Ireland vs South Africa pre-match talk and squad announcements.

First topic message reminder :

The much anticipated Autumn Iinternationals has arrived and South Africa will begin their three test tour against Ireland on Saturday at Landsdowne road. With a record of only one win in their last four test matches and 3 straight losses between 2004 and 2009, the Springboks would like to continue their resurgence against Ireland and emulate their two point victory of 2010.

But will they be up for an Ireland team who have been just about as disappointing as the Springboks were in 2012.

Ireland who boast wins over Scotland and Italy and a Hard earned draw over France at Stade de France earlier in the year has a disappointing return of 5 losses, 2 wins and 1 draw for the year.

South Africa has not fared much better, with 4 wins, 3 losses and 2 draws for the year.

Both teams will rue lost opportunities during the year where execution and specifically goal kicking have haunted the Springboks in Particular. Their goal kickin records stands at a miserly 55% for the year and will lose you more tests than win.

Ireland will be without their inspirational captain Brian O'Driscoll and South Africa after a long season will bewithout the services of Arguably the best Hooker in world rugby Bismarck du Plessis, the athletic Andries Bekker, talisman Schalk Burger, Pierre Spies, Heinrich Brussow, Johan Goosen, Bryan Habana (yeah I know I am complaining a bit much here), Frans Steyn and Coenie Oosthuizen.

Will this end of season tour be a bridge too far for an injury riddled South African squad or will they be able to overcome an Irish team who hasn't convinced this year.

Likely SA matchday 22.

1. Beast Mtwarira
2. Adriaan Strauss
3. Jannie du Plessis
4. Eben Etzebeth
5. Juandre Kruger (Marco Wentzel)
6. Francois Louw
7. Willem Alberts
8. Duane Vermeulen
9. Ruan Pienaar
10. Patrick Lambie
11. Francois Hougaard
12. Jean de Villiers
13. Jaco Taute
14. JP Pietersen
15. Zane Kirchner

Bench
16. Gurthro Steenkamp
17. Schalk Brits
18. Pat Cilliers
19. Flip v d Merwe
20. Marcelle Coetzee
21. Franco v d Merwe
22. Jan Vermaak
23. Morne Steyn

I'll update if someone provides me a likely Irish matchday 22.

Gibson wrote:A Corkman shown the Leinster Way. 1st task was getting him to eat with a knife & fork. Then, we introduced him to soap and aftershave(Nivea brand). Then, we made an International prop out of him.

Risteardt was much less work. We just thought him to stand up straight, scrummage, throw arrows and tone down that Saffer accent a bit.

Healy was born into it.

No tanks required. Its what we do.

Doubt its Nivea. More likely Old spice though it is still considered posh down south.

Biltong wrote:I see SA is getting a lot of flack again over their kicking.

I personally think people should start looking for something else

Kicks per match in the Rugby Championship.

SA 15 ARG 18
SA 25 ARG 26
SA 32 AUS 37
NZ 24 SA 27
SA 19 AUS 20
SA 17 NZ 28

Total kicks for SA 145
Total kicks for opponents 153

Just shows you when there is a myth out there it sticks like #€%^ to a wool blanket.

Biltong SA are just going to have to kick the ball tomorrow in a bid to keep the score down. Didn't you read? Ireland were the top try scorers in a 6 Nations they didn't win and are the only side to almost draw wit.... Sorry, the only side to almost beat THE ALL BLACKS.

I think those Stats are a little warped relating to the All Blacks in all fairness Bilt. How many of their kicks were little grubbers or chip kicks which are an offensive weapon rather than long punts (which NZ do do too)

What the hell is the Welsh guys problem?

Notch wrote:What the hell is the Welsh guys problem?

He was whining about something or other and Fly put him in his place back at the top of page 9

I can't believe somebody comes and wades through page after page of Irish fans being very negative and pessimistic about their team to misconstrue one comment... which is largely very critical of the team!

