My Welsh Team for the Argentina game if I was the coach...

by Cellan1987 Fri 26 Oct 2012, 20:17

15: Halfpenny
14: Cuthbert
13: J Davies
12: Beck
11: North
10: Biggar
9: Gareth Davies
8: Faletau
7: Tipuric
6: Warburton
5: I Evans
4: AW Jones
3: Jarvis
2: Rees
1: Paul James

by thebluesmancometh Fri 26 Oct 2012, 20:25

If Beck wasn't in there I'd go with that thumbsup

by TycroesOsprey Fri 26 Oct 2012, 20:49

1. James
2. Hibbard
3. Adam
4. Ian Evans
5. AWJ
6. Warburton (c)
7. Tipuric
8. Faletau
9. Phillips
10. Biggar
11. North
12. Roberts
13. JD
14. Cuthbert
15. Halfpenny

16. Gethin
17. Rees
18. Lee
19. Ryan
20. Webb
21. Hook
22. Liam Williams

by Morgannwg Fri 26 Oct 2012, 21:01

1. James
2. Hibbard
3. Jarvis
4. Charteris
5. AWJ
6. Jones
7. Warburton (c)
8. Faletau
9. Phillips
10. Priestland
11. North
12. Roberts
13. JD
14. Cuthbert
15. Halfpenny

16. Gethin
17. Rees
18. Lee
19. Evans
20. Williams
21. Biggar
22. Liam Williams

Form picks, well mostly.

by thebluesmancometh Fri 26 Oct 2012, 21:24

RP Morg, even after that performance?? He looks like his confidence is shot!!!

I'd prefer to see...

Andrews
Hibbard
Jarvis
AWJ
Davies
Jones
Tipuric
Falatau
Evans
Biggar
North
Roberts
Davies
Cuthbert
1/2p

by Morgannwg Fri 26 Oct 2012, 21:27

I didn't see the game. It's probably what Wales will go for, the settled combo. I'd rather that than throw Biggar in, he'll just mess it up with an intercept pass somewhere. Preferably, he should come off the bench in a couple games before being considered a starter.

Why on earth have you selected Andrews at LH when we have Jenkins and James? (and Bevington thereabouts).

by majesticimperialman Fri 26 Oct 2012, 21:32

Cellan1987 wrote:15: Halfpenny
14: Cuthbert
13: J Davies
12: Beck
11: Cuthbert
10: Biggar
9: Gareth Davies
8: Faletau
7: Tipuric
6: Warburton
5: I Evans
4: AW Jones
3: Jarvis
2: Rees

Is there 2 cuthberts playing for Wales, 11..14? or is it a typo error?
1: Paul James

by thebluesmancometh Fri 26 Oct 2012, 21:36

Bevington!!!! Thanks mate thats the name that was on my tongue!!!

The idea is to give the younger boys some tough opposition come scrum time that can only last 60 mins!!

Biggar was excellent in the leicester game (intercept aside) and has been all season (ish) but RP was once again pathetic!! You might have a point though when entering him slowly so therefore Hook at 10.

by maestegmafia Fri 26 Oct 2012, 21:58

I'd go with

Gethin
Rees
Jarvis
AwJ
Charteris
Ryan
Tipuric
Faletau
Phillips
Priestland
Cuthbert
Beck
Davies
North
Halfpenny

James
Hibbard
Evans
Shingler
Knoyle
Hook
Williams

by TycroesOsprey Fri 26 Oct 2012, 22:02

Having just seen that Adam is out I guess its going to be Jarvis. Although Samson is I think the long awaited successor to Adam so you never know, if he goes to Poland and tears up trees he could get in.

by maestegmafia Fri 26 Oct 2012, 22:17

He played well again tonight, good coaching and he could be a gem.

by Scrumdown Fri 26 Oct 2012, 23:26

A far superior team to those I've seen would be the following:

