Pro12 Round 8; Ulster vs Edinburgh

Well, the Pro12 picks up at Ravenhill on Friday night under the shadow of the impending test matches and it's because of those this match is pretty hard to call right now. Ulster are heavy favourites on form, but there's a joker in the deck; a lot will depend on what players are released from their respective national squads for the weekend

Ulster are missing 14 players from their regular squad- either to Ireland duty or injury- and a number of niggling injury worries has meant players we might normally expect to get back haven't been released.

Ulster XV & replacements to face Edinburgh, RaboDirect PRO12, Friday 2nd November, Ravenhill (7.05pm):
(15-9): R Andrew; C Cochrane, J Payne, P Wallace, C Gilroy; R Pienaar, P Marshall;
(1-8): C Black, N Brady (capt), J Afoa, L Stevenson, N McComb, S Ferris, M McComish, R Wilson;
Replacements (16-23): N Annett, R Lutton, A Macklin, R Diack, N Williams, N O'Connor, S Olding, P Nelson.

Unavailable for selection (14):
Rory Best, Tommy Bowe, Tom Court, Darren Cave, Chris Farrell, Declan Fitzpatrick, Iain Henderson, Chris Henry, Paddy Jackson, Luke Marshall, Paddy McAllister, Johann Muller, Andrew Trimble, Dan Tuohy.

There's an element of rotation with Jared Payne moving to outside centre to allow Ricky Andrew to make his full Ulster debut at fullback and Roger Wilson making his first Ulster start in four years- the impressive Nick Williams will surely enjoy wreaking havoc form the bench in the second half. Whilst Ulsters depth has improved tenfold in recent times, this is a much weakened side- even if it does have a spine of experience (Brady, Afoa, Ferris, Wilson, Pienaar, Wallace, Payne).

However, Edinburgh themselves are missing 10 to the Scottish squad- Geoff Cross, David Denton, Ross Ford, Allan Jacobsen, Ross Rennie, Nick De Luca, Lee Jones, Greig Laidlaw, Matt Scott and Tim Visser are all taking part in preparations for Scotlands clash with New Zealand on the 11th November. Stuart McInally and Grant Gilchrist have been released to face Ulster this weekend.

Edinburgh team:

1 Yapp
2 Titterell
3 Nel
4 Gilchrist
5 McAlipne
6 Cox (Capt)
7 Grant
8 McInally
9 Leck
10 Hunter
11 Brown
12 King
13 Houston
14 Jones
15 Tonks

Subs Walker, Jacobson, Niven, VDV, Watson, Rees, Fife, Visser jnr

The absence of 21 players to either Scotland or Ireland plus injuries gives both teams a fairly unfamiliar look, with the honours likely to go to the side who adapts best.

Can't believe Deccie is trying to sabotage our Rabo title challenge by calling up all those lads...tell you what Notch if those guys don't actually play then questions will be asked....

It's a big challenge this one. I can easily see Edinburgh turning us over here.

Still we still have Payne, Pienaar, Wilson, Williams, Afoa, Wallace, Stevenson, McComish and Brady in the squad for sure. Hopefully we'll maybe get Paul Marshall and Gilroy back too.

This will be a tough one though.

SUFTUM.

I'd say we'll get the four lads who were called up this week unless there are injuries. Can't imagine Marshall or Henderson are in Kidneys 23 right now either.

Don't know, have a feeling we might get a few guys to get gametime. Declan Fitzpatrick and Stephen Ferris have only played twice this season for instance. Maybe they won't be risked but at the same time there's no way they are full match fit and sharp. We might get Tommy Bowe back to give him practice at fullback

Equally would be as unsurprised not to see any of those guys back as I would if we did. Who knows?

So bascially this is the team

Black- Brady - Afoa
Lewis Stevenson - Neil McComb
Willaims - Wilson - Mike McComish

Michael Heaney/Niall O'Connor -Ruan Pienaar
Adam D'Arcy - Wallace - P. Nelson - Farrell
Jared Payne

As players are released by Ireland they will come into this.

i think some of th ebacks are injuried which ones will be back?
Wants happened to Doyle, and I take it D'arcy is fit?

I think we will get more Players back than Edinburgh (the drawbacks of only two teams in Scotland) and with home advantage. Edinburgh could be dangerous as they have been beaten and humilated recently, wil it continue or will they come out fighting and if so will it be enough?

You forgot about Paddy Wallace and Iain Henderson is one of the players in Ireland camp. And why on earth would Macklin play out of position on the loosehead side when we have Callum Black available?