Wouldn't you be sad if teams as truly diabolical as Ireland and Scotland could beat Australia and the all-singing, all-dancing, all-giving away soft three pointers Welsh couldn't even manage it once. I mean come on, Scotland beat Australia twice. Only capital letters can enforce this point. SCOTLAND beat Australia TWICE. PHACKT! It's a sad state of affairs alright.

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:I think those Stats are a little warped relating to the All Blacks in all fairness Bilt. How many of their kicks were little grubbers or chip kicks which are an offensive weapon rather than long punts (which NZ do do too)

pete, not the point mate.

I have been supplying these stats for the past 2 seasons, showing SA isn't the only team kicking, the little chips you are talking about was kess than a handfull in two of those matches.

We scored the scond most tries in the Rugby championship, twice as many as OZ and Argentina, in the summer tours we ran the most yardage from kick returns.

I can rack up the facts and figures all night long as I analyse them after every series or competition, simply because I am trying to see whether we are moving in the right direction.

Yet the perception doesn't change.

i am not advocating that we aren't kicking, I am advocating everyone employs the kick.

Paul Wallace was just saying on the radio that Kidney should not be playing Henderson and Kilcoyne because they don't have enough experience. Fiji being the game to play them. Then what, Paul? Wait until next autumn when they play Canada or Samoa??

Notch wrote:What the hell is the Welsh guys problem?

I think its because some Irish posters don't accept that Wales have better players.

DOD wrote:

Notch wrote:What the hell is the Welsh guys problem?

He was whining about something or other and Fly put him in his place back at the top of page 9

Excuse you? You mean fly repeating himself, saying again, something along the lines of Ireland being the 6 Nations top try-scorers and finishing in 3rd place; Ireland almost beating the All Blacks when the reality is they almost drew with them in between two obliterations.

So as you can see the first part we agree on, but the latter part... Come on, a bit of realism please.

Biltong, I think it's safe to assume that the South Africans will kick the ball down Zebo's throat early on Saturday. If Zebo drops an early one I fear he will be in for a long afternoon with a sore neck looking up to the sky for the next bomb.

Hookisms and Hyperbole wrote:Wouldn't you be sad if teams as truly diabolical as Ireland and Scotland could beat Australia and the all-singing, all-dancing, all-giving away soft three pointers Welsh couldn't even manage it once. I mean come on, Scotland beat Australia twice. Only capital letters can enforce this point. SCOTLAND beat Australia TWICE. PHACKT! It's a sad state of affairs alright.

Yeah I congratulated Scotland on their latest win. But I'm not seeing your point here. You do know Wales are still better than Scotland and Ireland right? 5 on the trot and 3 on the trot. Facts are facts. Poor wum.

Well of course they will try to exploit weakness under the high ball, that's exactly what Australia did to Lwazi Mvovo, he fumbled, they scored and won.

Morgannwg wrote:

Hookisms and Hyperbole wrote:Wouldn't you be sad if teams as truly diabolical as Ireland and Scotland could beat Australia and the all-singing, all-dancing, all-giving away soft three pointers Welsh couldn't even manage it once. I mean come on, Scotland beat Australia twice. Only capital letters can enforce this point. SCOTLAND beat Australia TWICE. PHACKT! It's a sad state of affairs alright.

Yeah I congratulated Scotland on their latest win. But I'm not seeing your point here. You do know Wales are still better than Scotland and Ireland right? 5 on the trot and 3 on the trot. Facts are facts. Poor wum.

As you say, facts are facts. Wales are utterly incapable of beating teams that the Irish and Scottish squads you denigrate have beaten. If you bothered to read the thread you might learn that no one is satisfied with the Irish team, but we have the foundation of being able to build on something being top scorers last season and being close to a result against New Zealand. I don't see whats so difficult for you to comprehend there. No one is claiming Ireland are better than Wales, in fact just the opposite.

