games
21 wins, 3 draws, 33 losses – 37% win ratio
Exeter
2 games
0 wins,2 losses – 0% win ratio
London Welsh and Worcester – N/A
My findings are that English sides deserve their 6 places because they have 6 sides with 60% plus win ratio. Surprised by Quins to be honest.
Thoughts?
I think that for some reason, you're trying to perpetuate an argument on a subject that many find hugely immotive and that everybody has an opinion on.
We've all had some fun, but seriously, you're like a dog with a bone. Let it go...
If you don't have a worthwhile opinion on the topic then don't post. I thought people might be interested by the stats clearly labelled out. It displaces a few myths and strengthens the English club's position.
Why don't you actually talk about rugby for once instead of arguing with me?
Its about time you stopped being so childish Timmy, thats an incredibly hypocritical statement given the article you've so painstakingly compiled and in light of the other articles you've been involved with on the same subject.
Hypocritical? Looked like he was talking about rugby to me
Pete C (Kiwireddevil)- Posts : 10925
Join date : 2011-01-26
Location : London, England
Re: Heineken Cup Overall records - English,Scots,Irish and Welsh clubs.
In a blatant attempt to antagonise 606 members supporting the RABO Direct 12 - yes.
I wonder how long it is before Connacht turn up in conversation - hey, look, i'm talking about rugby.
I wonder how long it is before Connacht turn up in conversation - hey, look, i'm talking about rugby.
Jimpy- Posts : 2823
Join date : 2012-08-02
Location : Not in a hot sandy place anymore
Re: Heineken Cup Overall records - English,Scots,Irish and Welsh clubs.
Jimpy I love the irony yet again. You antagonise fans all the time. Ok all the time is stretching it a bit - 95% of the time.
If a sensible poster said let it go I might actually listen but a hypocrite like you? No.
I am apologise to Pro12 fans if they are upset by the stats. Only the sides in the list can change them. If I have particularly offended someone I apologise. I just want a healthy discussion. I can understand Secretfly,Kingshu etc points of view though I don't agree. They also talk about rugby.
I admit I have done the Connacht subject to death - I only mention them in this topic very briefly because they are one of the 4 Irish regions and their stats need to be seen.
I thought people might be genuinely interested by those stats. I didn't know Munster's overall record was that good or that Gloucester or Bath were that good too.
If a sensible poster said let it go I might actually listen but a hypocrite like you? No.
I am apologise to Pro12 fans if they are upset by the stats. Only the sides in the list can change them. If I have particularly offended someone I apologise. I just want a healthy discussion. I can understand Secretfly,Kingshu etc points of view though I don't agree. They also talk about rugby.
I admit I have done the Connacht subject to death - I only mention them in this topic very briefly because they are one of the 4 Irish regions and their stats need to be seen.
I thought people might be genuinely interested by those stats. I didn't know Munster's overall record was that good or that Gloucester or Bath were that good too.
Last edited by beshocked on Fri 26 Oct 2012 - 10:24; edited 1 time in total
beshocked- Posts : 14849
Join date : 2011-03-08
Re: Heineken Cup Overall records - English,Scots,Irish and Welsh clubs.
I think I and pretty much everybody else has had the stats thrust in front of them ad nauseum..
Jimpy- Posts : 2823
Join date : 2012-08-02
Location : Not in a hot sandy place anymore
Re: Heineken Cup Overall records - English,Scots,Irish and Welsh clubs.
If you have a problem with this topic let it die. Stop posting on it. Or are you just trying to kill it by wanting the mods to lock it because yet again you have sabotaged a thread.
Everybody else? Can you read minds now?
If you don't want to see the overall heineken cup records of English,Scots,Irish and Welsh clubs don't look.
Everybody else? Can you read minds now?
