Heineken Cup Overall records - English,Scots,Irish and Welsh clubs.

by beshocked Fri 26 Oct 2012 - 9:31

Welsh sides

Scarlets

107 games

56 wins 1 draw 50 losses – 52% win ratio

Cardiff

104 games

53 wins, 4 draws, 47 losses -51% win ratio

Ospreys

59 games

29 wins, 3 draws, 27 losses – 49% win ratio

Dragons

42 games

9 wins, 33 losses -21% win ratio

Scottish sides

Edinburgh

93 games

34 wins, 3 draws, 56 losses – 36% win ratio

Glasgow

81 games

25 wins, 2 draws, 54 losses – 31% win ratio

Irish sides

Munster

124 games

87 wins, 1 draw, 36 losses – 70% win ratio

Leinster

117 games

79 wins,3 draws,35 losses – 67.5% win ratio

Ulster

105 games

49 wins, 3 draws, 53 losses -46% win ratio

Connacht

8 games

2 wins, 6 losses – 25% win ratio

English sides

Leicester

112 games

74 wins, 4 draws, 34 losses – 66% win ratio

Wasps

78 games

51 wins, 1 draw, 26 losses – 65% ratio

Saracens

41 games

25 wins, 16 losses – 61% win ratio

Saints

73 games

44 wins, 29 losses – 60% win ratio

Bath

72 games

43 wins, 1 draw, 28 losses -60% win ratio

Gloucester

58 games

35 wins, 1 draw, 22 losses – 60% win ratio

Sale

39 games

18 wins, 21 losses – 46%

London Irish

38 games

16 wins,1 draw,21 losses -42% win ratio

Harlequins

57 games

21 wins, 3 draws, 33 losses – 37% win ratio

Exeter

2 games

0 wins,2 losses – 0% win ratio

London Welsh and Worcester – N/A

Thoughts?

by Kingshu Fri 26 Oct 2012 - 9:46

No comments so far, sums up peoples opinions on this.

by Jimpy Fri 26 Oct 2012 - 9:50

beshocked wrote:Welsh sides

Scarlets

107 games

56 wins 1 draw 50 losses – 52% win ratio

Cardiff

104 games

53 wins, 4 draws, 47 losses -51% win ratio

Ospreys

59 games

29 wins, 3 draws, 27 losses – 49% win ratio

Dragons

42 games

9 wins, 33 losses -21% win ratio

Scottish sides

Edinburgh

93 games

34 wins, 3 draws, 56 losses – 36% win ratio

Glasgow

81 games

25 wins, 2 draws, 54 losses – 31% win ratio

Irish sides

Munster

124 games

87 wins, 1 draw, 36 losses – 70% win ratio

Leinster

117 games

79 wins,3 draws,35 losses – 67.5% win ratio

Ulster

105 games

49 wins, 3 draws, 53 losses -46% win ratio

Connacht

8 games

2 wins, 6 losses – 25% win ratio

English sides

Leicester

112 games

74 wins, 4 draws, 34 losses – 66% win ratio

Wasps

78 games

51 wins, 1 draw, 26 losses – 65% ratio

Saracens

41 games

25 wins, 16 losses – 61% win ratio

Saints

73 games

44 wins, 29 losses – 60% win ratio

Bath

72 games

43 wins, 1 draw, 28 losses -60% win ratio

Gloucester

58 games

35 wins, 1 draw, 22 losses – 60% win ratio

Sale

39 games

18 wins, 21 losses – 46%

London Irish

38 games

16 wins,1 draw,21 losses -42% win ratio

Harlequins

57 games

21 wins, 3 draws, 33 losses – 37% win ratio

Exeter

2 games

0 wins,2 losses – 0% win ratio

London Welsh and Worcester – N/A

My findings are that English sides deserve their 6 places because they have 6 sides with 60% plus win ratio. Surprised by Quins to be honest.

Thoughts?

I think that for some reason, you're trying to perpetuate an argument on a subject that many find hugely immotive and that everybody has an opinion on.