15. Liam Williams (halfpenny has looked vulnerable under the high ball)
14. Alex Cuthbert
13. George North (Jon Davies inability to pass means we are not seeing enough of North)
12. Jamie Roberts (will be more effective with north alongside him drawing the attention of defenders)
11. Leigh halfpenny
10. Rhys Priestland (criticism unwarrented, passing ability is superior to biggar and can bring both north and roberts into the game)
9. Rhodri Williams (currently playing for lllandovery but a future Lion)
8. Toby faletau
7. Sam Warburton (some people have short memories)
6. Ryan jones
5. Ian Evans
4. Alun wyn jones
3. Samson lee (adam jones long term replacement)
2. Ken owens (the only hooker who can throw into lineout)
1. Gethin Jenkins

by Cellan1987 Fri 26 Oct 2012, 23:58

majesticimperialman wrote:
Cellan1987 wrote:15: Halfpenny
14: Cuthbert
13: J Davies
12: Beck
11: Cuthbert
10: Biggar
9: Gareth Davies
8: Faletau
7: Tipuric
6: Warburton
5: I Evans
4: AW Jones
3: Jarvis
2: Rees

Is there 2 cuthberts playing for Wales, 11..14? or is it a typo error?
1: Paul James

If only... typo!

by glamorganalun Sat 27 Oct 2012, 00:42

One Cuthbert has gone North

'd go with

James
Hibbard
Jarvis
AwJ
Evans
Ryan
Tipuric
Faletau
Phillips
Hook
Cuthbert
Roberts
Davies/Williams if Davies is not fit
North
Halfpenny

by maestegmafia Sat 27 Oct 2012, 08:52

Very osprey heavy pack their glam...!

by thebluesmancometh Sat 27 Oct 2012, 10:58

MM

The only pack competitive this seasons has been the O's in all fairness, all other regions are getting demolished up front!!!

by bedfordwelsh Sat 27 Oct 2012, 11:22

Can someone please explain to me how, if Warburton isn't playing well enough to be considered at No7 (which he isn't) then how is he good enough to play out of position at No6?

Or are we in danger of going down the James Hook route of shoe horning him into the team at any cost?

by bedfordwelsh Sat 27 Oct 2012, 11:26

Also for the record this is the team I would put out

James
Owens
Jarvis or Lee but please not Andrews
Charteris
Evans
Jones (c) (but hope Shingler gets some game time)
Faletau
Tipuric

Phillips
Biggar

North
Roberts
Davies
Cuthbert

Halfpenny

by maestegmafia Sat 27 Oct 2012, 11:28

bedfordwelsh wrote:Can someone please explain to me how, if Warburton isn't playing well enough to be considered at No7 (which he isn't) then how is he good enough to play out of position at No6?

To be fair on Warburton the few times I have seen him this season he has been very good. The dragons game he, Toby and lyds were awesome.

He has had too many injuries recently.

I would pick Warburton or Tipuric, not both. Shingler and Jones are playing better than him at the moment.

Though to be honest, when out of the regions a good number of this squad show different and better form for Wales.

Good work by Howley and Edwards will make a big difference.

by bedfordwelsh Sat 27 Oct 2012, 11:30

Morning Maes,

I agree its either him or Tips not both which is why I can't understand so many picking him at No6 if he's not good enough ast mo to play 7.

by thebluesmancometh Sat 27 Oct 2012, 11:43

bedford

It makes sense in context, Robinson did the same thing V australia in Australia, he picked 2 fetchers and a ball carrier in the back row and they won, we didn't.

Also despite Tipuric being far superior to Warbs at the minute Warbs is still the captain, and is a quality player who throves on the int stage. With Lydiate out anyone else there would be untried and untested (except Jones) so would represent another risk (like we need more at the minute)

The point is Argys breakdown work is far more SA than NZ, they throw numbers at the breakdown and try to dominate it, 2 fetchers might help counter that as the breakdown IMO is where we have little dominance over anyone, let alone the monsters of Argentina.

by bedfordwelsh Sat 27 Oct 2012, 11:46

Blues,

I just think we have to play our best players in their best position and for me that is No7 for Warburton

by ChequeredJersey Sat 27 Oct 2012, 11:51

I'm not Welsh, but from an outsider's perspective:

Halfpenny (k)
Cuthbert
Davies
Roberts
North
Priestland
Peel/Davies
Jones (c)
Tipuric
Shingler
Charteris
Evans
Lee
Rees
Gill

James, Owens, Jarvis, AWJ, Warburton, Davies/Phillips, Biggar, Williams

by thebluesmancometh Sat 27 Oct 2012, 11:52

Bedford

But IMO tipuric is a far better option at present, infact I'd say Navidi is a better option at present than Warbs at 7!!