If you don't want to see the overall heineken cup records of English,Scots,Irish and Welsh clubs don't look.
beshocked- Posts : 14849
Join date : 2011-03-08
Re: Heineken Cup Overall records - English,Scots,Irish and Welsh clubs.
beshocked wrote:If you have a problem with this topic let it die. Stop posting on it. Or are you just trying to kill it by wanting the mods to lock it because yet again you have sabotaged a thread.
Everybody else? Can you read minds now?
If you don't want to see the overall heineken cup records of English,Scots,Irish and Welsh clubs don't look.
I don't have to, I can read.
Jimpy- Posts : 2823
Join date : 2012-08-02
Location : Not in a hot sandy place anymore
Re: Heineken Cup Overall records - English,Scots,Irish and Welsh clubs.
I cant be bothered arguing with you anymore.
beshocked- Posts : 14849
Join date : 2011-03-08
Re: Heineken Cup Overall records - English,Scots,Irish and Welsh clubs.
Kingshu wrote:No comments so far, sums up peoples opinions on this.
Hey Kingshu, you must be a mind reader too
Jimpy- Posts : 2823
Join date : 2012-08-02
Location : Not in a hot sandy place anymore
Re: Heineken Cup Overall records - English,Scots,Irish and Welsh clubs.
I suppose the stats show English sides are more consistent but have produced less winners in recent years.
Can't really say much more about those stats in all honesty.
Can't really say much more about those stats in all honesty.
RuggerRadge2611- Posts : 7194
Join date : 2011-03-04
Age : 39
Location : The North, The REAL North (Beyond the Wall)
Re: Heineken Cup Overall records - English,Scots,Irish and Welsh clubs.
Beshocked,
I thought this was interesting until I read the last line and realised it is yet another Rabo v Premiership Heineken Cup debate.
I thought this was interesting until I read the last line and realised it is yet another Rabo v Premiership Heineken Cup debate.
Re: Heineken Cup Overall records - English,Scots,Irish and Welsh clubs.
I don't think winning % count for much.
Take Ulster, H-cup winners and last years finalists, in between time we hit a slump and had a number of poor years (still won most of the home games mind) but that has given them a lower winning %
I don't think a teams overall winning % relates to current performance.
I also don't think stats going back to 1995 give an indicaton to current league strengths, maybe overall since 1995.
So I don't think you can say,
"My findings are that English sides deserve their 6 places because they have 6 sides with 60% plus win ratio. "
If you are wanting to compare Leauges to see if any league deserves more places than another, you would need to use a coefficient.
Uefa use the last 5 years for thier League coefficient, so I guess the last 5 years European results would be a good start.
Winning % from 1995 means nothing in terms of a leagues strength, a coefficient using the last 5 years results may convince me
Take Ulster, H-cup winners and last years finalists, in between time we hit a slump and had a number of poor years (still won most of the home games mind) but that has given them a lower winning %
I don't think a teams overall winning % relates to current performance.
I also don't think stats going back to 1995 give an indicaton to current league strengths, maybe overall since 1995.
So I don't think you can say,
"My findings are that English sides deserve their 6 places because they have 6 sides with 60% plus win ratio. "
If you are wanting to compare Leauges to see if any league deserves more places than another, you would need to use a coefficient.
Uefa use the last 5 years for thier League coefficient, so I guess the last 5 years European results would be a good start.
Winning % from 1995 means nothing in terms of a leagues strength, a coefficient using the last 5 years results may convince me
Kingshu- Posts : 4124
Join date : 2011-05-30
Re: Heineken Cup Overall records - English,Scots,Irish and Welsh clubs.
As the saying goes"there are lies,damn lies & statistics"We can all choose the ones that strenghen our arguement
broadlandboy- Posts : 1153
Join date : 2011-09-21
Re: Heineken Cup Overall records - English,Scots,Irish and Welsh clubs.
red_stag wrote:Beshocked,
I thought this was interesting until I read the last line and realised it is yet another Rabo v Premiership Heineken Cup debate.
I'll scrap the last line then.