Anyway, a Welsh fan telling people to be realistic. Whatever next? John Terry telling people off for being racist? Now be a dear and trot on and WUM in your own threads. There's a good fella.

Morgannwg wrote:

Hookisms and Hyperbole wrote:Wouldn't you be sad if teams as truly diabolical as Ireland and Scotland could beat Australia and the all-singing, all-dancing, all-giving away soft three pointers Welsh couldn't even manage it once. I mean come on, Scotland beat Australia twice. Only capital letters can enforce this point. SCOTLAND beat Australia TWICE. PHACKT! It's a sad state of affairs alright.

Yeah I congratulated Scotland on their latest win. But I'm not seeing your point here. You do know Wales are still better than Scotland and Ireland right? 5 on the trot and 3 on the trot. Facts are facts. Poor wum.

Enjoy wales' success while it lasts because I tell ya the way the regions are going, it ain't going to last long.

Biltong wrote:Well of course they will try to exploit weakness under the high ball, that's exactly what Australia did to Lwazi Mvovo, he fumbled, they scored and won.

I think you only need to play a very limited game against us to win. Even with alot of injuries and inexperience I fear our pack is lightweight and will be smashed all over the park. I would be surprised if outside of 10 your backs even smelled the ball. I really think we will be soundly beaten.

Hookisms and Hyperbole wrote:

Morgannwg wrote:

Hookisms and Hyperbole wrote:Wouldn't you be sad if teams as truly diabolical as Ireland and Scotland could beat Australia and the all-singing, all-dancing, all-giving away soft three pointers Welsh couldn't even manage it once. I mean come on, Scotland beat Australia twice. Only capital letters can enforce this point. SCOTLAND beat Australia TWICE. PHACKT! It's a sad state of affairs alright.

Yeah I congratulated Scotland on their latest win. But I'm not seeing your point here. You do know Wales are still better than Scotland and Ireland right? 5 on the trot and 3 on the trot. Facts are facts. Poor wum.

As you say, facts are facts. Wales are utterly incapable of beating teams that the Irish and Scottish squads you denigrate have beaten. If you bothered to read the thread you might learn that no one is satisfied with the Irish team, but we have the foundation of being able to build on something being top scorers last season and being close to a result against New Zealand. I don't see whats so difficult for you to comprehend there. No one is claiming Ireland are better than Wales, in fact just the opposite.

Sorry, going to have to call you up on this, but; where have I denigrated Ireland and Scotland? I pointed out straight-ass facts. Apparently it's the Ireland fans criticising Ireland according to your fans. But for some reason you have responded by criticising Wales. Got news for you, this thread isn't about Wales hence me not seeing your point or the reason for your comparison. I think Ireland are a decent team, capable of being better than they are now. It may take time though as you transition in a few new players.

If I wanted to denigrate you I'd mention how utterly incapable Ireland are of winning more than one Grand Slam per 60-odd years .

LeinsterFan4life wrote:

Morgannwg wrote:

Hookisms and Hyperbole wrote:Wouldn't you be sad if teams as truly diabolical as Ireland and Scotland could beat Australia and the all-singing, all-dancing, all-giving away soft three pointers Welsh couldn't even manage it once. I mean come on, Scotland beat Australia twice. Only capital letters can enforce this point. SCOTLAND beat Australia TWICE. PHACKT! It's a sad state of affairs alright.

Yeah I congratulated Scotland on their latest win. But I'm not seeing your point here. You do know Wales are still better than Scotland and Ireland right? 5 on the trot and 3 on the trot. Facts are facts. Poor wum.

Enjoy wales' success while it lasts because I tell ya the way the regions are going, it ain't going to last long.

Don't Ireland need Wales as much as vice versa? If the regions continue to decline, does the Rabo not go nellies up?

greytiger wrote:

LeinsterFan4life wrote:

Morgannwg wrote:

Hookisms and Hyperbole wrote:Wouldn't you be sad if teams as truly diabolical as Ireland and Scotland could beat Australia and the all-singing, all-dancing, all-giving away soft three pointers Welsh couldn't even manage it once. I mean come on, Scotland beat Australia twice. Only capital letters can enforce this point. SCOTLAND beat Australia TWICE. PHACKT! It's a sad state of affairs alright.