I also think Payne is much more likely to switch to 13 with Nelson slotting into fullback. And Farrell is out injured for the whole season- not sure whether Adam D'Arcy or Michael Allen are fit again.

Kingshu Paddy Wallace hasn't been called up and Henderson has.

Wilson at 8 and Williams at 6 maybe? Calum Black at LH?

Is Diack fit?

P.S. posted before I read your post Notch.

Yeah, Diack is fit as is Birch. Don't think Doyle is back now.

I think what we have right now is more like;

Black-Brady-Afoa
Stevenson-McComb
Diack-Williams-McComish

Pienaar-O'Connor
Wallace-Payne
Cochrane-Nelson-D'Arcy

Then Roger Wilson, Michael Heaney, Rob Herring etc. If we get for example Henderson, Jackson, Cave and Gilroy back I'm happy enough.

Yeah I think that looks close to what I would have thought. Hopefully we'll get Jackson and/or P Marshall back.

Will you get Jackson back? O'Gara is injured.

Would yous not have Luke Marshall back as well?? He surely wont be involved in the first test.

Oh well no then, didn't realise ROG was injured. Grand job(not for ROG obviously). Hope Paddy gets his chance then. We'll manage.

Just been announced Rory Best is injured.

Golden wrote:Would yous not have Luke Marshall back as well?? He surely wont be involved in the first test.

I wouldn't be sure on that, word is he's running rings round D'arcy in training as we speak.....

rodders wrote:

Golden wrote:Would yous not have Luke Marshall back as well?? He surely wont be involved in the first test.

I wouldn't be sure on that, word is he's running rings round D'arcy in training as we speak.....

Maybe Adam D'arcy is still carring an injury rodders

rodders wrote:

Golden wrote:Would yous not have Luke Marshall back as well?? He surely wont be involved in the first test.

I wouldn't be sure on that, word is he's running rings round D'arcy in training as we speak.....

since when has form made a difference to a kidney selection?

Actually think Darcy has been ok anyway.

The fact that Edinburgh are missing any players to the international squad at all at the moment is fairly ludicrous.

I'd have gone for an Ulster win by 20 points had it been last week. With players being off on international camps, I'm at a loss.

In terms of players not returning, I'd say it was evens. But what will this mean? Will the fringe players at edinburgh see this as thier chance to show they can do better than the encumbents? could there be a backlash against the top of the table team? or will Edinburgh be just as poo as before and get another humping??????????????

Kingshu wrote:

rodders wrote:

Golden wrote:Would yous not have Luke Marshall back as well?? He surely wont be involved in the first test.

I wouldn't be sure on that, word is he's running rings round D'arcy in training as we speak.....

Maybe Adam D'arcy is still carring an injury rodders

I meant Gordon.... it was a joke guys..... tough crowd....

red_stag wrote:Just been announced Rory Best is injured.

Strauss to get his first cap starting against his own country then?

never mind just saw international thread

Yep, the Saffer hooker will get his first cap against the Boks. Can't wait to see the (entirely deserved) flak we get from fans of other nations for that.

With O'Driscoll now out of the series, it will be interesting to see who of Darren Cave, Luke Marshall and Craig Gilroy gets released for this game. Anyone who is brought into the 23 on the back of that will not be featuring on Friday.

Can't see Cave or Marshall being released now. Say we'll get Gilroy back though.

Biggest test of our new found squad depth this season, with all the call ups.

I'm not saying if we lose that we don't have more depth than last season, because we clearly do. This will be a big ask though, this is the sort of game that makes you think Anscombe's rotation and trying lots of different options, particularly across the backline could come good.

Depends on Edinburghs situation as well, which I don't know much about.

a) Which of those 12 players are available and how many
b) What their confidence is like
c) Do they have the stomach for it?

If it's a) Lots b) Low, but still there and c) Anything to get back on track we'll want a few lads coming back I'd say.

Be surprised if we don't get Declan Fitzpatrick for a run out and a bit of match fitness and- touch wood- hope we get Paddy Jackson, Paul Marshall and Craig Gilroy.

Can't see anything but an Edinburgh loss here. Ulster are unbeaten, Edinburgh have only won 2. Ulster have a great team spirit both on the pitch and in the stands and am fairly sure in a battle between Ulster's 2nd team and Edinbrugh's 2nd team there'll be only 1 winner.

Fairy certain McInally and Gilchrist will be released. Well, at least if they aren't we're screwed!