When it comes to Int rugby we know Warbs can provide, and it looks like he isn't interested at the blues (who is?) but you can't ignore Tips club form it is top class!!!

by thebluesmancometh Sat 27 Oct 2012, 11:55

Jones (c)
Tipuric
Shingler
Charteris
Evans
Lee
Rees
Gill

CJ that is a very passive pack!!! Lightweight and pretty non existant in brains!! Charteris is weak minded at the best of times and Evans is one step from a red most of the time, both won't work, plus AWJ is outplaying both.

Gill isn't starting at present is he? and Rees is being outplayed by Hibbard around the park, Lee is still in nappies!!

by maestegmafia Sat 27 Oct 2012, 12:01

ChequeredJersey wrote:I'm not Welsh, but from an outsider's perspective:

Halfpenny (k)
Cuthbert
Davies
Roberts
North
Priestland
Peel/Davies
Jones (c)
Tipuric
Shingler
Charteris
Evans
Lee
Rees
Gill

James, Owens, Jarvis, AWJ, Warburton, Davies/Phillips, Biggar, Williams

Your input will always give contrast and unobjective interest, thanks for taking the time to give us your opinions.

by maestegmafia Sat 27 Oct 2012, 12:04

bedfordwelsh wrote:Morning Maes,

I agree its either him or Tips not both which is why I can't understand so many picking him at No6 if he's not good enough ast mo to play 7.

Absolutely.

I am sure though that he will be given time and opportunity to prove his best, he has, as I said, shown his best a few times for blues. He needs to do so more often.

Luckily we have replacements and depth in our squad.

by bedfordwelsh Sat 27 Oct 2012, 12:08

thebluesmancometh wrote:Bedford

But IMO tipuric is a far better option at present, infact I'd say Navidi is a better option at present than Warbs at 7!!

When it comes to Int rugby we know Warbs can provide, and it looks like he isn't interested at the blues (who is?) but you can't ignore Tips club form it is top class!!!

Blues,

I agree, what I meant is tha Sams best position is at No7 and if he is currently not on good enough form to play there then lets not go shoe horning him into 6 just to get him on the field

by maestegmafia Sat 27 Oct 2012, 12:31

bedfordwelsh wrote:
thebluesmancometh wrote:Bedford

But IMO tipuric is a far better option at present, infact I'd say Navidi is a better option at present than Warbs at 7!!

When it comes to Int rugby we know Warbs can provide, and it looks like he isn't interested at the blues (who is?) but you can't ignore Tips club form it is top class!!!

Blues,

I agree, what I meant is tha Sams best position is at No7 and if he is currently not on good enough form to play there then lets not go shoe horning him into 6 just to get him on the field

Certainly not when Shingler and Ryan are playing so well

by ChequeredJersey Sat 27 Oct 2012, 12:49

thebluesmancometh wrote:Jones (c)
Tipuric
Shingler
Charteris
Evans
Lee
Rees
Gill

CJ that is a very passive pack!!! Lightweight and pretty non existant in brains!! Charteris is weak minded at the best of times and Evans is one step from a red most of the time, both won't work, plus AWJ is outplaying both.

Gill isn't starting at present is he? and Rees is being outplayed by Hibbard around the park, Lee is still in nappies!!

You are probably right, but when I've watched, AWJ hasn't impressed me that much for Wales. I agree it looks a little lightweight, but I don't know a lot about your locks tbh. Gill is sharing duties with Vunipola but is on form and IMO playing better in the scrums than James at this moment in time, either would do Wales proud at LH though, I'm going to rate them because I see a lot more of them than I do of the props playing in Wales as I mostly watch AP and HEC and Amlin rugby so my view is always going to be based on fewer games than yours

by Morgannwg Sat 27 Oct 2012, 12:52

Gill isn't in the squad as far as I know. Would have rathered him than Bevington though. A Welsh team really needs to snap up Rhys Gill.

by maestegmafia Sat 27 Oct 2012, 12:55

Agreed but Bev's is playing well this year. He and Jarvis have improved immeasurably.

Gill has been injured, is still trying to gain fitness. Looks good to me, but is subbing for Saries behind the Tongan kid.

by bedfordwelsh Sat 27 Oct 2012, 13:12

Wasn't Gill linked with the Blues pre-season to replace Jenkins?

by maestegmafia Sat 27 Oct 2012, 13:43

I heard rumours too...!

The blues really should have really snapped him up and Delve given the chance.

Shame but we can't compete with the wages abroad

by thebluesmancometh Sat 27 Oct 2012, 15:03

I heard Gill wasn't asking for a fortune either!!!