We've all had some fun, but seriously, you're like a dog with a bone. Let it go...

by beshocked Fri 26 Oct 2012 - 9:52

Awww kingshu that's so sweet of you to put down a comment just to make me feel better. Hug

I just don't think too many Pro12 fans are pleased with the findings. Can't blame them to be honest. thumbsup

by Dubbelyew L Overate Fri 26 Oct 2012 - 9:54

Exeter are rubbish, throw them out immediately.

by beshocked Fri 26 Oct 2012 - 9:56

Jimpy wrote:
beshocked wrote:Welsh sides

Scarlets

107 games

56 wins 1 draw 50 losses – 52% win ratio

Cardiff

104 games

53 wins, 4 draws, 47 losses -51% win ratio

Ospreys

59 games

29 wins, 3 draws, 27 losses – 49% win ratio

Dragons

42 games

9 wins, 33 losses -21% win ratio

Scottish sides

Edinburgh

93 games

34 wins, 3 draws, 56 losses – 36% win ratio

Glasgow

81 games

25 wins, 2 draws, 54 losses – 31% win ratio

Irish sides

Munster

124 games

87 wins, 1 draw, 36 losses – 70% win ratio

Leinster

117 games

79 wins,3 draws,35 losses – 67.5% win ratio

Ulster

105 games

49 wins, 3 draws, 53 losses -46% win ratio

Connacht

8 games

2 wins, 6 losses – 25% win ratio

English sides

Leicester

112 games

74 wins, 4 draws, 34 losses – 66% win ratio

Wasps

78 games

51 wins, 1 draw, 26 losses – 65% ratio

Saracens

41 games

25 wins, 16 losses – 61% win ratio

Saints

73 games

44 wins, 29 losses – 60% win ratio

Bath

72 games

43 wins, 1 draw, 28 losses -60% win ratio

Gloucester

58 games

35 wins, 1 draw, 22 losses – 60% win ratio

Sale

39 games

18 wins, 21 losses – 46%

London Irish

38 games

16 wins,1 draw,21 losses -42% win ratio

Harlequins

57 games

21 wins, 3 draws, 33 losses – 37% win ratio

Exeter

2 games

0 wins,2 losses – 0% win ratio

London Welsh and Worcester – N/A

My findings are that English sides deserve their 6 places because they have 6 sides with 60% plus win ratio. Surprised by Quins to be honest.

Thoughts?

I think that for some reason, you're trying to perpetuate an argument on a subject that many find hugely immotive and that everybody has an opinion on.

We've all had some fun, but seriously, you're like a dog with a bone. Let it go...

If you don't have a worthwhile opinion on the topic then don't post. I thought people might be interested by the stats clearly labelled out. It displaces a few myths and strengthens the English club's position.

Why don't you actually talk about rugby for once instead of arguing with me?

by beshocked Fri 26 Oct 2012 - 9:58

Dubbelyew L Overate wrote:Exeter are rubbish, throw them out immediately.

You know I don't think Exeter are rubbish right? I am only putting out the stats as they are.

It's hard to gauge Exeter because they haven't been competing in European competitions for long.

Their first two games have been against Leinster and Clermont - arguably the two best sides in Europe.

