Ireland vs South Africa pre-match talk and squad announcements.

First topic message reminder :

The much anticipated Autumn Iinternationals has arrived and South Africa will begin their three test tour against Ireland on Saturday at Landsdowne road. With a record of only one win in their last four test matches and 3 straight losses between 2004 and 2009, the Springboks would like to continue their resurgence against Ireland and emulate their two point victory of 2010.

But will they be up for an Ireland team who have been just about as disappointing as the Springboks were in 2012.

Ireland who boast wins over Scotland and Italy and a Hard earned draw over France at Stade de France earlier in the year has a disappointing return of 5 losses, 2 wins and 1 draw for the year.

South Africa has not fared much better, with 4 wins, 3 losses and 2 draws for the year.

Both teams will rue lost opportunities during the year where execution and specifically goal kicking have haunted the Springboks in Particular. Their goal kickin records stands at a miserly 55% for the year and will lose you more tests than win.

Ireland will be without their inspirational captain Brian O'Driscoll and South Africa after a long season will bewithout the services of Arguably the best Hooker in world rugby Bismarck du Plessis, the athletic Andries Bekker, talisman Schalk Burger, Pierre Spies, Heinrich Brussow, Johan Goosen, Bryan Habana (yeah I know I am complaining a bit much here), Frans Steyn and Coenie Oosthuizen.

Will this end of season tour be a bridge too far for an injury riddled South African squad or will they be able to overcome an Irish team who hasn't convinced this year.

Likely SA matchday 22.

1. Beast Mtwarira
2. Adriaan Strauss
3. Jannie du Plessis
4. Eben Etzebeth
5. Juandre Kruger (Marco Wentzel)
6. Francois Louw
7. Willem Alberts
8. Duane Vermeulen
9. Ruan Pienaar
10. Patrick Lambie
11. Francois Hougaard
12. Jean de Villiers
13. Jaco Taute
14. JP Pietersen
15. Zane Kirchner

Bench
16. Gurthro Steenkamp
17. Schalk Brits
18. Pat Cilliers
19. Flip v d Merwe
20. Marcelle Coetzee
21. Franco v d Merwe
22. Jan Vermaak
23. Morne Steyn

I'll update if someone provides me a likely Irish matchday 22.

I have a very strange feeling that this will be our great game this year and we'll win well.

As my ma would say - "I've a feelin in me waturs"

Mickado wrote:I have a very strange feeling that this will be our great game this year and we'll win well.

As my ma would say - "I've a feelin in me waturs"

Thanks for that Mick, now my nerves are starting to unsettle.

I don't know man...head tells me SA will give us another painful lesson here... put the boot in further to this dejected bunch of inexperienced yoofs and creaking auld warhorses... but I watched Ireland v England in Croke pk 2007 last night so I feel inspired! Heart says Ireland by 3-10 points!

Ha Bil – my mam has never been the slightest bit interested in sport but all of her sons were sports crazy. The day of a big match everyone would be tense and nervous and she’d always reassure us (even though she had NO interest herself) that she had a good feeling about this one, for some reason it always set our mind at ease.

I think I’m just projecting that onto my fellow Irish fans, nerves are strained, tensions high, I’m just trying to provide some homespun relief. I’m sure we’ll actually get a hiding….

The absence of the Big Six is all part of the grand Deccie plan.

This is his way of introducing new players to the squad. When The Johnny & Jamie Show emerges from Lansdowne Road on Saturday, a new green dawn (well okay black with a flash of green), will break as the platinum generation gets on the road.

The Boks are gonna be chump in the water.....

I know its not gona happen, but from an Ulster POV, how good would it be to see Marshall and Pienaar head to head??

I really worry about the amount of muscle in our backline if we get slow ball which I think we will due to the physicallity the Boks will bring to the ruck coupled with Conor Murray.

I think that is ineviatbly will lose us the game and it is such a simple tactical issue to right.

Biltong will you find it weird when the camera ineviatbly turns to Richard Strauss during the S.African anthem?