Mind you from what Delve and his dad said they were all but throwing themselves at the Blues who weren't interested!!

I like Gill, you know what you get from him, he's solid and does his job nicely. Not sure about an injury or fitness, I thought he was just 2nd choice at the minute.

CJ

Your right I think AWJ blends in a bit more for Wales, at the O's he makes an obvious impact but I just get the feeling this season he's kicked on again, and Evans is making regular brain fart type mistakes!!

I get the point about Sam I really do but it wouldn't kill us to play 2 fetchers and see how it works, it isn't going badly for the Blues despite a backpedalling tight 5!!!
Shinglars started very well but has slowed recently against better opposition, I'm not sure I would want him in an Argie arm wrestle without a bit more exposure at the top level.

Jones is mr dependable, and IMO should probably start at 8 (Falatau needs a bit of a shake up, not through playing badly but through trying to carry the Dragons) maybe Falatau to come on for 20 to open the game up a bit.

I would personally go with Warbs Jones Tipuric (6,8,7) But I can see the point that that would be lightweight in an Argie arm wrestle too. But then So would any option we put out at present.

I'm talking myself into and out of the Warbs at 6 debate, I'm just not sure until I saw if it worked or not!

by maestegmafia Sat 27 Oct 2012, 15:05

The Blues haven't been overly smart with who they did and didn't try to sign over the last few years. SNK and DP being the worst exampls.

by thebluesmancometh Sat 27 Oct 2012, 15:08

In fairness to DP he had his moments... when the Blues were totally oputplayed he kept the game tight with the boot, and he hid ery nicely out on the wing!!

Noone can be lumped into SKN's category though, especially the denial that he would come good if we just kept with him for a season and a half...

I'd say the Blues have been absolutely crazy with their in's and out's for about 3/4 seasons now!!!

by thebluesmancometh Sat 27 Oct 2012, 15:09

But MM thats an issue I could bleat on about all day and night (well another issue)

by maestegmafia Sat 27 Oct 2012, 15:11

thebluesmancometh wrote:But MM thats an issue I could bleat on about all day and night (well another issue)

Ha ha ha...!

You have quite a list of those, mind you we all have certain peeves.

by thebluesmancometh Sat 27 Oct 2012, 15:15

I mean who need Yapp and Rees when we have Hobbs and Williams!!!

Who is the genius who decided our scrum was fine and our 9 options good enough to let go 2 experienced former internationals who played their nuts off for the club!!!

Who decided that a strong ball carrier who was Cardiff born and bred and wanted to show out for his region was unnecesary and we didn't need him.

Who decided the Robinson brothers who were Cardiff RFC through and through could be replaced by no mark NWQ players.

Who decided to rush out and buy romanian props to bolster our squad.

Who decides these things... I WOULD LOVE TO KNOW!!!

and breathe...

by maestegmafia Sat 27 Oct 2012, 15:18

We all would.

by thebluesmancometh Sat 27 Oct 2012, 15:21

I mean Rees would offer near int quality all year round, Yapp would give you a strong clubman all year round, insted Williams and Andrews give you poor poor standards and you lose them to Wales training camps (god knows how or why)

by glamorganalun Sat 27 Oct 2012, 16:10

maestegmafia wrote:Very osprey heavy pack their glam...!

Agree, remember 2008 game at Twickers only M Williams in the pack was non an Ospreys forward and I Evans was on the bench. Only Mark Jones in the back was non Ospreys but times have changed, player changed clubs, retired and some went AWOL (Henson).

by Seagultaf Sun 28 Oct 2012, 08:57

The Blues are suffering from the ecconomic restraints placed upon them. The £3.5M playing budget is insufficient if you expect a competitive side in both Rabo and Heineken. All of the other sides in these competitions have a bigger playing budget.

Cardiff have lost; Melon, Yapp, Rhys Thomas, Tito, Deiniol Jones, Rush and Molitika from their pack. Any side would miss those players!

The Scarlets are also suffering in trying to develop a squad within the playing budget and the Dragons have budget significantly below the limit. Only the Ospreys who have a dispensation to exceed the budget have a sufficiently strong pack. and they are not as strong as they were.