by Jimpy Fri 26 Oct 2012 - 10:01

beshocked wrote:
Jimpy wrote:
beshocked wrote:Welsh sides

Scarlets

107 games

56 wins 1 draw 50 losses – 52% win ratio

Cardiff

104 games

53 wins, 4 draws, 47 losses -51% win ratio

Ospreys

59 games

29 wins, 3 draws, 27 losses – 49% win ratio

Dragons

42 games

9 wins, 33 losses -21% win ratio

Scottish sides

Edinburgh

93 games

34 wins, 3 draws, 56 losses – 36% win ratio

Glasgow

81 games

25 wins, 2 draws, 54 losses – 31% win ratio

Irish sides

Munster

124 games

87 wins, 1 draw, 36 losses – 70% win ratio

Leinster

117 games

79 wins,3 draws,35 losses – 67.5% win ratio

Ulster

105 games

49 wins, 3 draws, 53 losses -46% win ratio

Connacht

8 games

2 wins, 6 losses – 25% win ratio

English sides

Leicester

112 games

74 wins, 4 draws, 34 losses – 66% win ratio

Wasps

78 games

51 wins, 1 draw, 26 losses – 65% ratio

Saracens

41 games

25 wins, 16 losses – 61% win ratio

Saints

73 games

44 wins, 29 losses – 60% win ratio

Bath

72 games

43 wins, 1 draw, 28 losses -60% win ratio

Gloucester

58 games

35 wins, 1 draw, 22 losses – 60% win ratio

Sale

39 games

18 wins, 21 losses – 46%

London Irish

38 games

16 wins,1 draw,21 losses -42% win ratio

Harlequins

57 games

21 wins, 3 draws, 33 losses – 37% win ratio

Exeter

2 games

0 wins,2 losses – 0% win ratio

London Welsh and Worcester – N/A

My findings are that English sides deserve their 6 places because they have 6 sides with 60% plus win ratio. Surprised by Quins to be honest.

Thoughts?

I think that for some reason, you're trying to perpetuate an argument on a subject that many find hugely immotive and that everybody has an opinion on.

We've all had some fun, but seriously, you're like a dog with a bone. Let it go...

If you don't have a worthwhile opinion on the topic then don't post. I thought people might be interested by the stats clearly labelled out. It displaces a few myths and strengthens the English club's position.

Why don't you actually talk about rugby for once instead of arguing with me?

Its about time you stopped being so childish Timmy, thats an incredibly hypocritical statement given the article you've so painstakingly compiled and in light of the other articles you've been involved with on the same subject.

by beshocked Fri 26 Oct 2012 - 10:11

This is about the topic of rugby

I love the irony. Stop hijacking this thread with your bile.

If you don't agree with my thread and stats then don't post.

I know you have a frightening obsession with me but please try keep it under control.

If you get kicks about annoying a completely random stranger you really are a very very sad individual who should get a life.

by Pete C (Kiwireddevil) Fri 26 Oct 2012 - 10:12

Jimpy wrote:
beshocked wrote:
Jimpy wrote:
beshocked wrote:Welsh sides

Scarlets

107 games

56 wins 1 draw 50 losses – 52% win ratio

Cardiff

104 games

53 wins, 4 draws, 47 losses -51% win ratio

Ospreys

59 games

29 wins, 3 draws, 27 losses – 49% win ratio

Dragons

42 games

9 wins, 33 losses -21% win ratio

Scottish sides

Edinburgh

93 games

34 wins, 3 draws, 56 losses – 36% win ratio

Glasgow

81 games

25 wins, 2 draws, 54 losses – 31% win ratio

Irish sides

Munster

124 games

87 wins, 1 draw, 36 losses – 70% win ratio

Leinster

117 games

79 wins,3 draws,35 losses – 67.5% win ratio

Ulster

105 games

49 wins, 3 draws, 53 losses -46% win ratio

Connacht

8 games

2 wins, 6 losses – 25% win ratio

English sides

Leicester

112 games

74 wins, 4 draws, 34 losses – 66% win ratio

Wasps

78 games

51 wins, 1 draw, 26 losses – 65% ratio

Saracens

41 games

25 wins, 16 losses – 61% win ratio

Saints

73 games

44 wins, 29 losses – 60% win ratio

Bath

72 games

43 wins, 1 draw, 28 losses -60% win ratio

Gloucester

58 games

35 wins, 1 draw, 22 losses – 60% win ratio

Sale

39 games

18 wins, 21 losses – 46%

London Irish

38 games

16 wins,1 draw,21 losses -42% win ratio

Harlequins

57 games

21 wins, 3 draws, 33 losses – 37% win ratio

Exeter

2 games

0 wins,2 losses – 0% win ratio

London Welsh and Worcester – N/A

My findings are that English sides deserve their 6 places because they have 6 sides with 60% plus win ratio. Surprised by Quins to be honest.

Thoughts?

I think that for some reason, you're trying to perpetuate an argument on a subject that many find hugely immotive and that everybody has an opinion on.

We've all had some fun, but seriously, you're like a dog with a bone. Let it go...