I agree with you there Pete on the lack of physicality - The danger for Ireland in this match is that due to some injuries to key players it could be a very long afternoon. If SA break through early it could be a damaging defeat psychologically. With that said, If Celtic can beat Barcelona then Ireland if they rediscover their dog and fight can match SA and then anything can happen - Here's hoping for you guys, its a big ask but you fellas are always better when your backs are to the wall

It's not even that we are lacking players we can't blame the strategy on that but their is an imbalance.

Why would we select a 9 who's service is slow when we don't have guys who can get through big, strong and set defences?

Why do we use our backrow as ball carriers when our front 5 are generally to slow to the breakdown meaning that some of our backs ruck more than get their hands on the ball? In turn this means Sexton has guys like POC, Ross and DOC outside him taking on ball.

Why do we kick the ball away and try and play territory if we don't have a rock solid set piece in which we can win ball back or win penalties?

There are so few decisions made by our coaches that demonstrate logical tactical sense.

RubyGuby wrote:I agree with you there Pete on the lack of physicality - The danger for Ireland in this match is that due to some injuries to key players it could be a very long afternoon. If SA break through early it could be a damaging defeat psychologically. With that said, If Celtic can beat Barcelona then Ireland if they rediscover their dog and fight can match SA and then anything can happen - Here's hoping for you guys, its a big ask but you fellas are always better when your backs are to the wall

Thats what happened the last time:

Interview with John de Villiers

There was no question of who was the better side a year later, in the opening Test match at the Aviva, when a Morne Steyn-inspired South Africa streaked into a 23-9 lead before a late Irish rally proved rousing but, ultimately, futile. "We scored one intercept try* (through Juan Smith) in 2010 and that sort of swung the game in our favour," de Villiers admitted.

While Reddan has a fastish pass, he is worth an intercept try/headless chicken movement every other game. When Peter Stringer threw an intercept pass back in 2007, we hardly ever saw him again in a green jersey.

*thrown by Eoin Reddan.

Sin é wrote:

RubyGuby wrote:I agree with you there Pete on the lack of physicality - The danger for Ireland in this match is that due to some injuries to key players it could be a very long afternoon. If SA break through early it could be a damaging defeat psychologically. With that said, If Celtic can beat Barcelona then Ireland if they rediscover their dog and fight can match SA and then anything can happen - Here's hoping for you guys, its a big ask but you fellas are always better when your backs are to the wall

Thats what happened the last time:

Interview with John de Villiers

There was no question of who was the better side a year later, in the opening Test match at the Aviva, when a Morne Steyn-inspired South Africa streaked into a 23-9 lead before a late Irish rally proved rousing but, ultimately, futile. "We scored one intercept try* (through Juan Smith) in 2010 and that sort of swung the game in our favour," de Villiers admitted.

While Reddan has a fastish pass, he is worth an intercept try/headless chicken movement every other game. When Peter Stringer threw an intercept pass back in 2007, we hardly ever saw him again in a green jersey.

*thrown by Eoin Reddan.

can't believe you would attack Reddan (a munster man/traitor) like that

Lol it's a sign of how good he has been that the only thing Sin é has to attack Reddan about is a nightmare game he had in 2010.

I swear this forum has become 10 times more enjoyable since I put Sin é on ignore.it's just a pity I still get to read his idiocy when people quote him.

you can put him on ignore. that would be class. it would end rubbish from himself Hersh and AWOP

Reddan's pass was not the problem. The problem was the move that was called off the lineout, it was too easy to read. It wouldn't have mattered how fast the pass was.

Anyway, they scored the try in the 16th minute. So it was hardly at a pivotal moment.

Mickado wrote:Reddan's pass was not the problem. The problem was the move that was called off the lineout, it was too easy to read. It wouldn't have mattered how fast the pass was.

Anyway, they scored the try in the 16th minute. So it was hardly at a pivotal moment.

Thank god someone said that!
I don't think that move is very effective either to be honest, no one ever makes yards on it . It does get quick ball at tail of lineout though I guess

He does this so much, warps moments to suit his arguements.
He put up the Wayne Smith thing about Sexton yesterday and then was torn to shreds cos it was a load of w@nk.

Where's that ignore button?