You're right. I shouldn't make this a Pro12 vs AP debate.
beshocked- Posts : 14849
Join date : 2011-03-08
Re: Heineken Cup Overall records - English,Scots,Irish and Welsh clubs.
Kingshu wrote:I don't think winning % count for much.
Take Ulster, H-cup winners and last years finalists, in between time we hit a slump and had a number of poor years (still won most of the home games mind) but that has given them a lower winning %
I don't think a teams overall winning % relates to current performance.
I also don't think stats going back to 1995 give an indicaton to current league strengths, maybe overall since 1995.
So I don't think you can say,
"My findings are that English sides deserve their 6 places because they have 6 sides with 60% plus win ratio. "
If you are wanting to compare Leauges to see if any league deserves more places than another, you would need to use a coefficient.
Uefa use the last 5 years for thier League coefficient, so I guess the last 5 years European results would be a good start.
Winning % from 1995 means nothing in terms of a leagues strength, a coefficient using the last 5 years results may convince me
Kingshu slumps are still important in regards to consistency. It amazes me that Leinster and Munster have been that consistent.
You could still point out that Ulster have won a HC whereas some sides with higher win % have not.
A HC win is worth a hell of a lot more than a high win %.
4 different English sides have won the HC - Bath,Saints,Leicester and Wasps.
3 different Irish sides have won the HC - Ulster,Leinster,Munster
Funnily enough the English club's two best chances of a HC winner this season haven't won it - Sarries and Quins.
beshocked- Posts : 14849
Join date : 2011-03-08
Re: Heineken Cup Overall records - English,Scots,Irish and Welsh clubs.
beshocked wrote:red_stag wrote:Beshocked,
I thought this was interesting until I read the last line and realised it is yet another Rabo v Premiership Heineken Cup debate.
I'll scrap the last line then.
You're right. I shouldn't make this a Pro12 vs AP debate.
I like having a read of this kind of thing.
BTW are you popping over to Limerick for the Munster v Sarries match?
Re: Heineken Cup Overall records - English,Scots,Irish and Welsh clubs.
Kingshu wrote:I don't think winning % count for much.
Take Ulster, H-cup winners and last years finalists, in between time we hit a slump and had a number of poor years (still won most of the home games mind) but that has given them a lower winning %
I don't think a teams overall winning % relates to current performance.
I also don't think stats going back to 1995 give an indicaton to current league strengths, maybe overall since 1995.
So I don't think you can say,
"My findings are that English sides deserve their 6 places because they have 6 sides with 60% plus win ratio. "
If you are wanting to compare Leauges to see if any league deserves more places than another, you would need to use a coefficient.
Uefa use the last 5 years for thier League coefficient, so I guess the last 5 years European results would be a good start.
Winning % from 1995 means nothing in terms of a leagues strength, a coefficient using the last 5 years results may convince me
I have to agree with this. Imagine it UEFA took the same approach as the original poster here. Nottingham Forest and Aston Villa must have magnificent records in the European Cup if we looked at their records but it tells us absolutely nothing about contemporary English football in Europe. The past five years results should really be the best indicators if you want to have a real point here and add something valid to the argument. Otherwise the OP has turned this into another of his preoccupations with Connacht and the Pro12.
I say this as an Ulster fan whose side's record in the past five-six years, bar last year might be best described as horrific.
Hookisms and Hyperbole- Posts : 1653
Join date : 2011-09-13
Re: Heineken Cup Overall records - English,Scots,Irish and Welsh clubs.
Well I think its interesting, shows how strong Munster have been historically.
A few quirks there, Cardiff and the Scarlets are using their pre-regions figures and the other 2 are not. I wonder if that was changed whether the % wins would be closer?
Not wanting to get drawn into a debate about Ap vs Rabo, but in fact Bath for example have better stats by not being in the HC each year. The 60% win ratio is clearly bolstered by the win in 1998 and several good seasons when we made the quarters etc. However, when we have being going through low patches (which has been pretty much since 1998!) we havent qualified for the HC and so therefore our stats stay the same, as we havent played to be able to win/lose.