Yeah I congratulated Scotland on their latest win. But I'm not seeing your point here. You do know Wales are still better than Scotland and Ireland right? 5 on the trot and 3 on the trot. Facts are facts. Poor wum.

Enjoy wales' success while it lasts because I tell ya the way the regions are going, it ain't going to last long.

Don't Ireland need Wales as much as vice versa? If the regions continue to decline, does the Rabo not go nellies up?

If the Welsh regions were to go it would be a disaster for Welsh rugby, a big blow for Irish rugby and damaging for European and even world rugby too.

Gibson wrote:

neilthom7 wrote:I will have you all know Risteard ni Straussain is actually a very old Irish tribal males name which was then adopted for the ladies after they ran out of good names and started stealing mens after the great gender battle of of 2004. I could also be making that all up

Ya cant bate a good old Christian Bros education Neil.

Education? In Ireland? clearly Gibson you were one of these posh folks who could afford a school place, us Ulster folks had to just learn from the tales we were told like that Ireland once didn't kick every decent possession we had away, I believe that was myth though

Morgannwg wrote:Sorry, going to have to call you up on this, but; where have I denigrated Ireland and Scotland? I pointed out straight-ass facts. Apparently it's the Ireland fans criticising Ireland according to your fans. But for some reason you have responded by criticising Wales. Got news for you, this thread isn't about Wales hence me not seeing your point or the reason for your comparison. I think Ireland are a decent team, capable of being better than they are now. It may take time though as you transition in a few new players.

If I wanted to denigrate you I'd mention how utterly incapable Ireland are of winning more than one Grand Slam per 60-odd years .

Awk diddums, terribly sorry that the facts a couple of people have posted in here upset you, you sensitive soul. My response about Wales was related to a question from Notch about why you were so mad and what you were doing in here. And you are right, this thread isn't about Wales so no need for you to be in here in the first place and no need to continue now is there. Some of us look at Wales, another small country with average to decent players punching well above their weight at international level and wonder why we are so consistently inconsistent. There are enough of us to beat our own team with verbal sticks without your inane contributions, such as they are. You stuck your oar in the first place with your sarky comment, now kindly stick it over your shoulder and back to your world of make believe. Toodle pip.

the Clontarf v Lansdown match is being streamed live on aertv now.
martin moore, tadhg fulong, foster horan, tom daley, tadhg beirne, jack o connell, tomas sexton and royce burke flynn are all playing.

good match so far.

LeinsterFan4life wrote:the Clontarf v Lansdown match is being streamed live on aertv now.
martin moore, tadhg fulong, foster horan, tom daley, tadhg beirne, jack o connell, tomas sexton and royce burke flynn are all playing.

good match so far.

Cheers!

greytiger wrote:Don't Ireland need Wales as much as vice versa? If the regions continue to decline, does the Rabo not go nellies up?

Well, we all need each other from an international rugby standpoint in the Six Nations. And we need the Welsh regions to provide some opposition.

The quality of the Pro12 is notably falling now due to Wales' inability to manage their regions. Its genuinely having an impact on the league. It was a sad sight seeing the once mighty Blues being comprehensively dismantled by Ulster. It used to be really hard to go over there and win.

So far, it hasn't had a knock-on effect on their national side and hopefully that will continue.

greytiger wrote:

LeinsterFan4life wrote:

Morgannwg wrote:

Hookisms and Hyperbole wrote:Wouldn't you be sad if teams as truly diabolical as Ireland and Scotland could beat Australia and the all-singing, all-dancing, all-giving away soft three pointers Welsh couldn't even manage it once. I mean come on, Scotland beat Australia twice. Only capital letters can enforce this point. SCOTLAND beat Australia TWICE. PHACKT! It's a sad state of affairs alright.