If you don't have a worthwhile opinion on the topic then don't post. I thought people might be interested by the stats clearly labelled out. It displaces a few myths and strengthens the English club's position.

Why don't you actually talk about rugby for once instead of arguing with me?

Its about time you stopped being so childish Timmy, thats an incredibly hypocritical statement given the article you've so painstakingly compiled and in light of the other articles you've been involved with on the same subject.

Hypocritical? Looked like he was talking about rugby to me Whistle

by Jimpy Fri 26 Oct 2012 - 10:15

In a blatant attempt to antagonise 606 members supporting the RABO Direct 12 - yes.

I wonder how long it is before Connacht turn up in conversation - hey, look, i'm talking about rugby.

by beshocked Fri 26 Oct 2012 - 10:22

Jimpy I love the irony yet again. You antagonise fans all the time. Ok all the time is stretching it a bit - 95% of the time.

If a sensible poster said let it go I might actually listen but a hypocrite like you? No.

I am apologise to Pro12 fans if they are upset by the stats. Only the sides in the list can change them. If I have particularly offended someone I apologise. I just want a healthy discussion. I can understand Secretfly,Kingshu etc points of view though I don't agree. They also talk about rugby.

I admit I have done the Connacht subject to death - I only mention them in this topic very briefly because they are one of the 4 Irish regions and their stats need to be seen.

I thought people might be genuinely interested by those stats. I didn't know Munster's overall record was that good or that Gloucester or Bath were that good too.

by Jimpy Fri 26 Oct 2012 - 10:23

I think I and pretty much everybody else has had the stats thrust in front of them ad nauseum..

by beshocked Fri 26 Oct 2012 - 10:27

If you have a problem with this topic let it die. Stop posting on it. Or are you just trying to kill it by wanting the mods to lock it because yet again you have sabotaged a thread.

Everybody else? Can you read minds now?

If you don't want to see the overall heineken cup records of English,Scots,Irish and Welsh clubs don't look.

by Jimpy Fri 26 Oct 2012 - 10:30

beshocked wrote:If you have a problem with this topic let it die. Stop posting on it. Or are you just trying to kill it by wanting the mods to lock it because yet again you have sabotaged a thread.

Everybody else? Can you read minds now?
If you don't want to see the overall heineken cup records of English,Scots,Irish and Welsh clubs don't look.

I don't have to, I can read.

by beshocked Fri 26 Oct 2012 - 10:32

I cant be bothered arguing with you anymore.

by Jimpy Fri 26 Oct 2012 - 10:36

Kingshu wrote:No comments so far, sums up peoples opinions on this.

Hey Kingshu, you must be a mind reader too Whistle

by RuggerRadge2611 Fri 26 Oct 2012 - 10:40

I suppose the stats show English sides are more consistent but have produced less winners in recent years.

Can't really say much more about those stats in all honesty.

by red_stag Fri 26 Oct 2012 - 10:44

Beshocked,

I thought this was interesting until I read the last line and realised it is yet another Rabo v Premiership Heineken Cup debate.

by Kingshu Fri 26 Oct 2012 - 10:51

I don't think winning % count for much.

Take Ulster, H-cup winners and last years finalists, in between time we hit a slump and had a number of poor years (still won most of the home games mind) but that has given them a lower winning %

I don't think a teams overall winning % relates to current performance.

I also don't think stats going back to 1995 give an indicaton to current league strengths, maybe overall since 1995.

So I don't think you can say,
"My findings are that English sides deserve their 6 places because they have 6 sides with 60% plus win ratio. "

If you are wanting to compare Leauges to see if any league deserves more places than another, you would need to use a coefficient.

Uefa use the last 5 years for thier League coefficient, so I guess the last 5 years European results would be a good start.

Winning % from 1995 means nothing in terms of a leagues strength, a coefficient using the last 5 years results may convince me

by broadlandboy Fri 26 Oct 2012 - 10:59

As the saying goes"there are lies,damn lies & statistics"We can all choose the ones that strenghen our arguement

by beshocked Fri 26 Oct 2012 - 11:03

red_stag wrote:Beshocked,

I thought this was interesting until I read the last line and realised it is yet another Rabo v Premiership Heineken Cup debate.