GoodinTightSpaces wrote:

Sin é wrote:

RubyGuby wrote:I agree with you there Pete on the lack of physicality - The danger for Ireland in this match is that due to some injuries to key players it could be a very long afternoon. If SA break through early it could be a damaging defeat psychologically. With that said, If Celtic can beat Barcelona then Ireland if they rediscover their dog and fight can match SA and then anything can happen - Here's hoping for you guys, its a big ask but you fellas are always better when your backs are to the wall

Thats what happened the last time:

Interview with John de Villiers

There was no question of who was the better side a year later, in the opening Test match at the Aviva, when a Morne Steyn-inspired South Africa streaked into a 23-9 lead before a late Irish rally proved rousing but, ultimately, futile. "We scored one intercept try* (through Juan Smith) in 2010 and that sort of swung the game in our favour," de Villiers admitted.

While Reddan has a fastish pass, he is worth an intercept try/headless chicken movement every other game. When Peter Stringer threw an intercept pass back in 2007, we hardly ever saw him again in a green jersey.

*thrown by Eoin Reddan.

can't believe you would attack Reddan (a munster man/traitor) like that

I find it frustrating that you get this cowpat about Sexton needs fastball - but he will get too much fast ball from Reddan at international level and he will spend all his time underneath a Springbok backrower (Reddan's pass predictable) and will then be unable to manage or control the game. Reddan won't be able to make breaks because he isn't physical enough - so then we are just left with his fast pass (which he probably won't get to make anyway because he will get turned over ball when trying to dig the ball out).

10, 15 minutes at the end is the max. he should be allowed.

I'd say the same about Peter Stringer who has a better pass and better managing the pack, digging out the ball and a better defender - his day is done.

We conceded against England the day we hammered them because of the same move. If Murray had thrown the same pass off the same move it would have been a try too.

Mickado wrote:Reddan's pass was not the problem. The problem was the move that was called off the lineout, it was too easy to read. It wouldn't have mattered how fast the pass was.

Anyway, they scored the try in the 16th minute. So it was hardly at a pivotal moment.

I never claimed that it was his fast pass. Sometimes he makes passes without thinking - i.e., he can be poor at protecting the ball.

The point about it being a pivotal moment in the match was made by Jean de Villiers, the South African captain.

Dear Santa, for Christmas I would like one Irish thread not to be ruined by the inane ramblings of Sin.

And a new Irish coach.

And a woman with rather massive breasts (although I am more of an ass man myself)

Yours sincerely,
All Irish 606v2 posters (except Sin)

Mickado wrote:We conceded against England the day we hammered them because of the same move. If Murray had thrown the same pass off the same move it would have been a try too.

I don't recall Murray throwing any intercept tries to date - he can keep the opposition guessing as to whether he is going to pass or mae a break.

Just found the ignore thing, this is deadly lads!

Sin é wrote:

GoodinTightSpaces wrote:

Sin é wrote:

RubyGuby wrote:I agree with you there Pete on the lack of physicality - The danger for Ireland in this match is that due to some injuries to key players it could be a very long afternoon. If SA break through early it could be a damaging defeat psychologically. With that said, If Celtic can beat Barcelona then Ireland if they rediscover their dog and fight can match SA and then anything can happen - Here's hoping for you guys, its a big ask but you fellas are always better when your backs are to the wall

Thats what happened the last time:

Interview with John de Villiers

There was no question of who was the better side a year later, in the opening Test match at the Aviva, when a Morne Steyn-inspired South Africa streaked into a 23-9 lead before a late Irish rally proved rousing but, ultimately, futile. "We scored one intercept try* (through Juan Smith) in 2010 and that sort of swung the game in our favour," de Villiers admitted.

While Reddan has a fastish pass, he is worth an intercept try/headless chicken movement every other game. When Peter Stringer threw an intercept pass back in 2007, we hardly ever saw him again in a green jersey.

*thrown by Eoin Reddan.

can't believe you would attack Reddan (a munster man/traitor) like that

I find it frustrating that you get this cowpat about Sexton needs fastball - but he will get too much fast ball from Reddan at international level and he will spend all his time underneath a Springbok backrower (Reddan's pass predictable) and will then be unable to manage or control the game. Reddan won't be able to make breaks because he isn't physical enough - so then we are just left with his fast pass (which he probably won't get to make anyway because he will get turned over ball when trying to dig the ball out).