I reckon this will be a fairly accurate team bearing in mind the injuries (bit of a crisis at backrow just now) and players away:

1 Yapp
2 Titterell
3 Nel (had a storming game against Scarlets)
4 Gilchrist
5 McAlpine
6 Cox
7 Grant
8 McInally
9 Rees
10 Leonard
11 Fife
12 Houston
13 King/Tonks
14 Penn??/Brown
15 Brown/Tonks

Forwards decent, backs not so much!

I'm not sure of the current situation but we did have Adam D'Arcy and Peter Nelson injured before the Ravens game against Bristol a week and a half ago.
Doyle is still injured as far as I know. Not sure of Michael Allen.
Robbie Diack is fit and played well for Malone last weekend. He could, at a push play lock if we get stuck.

Obviously the final lineup will be dependent on the releases back from the Ireland training squad but I do believe we will still have sufficient in hand against a (currenty) very poor Edinburgh side.

i think the crowd can play a big role for Ulster. Phoned up yesterday looking terrace tickets but both the terrace and prom are sold out! I cant recall that happening previously. Also there are only a handful of tickets left (behind the posts) for the Saints game in December! Great stuff!

10000+ tickets sold for this one so far, apparently.

http://www.ulsterrugby.com/news/10918.php

Tickets are still available for the Promenade and behind the posts and with a crowd of over 10,000 it promises to be a fantastic night at Ravenhill.

Implication is that the terrace and stand are full? Think the Ravenhill factor will see us through. I hope we can name a team like...

Black Brady Fitzpatrick
Stevenson McComb
Henderson Williams McComish

Pienaar Jackson
Wallace Payne
Gilroy Nelson Allen

I don't know whether the players in italics are match fit/will be released. They are who I realistically hope will be available, but we also have O'Connor, Diack, Wilson, Cochrane, Afoa etc. I'm assuming we will have to play Declan Fitzpatrick to help him gain some match fitness.

That's unbelievable. The only times we've got attendances that big are the 1872 games with Glasgow, and the odd HK game.

never mind a mid season Rabbo game with loads of top line players missing!

Its a new precedent for Ravenhill (or at least my time at ravenhill) RDW. I would be delighted if we can start averaging 10K a game ahead of the redevelopment.

Notch

i would hope Fitz, marshall x 2 and Ferris would be released. Jackson and gilroy also.

RDW_Scotland wrote:That's unbelievable. The only times we've got attendances that big are the 1872 games with Glasgow, and the odd HK game.

never mind a mid season Rabbo game with loads of top line players missing!

It didn't happen right away for Ulster. At the start of the run to the European Cup Final in 1999 we had eff all people coming to watch unless we were taking on a touring national side or something (one of the earliest games I remember going to at Ravenhill was Ulster vs Australia in 1996).

Got to build these things up slowly, we were massively boosted by the European Cup it's true and attendances picked up massivly. But we were slumping down to 6000, 7000 in 2007/2008 so we've had to build it up again.

Ferris, I don't know. Surely only an eejit would think he's going to be able to smash the Boks aside with barely any gametime in the last month. He hasn't played in a month nearly. He needs gametime.

He's also very injury prone. We going to cotton wool him? Not sure. Don't think we should but its not my call.

Notch wrote:Ferris, I don't know. Surely only an eejit would think he's going to be able to smash the Boks aside with barely any gametime in the last month. He hasn't played in a month nearly. He needs gametime.

He's also very injury prone. We going to cotton wool him? Not sure. Don't think we should but its not my call.

In a nutshell. His last game was Munster wasnt it? I dont see how he can start against the Boks without 30-40 minutes.

If they are both fit i would actually prefer to see Henderson get the week off. How close is he to a squad place though?

His last game was Connacht on the 5th October. If he is rested this weekend and starts against the Boks he'll have only played 2 games this season and the last of them over a month ago... in that case I'd probably start O'Mahony at 6 and Henry at 7 with Fez on the bench.

Anyway, I'm not worried about 6. Henderson is likely to be released and even if neither he nor Ferris are involved there's still Robbie Diack. With Diack, McComish, Wilson and Williams all around the backrow is in good shape. Similarly our reserve front row is good (still have Afoa remember), Stevenson has been the unsung hero of our season so far and McComb looks twice the player he has before. I'm happy with the pack of forwards we have and we'll likely have Pienaar at 9.

It's 10 I'm worried about. Pienaar didn't kick too well at goal and Jackson will be needed for his place kicking. We do of course have Paddy Wallace at 12 who could move in, and Anscombe might decide this is the right game to try and bring O'Connor back (though I worry that might kill any hope of a try bonus).