Yeah I congratulated Scotland on their latest win. But I'm not seeing your point here. You do know Wales are still better than Scotland and Ireland right? 5 on the trot and 3 on the trot. Facts are facts. Poor wum.

Enjoy wales' success while it lasts because I tell ya the way the regions are going, it ain't going to last long.

Don't Ireland need Wales as much as vice versa? If the regions continue to decline, does the Rabo not go nellies up?

Nope - the Russians are coming ...

A lot of chit-chat about Wales and Scotland (and latterly, Russia ) on a thread about SA vs Ireland!!!

Mr Fishpaste wrote:A lot of chit-chat about Wales and Scotland (and latterly, Russia ) on a thread about SA vs Ireland!!!

Don't forget the Chinese they are just waiting for us to self destruct before the sweep in and win the 6 nations, you heard it here first

Morgannwg wrote:
Yeah I congratulated Scotland on their latest win. But I'm not seeing your point here. You do know Wales are still better than Scotland and Ireland right? 5 on the trot and 3 on the trot. Facts are facts. Poor wum.

Well I do anyways but thanks for reminding me...... and I'll not have you call my buddie hook a poor wum...why he's one of the finest wums on here.

Thank fiec we're playing the boks rather than Wales though..

Mr Fishpaste wrote:A lot of chit-chat about Wales and Scotland (and latterly, Russia ) on a thread about SA vs Ireland!!!

I know talk about a poor wum going off topic!

And Rodders,

I agree if you're a neutral you're gonna say Wales are better than Ireland at the minute, fair enough. In fact even I as an Irish fan am quite happy to concede that point. But if it's only the last 3 (it is the last 3 right?) then it's hardly complete and utter dominance over another side. It really isn't that easy to call the outcome if Ireland were playing Wales tomorrow. So can we just give it a rest you bloody clowns?

Having said all that, I am sitting here wondering how Wales got these wins in a row and subsequent momentum over Ireland, didn't it all start with Wales cheating?

Sorry perhaps I should have said clown instead of clowns?

rodders wrote:

Morgannwg wrote:
Yeah I congratulated Scotland on their latest win. But I'm not seeing your point here. You do know Wales are still better than Scotland and Ireland right? 5 on the trot and 3 on the trot. Facts are facts. Poor wum.

Well I do anyways but thanks for reminding me...... and I'll not have you call my buddie hook a poor wum...why he's one of the finest wums on here.

Thank fiec we're playing the boks rather than Wales though..

I doff my cap to you kind sir. I raised my game the more I hung out with the likes of you. You helped me raise the standard of my game. I'm Craig Gilroy to your Tommy Bowe. I'm the Johnny Sexton to your Felipe Contepomi. I'm the........hmmmmm, something to do with Ronan O'Gara. Oh yes, I'm the ego of Ronan O'Gara to your Declan Kidney's continued selection based on incriminating nude holiday snaps from a lads holiday in Faliraki '05. No tour talk lads.

Have just realised I have made my first post on this thread with no reference to the actual subject!

I think it boils down to the pack and quick ball to the backs. If the Irish forwards can front up and provide decent ball and Murray can keep that ball quick by whipping it out to Sexton then I think we have a good chance. I also think alot rides on Zebo's performance under the high ball.

There are a few if's there though! For me, I guess it feels like the scales are tipping in SA's favour. Though that runs contrary to what I put in the prediction thread

Hookisms and Hyperbole wrote:
I doff my cap to you kind sir. I raised my game the more I hung out with the likes of you. You helped me raise the standard of my game. I'm Craig Gilroy to your Tommy Bowe. I'm the Johnny Sexton to your Felipe Contepomi. I'm the........hmmmmm, something to do with Ronan O'Gara. Oh yes, I'm the ego of Ronan O'Gara to your Declan Kidney's continued selection based on incriminating nude holiday snaps from a lads holiday in Faliraki '05. No tour talk lads.