10, 15 minutes at the end is the max. he should be allowed.

I'd say the same about Peter Stringer who has a better pass and better managing the pack, digging out the ball and a better defender - his day is done.

predictable as in he passes the ball backwards????

What do you want him to do vary it up a bit. a few basketball passes, under arm passes. the springboks would never see that coming

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:Just found the ignore thing, this is deadly lads!

where is this cool button

Hookie, practising your cyber bullying? Try and get other posters to gang up and isolate, get banned/abuse a poster who doesn't share their opinion?

That was a horrible day for Reddan and a lot of other players. Don't think anyone played well at all.

Has Thornely announced the team yet lads?

GoodinTightSpaces wrote:

Sin é wrote:

GoodinTightSpaces wrote:

Sin é wrote:

RubyGuby wrote:I agree with you there Pete on the lack of physicality - The danger for Ireland in this match is that due to some injuries to key players it could be a very long afternoon. If SA break through early it could be a damaging defeat psychologically. With that said, If Celtic can beat Barcelona then Ireland if they rediscover their dog and fight can match SA and then anything can happen - Here's hoping for you guys, its a big ask but you fellas are always better when your backs are to the wall

Thats what happened the last time:

Interview with John de Villiers

There was no question of who was the better side a year later, in the opening Test match at the Aviva, when a Morne Steyn-inspired South Africa streaked into a 23-9 lead before a late Irish rally proved rousing but, ultimately, futile. "We scored one intercept try* (through Juan Smith) in 2010 and that sort of swung the game in our favour," de Villiers admitted.

While Reddan has a fastish pass, he is worth an intercept try/headless chicken movement every other game. When Peter Stringer threw an intercept pass back in 2007, we hardly ever saw him again in a green jersey.

*thrown by Eoin Reddan.

can't believe you would attack Reddan (a munster man/traitor) like that

I find it frustrating that you get this cowpat about Sexton needs fastball - but he will get too much fast ball from Reddan at international level and he will spend all his time underneath a Springbok backrower (Reddan's pass predictable) and will then be unable to manage or control the game. Reddan won't be able to make breaks because he isn't physical enough - so then we are just left with his fast pass (which he probably won't get to make anyway because he will get turned over ball when trying to dig the ball out).

10, 15 minutes at the end is the max. he should be allowed.

I'd say the same about Peter Stringer who has a better pass and better managing the pack, digging out the ball and a better defender - his day is done.

predictable as in he passes the ball backwards????

What do you want him to do vary it up a bit. a few basketball passes, under arm passes. the springboks would never see that coming

Predictable in about 99/100 cases he is going to pass (not run, go to ground or protect the ball).

As well as that he can get manhandled at scrumtime.

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:Biltong will you find it weird when the camera ineviatbly turns to Richard Strauss during the S.African anthem?

Nah, he made his decisions, the question is how will he feel about it.

Notch wrote:That was a horrible day for Reddan and a lot of other players. Don't think anyone played well at all.

Credit where credit is due - O'Gara made a huge impact when he came on. Turned the game around. 2 tries in about 10 minutes.

This is very last time I will respond to any of your drivel Sin. Grow up. I can't imagine anyone actually wants you here on this board. I'll be open and say I want you banned from here as you consistently ruin every thread you post on. How many times do people have to complain in an Irish thread about your trolling? How many times have people asked you to stop with your drivel and nonsense and yet you persist. Many Irish posters, and some of the comments are included in this thread, have openly stated that you are responsible for ruining debate on the national team. Of course we have to share the blame as we fed you.

You are a complete waste of space and I would love to implore everyone else to add you to the ignore list. To go further I wish a mod would do what their title suggests and moderate you and ban you from the boards. But people can make up their own minds. It's just a shame that 606v2 is growing as bad as 606 was back in day. Alot of us disagree with each other in here on Irish rugby and selections, but no one else ruins a thread quite like you. I really wish you would just listen to others and just go elsewhere.

