Fellow Dragons Fans - Is it time for Edwards to go?

I have siad before that I was never overly keen on Edwards' appoitment and think we should have pushed put out to get Kingsley in there. So that said is it now time for Edwards to go, is he out of his depth?

I know he has limited resources financially and squad depth wise but I don't think he is getting the best out of them. In the past we have seen Faletau and Lydiate drag the rest of the squad upto somewhere near their levels but now Faleatu especially seems to be going back down to their standards, even Lewis Evans, who I rate highly has had a poor season.

I like our summer signings of Prydie Evans and Nimmo but some of the selections seem very strange. Our defence has been very poor, in fact has been since Charvis left and whilst RP was never a huge fortress teams knew that when they came there they had to earn the win and the game was never a gimme. In fact when the top teams came there it was the 'lets knock them off their perch' mentality that seen us beat many bigger and better teams than us, despite Ulster being in top form at the moment it was painful watching them stroll to that win in the end.

I watched last night and the main thing I noticed was how poorly organised they were. In attack there was nothing other than to catch the ball standing still and make 1 yard before going to ground. defensively they were just dreadful. There was no urgency, no speed, all the tackles were around the shoulders instead of bringing the man down, they fell off tackles too easily and there was no aggression at all.

I definitely think its time for a change. Not sure if Kingsley is the man.

What is noticeable is that we seem to want to employ Welsh coaches all the time. I want as many Welsh players playing but couldn't care less where the coach came from as long as he has good. Irish provinces have benefited hugely with SH coaches and I think we should look there too.

Doc,

Could we afford anyone other than a Welsh coach, for that matter could we even afford Kingsley?

I think so. Kingsley and some Russian front 5 recruitments would be nice (as they won't pick any from Cross Keys before anyone jumps on me).

Morg,

Thats my line of thought, get him to bring a couple of those narly front and second rowers.

Yep. It's not like they'd be here forever, just a stop gap! We aren't far off challenging for the Amlin latter stages and Edwards threw the towel in from the first game. Somebody needs to come in and target that silverware.

I would say no.

Dragons have improved their squad but are suffering from injuries, they have some incredibly young star players.

Build strength and depth over two seasons, with the players coming through Dragons will be a good team.

Very very unlucky against a good Bayonne team last weekend.

doctornickolas wrote:I watched last night and the main thing I noticed was how poorly organised they were. In attack there was nothing other than to catch the ball standing still and make 1 yard before going to ground. defensively they were just dreadful. There was no urgency, no speed, all the tackles were around the shoulders instead of bringing the man down, they fell off tackles too easily and there was no aggression at all.

I definitely think its time for a change. Not sure if Kingsley is the man.

What is noticeable is that we seem to want to employ Welsh coaches all the time. I want as many Welsh players playing but couldn't care less where the coach came from as long as he has good. Irish provinces have benefited hugely with SH coaches and I think we should look there too.

The best foreign coaches and players will go where they can earn the most money which is why it is vital that wales produces its own coaches and players. Kingsley Jones and Lyn Jones would be my choice.

But Maes, is Edwards good enough to get the best out of these youngsters. I am seriously doubting he is.

Like Morg said he threw towel in even before the Wasps game with his selection.

Edwards is useless. The post about his tactics (or lack of them) is spot on. I said after Bayonne that people are lining Tuilagi up constantly, as they know he's getting the ball. I would've got rid of him after the end to last season, but we've stuck with him and found our season over by November. That's disgraceful. I think there is an attitude problem in our players, but I think that we need a hard nosed coach to change that. Get them out of flipping Nandos and get them putting things right. I think Kingsley would be my choice. A he's local and B I think he'd actually utilise the Premiership players at his disposal.

I used to get such a buzz watching my region, as though we wouldn't be world beaters, at least we'd show some character. Going to RP at the minute is generally hard work nowadays.

What are the realistic options though?

If Darren Edwards was fired, which I don't necesarily think will turn the Dragons fortunes, who could fill the boots?

Its a tough call but you have to put things into perspective.

1/ It isn't just Dragons who are getting thumped regularly at home theses days, Blues, Scarlets and O's have all been beaten comprehensively by average opposition at home. (this isnt another regional rant I promise)

2/ The prem is semi pro and therefore offers little to work with in terms of actual quality, it exists as a warming station for academy prospects.

3/ That Dragons squad is one of the weakest Ive seen, Toby and Dan aside there is little more than prem quality in Evans, Evans, Prydie (although could get better)

4/ The kids being produced out of the academy are hardly setting the world alight especially up front

5/ He has no money to work with so the strength of the Dragons is the weakest element of club rugby in Wales (prem selection)

All that said it kind of highlights how good a job Turner did in reality doesn't it!