I would guess that only Leicester have been in the HC ever year and so they are the only english team which can accurately be compared to Munster, Leinster etc?
A few quirks there, Cardiff and the Scarlets are using their pre-regions figures and the other 2 are not. I wonder if that was changed whether the % wins would be closer?
Not wanting to get drawn into a debate about Ap vs Rabo, but in fact Bath for example have better stats by not being in the HC each year. The 60% win ratio is clearly bolstered by the win in 1998 and several good seasons when we made the quarters etc. However, when we have being going through low patches (which has been pretty much since 1998!) we havent qualified for the HC and so therefore our stats stay the same, as we havent played to be able to win/lose.
I would guess that only Leicester have been in the HC ever year and so they are the only english team which can accurately be compared to Munster, Leinster etc?
Bathman_in_London- Posts : 2266
Join date : 2011-06-03
Re: Heineken Cup Overall records - English,Scots,Irish and Welsh clubs.
The stats are interesting by must be taken in context - I'd be interested to see the trajectory of club success over the life of the Heino to date? That would be a more useful indicator of the levels of progress being made?
AsLongAsBut100ofUs- Posts : 14129
Join date : 2011-03-26
Age : 112
Location : Devon/London
Re: Heineken Cup Overall records - English,Scots,Irish and Welsh clubs.
Red stag I might go.
Kingshu and Hookisms I agree but collating the results in the last 5 years is not something I feel like doing! That would take a long time if I had to do them all.
Maybe a fan from each side does their own?
Kingshu and Hookisms I agree but collating the results in the last 5 years is not something I feel like doing! That would take a long time if I had to do them all.
Maybe a fan from each side does their own?
beshocked- Posts : 14849
Join date : 2011-03-08
Re: Heineken Cup Overall records - English,Scots,Irish and Welsh clubs.
For leagues could add up ERC clubs ranking points for each team (last 4 years european performance) , and divide by number of teams in the in leauge, this would give a rough co-efficient.
Pro 12 =12.91
French league = 9.57
English League = 8.67
This would be a better indicator of league strenght, based on European competation, than winning %, basically average erc points per league.
Pro 12 =12.91
French league = 9.57
English League = 8.67
This would be a better indicator of league strenght, based on European competation, than winning %, basically average erc points per league.
Kingshu- Posts : 4124
Join date : 2011-05-30
Re: Heineken Cup Overall records - English,Scots,Irish and Welsh clubs.
Kingshu - that is a bit harsh on the Jeff, seeing as London Welsh have never been in european competitions before.
ScarletSpiderman- Posts : 9944
Join date : 2011-01-28
Age : 40
Location : Pembs
Re: Heineken Cup Overall records - English,Scots,Irish and Welsh clubs.