GoodinTightSpaces wrote:

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:Just found the ignore thing, this is deadly lads!

where is this cool button

Click his name and it brings you to his page then hit the 'add to foe' button and you're sorted.

I can see he has posted but not what he has written. I imagine he is the same with me.
I can see him when he quotes someone else.

Hookisms and Hyperbole wrote:This is very last time I will respond to any of your drivel Sin. Grow up. I can't imagine anyone actually wants you here on this board. I'll be open and say I want you banned from here as you consistently ruin every thread you post on. How many times do people have to complain in an Irish thread about your trolling? How many times have people asked you to stop with your drivel and nonsense and yet you persist. Many Irish posters, and some of the comments are included in this thread, have openly stated that you are responsible for ruining debate on the national team. Of course we have to share the blame as we fed you.

You are a complete waste of space and I would love to implore everyone else to add you to the ignore list. To go further I wish a mod would do what their title suggests and moderate you and ban you from the boards. But people can make up their own minds. It's just a shame that 606v2 is growing as bad as 606 was back in day. Alot of us disagree with each other in here on Irish rugby and selections, but no one else ruins a thread quite like you. I really wish you would just listen to others and just go elsewhere.

Your not doing yourself any favours with that post. Maybe you should grow up and learn to accept that people might not always agree with your view of the world.

Reddan hasn't been playing particularly well so individually can't feel hard done by.

I actually think Murray has been playing ok at Munster and is good for his place. The only other guy really putting their hand up is Marshall.

My main concern is that the Heaslip-Murray- Sexton unit which is absolutely fundimental to playing some decent rugby has yet to function at international level.

You have a 9 who has a tendancy to slow things down and weigh up his options before getting the ball away (not always a bad thing) and a 10 who likes to play with his head up, run onto quick ball and play off the cuff. The two don't mix well and Murray needs to understand that his primary role is not to play like an auxilary flanker like he does at Munster but to get quick ball into the hands of his first reciever if there is an opportunity move the ball. The problem is though I think Kidney believes the role of a scrumhalf is to be an auxilary flanker.

Outside that you have a smallish 12 and 13 who both struggle to break the gainline against a set defence. That 9-13 axis has trouble written all over it.

Murray is the key because if he can get quick ball out to Sexton then he and Earls can hurt the boks with their pace and create opportunities for a very dangerous looking back 3. If he dithers at the breakdown then our midfield and backrow will be in for a tough day.

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:

GoodinTightSpaces wrote:

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:Just found the ignore thing, this is deadly lads!

where is this cool button

Click his name and it brings you to his page then hit the 'add to foe' button and you're sorted.

I can see he has posted but not what he has written. I imagine he is the same with me.
I can see him when he quotes someone else.

Sound man

Hookisms and Hyperbole wrote:This is very last time I will respond to any of your drivel Sin. Grow up. I can't imagine anyone actually wants you here on this board. I'll be open and say I want you banned from here as you consistently ruin every thread you post on. How many times do people have to complain in an Irish thread about your trolling? How many times have people asked you to stop with your drivel and nonsense and yet you persist. Many Irish posters, and some of the comments are included in this thread, have openly stated that you are responsible for ruining debate on the national team. Of course we have to share the blame as we fed you.

You are a complete waste of space and I would love to implore everyone else to add you to the ignore list. To go further I wish a mod would do what their title suggests and moderate you and ban you from the boards. But people can make up their own minds. It's just a shame that 606v2 is growing as bad as 606 was back in day. Alot of us disagree with each other in here on Irish rugby and selections, but no one else ruins a thread quite like you. I really wish you would just listen to others and just go elsewhere.

Don't agree with this at all. As far as I can tell, Siné never gets personal with posters. Yes he is dogmnatic and very one eyed at times but that is just him. You don't have to respond or even read his contributions if you don't want to.

Come on lads take a few deep breaths and calm down....

There's plenty of time for frustration...

Has the team been announced?

Have my tickets arrived?