Yes it does highlight what a job Tommy did. The only reason he lost his Jon was because of Andy Bowell in reality too. Why hasn't Andy Bowell started on Darren Edwards yet?

I know nothing changes, but a new man has to come in. Seeing Edwards in interviews annoys me, as he looks like a little lost puppy.

When Edwards was appointed he seemed to be a breath of fresh air with his first half season in charge and we played some vry good stuff.

However I do not believe he has the respect of the players anymore. He is not getting the best out of what is a admittedly a below average set of players. However look at Lyn Jones at London Welsh. Look at that Gregg Woods and Mark Ring did with Cross Keys in the B & I cup. I believe we need a coach that can command respect, inspire the players and regain that siege mentality that we need back at RP. My preferrred choice would be lyn jones however i dont feel we could afford him. If not Greg Woods and Ringo or Dale Mcintosh for me

I think that maybe it's time for a change as we seem to have gone backwards since he came in. Remember the euphoria when he first came in? We started playing a good 'brand' of rugby and we all seemed chuffed, then it's just gone downhill since.

However, remember that choosing a non-welsh coach may not be as easy as it seems. E.g. The Dragons have to run any signings they make past the WRU. They can't just go and buy player 'x'. I'm sure I read somewhere that Edwards tried to get a certain player but the WRU blocked it in some way. I imagine the same would be the case for coaches too?

Is this the case at all regions or just the dragons due to the 50% ownership? Or have I just impaired the whole thing?!

Off at a tangent maybe, but could this be the year we finish above the Blues in the league? Not sure I'd want to see us in the HC (how bad is that from a fans perspective, not wanting to see us in the top league?!) but no reason we can't do better than the Blues this year with some of the performances I've seen from them so far.

Risca = I'm with you on the nandos comment, It seems to be their second home. They'd be better off spending their time on the training paddock. On a new coaching front the chief? Mike rayer doing a good job at bedford, where is Jason foster coaching these days ?( seemed respected figure down Rodney parade) but an unknown sh coach might be a risk worth taking (someone similar to Chris Stirling ex Cornish pirates coach) But agree with everyone here options are limited.

griff i think the blues can take more out of their performance against leinster tonight than we can from ours aganst ulster...

sadly i see us finishing in 11th and its no more than we deserve on curret performances

Completely disagre with you there Gavin. We were both stuffed, but we competed with Ulster for 60mins, even the Ulster fans admit that, whereas the Blues were done over in 20 minutes. Leinster just took their foot off the pedal.

Both gash, but different IMO.

Jason Forster was/is coaching at Chippenham. Though that aren't big shakes at all, he is highly thought of there, I've read.

Still at least our players are allowed out partying in fancy dress tonight. They've earned it, bless them.

I take no comfort from the Blues being toilet too, as they still beat us at home. Just shows what a shower we are.

Griff wrote:Completely disagre with you there Gavin. We were both stuffed, but we competed with Ulster for 60mins, even the Ulster fans admit that

Up until Trimble's intercept the result was still in the balance. It was a very loose game and I think we just had more experience and a bit more firepower and thus Dragons came of worse in a game where both sides made a lot of errors.

Ulster scored one from a forward pass, one from a charge down and one from an intercept. Payne's came when the game was over and the Dragons heads had dropped. Sometimes these things just happen and its just not your night.

The result is pretty painful I'm sure but I don't think there was a 25 point difference between the sides last night and it was much more competitive than the scoreline suggests.

Wasn't Forster up at Doncaster with Howells a few seasons back.

For me the choice is easy - Kingsley Jones, but I doubt we could afford him. The likes of Rayer, Chief and RIngo could all be worth a shot, least they should be able to command respect of the players

You can't blame the coach sorry. He is doing the best he can, you have Faletau, Lydiate and maybe one day Steffan Jones could be world class, and a lot of rubbish around them. Most of the Dragons players are no better than Premiership standard but they are lucky enough to be professional.

Bedford Welsh has a great point though, Dale Mcintosh might be a good answer for the Dragons, at least he'd knock some pride and guts into them.

Shifty wrote:You can't blame the coach sorry. He is doing the best he can, you have Faletau, Lydiate and maybe one day Steffan Jones could be world class, and a lot of rubbish around them. Most of the Dragons players are no better than Premiership standard but they are lucky enough to be professional.

Bedford Welsh has a great point though, Dale Mcintosh might be a good answer for the Dragons, at least he'd knock some pride and guts into them.

Make your mind up shifty! If it's not to do with the coach then Dale Mcintosh won't make any difference either!

Also shifty haven't you slated the Blues coaches on another thread?