I'll scrap the last line then.

You're right. I shouldn't make this a Pro12 vs AP debate.

by beshocked Fri 26 Oct 2012 - 11:09

Kingshu wrote:I don't think winning % count for much.

Take Ulster, H-cup winners and last years finalists, in between time we hit a slump and had a number of poor years (still won most of the home games mind) but that has given them a lower winning %

I don't think a teams overall winning % relates to current performance.

I also don't think stats going back to 1995 give an indicaton to current league strengths, maybe overall since 1995.

So I don't think you can say,
"My findings are that English sides deserve their 6 places because they have 6 sides with 60% plus win ratio. "

If you are wanting to compare Leauges to see if any league deserves more places than another, you would need to use a coefficient.

Uefa use the last 5 years for thier League coefficient, so I guess the last 5 years European results would be a good start.

Winning % from 1995 means nothing in terms of a leagues strength, a coefficient using the last 5 years results may convince me

Kingshu slumps are still important in regards to consistency. It amazes me that Leinster and Munster have been that consistent.

You could still point out that Ulster have won a HC whereas some sides with higher win % have not.

A HC win is worth a hell of a lot more than a high win %.

4 different English sides have won the HC - Bath,Saints,Leicester and Wasps.
3 different Irish sides have won the HC - Ulster,Leinster,Munster

Funnily enough the English club's two best chances of a HC winner this season haven't won it - Sarries and Quins.

by red_stag Fri 26 Oct 2012 - 11:13

beshocked wrote:
red_stag wrote:Beshocked,

I thought this was interesting until I read the last line and realised it is yet another Rabo v Premiership Heineken Cup debate.

I'll scrap the last line then.

You're right. I shouldn't make this a Pro12 vs AP debate.

I like having a read of this kind of thing.

BTW are you popping over to Limerick for the Munster v Sarries match?

by Hookisms and Hyperbole Fri 26 Oct 2012 - 11:20

Kingshu wrote:I don't think winning % count for much.

Take Ulster, H-cup winners and last years finalists, in between time we hit a slump and had a number of poor years (still won most of the home games mind) but that has given them a lower winning %

I don't think a teams overall winning % relates to current performance.

I also don't think stats going back to 1995 give an indicaton to current league strengths, maybe overall since 1995.

So I don't think you can say,
"My findings are that English sides deserve their 6 places because they have 6 sides with 60% plus win ratio. "

If you are wanting to compare Leauges to see if any league deserves more places than another, you would need to use a coefficient.

Uefa use the last 5 years for thier League coefficient, so I guess the last 5 years European results would be a good start.

Winning % from 1995 means nothing in terms of a leagues strength, a coefficient using the last 5 years results may convince me

I have to agree with this. Imagine it UEFA took the same approach as the original poster here. Nottingham Forest and Aston Villa must have magnificent records in the European Cup if we looked at their records but it tells us absolutely nothing about contemporary English football in Europe. The past five years results should really be the best indicators if you want to have a real point here and add something valid to the argument. Otherwise the OP has turned this into another of his preoccupations with Connacht and the Pro12.

I say this as an Ulster fan whose side's record in the past five-six years, bar last year might be best described as horrific.

by Bathman_in_London Fri 26 Oct 2012 - 11:20

Well I think its interesting, shows how strong Munster have been historically.

A few quirks there, Cardiff and the Scarlets are using their pre-regions figures and the other 2 are not. I wonder if that was changed whether the % wins would be closer?

Not wanting to get drawn into a debate about Ap vs Rabo, but in fact Bath for example have better stats by not being in the HC each year. The 60% win ratio is clearly bolstered by the win in 1998 and several good seasons when we made the quarters etc. However, when we have being going through low patches (which has been pretty much since 1998!) we havent qualified for the HC and so therefore our stats stay the same, as we havent played to be able to win/lose.

I would guess that only Leicester have been in the HC ever year and so they are the only english team which can accurately be compared to Munster, Leinster etc?

by AsLongAsBut100ofUs Fri 26 Oct 2012 - 11:47

The stats are interesting by must be taken in context - I'd be interested to see the trajectory of club success over the life of the Heino to date? That would be a more useful indicator of the levels of progress being made?

by beshocked Fri 26 Oct 2012 - 11:51

Red stag I might go.