Last 5 years heineken cup results (in order of highest win percentage)
TEAM P W D L win %
Leinster 41 31 2 8 75.6097561
munster 38 28 0 10 73.68421053
toulouse 40 28 1 11 70
Cardiff 34 23 1 10 67.64705882
wasps 18 12 0 6 66.66666667
Northampton 22 14 0 8 63.63636364
biarritz 34 21 0 13 61.76470588
clermont 33 20 0 13 60.60606061
Gloucester 25 15 0 10 60
Perpignan 27 16 1 10 59.25925926
leicester 34 20 2 12 58.82352941
Stade Français 19 11 0 8 57.89473684
saracens 21 12 0 9 57.14285714
toulon 7 4 0 3 57.14285714
Ospreys 33 18 2 13 54.54545455
Ulster 34 18 1 15 52.94117647
bristol 6 3 0 3 50
Sale 12 6 0 6 50
London Irish 26 12 1 13 46.15384615
edinburgh 32 14 0 18 43.75
glasgow 30 12 1 17 40
Scarlets 30 11 1 18 36.66666667
Harlequins 25 9 1 15 36
bath 25 9 1 16 36
castres 18 5 0 13 27.77777778
racing metro 12 3 0 9 25
Treviso 30 5 1 24 16.66666667
Bourgoin 6 1 0 5 16.66666667
Montauban 6 1 0 5 16.66666667
Montpellier 6 1 2 3 16.66666667
connacht 6 1 0 5 16.66666667
Dragons 18 2 0 16 11.11111111
aironi 12 1 0 11 8.333333333
viadanna 12 0 0 6 0
calvisano 6 0 0 6 0
Brive 6 0 0 6 0
TEAM P W D L win %
Leinster 41 31 2 8 75.6097561
munster 38 28 0 10 73.68421053
toulouse 40 28 1 11 70
Cardiff 34 23 1 10 67.64705882
wasps 18 12 0 6 66.66666667
Northampton 22 14 0 8 63.63636364
biarritz 34 21 0 13 61.76470588
clermont 33 20 0 13 60.60606061
Gloucester 25 15 0 10 60
Perpignan 27 16 1 10 59.25925926
leicester 34 20 2 12 58.82352941
Stade Français 19 11 0 8 57.89473684
saracens 21 12 0 9 57.14285714
toulon 7 4 0 3 57.14285714
Ospreys 33 18 2 13 54.54545455
Ulster 34 18 1 15 52.94117647
bristol 6 3 0 3 50
Sale 12 6 0 6 50
London Irish 26 12 1 13 46.15384615
edinburgh 32 14 0 18 43.75
glasgow 30 12 1 17 40
Scarlets 30 11 1 18 36.66666667
Harlequins 25 9 1 15 36
bath 25 9 1 16 36
castres 18 5 0 13 27.77777778
racing metro 12 3 0 9 25
Treviso 30 5 1 24 16.66666667
Bourgoin 6 1 0 5 16.66666667
Montauban 6 1 0 5 16.66666667
Montpellier 6 1 2 3 16.66666667
connacht 6 1 0 5 16.66666667
Dragons 18 2 0 16 11.11111111
aironi 12 1 0 11 8.333333333
viadanna 12 0 0 6 0
calvisano 6 0 0 6 0
Brive 6 0 0 6 0
Funkingfullback- Posts : 13
Join date : 2011-08-25
Re: Heineken Cup Overall records - English,Scots,Irish and Welsh clubs.
ScarletSpiderman wrote:Kingshu - that is a bit harsh on the Jeff, seeing as London Welsh have never been in european competitions before.
Neither have Zebre
Kingshu- Posts : 4124
Join date : 2011-05-30
Re: Heineken Cup Overall records - English,Scots,Irish and Welsh clubs.
So going by those figures the teams who should be in the HEC are
Leinster
munster
toulouse
Cardiff
wasps
Northampton
biarritz
clermont
Gloucester
Perpignan
leicester
Stade Français
saracens
toulon
Ospreys
Ulster
bristol
Sale
London Irish
edinburgh
And the following are not worthy to be in the HEC are
glasgow,
Scarlets,
Harlequins,
bath,
castres,
racing metro,
Treviso,
Bourgoin
Montauban,
Montpellier,
connacht,
Dragons,
aironi,
Brive
Leinster
munster
toulouse
Cardiff
wasps
Northampton
biarritz
clermont
Gloucester
Perpignan
leicester
Stade Français
saracens
toulon
Ospreys
Ulster
bristol
Sale
London Irish
edinburgh
And the following are not worthy to be in the HEC are
glasgow,
Scarlets,
Harlequins,
bath,
castres,
racing metro,
Treviso,
Bourgoin
Montauban,
Montpellier,
connacht,
Dragons,
aironi,
Brive
ScarletSpiderman- Posts : 9944
Join date : 2011-01-28
Age : 40
Location : Pembs
Re: Heineken Cup Overall records - English,Scots,Irish and Welsh clubs.