Did think Shane howarth might be in with a shout with a regional team when he was hinting about coaching in the NH. Since then he's gone to join the wasps coaching staff. Not sure how long his contract is - but could see him tempted to return to Newport as the main coach. Got some coaching experience with Auckland blues & nz Maori under his belt. Also knows the welsh game pretty well.

My mind is made up I think Edwards does make pathetic excuses when his team loses, and him mentioning positives when they lost to the Gwent xv at the start of the season was for me a joke.

I do think the Dragons need to toughen up they look so fragile and un-gwent like at the moment, but their players are not good enough I'm afraid.

bedfordwelsh wrote:Also shifty haven't you slated the Blues coaches on another thread?

No i didnt, slated their lazy players!

Players are not lazy in general though, they can only perform to a level they aspire to, and the Blues players care little for the Blues IMHO.

Similar to the Dragons problems, Edwards is working with a very tight budget, with a limited group of players, as Turner did.

Anyone think that Turner was actually doing a decent job with what he managed with players he was given. He used the rejects of the other regions tag to ignite the players and team which did ok.

It's hard to say whether he should go or bot. I went over for the Ulster game and it's more the manner of our performances that I'm concerned about. Under Turner, you knew that the team would never lie down and give up. We've never been the best region, but you knew that the boys were giving their all. I can't fault the efforts of Strve Jones or Adam Jones, but 18 months ago Steve Jones was our 3rd choice hooker and Adam Jones was playing for Newport. They've been great servants but shouldn't be playing regional rugby. Edwards has got his hands tied. He's picking the vest team from what he has, but they're not playing to their potential. We've got a half-decent back-line, but they never get any good ball. We have NO set-piece. I feel sorry for our stand-offs. Romping or Steffan are being asked to do a massively difficult job. For them it's 2 seasons too early. They need to be back up to an experienced 10 and being nurtured through. Our half backs are just kids. We have no experience, no guidance or leadership. I also feel for Faletau. If he was playing in France or England being a quality pack he'd be being talked about as the Lions 8. Staying at the dragons is only hampering him.
On finishing above the Blues? I think the Blues are slightly less awful than the Dragons. The Dragons v Blues a month ago was one of the worst regional games I've seen. Skill levels were unbelievably poor. Even Blues fans standing near myself commented on how woeful they'd been playing. I wouldn't want to see the Dragons anywhere near the HC. We couldn't compete when we adds in it and we're miles behind that now!
It's the worst state the regions have been in!
Should Edwards go? I'd say yes, but who would want to potentially damage their career by taking the job?

I was there for the Dragons Blues game man and it was awfull, easily an average prem quality type game!!!

Which makes me think, would a shuffle at the Dragons really hurt? Maybe a few of the Gwent select who played the Dragons pre season deserve a shot at the jersey?

Also what would be the drop in quality if the Dragons squad was disband and joined the 3 prem gwent clubs. Would you say those 3 prem clubs would be far behind where the Dragons are now?

If the Dragons were disbanded. The other regions would probably look to sign, Lydiate, Faletau, Johnny Evans, Adams Jones and I'd like to think Prydie. They'd also take the likes of Dixon, Amos and possibly Steffan Jones. The front 5 would be in the Prem. Lewis Evans, Will Harries, Ashley Smith, Tom Brown, Wayne Evans, Dan Evans I'm not sure would be snapped up. Maybe just as squad players. We've lost leadership all around the field. We couldn't afford to lose the likes of Burns, Willis, Charteris, Tovey and Brew. They were all first-teamers who were very experienced. Brew has been replaced be Prydie.

I think the Scarlets would be daft not to snap up Steffan Jones if it were to come to that MOG. Adam Hughes would get picked up by someone too

Not the way he played last night, his defence was not as bad as his co-centre but was poor, be realistic which region would pick him up? Hughes would not get in the Pontypridd team on the wing or centre from what I saw last night.

Think scarlets are well stocked at 10 with priestland, Jordan Williams, Owen Williams, aled thomas, Dan newton & the promising jack Maynard. Know ospreys rate steffan Jones highly though. Back when cuddy was throwing silly money around they offered him a two year contract at 40k a year. Fair play to SJ he stayed loyal to dragons and signed for them. Personally I rate hughes, think he'd find a regional contract somewhere.

If they have such depth why the hell are they persisting with Priestland ? Make him hungry to earn the spot !

Adam Hughes is a very good centre. He's still young and is regional quality without a doubt.
How worrying is the depth at fly half in Wales. The Blues and Dragons haven't got a 10 who's ready by a long way. Priestland isn't in great form and Biggar hasn't been given a lot of time at 10 for Wales. Priestland I'm sure will start but there's not a lot of depth at 10 in Wales.

Aled thomas has been putting a fair bit of pressure on priestland this season. But in next 2-3 years see the likes of Jordan, Owen Williams etc will overtake priestland.