Kingshu and Hookisms I agree but collating the results in the last 5 years is not something I feel like doing! That would take a long time if I had to do them all.

Maybe a fan from each side does their own?

by Kingshu Fri 26 Oct 2012 - 13:28

For leagues could add up ERC clubs ranking points for each team (last 4 years european performance) , and divide by number of teams in the in leauge, this would give a rough co-efficient.

Pro 12 =12.91
French league = 9.57
English League = 8.67

This would be a better indicator of league strenght, based on European competation, than winning %, basically average erc points per league.

by ScarletSpiderman Fri 26 Oct 2012 - 14:24

Kingshu - that is a bit harsh on the Jeff, seeing as London Welsh have never been in european competitions before.

by Funkingfullback Fri 26 Oct 2012 - 14:24

Last 5 years heineken cup results (in order of highest win percentage)

TEAM P W D L win %
Leinster 41 31 2 8 75.6097561
munster 38 28 0 10 73.68421053
toulouse 40 28 1 11 70
Cardiff 34 23 1 10 67.64705882
wasps 18 12 0 6 66.66666667
Northampton 22 14 0 8 63.63636364
biarritz 34 21 0 13 61.76470588
clermont 33 20 0 13 60.60606061
Gloucester 25 15 0 10 60
Perpignan 27 16 1 10 59.25925926
leicester 34 20 2 12 58.82352941
Stade Français 19 11 0 8 57.89473684
saracens 21 12 0 9 57.14285714
toulon 7 4 0 3 57.14285714
Ospreys 33 18 2 13 54.54545455
Ulster 34 18 1 15 52.94117647
bristol 6 3 0 3 50
Sale 12 6 0 6 50
London Irish 26 12 1 13 46.15384615
edinburgh 32 14 0 18 43.75
glasgow 30 12 1 17 40
Scarlets 30 11 1 18 36.66666667
Harlequins 25 9 1 15 36
bath 25 9 1 16 36
castres 18 5 0 13 27.77777778
racing metro 12 3 0 9 25
Treviso 30 5 1 24 16.66666667
Bourgoin 6 1 0 5 16.66666667
Montauban 6 1 0 5 16.66666667
Montpellier 6 1 2 3 16.66666667
connacht 6 1 0 5 16.66666667
Dragons 18 2 0 16 11.11111111
aironi 12 1 0 11 8.333333333
viadanna 12 0 0 6 0
calvisano 6 0 0 6 0
Brive 6 0 0 6 0

by Kingshu Fri 26 Oct 2012 - 14:28

ScarletSpiderman wrote:Kingshu - that is a bit harsh on the Jeff, seeing as London Welsh have never been in european competitions before.

Neither have Zebre

by ScarletSpiderman Fri 26 Oct 2012 - 14:31

So going by those figures the teams who should be in the HEC are

Leinster
munster
toulouse
Cardiff
wasps
Northampton
biarritz
clermont
Gloucester
Perpignan
leicester
Stade Français
saracens
toulon
Ospreys
Ulster
bristol
Sale
London Irish
edinburgh

And the following are not worthy to be in the HEC are

glasgow,
Scarlets,
Harlequins,
bath,
castres,
racing metro,
Treviso,
Bourgoin
Montauban,
Montpellier,
connacht,
Dragons,
aironi,
Brive

by ScarletSpiderman Fri 26 Oct 2012 - 14:33

Kingshu wrote:
ScarletSpiderman wrote:Kingshu - that is a bit harsh on the Jeff, seeing as London Welsh have never been in european competitions before.