Kingshu wrote:ScarletSpiderman wrote:Kingshu - that is a bit harsh on the Jeff, seeing as London Welsh have never been in european competitions before.
Neither have Zebre
Good call, I assumed they were given Aironi's ranking points (0pts).
ScarletSpiderman- Posts : 9944
Join date : 2011-01-28
Age : 40
Location : Pembs
HERSH- Posts : 4207
Join date : 2011-08-26
Location : Arundel/Bath
Re: Heineken Cup Overall records - English,Scots,Irish and Welsh clubs.
HERSH wrote:Bristol
You can laugh they are better than Bath (and a heap of other teams cough cough)
ScarletSpiderman- Posts : 9944
Join date : 2011-01-28
Age : 40
Location : Pembs
Re: Heineken Cup Overall records - English,Scots,Irish and Welsh clubs.
So from Funkingfullback's top 20
8 English
6 Rabo
6 French
8 English
6 Rabo
6 French
broadlandboy- Posts : 1153
Join date : 2011-09-21
Re: Heineken Cup Overall records - English,Scots,Irish and Welsh clubs.
broadlandboy wrote:So from Funkingfullback's top 20
8 English
6 Rabo
6 French
Top 14 6 Teams
Toulouse
Biarritz
Clermont
Perpignan
Stade Français
Toulon
Rabo Pro12 6 Teams
Leinster
Munster
Cardiff
Ospreys
Ulster
Edinburgh
Jeff 7 Teams
Wasps
Northampton
Gloucester
Leicester
Saracens
Sale
London Irish
Championship 1 Team
Bristol
ScarletSpiderman- Posts : 9944
Join date : 2011-01-28
Age : 40
Location : Pembs
Re: Heineken Cup Overall records - English,Scots,Irish and Welsh clubs.
http://www.eurorugby.com/index.php
these ones seam to have a fairly good ranking system based on European and league form
average (Had to leave out one from each league as no Zebre, or London Welsh)
French 61.53
Pro 12 56.833
English 55.08
these ones seam to have a fairly good ranking system based on European and league form
average (Had to leave out one from each league as no Zebre, or London Welsh)
French 61.53
Pro 12 56.833
English 55.08
Kingshu- Posts : 4124
Join date : 2011-05-30
Re: Heineken Cup Overall records - English,Scots,Irish and Welsh clubs.
They are still English
broadlandboy- Posts : 1153
Join date : 2011-09-21
Re: Heineken Cup Overall records - English,Scots,Irish and Welsh clubs.
beshocked wrote:Awww kingshu that's so sweet of you to put down a comment just to make me feel better.
I just don't think too many Pro12 fans are pleased with the findings. Can't blame them to be honest.
The misery of rugby AKA Saracens getting smashed (like they did against Clermont) tends to be the highlight for the Rabo's.
Morgannwg- Posts : 6338
Join date : 2011-10-10
Location : Bristol - Newport
Re: Heineken Cup Overall records - English,Scots,Irish and Welsh clubs.
Morgannwg wrote:beshocked wrote:Awww kingshu that's so sweet of you to put down a comment just to make me feel better.
I just don't think too many Pro12 fans are pleased with the findings. Can't blame them to be honest.
The misery of rugby AKA Saracens getting smashed (like they did against Clermont) tends to be the highlight for the Rabo's.
I agree it must be a Rabo highlight because you have none of your own vs Sarries. Sorry to break this to you but Clermont aren't a Rabo side. Leinster are though. Saracens do find it difficult against the two best sides in Europe unsurprisingly.
beshocked- Posts : 14849
Join date : 2011-03-08
Re: Heineken Cup Overall records - English,Scots,Irish and Welsh clubs.
Not very current is it ...
If it was over the last decade at least or better five years it would show a current and more accurate figure of the state of rugby in Europe.