I think Steff Jones is ready, so I'm not sure why we keep going for Robling who in my opinion is still a few years off?

It does seem that most think its time for a change which I agree with however the next coach would still be tied by financial restraints and have pretty much the same squad of players.

Its what he does with that squad that could be the difference, Edwards does seem to be struggling to get the best out of the players at the moment and defensively we are very poor, which at Dave a few seasons back was not the case.

Teams knew that an away win at RP was by know means a gimme and we never lay down and loved upsetting the big boys when they came there. Now I reckon all the big teams are targetting us for easy two easy BP wins a season and Ulster achieved one easily on Friday

doctornickolas wrote:I watched last night and the main thing I noticed was how poorly organised they were. In attack there was nothing other than to catch the ball standing still and make 1 yard before going to ground. defensively they were just dreadful. There was no urgency, no speed, all the tackles were around the shoulders instead of bringing the man down, they fell off tackles too easily and there was no aggression at all.

I definitely think its time for a change. Not sure if Kingsley is the man.

What is noticeable is that we seem to want to employ Welsh coaches all the time. I want as many Welsh players playing but couldn't care less where the coach came from as long as he has good. Irish provinces have benefited hugely with SH coaches and I think we should look there too.

I agree with every word of this. Every word.

As for whether we could afford a better coach, well the WRU are pretty quids in at the moment. You'd think they'd have realised how important the coaches can be, after the difference Gatland and Edwards have made with the national side.

Having quality players helps, no question, but good coaches will get the best out of the players at their disposal.

And if Edwards is going, Rob Appleyard has to go too. We were conceding the softest of tries and there he was by the dugout, laughing and joking.

LP,

Has there ever been a real or acceptable reason why Charvis left? Because for mer our defence has gone backwards ever since.

I haven't heard anything really, Bedford.

Perhaps it's time for the WRU to take full control of the regions? They control every other aspect of welsh rugby, from internationals to age grade, grassroots, etc. They we the ones who forced through changes to the pro game, but their approach to control has been half hearted. Here's the changes, but a handful of benefactors have to get on and make a go of it. That has resulted in no one really knowing who is in charge and who should be calling the shots.

With the WRU in full control then central contracts can be agreed more easily, players can be moved around for experience and game time, coaching standards can be centralised and areas of weakness can be evaluated and addressed from the top. If outside help is needed then the WRU can then use it's financial clout to attract in specialists. Hell, they could even expand their current quite sizeable marketing department to include the regions, which would be an improvement over the tin pot set up we have at the Dragons. The best we've managed lately is a darts night with some c lists darts players and our squad players. It's just embarrassing. Although, walking through Newport town centre an hour ago and seeing the state of our local population, maybe this sort of working men's club entertainment is what's needed. Attendances would argue the other way though...

I'm probably only looking at this from a Drgaons point of view, and I guess I am pleading poverty. The other regions seem to be dong better on certain fronts, e.g. The Scarlets have improved their match day offer and the crowds are increasing. However, I think that if we had a top down approach we could have parity across the board, and could utilise the full clout of the WRU to bring about improvements in a way that the cash strapped regions are finding it impossible to do at the moment.

Griff wrote:The other regions seem to be dong

Well we're the only region with a big yellow one on the front of our jerseys!

Ha! Well spotted! Freudian slip, or was it?!

It's sad that the only thing left to hope for this season is that the Blues are more dong than we are.

Yep. Saw the league earlier and it's not pretty. Only Zebre are more dong than us. It's dong being a Dragons fan. We used to have peaks and troughs. Not there are just troughs...

Like most I have spoken to and what I have read on here I just wish Edwards had decided to give the Amlin a real crackk.

We haven't the strenght to compete on two front we all know that (hardly competing on one at the moment) BUT I genuinely believe that if he concentrated efforts in this comp we could have a really godd 'Connacht' type run.

Completely agree Bedford. We've got nothing to lose. Odds are that we'll be the 4th placed Welsh team so it'll be the Amlin next year anyway. Plus, we can't get relegated. We should at least set out our stall in something, put all our eggs into one basket rather than chucking our eggs round willy nilly!

A good Europe run might win us some fans too. I'd love it if the dragons announced: "right, the league is boring, we haven't got a deep or big enough squad to make a season long league push so, as we can't get relegated, we're concentrating our resources and focus on the 6 European cup games. That's our push, that's focus, everything else is a training match for the competition'. I'd be happy with that. At least we'd know where we stood. Concentrating on those few Euro games might be good in terms of be able to rest players at other times, etc.

But then, we put out a second team in the first euro game and rotated against Leinster in the second league game, and Darren Edwards showed exactly what our focus would be: nothing.