Hook if you are saying I'm past my prime as a wum then just bloody spit it out sir.....

Notch wrote:

greytiger wrote:Don't Ireland need Wales as much as vice versa? If the regions continue to decline, does the Rabo not go nellies up?

Well, we all need each other from an international rugby standpoint in the Six Nations. And we need the Welsh regions to provide some opposition.

The quality of the Pro12 is notably falling now due to Wales' inability to manage their regions. Its genuinely having an impact on the league. It was a sad sight seeing the once mighty Blues being comprehensively dismantled by Ulster. It used to be really hard to go over there and win.

So far, it hasn't had a knock-on effect on their national side and hopefully that will continue.

Connacht, the two Scottish and Treviso are on an upward curve. Scarlets have bucked the Welsh trend too this season so all in all I don't think the quality of the league is down. Its just Cardiff and Dragons and to a lesser degree the Ospreys.

rodders wrote:

Hookisms and Hyperbole wrote:
I doff my cap to you kind sir. I raised my game the more I hung out with the likes of you. You helped me raise the standard of my game. I'm Craig Gilroy to your Tommy Bowe. I'm the Johnny Sexton to your Felipe Contepomi. I'm the........hmmmmm, something to do with Ronan O'Gara. Oh yes, I'm the ego of Ronan O'Gara to your Declan Kidney's continued selection based on incriminating nude holiday snaps from a lads holiday in Faliraki '05. No tour talk lads.

Hook if you are saying I'm past my prime as a wum then just bloody spit it out sir.....

I prefer to say you are having an Indian summer. Plenty to offer yet Rodders.

Pack size comparison.

1. Cian Healy 185cm 112kg - Tendai Mtawarira 187cm 118kg
2. Richardt Strauss 175cm 101kg - Adriaan Strauss 184cm 111kg
3. Mike Ross 188cm 127kg - du Plessis 188cm 119kg

4. Donnacha Ryan 198cm 108kg - Eben Etzebeth 203cm 117kg
5. Mike McCarthy 193cm 115kg - Juandré Kruger 198cm 112kg
6. Peter O'Mahony 191cm 108kg - Louw 190 cm 114kg
7. Chris Henry 191cm 107kg - Willem Alberts 194cm 125kg
8. Jamie Heaslip 193cm 109kg - Duane Vermeulen 193cm 108kg

I don't mean to be pedantic, but Duane Vermeulen is 116kg. He is pretty huge. The springboks' backrow are each 18 stone plus.

Willem Alberts is never 125kg

Imagine how dynamic he'd be if he dropped 5-10kg's!!!!

I would say he probably is around that weight. The guy is a monster.

They're less mobile so. I read an interview with Stephen Ferris a few months back where he said he struggled to keep down the weight which indicates he wasn't allowed get too big.

Boks are huge. End of.

profitius wrote:Pack size comparison.

1. Cian Healy 185cm 112kg - Tendai Mtawarira 187cm 118kg
2. Richardt Strauss 175cm 101kg - Adriaan Strauss 184cm 111kg
3. Mike Ross 188cm 127kg - du Plessis 188cm 119kg

4. Donnacha Ryan 198cm 108kg - Eben Etzebeth 203cm 117kg
5. Mike McCarthy 193cm 115kg - Juandré Kruger 198cm 112kg
6. Peter O'Mahony 191cm 108kg - Louw 190 cm 114kg
7. Chris Henry 191cm 107kg - Willem Alberts 194cm 125kg
8. Jamie Heaslip 193cm 109kg - Duane Vermeulen 193cm 108kg

That's the key one there. Big fatty Ross and Iron Mike McCarthy are taking the Bok scrum down to China town baby..... just don't check the binding (lines)man......

Rory_Gallagher wrote:I don't mean to be pedantic, but Duane Vermeulen is 116kg. He is pretty huge. The springboks' backrow are each 18 stone plus.