Where are the french and italian figures?
If it was over the last decade at least or better five years it would show a current and more accurate figure of the state of rugby in Europe.
Where are the french and italian figures?
maestegmafia- Posts : 23145
Join date : 2011-03-05
Location : Glyncorrwg
Re: Heineken Cup Overall records - English,Scots,Irish and Welsh clubs.
Maestegmafia look at funking full back's figures.
beshocked- Posts : 14849
Join date : 2011-03-08
maestegmafia- Posts : 23145
Join date : 2011-03-05
Location : Glyncorrwg
Re: Heineken Cup Overall records - English,Scots,Irish and Welsh clubs.
Maestegmafia, I put in an earlier post a roughly fairer way to compare Leagues than winning %
It only uses last 4 years European record,
For leagues add up ERC clubs ranking points for each team (last 4 years european performance) , and divide by number of teams in the leauge, this would give a rough co-efficient.
Pro 12 =12.91
French league = 9.57
English League = 8.67
This would be a better indicator of league strenght, based on European competation, than winning %.
Basically average ERC points per league.
Its not perfect, but is the best rough indicator anyone has come up with so far.
It only uses last 4 years European record,
For leagues add up ERC clubs ranking points for each team (last 4 years european performance) , and divide by number of teams in the leauge, this would give a rough co-efficient.
Pro 12 =12.91
French league = 9.57
English League = 8.67
This would be a better indicator of league strenght, based on European competation, than winning %.
Basically average ERC points per league.
Its not perfect, but is the best rough indicator anyone has come up with so far.
Kingshu- Posts : 4124
Join date : 2011-05-30
Re: Heineken Cup Overall records - English,Scots,Irish and Welsh clubs.
Leinster
munster
toulouse
Cardiff
wasps
Northampton
biarritz
clermont
Gloucester
Perpignan
leicester
Stade Français
saracens
toulon
Ospreys
Ulster
Sale
London Irish
edinburgh
Just add Treviso minus Bristol and you have a great HEC.
Pool 1
Leinster
Wasps
Perpignan
Tigers
Pool 2
Munster
Saints
Stade Francais
Edinburgh
Pool 3
Toulouse
Gloucester
Ulster
biarritz
Pool 4
Toulon
Cardiff
Sale
London Irish
Pool 5
clermont
Saracens
Treviso
Ospreys
munster
toulouse
Cardiff
wasps
Northampton
biarritz
clermont
Gloucester
Perpignan
leicester
Stade Français
saracens
toulon
Ospreys
Ulster
Sale
London Irish
edinburgh
Just add Treviso minus Bristol and you have a great HEC.
Pool 1
Leinster
Wasps
Perpignan
Tigers
Pool 2
Munster
Saints
Stade Francais
Edinburgh
Pool 3
Toulouse
Gloucester
Ulster
biarritz
Pool 4
Toulon
Cardiff
Sale
London Irish
Pool 5
clermont
Saracens
Treviso
Ospreys
maestegmafia- Posts : 23145
Join date : 2011-03-05
Location : Glyncorrwg
Re: Heineken Cup Overall records - English,Scots,Irish and Welsh clubs.
Kingshu - do that for nations and suddenly the rabo nations all look really poor (bar Ireland).
ScarletSpiderman- Posts : 9944
Join date : 2011-01-28
Age : 40
Location : Pembs
Re: Heineken Cup Overall records - English,Scots,Irish and Welsh clubs.
The stats tell me England have more bloody sides than us Irish!!! I think we should pull out of Europe as protest That'll learn 'em!
SecretFly- Posts : 31800
Join date : 2011-12-12
Re: Heineken Cup Overall records - English,Scots,Irish and Welsh clubs.
Take Connacht with you please, apparently they're a load of rubbish.
Jimpy- Posts : 2823
Join date : 2012-08-02
Location : Not in a hot sandy place anymore
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