If the WRU and Roger Lewis in particular don't pull their fingers our and increase the funding to the Professional game, then rugby in Wales will become semi pro and act as feeders for French and English clubs. This will also have a significant detrimental effect on the Wales side.

by Scrumdown Sun 28 Oct 2012, 12:21

Seagultaf wrote:The Blues are suffering from the ecconomic restraints placed upon them. The £3.5M playing budget is insufficient if you expect a competitive side in both Rabo and Heineken. All of the other sides in these competitions have a bigger playing budget.

Cardiff have lost; Melon, Yapp, Rhys Thomas, Tito, Deiniol Jones, Rush and Molitika from their pack. Any side would miss those players!

The Scarlets are also suffering in trying to develop a squad within the playing budget and the Dragons have budget significantly below the limit. Only the Ospreys who have a dispensation to exceed the budget have a sufficiently strong pack. and they are not as strong as they were.

If the WRU and Roger Lewis in particular don't pull their fingers our and increase the funding to the Professional game, then rugby in Wales will become semi pro and act as feeders for French and English clubs. This will also have a significant detrimental effect on the Wales side.

It is the regions who need to pull their finger out, mainly the administrators and the benefactors. Throwing more money at self appointed directors and decision makers such as peter thomas and the rest would definitely be a case of throwing good money after poor mangement - 9 years of incompetence should not be rewarded with additional funding!

Also, where is this money going to come from, presumably from reduced funding to the community game as the majority of the WRU record turnover has been spent leaving a profit of just over a million.

by maestegmafia Sun 28 Oct 2012, 19:50

Scrumdown wrote:
Seagultaf wrote:The Blues are suffering from the ecconomic restraints placed upon them. The £3.5M playing budget is insufficient if you expect a competitive side in both Rabo and Heineken. All of the other sides in these competitions have a bigger playing budget.

Cardiff have lost; Melon, Yapp, Rhys Thomas, Tito, Deiniol Jones, Rush and Molitika from their pack. Any side would miss those players!

The Scarlets are also suffering in trying to develop a squad within the playing budget and the Dragons have budget significantly below the limit. Only the Ospreys who have a dispensation to exceed the budget have a sufficiently strong pack. and they are not as strong as they were.

If the WRU and Roger Lewis in particular don't pull their fingers our and increase the funding to the Professional game, then rugby in Wales will become semi pro and act as feeders for French and English clubs. This will also have a significant detrimental effect on the Wales side.

It is the regions who need to pull their finger out, mainly the administrators and the benefactors. Throwing more money at self appointed directors and decision makers such as peter thomas and the rest would definitely be a case of throwing good money after poor mangement - 9 years of incompetence should not be rewarded with additional funding!

Also, where is this money going to come from, presumably from reduced funding to the community game as the majority of the WRU record turnover has been spent leaving a profit of just over a million.

It has to be remembered that the £3.5m salary cap was self imposed by the regions.

by wayne Sun 28 Oct 2012, 20:23

I know this will not be agreed to, but why do the Dragons get £1.55 million for player release to the Welsh International Squad when they supply so few players to it. The acadamies have now been going under the auspices of the WRU for about 5 years, I believe give it another 2 or 3 years and at the end of each season this money should be shared by the number of players each supplies in total on a sliding scale as they are selected to a) the team b) the squad. This might get all of the regions to really invest in youth for their own and in the national interest

by glamorganalun Sun 28 Oct 2012, 20:44

To some degree I agree some teams supply more players than others and should get more of the available cash it will encourage the regions to employ more Welsh players but what will happen if we had the situation in 2008 where the Ospreys supplied 13 players starting and I Evans on the bench, do they get 14/22 of all the money i.e., the Dragons get sod all in this senario?

by wayne Sun 28 Oct 2012, 20:58

glamorganalun wrote:To some degree I agree some teams supply more players than others and should get more of the available cash it will encourage the regions to employ more Welsh players but what will happen if we had the situation in 2008 where the Ospreys supplied 13 players starting and I Evans on the bench, do they get 14/22 of all the money i.e., the Dragons get sod all in this senario?

Alun that was one match, we play 10 or 11 games a season, when that happened the Acadamies were not under the auspices of the WRU, this could be set up to commence after the 2015 WC, it is the general feeling on our website (Ospreys) that some of our poor performances in the HC is down to the over exaggeration of the amount of time our players are with Team Wales we should be properly recompensed for this time. I notice for this series of AIs the Scarlets have the most players, I would have no problem with them getting the most money.

by maestegmafia Mon 29 Oct 2012, 08:23

Wales played 17 games last year

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