Submachine wrote:

Hookisms and Hyperbole wrote:This is very last time I will respond to any of your drivel Sin. Grow up. I can't imagine anyone actually wants you here on this board. I'll be open and say I want you banned from here as you consistently ruin every thread you post on. How many times do people have to complain in an Irish thread about your trolling? How many times have people asked you to stop with your drivel and nonsense and yet you persist. Many Irish posters, and some of the comments are included in this thread, have openly stated that you are responsible for ruining debate on the national team. Of course we have to share the blame as we fed you.

You are a complete waste of space and I would love to implore everyone else to add you to the ignore list. To go further I wish a mod would do what their title suggests and moderate you and ban you from the boards. But people can make up their own minds. It's just a shame that 606v2 is growing as bad as 606 was back in day. Alot of us disagree with each other in here on Irish rugby and selections, but no one else ruins a thread quite like you. I really wish you would just listen to others and just go elsewhere.

Don't agree with this at all. As far as I can tell, Siné never gets personal with posters. Yes he is dogmnatic and very one eyed at times but that is just him. You don't have to respond or even read his contributions if you don't want to.

That's your opinion and that absolutely fine. I never said Sin got personal so I'm not sure where that statement is coming from. It is very difficult to ignore his ramblings as other people fall into the trap of replying and quoting him, so even though I have him on ignore, every time someone quotes him I end up with his drivel in the thread. Many posters have openly voiced their frustration with him for quite a while, with some posters asking in this thread how to ignore him. You might think he's fine. Maybe the majority of posters do. But myself and large constituency of posters do not. These boards are either for open and respectful debate, or they are for tolls winding people up, hijacking threads with petty agendas and ruining debate. The Irish threads point to the later.

I couldn't care less about who plays for Ireland and what province they come from. I want to be able to debate the merits of players on an individual basis. Increasingly you can't do that here. It's not about agreeing with me, or having a different point of view. I disagree with many Ulster posters like Notch, Rodders or Rory_Gallagher on many issues but I have only ever found it to be respectful, and when they post something complete different to mine it makes me think about my stance on a given issue. That is debate. What Sin does is troll, hijack, and obfuscate debate to the extent that some posters do not want to come in and debate their national team in 606v2. That is real shame.

Sin é wrote:

Hookisms and Hyperbole wrote:This is very last time I will respond to any of your drivel Sin. Grow up. I can't imagine anyone actually wants you here on this board. I'll be open and say I want you banned from here as you consistently ruin every thread you post on. How many times do people have to complain in an Irish thread about your trolling? How many times have people asked you to stop with your drivel and nonsense and yet you persist. Many Irish posters, and some of the comments are included in this thread, have openly stated that you are responsible for ruining debate on the national team. Of course we have to share the blame as we fed you.

You are a complete waste of space and I would love to implore everyone else to add you to the ignore list. To go further I wish a mod would do what their title suggests and moderate you and ban you from the boards. But people can make up their own minds. It's just a shame that 606v2 is growing as bad as 606 was back in day. Alot of us disagree with each other in here on Irish rugby and selections, but no one else ruins a thread quite like you. I really wish you would just listen to others and just go elsewhere.

Your not doing yourself any favours with that post. Maybe you should grow up and learn to accept that people might not always agree with your view of the world.

Sin E, I am not sure what you did to displease your fellow Irish posters so much, but my suggestion to you is to start asking yourself why.

I cannot beleive that everyone else is wrong and you are the only one right. So please consider your actions and responses, it doesn't help you build more anamosity against yourself.

Hookisms and Hyperbole wrote:

Submachine wrote:

Hookisms and Hyperbole wrote:This is very last time I will respond to any of your drivel Sin. Grow up. I can't imagine anyone actually wants you here on this board. I'll be open and say I want you banned from here as you consistently ruin every thread you post on. How many times do people have to complain in an Irish thread about your trolling? How many times have people asked you to stop with your drivel and nonsense and yet you persist. Many Irish posters, and some of the comments are included in this thread, have openly stated that you are responsible for ruining debate on the national team. Of course we have to share the blame as we fed you.