And I don't mean to be pedantic either, but what is a 20-year old doing, quoting prehistoric stones?

Dem Bwitish Isles, they just don't want to join this Century. Or even the last Century.

Bless em.

Gibson wrote:

Rory_Gallagher wrote:I don't mean to be pedantic, but Duane Vermeulen is 116kg. He is pretty huge. The springboks' backrow are each 18 stone plus.

And I don't mean to be pedantic either, but what is a 20-year old doing, quoting prehistoric stones?

Dem Bwitish Isles, they just don't want to join this Century. Or even the last Century.

Bless em.

To be fair Gibson if you are born in Tyrone like me it's easier to measure in stones because there's plenty of them around

Gibson wrote:

Rory_Gallagher wrote:I don't mean to be pedantic, but Duane Vermeulen is 116kg. He is pretty huge. The springboks' backrow are each 18 stone plus.

And I don't mean to be pedantic either, but what is a 20-year old doing, quoting prehistoric stones?

Dem Bwitish Isles, they just don't want to join this Century. Or even the last Century.

Bless em.

An Irishman complaining about people living in the past? The irony is so delicious I can't wait to gobble it up. Its a shame to eat it though, it looks almost too pretty to eat.

Hookisms and Hyperbole wrote:

rodders wrote:

Hookisms and Hyperbole wrote:
I doff my cap to you kind sir. I raised my game the more I hung out with the likes of you. You helped me raise the standard of my game. I'm Craig Gilroy to your Tommy Bowe. I'm the Johnny Sexton to your Felipe Contepomi. I'm the........hmmmmm, something to do with Ronan O'Gara. Oh yes, I'm the ego of Ronan O'Gara to your Declan Kidney's continued selection based on incriminating nude holiday snaps from a lads holiday in Faliraki '05. No tour talk lads.

Hook if you are saying I'm past my prime as a wum then just bloody spit it out sir.....

I prefer to say you are having an Indian summer. Plenty to offer yet Rodders.

And The Patronising Cap of the Week goes to... well... it goes to me really. Its no contest.

Amateurs. They clog my vision sometimes. But not for long.

Believe!

In Declan We Trust.

Four more years! Four more years!

Biltong wrote:

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:I think those Stats are a little warped relating to the All Blacks in all fairness Bilt. How many of their kicks were little grubbers or chip kicks which are an offensive weapon rather than long punts (which NZ do do too)

pete, not the point mate.

I have been supplying these stats for the past 2 seasons, showing SA isn't the only team kicking, the little chips you are talking about was kess than a handfull in two of those matches.

We scored the scond most tries in the Rugby championship, twice as many as OZ and Argentina, in the summer tours we ran the most yardage from kick returns.

I can rack up the facts and figures all night long as I analyse them after every series or competition, simply because I am trying to see whether we are moving in the right direction.

Yet the perception doesn't change.

i am not advocating that we aren't kicking, I am advocating everyone employs the kick.

Great post.
I do think the Blacks employ a range of different kicks compared to other teams in the world but I understand the point. Maybe the Boks have been unfairly labelled.

I'd love to know what percentages of passes from scrumhalf go to a forward, what percentage of passes from flyhalf go to a forward and how many phases involve 3 or more passes. not arguing your point I'd just be interested to know.

Gibson wrote:

Rory_Gallagher wrote:I don't mean to be pedantic, but Duane Vermeulen is 116kg. He is pretty huge. The springboks' backrow are each 18 stone plus.

And I don't mean to be pedantic either, but what is a 20-year old doing, quoting prehistoric stones?

Dem Bwitish Isles, they just don't want to join this Century. Or even the last Century.

Bless em.

This made me laugh. Touche, sir.

Gibbo you cynical auld bollix...believe sir! We'll be top of the world in no time...sure we're building a squad here...

Right signing off until Sunday when I'll be expecting a few people to eat humble pie..... but who....dum dum dum......