Neither have Zebre

Good call, I assumed they were given Aironi's ranking points (0pts).

by HERSH Fri 26 Oct 2012 - 14:33

Bristol

by ScarletSpiderman Fri 26 Oct 2012 - 14:35

HERSH wrote:Bristol

You can laugh they are better than Bath (and a heap of other teams cough cough)

by broadlandboy Fri 26 Oct 2012 - 14:35

So from Funkingfullback's top 20
8 English
6 Rabo
6 French

by ScarletSpiderman Fri 26 Oct 2012 - 14:41

broadlandboy wrote:So from Funkingfullback's top 20
8 English
6 Rabo
6 French

Top 14 6 Teams
Toulouse
Biarritz
Clermont
Perpignan
Stade Français
Toulon

Rabo Pro12 6 Teams
Leinster
Munster
Cardiff
Ospreys
Ulster
Edinburgh

Jeff 7 Teams
Wasps
Northampton
Gloucester
Leicester
Saracens
Sale
London Irish

Championship 1 Team
Bristol

by Kingshu Fri 26 Oct 2012 - 14:44

http://www.eurorugby.com/index.php

these ones seam to have a fairly good ranking system based on European and league form
average (Had to leave out one from each league as no Zebre, or London Welsh)
French 61.53
Pro 12 56.833
English 55.08

by broadlandboy Fri 26 Oct 2012 - 14:45

They are still English

by Morgannwg Fri 26 Oct 2012 - 17:43

beshocked wrote:Awww kingshu that's so sweet of you to put down a comment just to make me feel better.

I just don't think too many Pro12 fans are pleased with the findings. Can't blame them to be honest.

The misery of rugby AKA Saracens getting smashed (like they did against Clermont) tends to be the highlight for the Rabo's.

by beshocked Mon 29 Oct 2012 - 8:41

Morgannwg wrote:
beshocked wrote:Awww kingshu that's so sweet of you to put down a comment just to make me feel better.

I just don't think too many Pro12 fans are pleased with the findings. Can't blame them to be honest.

The misery of rugby AKA Saracens getting smashed (like they did against Clermont) tends to be the highlight for the Rabo's.

I agree it must be a Rabo highlight because you have none of your own vs Sarries.

Sorry to break this to you but Clermont aren't a Rabo side. Leinster are though. Saracens do find it difficult against the two best sides in Europe unsurprisingly.

by maestegmafia Mon 29 Oct 2012 - 12:24

Not very current is it ...

If it was over the last decade at least or better five years it would show a current and more accurate figure of the state of rugby in Europe.

Where are the french and italian figures?

by beshocked Mon 29 Oct 2012 - 12:33

Maestegmafia look at funking full back's figures.

by maestegmafia Mon 29 Oct 2012 - 12:34

Cheers BS

by Kingshu Mon 29 Oct 2012 - 12:41

Maestegmafia, I put in an earlier post a roughly fairer way to compare Leagues than winning %

It only uses last 4 years European record,

For leagues add up ERC clubs ranking points for each team (last 4 years european performance) , and divide by number of teams in the leauge, this would give a rough co-efficient.

Pro 12 =12.91
French league = 9.57
English League = 8.67

This would be a better indicator of league strenght, based on European competation, than winning %.
Basically average ERC points per league.

Its not perfect, but is the best rough indicator anyone has come up with so far.

by maestegmafia Mon 29 Oct 2012 - 12:46

Leinster
munster
toulouse
Cardiff
wasps
Northampton
biarritz
clermont
Gloucester
Perpignan
leicester
Stade Français
saracens
toulon
Ospreys
Ulster
Sale
London Irish
edinburgh

Just add Treviso minus Bristol and you have a great HEC.

Pool 1
Leinster
Wasps
Perpignan
Tigers

Pool 2
Munster
Saints
Stade Francais
Edinburgh

Pool 3
Toulouse
Gloucester
Ulster
biarritz

Pool 4
Toulon
Cardiff
Sale
London Irish

Pool 5
clermont
Saracens
Treviso
Ospreys

by ScarletSpiderman Mon 29 Oct 2012 - 12:46

Kingshu - do that for nations and suddenly the rabo nations all look really poor (bar Ireland).

by SecretFly Mon 29 Oct 2012 - 12:49

The stats tell me England have more bloody sides than us Irish!!! I think we should pull out of Europe as protest Wink

That'll learn 'em!

by Jimpy Mon 29 Oct 2012 - 12:54

Take Connacht with you please, apparently they're a load of rubbish.

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