Jared Payne is available at 13 or 15, and the rest of the backline is pretty up in the air. But looking through our options I remain content enough. This is pretty much the team that went through pre-season and the first three friendlies unbeaten with the probable addition of the experienced Pienaar and Wallace.

a backline of

pienaar
jackson
gilroy
wallace/marshall
payne
allen/nelson/cochrane
nelson/allen

could do a job.

As you mention our pack is decent. stevenson and McComb is a decent 2nd row and our tight 5 will be good with black and afoa.

Yeah we're getting humped...

Gonna be very hard for Edinburgh. Maybe the non Scotland squad players will step up and take their chance but loosing an entire first team is never going to be easy. The Scottish teams have always suffered during international release as a result of having so many internationals along with poor strength in depth. Recruitment has help the quality of the backup players but I can only see an ulster win

TJ- is there no chance any of those 12 players will be released for Edinburgh then?

Normally for Ireland, in these kind of situations, between 15 and 23 players who have been earmarked for the matchday squad are held back whilst the others are released to get gametime with their provinces.

As I said I reckon we'll get gilchrist and mcinally back - we're really gonna struggle for back row if we don't - and he may want to give chunk some game time but that's it

RDW_Scotland wrote:As I said I reckon we'll get gilchrist and mcinally back - we're really gonna struggle for back row if we don't - and he may want to give chunk some game time but that's it

Think Chunk is still recovering from his hamstring injury and is only taking part in light training at the moment. Can't see him being ready or risked for Friday considering the national team have barely got a couple of props to rub together as it is.

As you said earlier RDW, I can only see us getting humped in this match.

I see that Izak van der Westhuizen has finally got his arse to the capital.

Anyone know if he'll be chucked in against Ulster?

So, Ulster will have Ferris, Gilroy and PMarshall back from Ireland camp.

Diack is recovered as is Allen.

We will still have Pienaar this week too.

Should see quite a few youngsters in the backs though.

Have updated the Original Post with details of our squad.

Might now expect to see a team like;

1) Callum Black
2) Nigel Brady
3) John Afoa
4) Lewis Stevenson
5) Neil McComb
6) Stephen Ferris
7) Mike McComish
8) Nick Williams
9) Paul Marshall/Ruan Pienaar
10) Ruan Pienaar/Niall O'Connor
11) Craig Gilroy
12) Paddy Wallace
13) Jared Payne
14) Michael Allen
15) Peter Nelson

What I hope for is to see Peter Nelson in at 15.

10 is my big worry- of course we could keep Pienaar at 10 and Marshall at 9. If Niall does get the start I'll be supporting him fully of course. Just nervous about how that will affect our backline. If he does start, we can put Pienaar and Wallace at 9 and 12. That should help us in attack and Pienaar can take the goal kicking. Its probably the best chance to ease him back in we'll get.

I think we'll see Marshall and Pienaar start at halfback.

Still a good side we have left. Is Ferris fit to play does anyone know?

Well he has been named in the extended squad Rodders and it would seem unlikely that he would have travelled to the Ireland camp if he wasn't fit.

Yeah Ferris was only not picked against the Dragons as a pre-caution. He trained fully in the run-up I believe?

Fair enough Mrs P.... I miss Hendo though...Ferris is sooooo last season.....

Really surprised Henderson wasn't released. He must be 'being Ferris' in the training drills in Ireland camp during his absence.

Yeah I would prefer to see marshal at 9 and Pienaar at 10, we might as well have two of our strongest players on the pitch, one of which out of position, rather than a strong scrum half and a weak 10. Also if Paul marshal has been released back to us I assume it will be to possibly get a bit of game time and a further chance to impress the Irish coaching panel.

We can keep from last week

4. Stevenson
8. Williams

9. Marshall
10. Pienaar

11. Gilroy
12. Wallace

and then from earlier;

15. Payne

So I'd pick;

Black Brady Afoa
Stevenson McComb
Ferris Williams McComish

Marshall Pienaar
Wallace Allen
Gilroy Payne Cochrane

Herring Lutton Macklin Diack Wilson Heaney O'Connor Nelson

That might be best in terms of continuity. Then we slot 8 new players in. There's enough changes to the side that keeping the 7 players who started last week in the same positions is probably a good idea plus Payne back to the accustomed full back role. Then at least we're keeping half the team the same.

Don't anticipate this disrupting us too much. Our front row all played last week, McComb, Ferris and McComish all know their roles well and Allen and Cochrane/Andrew can come in at 13 and 14.

Where we are MUCH weaker is in our bench options. Two very, very green props. No recognised lock. No experienced backs.