You are a complete waste of space and I would love to implore everyone else to add you to the ignore list. To go further I wish a mod would do what their title suggests and moderate you and ban you from the boards. But people can make up their own minds. It's just a shame that 606v2 is growing as bad as 606 was back in day. Alot of us disagree with each other in here on Irish rugby and selections, but no one else ruins a thread quite like you. I really wish you would just listen to others and just go elsewhere.

Don't agree with this at all. As far as I can tell, Siné never gets personal with posters. Yes he is dogmnatic and very one eyed at times but that is just him. You don't have to respond or even read his contributions if you don't want to.

That's your opinion and that absolutely fine. I never said Sin got personal so I'm not sure where that statement is coming from. It is very difficult to ignore his ramblings as other people fall into the trap of replying and quoting him, so even though I have him on ignore, every time someone quotes him I end up with his drivel in the thread. Many posters have openly voiced their frustration with him for quite a while, with some posters asking in this thread how to ignore him. You might think he's fine. Maybe the majority of posters do. But myself and large constituency of posters do not. These boards are either for open and respectful debate, or they are for tolls winding people up, hijacking threads with petty agendas and ruining debate. The Irish threads point to the later.

I mention this as this is possibly the only reason I would consider banning a contributor, or if he was being abusive. As far as I can see he is just being parochial and a bit of a stato. I actually think some of the more knowledgable posters here (I'm obviously not one) like to fence with him. It just feels like you're waving an imaginary yellow card in the air and asking the ref to send him off.

rodders wrote:Reddan hasn't been playing particularly well so individually can't feel hard done by.

I actually think Murray has been playing ok at Munster and is good for his place. The only other guy really putting their hand up is Marshall.

My main concern is that the Heaslip-Murray- Sexton unit which is absolutely fundimental to playing some decent rugby has yet to function at international level.

You have a 9 who has a tendancy to slow things down and weigh up his options before getting the ball away (not always a bad thing) and a 10 who likes to play with his head up, run onto quick ball and play off the cuff. The two don't mix well and Murray needs to understand that his primary role is not to play like an auxilary flanker like he does at Munster but to get quick ball into the hands of his first reciever if there is an opportunity move the ball. The problem is though I think Kidney believes the role of a scrumhalf is to be an auxilary flanker.

Outside that you have a smallish 12 and 13 who both struggle to break the gainline against a set defence. That 9-13 axis has trouble written all over it.

Murray is the key because if he can get quick ball out to Sexton then he and Earls can hurt the boks with their pace and create opportunities for a very dangerous looking back 3. If he dithers at the breakdown then our midfield and backrow will be in for a tough day.

I think Murray has been thoroughly decent this season. I think his absolutely dreadful performance in Racing probably has clouded some people's judgment if they haven't seen Munster that often this season. The whole 'use it or lose it' rule has certainly quickened up his distribution. My issue with him is that he doesn't seem like a 'natural' 9 at times. What I mean is you can almost see the wheels turning in his head in his decision making process. He could do with just being more instinctive in his play at times. For all Stringer's faults he was an instinctive 9. Marshall is as well, but also a loose cannon and I just don't see him as an international 9. Its a weak position for us, possibly as bad as prop at international level.

Completely baffled by the inclusion of McCarthy and Kilcoyne. I've seen Kilcoyne get munched in the scrums, whereas Court has been largely dominant. I don't disagree, I just can't make sense of it. I can't see the rationale. Same with Mike McCarthy. Where on earth did that come from?

Is the team announced??

Notch wrote:Completely baffled by the inclusion of McCarthy and Kilcoyne. I've seen Kilcoyne get munched in the scrums, whereas Court has been largely dominant. I don't disagree, I just can't make sense of it. I can't see the rationale. Same with Mike McCarthy. Where on earth did that come from?

I haven't seen enough of McCarthy to say whether I agree with that or not but Kilcoyne ahead of Court is a shocking decision with no basis in form,experience or ability.

Healy Strauss Ross
McCarthy Ryan
O'Mahony Heaslip Henry
Murray Sexton
D'Arcy Earls
Trimble Zebo Bowe

Bench; Cronin, Kilcoyne, Bent, O'Callaghan, Henderson, Reddan, O'Gara, McFadden

The rationale Kidney gives in McCarthy is in for the lineout. Fair enough.

The rationale for Zebo is much less reassuring; he reckons the three of them are too good to leave out, despite all three being specialist wingers.

Wouldn't mind if he at least picked a fullback on the bench...

News




Heaslip To Captain Ireland


8 November 2012, 12:50 pm

By Editor




Jamie Heaslip will captain the Ireland team against South Africa on Saturday

Jamie Heaslip will captain Ireland in the opening game of the 2012 Guinness Series against South Africa this Saturday.






The Leinster No.8 will be leading his country for the first time when he walks the team onto the Aviva Stadium pitch as part of a side that contains one new cap in the starting team and a further three uncapped players among the replacements.
Richardt Strauss will earn his first cap for Ireland at hooker in the front row alongside his provincial colleagues Cian Healy and Mike Ross. Mike McCarthy is selected in the second row alongside Donnacha Ryan, with Chris Henry selected to start at openside in the back row, with Peter O'Mahony selected at blindside.

In the backs, Simon Zebo will be earning his first start for Ireland at full back, in a back three that has plenty of experience in Andrew Trimble and Tommy Bowe, who will be earning his 50th international cap for Ireland since making his debut against the USA in 2004.

Jonathan Sexton and Conor Murray are selected as the halfbacks with Gordon D'Arcy and Keith Earls completing the starting lineup as the centre partnership.

Among the replacements, forwards David Kilcoyne, Michael Bent and Iain Henderson are all in line to make their international debuts should they be called into the game.

Ireland Team to play South Africa on Saturday, 10th November 2012 in the 2012 Guinness Series, Aviva Stadium, Kick off 17.30:

(Player/club/province/international caps)

15 - Simon Zebo (Cork Constitution/Munster/1)
14 - Tommy Bowe (Belfast Harlequins/Ulster/49)
13 - Keith Earls (Young Munster/Munster/32)
12 - Gordon D'Arcy (Lansdowne/Leinster/69)
11 - Andrew Trimble (Ballymena/Ulster/48)
10 - Jonathan Sexton (St.Mary's College/Leinster/32)
9 - Conor Murray (Garryowen/Munster/12)
1 - Cian Healy (Clontarf/Leinster/33)
2 - Richardt Strauss (Old Wesley/Leinster)*
3 - Mike Ross (Clontarf/Leinster/22)
4 - Donnacha Ryan (Shannon/Munster/21)
5 - Mike McCarthy (Buccaneers/Connacht/4)
6 - Peter O'Mahony (Cork Constitution/Munster/7)
7 - Chris Henry (Malone/Ulster/2)
8 - Jamie Heaslip (Naas/Leinster/50) Captain

Replacements:
16 - Sean Cronin (St. Mary's College/Leinster/21)
17 - David Kilcoyne (UL Bohemians/Munster)*
18 - Michael Bent (Leinster)*
19 - Donncha O'Callaghan (Cork Constitution/Munster/88)
20 - Iain Henderson (Queens University/Ulster)*
21 - Eoin Reddan (Lansdowne/Leinster/45)
22 - Ronan O'Gara (Cork Constitution/Munster/124)
23 - Fergus McFadden (Old Belvedere/Leinster/14)

Donnacha Ryan is dropped,that's a surprise but he has been stuck playing 6 a lot for Munster that must have cost him.

edit:won't take this down but just for the record I'm an idiot.

Its astounding thats there's no room for Tom Court and Dan Tuohy on the bench. I hope, therefore, both are available for our match against Zebre the week after.

asoreleftshoulder wrote:Donnacha Ryan is dropped,that's a surprise but he has been stuck playing 6 a lot for Munster that must have cost him.

Eh? He's in the team.

What a Frak shambles. Where's Touhy? Where's Court? Why is Earls at 13 and not Cave who friging plays there for the unbeaten Ulster. Really don't see the point anymore...

Still haven't seen squad but if McCarthy is in there it is well merited. He has been imense for Connacht over the last 3 seasons and never seems to have a bad game. Court being dropped is very harsh. I think he is probably the best scrumaging LH in the country and very mobile to boot. Marshall will get his oportunity at 9 and I expect him to stay there for quite a while.